TotalBiscuit talks about Overwatch's microtransactions and progression systems for 40ish mins - General

[QUOTE=ashxu;50457272]Yes let's just shut down all discussion about this. No one can question our Blizzard overlords. Stop being such a blind fanboy. [editline]5th June 2016[/editline] You can try other heroes by... trying other heroes. There's nothing stopping you from doing so. I'm pretty sure people want skins for characters they actually play. I doubt many people want skins for characters they don't lol.[/QUOTE] It's not anti-consumer, it pretty much ensures Blizzard will support Overwatch for a while since idiots will buy crates. A few thousand fools spending a bunch of money means everyone else doesn't have to worry about them forgetting about the game. Not that Blizzard does shit like that anyway, they've moved towards always-online but they aren't EA and they actually keep all of their games up and running, no matter how old.

It's not like OW is selling poorly though lol. This system isn't the end of the world but personally I believe it could have been handled better. There's also the very concerning trend of crate systems being very common now. It used to be a thing you only saw in pay to win f2p games but now it's in full priced games.

I think this is the 'best' case scenario for microtransactions in a video game, or at least the best we're going to get. In game cosmetics can be acquired via leveling up, and at the moment, it does not seem that there is a level cap in the game, which means a theoretically infinite number of them can be opened up. Blizzard offers an additional venue for grabbing those cosmetic boxes for cash by the load rather than through practicing and winning matches.

again though why not just sell the skins directly then instead of relying on a gambling system

[QUOTE=ashxu;50457407]again though why not just sell the skins directly then instead of relying on a gambling system[/QUOTE] This random crate gambling has been an ever-growing presence in the community of minors who spend their and their parent's money on it, all for a bunch of chances at getting ~rare~ skins. I feel sad for those who've dropped more on the game's crate system than the actual game by now. Not to mention that, hey, most of this doesn't technically count as gambling! It actually passes right under all current laws for it, which is why it's so controversial.

[QUOTE=ashxu;50457407]again though why not just sell the skins directly then instead of relying on a gambling system[/QUOTE] Because digital loot crates have been proven by other games to be a good investment of the devs time over a direct store.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50457473]Because digital loot crates have been proven by other games to be a good investment of the devs time over a direct store.[/QUOTE] Ethics with a system eerily similar to gambling though. Just because slots make a shittonne of money in Vegas doesn't mean it's an OK way to conduct a business. Gambling is banned everywhere else besides there and reservations for a reason. Buying crates is essentially a gamble on getting something you want.

[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;50457528]Ethics with a system eerily similar to gambling though. Just because slots make a shittonne of money in Vegas doesn't mean it's an OK way to conduct a business. Gambling is banned everywhere else besides there and reservations for a reason. Buying crates is essentially a gamble on getting something you want.[/QUOTE] Yeah I've heard a lot of mobile games and stuff criticized for capitalizing on people with "addictive personalities" with the random/gambling style of micro-transactions. I can definitely see the argument that there's a moral issue with a system based around somewhat exploiting a select amount of people like that. I don't know the statistics of their loot box purchases though, so that may not actually be true with Overwatch.

it isnt really a reason to critisize or hate the game, but lootboxes are cancerous in games. it doesnt matter if its all cosmetic, because all its doing is exploiting people with gambling issues, which there are a lot of, as well as whales. and blizzard knows this, they're doing it on purpose, just like valve and tripwire with kf2, and many other games. its a shameful business practice that people shouldn't support. doesnt mean you shouldnt play the game, but you shouldnt buy lootboxes, nor should you defend them. [editline]5th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ashxu;50457407]again though why not just sell the skins directly then instead of relying on a gambling system[/QUOTE] because it nets them more money. thats why. its why they dont let you directly buy skins in csgo. if they did, the economy would be dead. everyone would just buy a knife, or a nice skin, and that would be the end of it. instead, you have a bunch of crates you can get. each is cheap, and has an extremely small percent chance of getting you something good, so you buy a lot, hoping to get something good. it also taps into the 'just one more' mentality.

I think games which aren't subscription-based should ideally have a theoretical maximum amount of money that an individual should ever be expected to pay (buying all the content in a game, for example). How high that bar should be is up to debate, but it should be finite. Unfortunately a lot of devs seem hell-bent on making sure people will always have more crap to spend money on regardless of how much they've already spent.

[QUOTE=Aredbomb;50457975]I think games which aren't subscription-based should ideally have a theoretical maximum amount of money that an individual should ever be expected to pay (buying all the content in a game, for example). How high that bar should be is up to debate, but it should be finite. Unfortunately a lot of devs seem hell-bent on making sure people will always have more crap to spend money on regardless of how much they've already spent.[/QUOTE] But you don't have to spend any money Buying cosmetic items is always a choice

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50458020]But you don't have to spend any money Buying cosmetic items is always a choice[/QUOTE] thats true, but most people dont take in account that these systems (lootboxes) are meant to exploit gamblers and gambling tendencies.

[QUOTE=Gunzers6;50456683]Certain legendary skins do sorta affect the game. Mainly in the case of Hanzo, where his wolf skins have him say his ult quieter until the very end, which makes it more difficult to dodge compared to his non-legendary skins. That's the only exception that I can think of though.[/QUOTE] Every time an enemy does their ult, it pretty much drowns out every other sound for me, no matter what. Perhaps your settings are weird?

How did these loot boxes even become a big deal they are 10x better than most games, they even cap off the xp amount for levels at about 22 so it doesn't become a giant grind Opposed to the fucking crates I get every time I launch tf2 which cannot be opened without paying and only have 1 item instead of 4

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;50457350] Not that Blizzard does shit like that anyway, they've moved towards always-online but they aren't EA and they actually keep all of their games up and running, no matter how old.[/QUOTE] I still play Diablo 3, and apart from one paid expansion they have not asked for any money in the past 5 years and they still keep releasing updates with new items, tweaks, mechanics and a bunch of content regularly. The RMAH has been gone for years so its not like Blizz is making any decent money off D3, apart from sales which must have slowed down to a trickle by now. I really love them for all their faults.

please don't use this as an argument, but IIRC it so happens that if you're lone wolf hanzo (an ultimate skin) and you get your ultimate parried by genji and the genji doesn't have the lone wolf skin, the resulting ultimate (now parried) becomes completely invisible yeah, it's a bug [editline]5th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Vodkavia;50458307]Overwatch is pretty tame on the MTX, but people are wrong to say cosmetics in this game don't effect gameplay; because they do and a lot more than similar games I'd say. A lot of cosemetics, especially the higher end ones seriously or completely change the model, color scheme and even some of the audio cues of the hero they effect. A lot of heroes in the game have proportions or a sihoulette disintct enough to make confusion impossible; but some, especially the female ones don't. [img]https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/overwatch.gamepedia.com/thumb/8/8a/Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg/350px-Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg?version=6a0c526c476ad2ab475af60dc2cd83c5[/img] like as much as I love this skin, I have to ask what blizz was thinking.[/QUOTE] while these skins probably might add some level of confusion (but who isn't confused in the middle of a tense firefight?), i've played this game for awhile to remember a lot of the ultimate skins this game has, as well as memorize every line change. look farther than how the character looks, when you can, focus on the way they have to move around, or how their gun sounds when they're firing, or their voice clips.

[QUOTE=Butthurter;50459089]this whole shitfest reminds me of people quickly jumping on the hate wagon with killing floor 2 just because of microtransactions even though everyone should be criticizing the rate tripwire was releasing major updates instead (which was barely at all)[/QUOTE] I have KF2 and it's still fucking empty, the difference with this is that Overwatch is a fully fledged and finished game that they're adding post launch content to whilst KF2 is an early access title and people felt the microtransactions were taking development time from the actual game. Which is pretty understandable since the they've done bugger all to actually improve the game. Then of course there's that if you want the cosmetics in KF2 you gotta pay for them, whilst in Overwatch you can get them for free you just gotta play a bunch.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;50456590]Yeah there's absolutely no problem with some players having objectively better stuff than other players in a competitive game :speechless:[/QUOTE] What? I'm talking about the balance of cosmetics and if they're purchasable or not and how often you unlock them. And when I say 'done really bad' I mean having gameplay affecting items be purchasable.

[QUOTE=Hogie bear;50459153]What? I'm talking about the balance of cosmetics and if they're purchasable or not and how often you unlock them. And when I say 'done really bad' I mean having gameplay affecting items be purchasable.[/QUOTE] That was a kinda reply to both you and lord of boxes talking about progression systems , I'm super against progression systems in games like Overwatch because I don't like the idea of more experienced players having outright better stuff/ more options. Lord of Boxes was obviously talking about actual unlock systems rather than cosmetics, my bad for thinking you were too.

Personally I think there should be a way of earning loot boxes besides leveling up. A fixed amount of gold per match won/lost and then you can buy them maybe. What happens when I get to rank 40+, I'll see one loot box every week at the rate I play, which will just grow the higher rank I get

Though it still would be nice to have guaranteed gold gain, even if it's just a trickle.

[QUOTE=ironman17;50459288]Though it still would be nice to have guaranteed gold gain, even if it's just a trickle.[/QUOTE] Heroes of the Storm has daily goals which net you very small ammounts of gold. I think Overwatch could use the same. I think that the deal, for now, is that Blizz wants to add more cosmetics before adding another source of gold, so people don't unlock everything they want too quickly.

I would actually buy some lootboxes if they made them worth it. With no guarantee of getting skins (the only thing anybody wants) and the chance of getting duplicates, it feels too risky. Despite getting slammed for having the same system, Halo 5 does it a lot better. You're guaranteed to get the kind of stuff you want and you can't get duplicate permanent items.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;50459248]Xp per level caps at level 22.[/QUOTE] Doesn't the cap reset at rank 100 as well?

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;50458307]Overwatch is pretty tame on the MTX, but people are wrong to say cosmetics in this game don't effect gameplay; because they do and a lot more than similar games I'd say. A lot of cosemetics, especially the higher end ones seriously or completely change the model, color scheme and even some of the audio cues of the hero they effect. A lot of heroes in the game have proportions or a sihoulette disintct enough to make confusion impossible; but some, especially the female ones don't. [img]https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/overwatch.gamepedia.com/thumb/8/8a/Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg/350px-Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg?version=6a0c526c476ad2ab475af60dc2cd83c5[/img] like as much as I love this skin, I have to ask what blizz was thinking.[/QUOTE] He still fits the theme of cowboy, and has a similar silhoette, so you'll notice him pretty quickly.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50455888]Because the random factor attracts a crowd that likes this sort of gambling.[/QUOTE] And I think there's a legitimate argument to be made about the gambling expect specifically being a bad thing. [editline]5th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;50455908]The xp progression caps at like level 20 or so, I don't think it goes higher than 22K XP per level. Why would you buy a 60 dollar multiplayer only title if you know you won't have the time to play it regularly ? It isn't the type of game you can get around to and "complete" within six hours.[/QUOTE] You're coming off of this from the perspective of someone who knows from the start that they'll sink hundreds of hours into the game. That's not what everyone does.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;50458307]Overwatch is pretty tame on the MTX, but people are wrong to say cosmetics in this game don't effect gameplay; because they do and a lot more than similar games I'd say. A lot of cosemetics, especially the higher end ones seriously or completely change the model, color scheme and even some of the audio cues of the hero they effect. A lot of heroes in the game have proportions or a sihoulette disintct enough to make confusion impossible; but some, especially the female ones don't. [img]https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/overwatch.gamepedia.com/thumb/8/8a/Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg/350px-Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg?version=6a0c526c476ad2ab475af60dc2cd83c5[/img] like as much as I love this skin, I have to ask what blizz was thinking.[/QUOTE] its a reference to the shadow, a gunslinging detective: [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Shadow_Death_From_Nowhere.jpg[/IMG]

I pretty much share the general opinion on this. It's currently fine because it's cosmetic only. Those who absolutely want the shiny things can pay money if they so choose, and those who don't care or don't mind waiting can just play the game. I think the only thing I'm iffy about is that you have to buy crates still, whenever it would just be better to buy the skins you want outright. I'm sure the guy who really wants that awesome pirate skin for Torb would rather just pay $5 for the skin than pay $5 for 5 loot boxes in the hopes that one of them has that skin. If Blizzard ever does introduce microtransactions that affect actual gameplay, I'll be dropping the game faster than you can say the "Over" in Overwatch. [QUOTE=Vodkavia;50458307]Overwatch is pretty tame on the MTX, but people are wrong to say cosmetics in this game don't effect gameplay; because they do and a lot more than similar games I'd say. A lot of cosemetics, especially the higher end ones seriously or completely change the model, color scheme and even some of the audio cues of the hero they effect. A lot of heroes in the game have proportions or a sihoulette disintct enough to make confusion impossible; but some, especially the female ones don't. [img]https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/overwatch.gamepedia.com/thumb/8/8a/Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg/350px-Mccree_Skin_Vigilante.jpg?version=6a0c526c476ad2ab475af60dc2cd83c5[/img] like as much as I love this skin, I have to ask what blizz was thinking.[/QUOTE] While the model might be changed, I would assume the hitboxes would stay the same, or I would at least hope so. As for the audio cues, I can kind of agree. A good example of this is Hanzo. Everyone knows what his generic ultimate audio cue sounds like, but in his more premium skins, it almost sounds like he's whispering at first so it can be hard to tell that his ult is coming. However, with enough experience, it should become a non-issue with time. That, and ults are set to always announce themselves from far distances, so hearing an enemy audio cue regardless should provide you with enough insight that some sort of ult is about to be unleashed.

There should be a daily play/win reward

You do actually get a pretty substantial XP bonus for your first win of the day.