No PS4-PS2 Backwards Compatibility? 15 Bucks To Repurchase PS2 Games.. - General

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49260429]Its a competitive market. Honestly, imagine having to have 3 playstations set up to have instant access to your playstation collection.[/QUOTE] You mean that thing I already do? I still have the PS1 and PS3, I just need a PS2 and 4. [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Demache;49262556]Pretty much. PS2 emulation is way better than it was years ago, but these wacky quirks like this still have me falling back to a softmodded PS2 with component cables and an HDD. The nice thing about playing on the actual hardware is that it mostly "just works". And since its component, its not blurry, just low res. Big difference.[/QUOTE] The biggest issue is wonky shit developers did. For instance, the Ace Combat games run like ass and look like as with glitches and everything because of what the ACES team did.

I'm just straight up not going to play the games at that point.

I think this is just taking the original source code, make it work on the console, fix framerate issues that might occur when doing 60 fps, fix issues when scaling to HD, add some features like trophies and other system integration things, etc. I would imagine this is what xbox is doing as well were the disc serves as evidence that you already bought the game. I'm assuming this is how it's done because it's the best and most efficient way to do it. So if this is true this backwards compatibility term is a little misleading because it's not really that. Nor is it an emulator (they never used that term though) it's pretty much just porting.

[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;49263902]I think this is just taking the original source code, make it work on the console, fix framerate issues that might occur when doing 60 fps, fix issues when scaling to HD, add some features like trophies and other system integration things, etc. I would imagine this is what xbox is doing as well were the disc serves as evidence that you already bought the game. I'm assuming this is how it's done because it's the best and most efficient way to do it. So if this is true this backwards compatibility term is a little misleading because it's not really that. Nor is it an emulator (they never used that term though) it's pretty much just porting.[/QUOTE] Is that worth $15 then? I'm not suggesting you're saying that, but that's the first thing that comes to my mind. I see it as a cash grab.

xbox bc implementation > ps4 bc implementation liek what the fuck surely they can make it so that you can use your existing discs in the ps4? i mean if this was the original xbox it'd be more understandable cause that shit was discontinued a decade ago, but the ps2 was discontinued what, only 2-4 years ago, physical copies for common games shouldn't be hard to find... also, why can't the ps4 get ps3 BC? is the cell ps3 processor going to make that impossible or something

I really don't mind Sony selling Ps2 games on the digital store (these prices are a bit to high imo). But someone who bought these ps2 games already on ps3 should be able to transfer those to ps4. Someone who owns the disc should be able to play it with the disc (or at least give a big discount). Sony would be so fucking loved if they went that route.. "This is for the players" Right?

[QUOTE=343N;49263923]xbox bc implementation > ps4 bc implementation liek what the fuck surely they can make it so that you can use your existing discs in the ps4? i mean if this was the original xbox it'd be more understandable cause that shit was discontinued a decade ago, but the ps2 was discontinued what, only 2-4 years ago, physical copies for common games shouldn't be hard to find... also, why can't the ps4 get ps3 BC? is the cell ps3 processor going to make that impossible or something[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that Microsoft has some of the greatest software engineers in the world, and it still wasn't easy for them.

Here's hoping they toss over games like armored core last raven

Kind of ridiculous that people expect Sony to spend loads of time and money developing a fully working PS2 emulator and then for them to play their disks for free.

[QUOTE=Daemon White;49262436]PCSX2 goes up to 6X :smug:[/QUOTE] And I can use my goddamn existing discs on PCSX2. [QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;49264319]Kind of ridiculous that people expect Sony to spend loads of time and money developing a fully working PS2 emulator and then for them to play their disks for free.[/QUOTE] Did you miss the part where Microsoft did exactly that except with a console that was a generation newer and harder to emulate? If one company did it with a much more complex console, then why can't the other, besides the fact that they're winning and think they can do what they want?

[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;49264319]Kind of ridiculous that people expect Sony to spend loads of time and money developing a fully working PS2 emulator and then for them to play their disks for free.[/QUOTE] People need to start giving incentives for doing things that are inconvenient. While I'm not advocating piracy, it still totally exists, and so do used games/consoles that earn Sony nothing. If they want to make some profit, so be it, but $15 is too much - especially for people that have been loyal customers since the PS2 with a disc that still functions fine.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49263907]Is that worth $15 then? I'm not suggesting you're saying that, but that's the first thing that comes to my mind. I see it as a cash grab.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's worth it either but it seems like a lot of people were expecting this to be an emulation of some sort that would use the content on your ps2 or 360 disc. It's just porting, not backwards compatibility. But to be fair there's been games on steam recently that has done this as well and I haven't seen anyone commenting on that. I own a legal copy of age of empires 2 but I re-bought it on steam. It is kinda unfair when I think about it.

[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;49264676]I don't think it's worth it either but it seems like a lot of people were expecting this to be an emulation of some sort that would use the content on your ps2 or 360 disc. It's just porting, not backwards compatibility. But to be fair there's been games on steam recently that has done this as well and I haven't seen anyone commenting on that. I own a legal copy of age of empires 2 but I re-bought it on steam. It is kinda unfair when I think about it.[/QUOTE] Ports get an unfair rep for being awful when in reality ports can be freaking awesome. Source ports for DOOM and Quake are the absolute best ways to enjoy them, and I wish I had a fully-featured port of the original Tomb Raider that didn't run in DOSBox.

Why is everyone complaining about spending 15$ on PS2 games? That's how much they go for brand new right now or actually a bit more. Source: Persona 3 FES is 20$ CAD brand new.

That's not what we're complaining about though. We're complaining about the fact that you need to buy games the you already own again...

[QUOTE=kirederf7;49265213]That's not what we're complaining about though. We're complaining about the fact that you need to buy games the you already own again...[/QUOTE] Then play on a PS2.

[QUOTE=Bioking;49262548]theres uh, the 1.5 and 2.5 hd collections on ps3 unless you dont have a ps3 in which case they said they might bring to to ps4 but only after kh3 anyways my problem with pcsx2 is when i tried to emulate yakuza 1&2 and .hack//gu they had bad rendering bugs in hardware mode, and cpu rendering ran awful.[/QUOTE] Yeah unfortunately both my ps2 and ps3 wer robbed whilst living in Brooklyn. And my current girlfriend has never played Kingdom Hearts and I really want her to get into them! I did See the Kingdom Hearts remix for ps4 I just need the first game!

If the games were five bucks each, you know, that would be pretty awesome. I don't know if any of you think so too. Some PlayStation 2 are very difficult to obtain. And if those games were five bucks or less, I might think this PS4 emulation shit would be working pretty well. For the most part anyway.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;49261104]It's actually pretty well polished right now. Not sure what games can cause emulation problems so you'd have to look that up yourself.[/QUOTE] On my computer, Timesplitters Future Perfect would randomly look like this, have weird slowdown and some audio glitches. Tried messing around in settings to fix it and nothing changed. [t]http://i.j2.io/LCPB.png[/t] Still managed to finish the game though.

Ps2 games and a ps2 is still really cheap. Also emulating is a lot better for ps2 now.

[QUOTE=Xonax;49260274]He is right though, Sony was Pro-Consumer back in the 7th Gen, you could share accounts and download games from it, you could play online for free, and if you got an early model, you could just play your PS2 games on it without having to rebuy it. Now they are not.[/QUOTE] Yeah and in order to actually follow that pro-consumer stance they had to sell the PS3 at a loss on release despite the enormous price and had to constantly cut back on security for PSN because they weren't making enough money from selling the system alone, or from the few paid services they offered. I get where you're coming from but Sony needs to actually make money somehow and giving you free shit every ten minutes isn't going to earn them any funds to actually support the system that you like. [editline]a[/editline] Besides, Sony has [I]no obligation[/I] to give you free games because you already owned a previous version on a previous system from fifteen years ago. It's cool when they do it, but they're not obligated to and you're not entitled to receive anything from them. Steam has no obligation to give me a free copy of random games because I own non-steam box versions of these games, so why would Sony ?

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;49260347]Does anyone have any idea how hard it is to emulate the PS2?[/QUOTE] easy enough that all the games i want are already floating about fortunately i have a ps3 to play all the ps3 games so what do i need a ps4 for? bloodborne?

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;49269475]easy enough that all the games i want are already floating about fortunately i have a ps3 to play all the ps3 games so what do i need a ps4 for? bloodborne?[/QUOTE] You need the PS4 for the PS4 games that come out on it.

what i want to know is what other games are they planning on doing this for? the only game i care about on the list is twisted metal and 3 of the games on there are the same game (and after playing gta5 the others gtas are garbage tier anyway). If they were to bring back the original gauntlet i'd pay money for that because that game was great (the arcade version not the one afterwards where they turned it into random loot based trash).

[QUOTE=Xonax;49260274]I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that since the hardware is old they will have trouble making it so you can use your PS2 Discs on your PS4, and Nintendo actually had the same problem when it came to running GBA games on the 3DS (Yes I know it was download only but my point still stands) so it's not entirely out of the yard...same with very old PC games. But I will say this, charging people 15 bucks (20 Australian) to buy a game from the early 2000s is bullshit. I mean fucking PS1 games like Metal Gear and Silent Hill still go around for 15 AUD, and they are fucking years old. Either make them free, or make them incredibly cheap. Like 5 bucks. Also fuck you for making me re-purchase my PS3 games. Do what Microsoft did, insert, redownload, bam done. And it's more possible because it was just last gen, 3 years ago. Fuck you for making me have to pay for PS+....and fuck Sony for upping the PS+ 3 Month Subscription by an extra 8 bucks. I would love for my PS2 games to be shoved in and played like that, but you do have to consider the technical limitations, but it's not an exception for PS3 games. He is right though, Sony was Pro-Consumer back in the 7th Gen, you could share accounts and download games from it, you could play online for free, and if you got an early model, you could just play your PS2 games on it without having to rebuy it. Now they are not. Bunch of bullshit.[/QUOTE] Yeah man, when I go on Steam and get System Shock 2, or any of the old games they're all free! Sony are just a bunch of greedy assholes aren't they! If you're not willing to pay 15 bucks a long ass RPG maybe you didn't want it that bad? You're saying they should build their own in house emulator, and get all those games working, only to give them all away for free? What is a business?

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49269753]but that's a pretty uncertain proposition in the unlikely event that no good games come out for the foreseeable future, would it not be a great idea to have your console be able to play classic games from it's previous generations to keep the consumer happy and less likely to pawn it off for cash before the value gets too low? also the fact that it's only going to be for games that they deem worthy of being on the catalog is pretty lame, there goes fucking around in shovelware or genuinely good but unknown japanese imports[/QUOTE] If you buy a console with zero games that interest you simply on the possibility that good games may come out on it at some point then it's your fault for not showing better restraint with these 400 bucks you just spent.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49269882]well yeah it's stupid but tons of people buy consoles on launch anyway, it would be in sony's best interest to have native backwards compatability[/QUOTE] I fail to see how such an extensive service delivered for free would be in their best interest, there's no way the PR would outweigh the cost of actually doing that.

Sony did it... I guess :goodjob:

did we all collectively forget that this exact same business model was in place on the ps3? it was pretty naive to expect sony to just enable backwards compat with playstation 2 discs just out of good will. for a feature that was only ever industry standard on handheld consoles that already used extremely similar architectures everyone sure gets their panties in a twist when said feature isn't included in the new consoles. [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] don't get me wrong i don't think it's a particularly consumer friendly business model but every time there's even whispers of a new console not being completely 100% backwards compatible everyone flips their shit like this is a recent development. the first four "big" ninty consoles didn't have any backwards compatibility with eachother and the only reason the wii and wii u have any of it is because the architecture is practically identical between each iteration. the xbox has it _kind of_ but it needs to be enabled per game (and the performance is dodgy on the new consoles at best) and when sony tried it last time everyone booed them on stage because the ps3's launch price was five hundred and ninety nine u.s. dollars. i'd rather the man hours be put towards improving the future of games rather than focusing on the past.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49270444] the problem is that the ps3 ran ps1 games just fine, the ps4 should be able to run both ps1 and ps2 games fine by that metric also the wii ran gamecube games natively and iirc the wiiu can run wii games[/QUOTE] Actual native backwards compatibility that would have next to zero issues would require them to actually put a hardware PS2 onboard. The PS2 and PS4 are nothing at all alike and I doubt PS4 games would benefit at all to having the PS2 as a coprocessor. Emulation is not at all impossible obviously. But making a good emulator isn't something to scoff at, especially for a system like the PS2. Even with Sony having access to all the documentation, it would still require an entire team. Not to mention testing and documentation of compatibility. And that still means that its only going to optimized for more popular titles, as we have seen. The PSone is piss easy to emulate so of course the PS3 could. There probably isn't much of an interest in it on the PS4 though (or its planned for the future, who knows). The original Xbox had competent emulators for it back in 2003. You could even emulate them on the PS2 to a degree and that's WITHOUT the PSX coprocessor it used normally to run them natively. The Gamecube, Wii and WiiU are all PowerPC machines, with very little difference architecture-wise.