No PS4-PS2 Backwards Compatibility? 15 Bucks To Repurchase PS2 Games.. - General

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49270444] the problem is that the ps3 ran ps1 games just fine, the ps4 should be able to run both ps1 and ps2 games fine by that metric also the wii ran gamecube games natively and iirc the wiiu can run wii games[/QUOTE] i addressed the latter in my post. the wii runs gamecube games because the wii is to put it bluntly, an overclocked gamecube. the wii u is a bit more of a step up than the wii was to the gamecube but again it's the same architecture and mostly compatible hardware. it works because those consoles are designed from the ground up to be backwards compatible. the guys responsible for designing these nintendo consoles don't care as much about technical innovation as sony or ms do, so they can afford to design their consoles like that. the lack of ps1 backwards compat is a tad weird but bare in mind you can't just take an emulator for one platform and hit the "convert for new platform" button and it'll work. there's a lot of very specific hardware optimization going on in these emulators and the amount of people who are still keeping ps1 discs around are a very tiny minority. saying that the ps3 could run ps1 games so the ps4 could run ps2 games isn't a fair comparison, the ps1 came out in the primitive world of 3d graphics and by the time the ps2 came out those graphics evolved into so much more than they were before and now there's a ton more to emulate. it's a more complicated architecture that despite being one of if not the best selling console ever, we still don't have particularly fast or accurate ps2 emulation. i'm willing to bet that there's way more going on behind the scenes of these emulated ps2 games that sony's putting out than just "run emulator with this iso", there are almost certainly some game specific hacks that are being used to patch out code that doesn't translate well or rewriting bits of the ps2 code to native ps4 code to speed it up a little. there's so much work that needs to be put into emulating and as consoles become more and more advanced it becomes an increasingly daunting, expensive and performance-heavy problem to solve. it's certainly a cool feature when it happens.

[QUOTE=plunger435;49269830]Yeah man, when I go on Steam and get System Shock 2, or any of the old games they're all free! Sony are just a bunch of greedy assholes aren't they! If you're not willing to pay 15 bucks a long ass RPG maybe you didn't want it that bad? You're saying they should build their own in house emulator, and get all those games working, only to give them all away for free? What is a business?[/QUOTE] One, they already have an in house emulator. How do you think these games work? Two, no one's saying that they should be given out for free, just that you should be able to play with your disks that you already paid for. And three, Steam doesn't keep you from playing your disks on PC if you don't rebuy it.

[QUOTE=Jacen;49270628]One, they already have an in house emulator. How do you think these games work? Two, no one's saying that they should be given out for free, just that you should be able to play with your disks that you already paid for. And three, Steam doesn't keep you from playing your disks on PC if you don't rebuy it.[/QUOTE] Where's the bad reading?

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49270444]i don't see how native ps2 backwards compat would be a very costly thing to make, they have access to the hardware and software sources for the ps2 with no legal barriers, i imagine it wouldn't take long for them to make a good emulator for 1 hardware set[/QUOTE] Because emulating PS2 titles on a PS4 is not as easy as emulating PS1 titles on a PS2. It'd require changes in hardware, writing an entirely new emulation program and it'd be a nightmare to make it run to an acceptable level for all PS2 games on the catalog using only the native PS2 disc. Moreover, people are demanding that these changes and the incorporation of PS2 emulation be entirely free of charge (past the cost of actually getting the original PS2 games). So they're practically asking Sony to spend a ton of money developing something that would get them no benefit. [editline]8th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Jacen;49270628]One, they already have an in house emulator. How do you think these games work? Two, no one's saying that they should be given out for free, just that you should be able to play with your disks that you already paid for. And three, Steam doesn't keep you from playing your disks on PC if you don't rebuy it.[/QUOTE] But Sony has no obligation to provide support for games that you bought for a system that's literally ten years old, for which all support was officially stopped several years back as well. In the same idea, Steam who runs a game platform is not obligated to give you any games for free because you own a boxed copy of a game they sell on their own system.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49271023]Because emulating PS2 titles on a PS4 is not as easy as emulating PS1 titles on a PS2. It'd require changes in hardware, writing an entirely new emulation program and it'd be a nightmare to make it run to an acceptable level for all PS2 games on the catalog using only the native PS2 disc. Moreover, people are demanding that these changes and the incorporation of PS2 emulation be entirely free of charge (past the cost of actually getting the original PS2 games). So they're practically asking Sony to spend a ton of money developing something that would get them no benefit. But Sony has no obligation to provide support for games that you bought for a system that's literally ten years old, for which all support was officially stopped several years back as well. In the same idea, Steam who runs a game platform is not obligated to give you any games for free because you own a boxed copy of a game they sell on their own system.[/QUOTE] Unless Sony is completely inept, they could quite easily implement an emulator - people with no affiliation to Sony has done so through reverse engineering. Microsoft managed to make an Xbox 360 emulator on their Xbone - free of charge. Why are you being apologetic for Sony doing something that does not help you in any way as a consumer? No one can "demand" (well apart from stock holders) [I]anything[/I] from Sony, but consumers should work towards getting as much for their money as they can - because that's exactly what Sony is doing. Difference between Valve and Sony is that Sony originally sold those games, Valve didn't, and it'd be a nice sign of goodwill to let you play those games.

[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;49268509]On my computer, Timesplitters Future Perfect would randomly look like this, have weird slowdown and some audio glitches. Tried messing around in settings to fix it and nothing changed. [t]http://i.j2.io/LCPB.png[/t] Still managed to finish the game though.[/QUOTE] You got through the battle mech part of machine wars?

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;49271117]Difference between Valve and Sony is that Sony originally sold those games, Valve didn't, and it'd be a nice sign of goodwill to let you play those games.[/QUOTE] But Sony officially dropped support for the PS2 and its games years ago. They don't need to show signs of goodwill, they're a company that sells a service, not a charity.

[QUOTE=Joeyl10;49270413]did we all collectively forget that this exact same business model was in place on the ps3? it was pretty naive to expect sony to just enable backwards compat with playstation 2 discs just out of good will. for a feature that was only ever industry standard on handheld consoles that already used extremely similar architectures everyone sure gets their panties in a twist when said feature isn't included in the new consoles. [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] don't get me wrong i don't think it's a particularly consumer friendly business model but every time there's even whispers of a new console not being completely 100% backwards compatible everyone flips their shit like this is a recent development. the first four "big" ninty consoles didn't have any backwards compatibility with eachother and the only reason the wii and wii u have any of it is because the architecture is practically identical between each iteration. the xbox has it _kind of_ but it needs to be enabled per game (and the performance is dodgy on the new consoles at best) and when sony tried it last time everyone booed them on stage because the ps3's launch price was five hundred and ninety nine u.s. dollars. i'd rather the man hours be put towards improving the future of games rather than focusing on the past.[/QUOTE] People need to show restraint in not buying all this awful stuff from these people. People aren't willing to stick to their word and are willing to lap everything up. I can guarantee at least one of the naysayers in this thread will purchase one of these ported games, or complain about DLC while buying DLC, etc. It's a business because there's business in this shit.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49271023]But Sony has no obligation to provide support for games that you bought for a system that's literally ten years old, for which all support was officially stopped several years back as well. In the same idea, Steam who runs a game platform is not obligated to give you any games for free because you own a boxed copy of a game they sell on their own system.[/QUOTE] Obligated or not, it's pretty anti-consumer to make a working emulator for your system and then force people to re-buy the games they own. A better way to do it would be to sell the emulator itself as a product and keep the games on the store for people who don't have them already. And the comparison to Steam is quite ridiculous since playing old games on your PC isn't hindered at all by not owning them on Steam.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49271497]But Sony officially dropped support for the PS2 and its games years ago. They don't need to show signs of goodwill, they're a company that sells a service, not a charity.[/QUOTE] Sure. Just because they aren't a charity doesn't mean consumers can call them out on their shit. It isn't unfair to do so, it's the way it's meant to be, and I really don't get why you're complaining about it to defend a company that has (and shouldn't have) any interests in mind beyond its stockholders'.

The thing I don't like about console gamers (and Steam to an extent) is that they're unwilling to compete for their customers when it comes to certain things. Game developers can be lumped into this too, because they're basically trying to see how much they can get away with in terms of DLC and what not, but it all comes down to the fact that despite people's issues with how the game industry is changing, people eat it up. People still go out and vote with their wallets in spite of their mouths. I'm not going to be a PC zealot, but I often encourage friends to grab a PC and ditch consoles for the sheer fact that it seems like console gamers put up with a lot of extra crap that I never see on the PC. Despite things like modding and configuration that I absolutely love, they're generally not aware of the Steam sales, they're forced to rebuy games for the next generation, they have to pay to use their own internet to play with friends (to an extent on some consoles), etc. But as a whole, we as a gaming community are still buying season passes, DLC, and all kinds of superfluous stuff that waters down gaming and encourages game companies to never released finished titles and it bothers me as someone who's seeing the infection voluntarily spread while seeing the infection as a source of complaint. All of this happens because of volunteers.

lolol looks like the xbone master rice wins again!

[QUOTE=AWarmMoose;49286416]lolol looks like the xbone master rice wins again![/QUOTE] Are you one of those guys who actually takes that shit seriously?

Where is the petition to get Sony to fix this [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Joeyl10;49270413]did we all collectively forget that this exact same business model was in place on the ps3? it was pretty naive to expect sony to just enable backwards compat with playstation 2 discs just out of good will. [/QUOTE] My issue is that I bought A BUNCH of classics on my PS3, so the Playstation account already owns the games (God Hand, Symphony of the Night, Medievil 1 and 2, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro etc.) and I already paid for them, but now I need to buy them AGAIN if I want to not have to switch my console and cables and crap to play the games, despite that my account has those games. Especially considering God Hand ran like piss on PS3, playing it on PS4 MAY be better but I'm not gonna pay another 20 bucks to find out