Fallout 4 critique: The abortion of RPG mechanics (Self posted, looking for suggestions)
313 replies, posted
My thoughts on fallout 4's new dialog system.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-5V5xrdZ3U[/media]
This is my first video and I would like some criticism and suggestions from you guys if possible.
First thing I noticed was that your recording for your microphone was too quiet, especially since you used other audio that was louder. I had to put my volume up quite a lot just to understand you clearly. Secondly, many of these criticisms are also very common. Perhaps you came to these conclusions yourself, but so did many other people. You were concise, though.
To call it an "abortion of RPG mechanics" is just blatantly false.
Also the only thing you focused on was the admittedly lacklustre elements of player speech options. While I agree that's an area of much needed improvement the game as a whole isn't an abortion.
Also your microphone is not great but other than that and the limited subject matter as well as clickbaitish title it's workable.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;49358500]First thing I noticed was that your recording for your microphone was too quiet[/QUOTE]
Thanks for noticing. I am editing it still and will make sure to try to fix the audio level differences. This video is sort of in beta stages.
[QUOTE=Samiam22;49358500]Secondly, many of these criticisms are also very common.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know. I guess I should see what others are doing next time. I made the video because I didn't see many big name reviewers mentioning my complaints.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;49358534]Thanks for noticing. I am editing it still and will make sure to try to fix the audio level differences. This video is sort of in beta stages.
I didn't know. I guess I should see what others are doing next time. I made the video because I didn't see many big name reviewers mentioning my complaints.[/QUOTE]
A lot of YouTube reviews talk about the abandonment of the traditional empty slate character as well as the limited dialogue choices
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49358527]To call it an "abortion of RPG mechanics" is just blatantly false.
[/QUOTE]
I see your point. The reason I kept the title like that is because I am planning on adding more to it. Part 2 will be about the leveling system and comparing it to the previous fallout games.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;49358559]I see your point. The reason I kept the title like that is because I am planning on adding more to it. Part 2 will be about the leveling system and comparing it to the previous fallout games.[/QUOTE]
it still would be pretty hard to argue it's an actual abortion of the mechanics of rpg's as that's a very, very vague thing mostly defined by player choice. The leveling system of Fo4 is certainly determined by player choice so to me it's inarguably an RPG system even if it has subjectively arguable quality.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49358569]it still would be pretty hard to argue it's an actual abortion of the mechanics of rpg's as that's a very, very vague thing mostly defined by player choice. The leveling system of Fo4 is certainly determined by player choice so to me it's inarguably an RPG system even if it has subjectively arguable quality.[/QUOTE]
I know this sounds silly but some of my best memories playing fallout is with a 1 in int and Charisma. Being a babbling retard is one of the things that was taken out of fallout 4 for example. And while this wasn't in the original FO games, the fact that survival mode was pretty much axed was another issue I had.
remove the background static and increase the sensitivity of your mic / amplify it
I would recommend Audicity as a great way to reduce background noise and boost audio.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49358569]it still would be pretty hard to argue it's an actual abortion of the mechanics of rpg's as that's a very, very vague thing mostly defined by player choice. The leveling system of Fo4 is certainly determined by player choice so to me it's inarguably an RPG system even if it has subjectively arguable quality.[/QUOTE]
I'd catagorize it as an abortion if for instance, you don't have the energy weapons skill anymore, yet can still find the bobblehead for it.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49359205]I'd catagorize it as an abortion if for instance, you don't have the energy weapons skill anymore, yet can still find the bobblehead for it.[/QUOTE]
Really?
Oh my God.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49359205]I'd catagorize it as an abortion if for instance, you don't have the energy weapons skill anymore, yet can still find the bobblehead for it.[/QUOTE]
So fucking what?
They changed what it does. It doesn't add a flat amount to your skill, it adds to your damage.
How exactly is that an abortion?
I get the game is a let down but seriously some of the stretching you'll do
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359400]So fucking what?
They changed what it does. It doesn't add a flat amount to your skill, it adds to your damage.
How exactly is that an abortion?
I get the game is a let down but seriously some of the stretching you'll do[/QUOTE]
So wait.
It doesn't add flat to your skills. It just adds flat to your damage.
[I]That's what the bobblehead would've done in the first place. Because get this, the energy skill determined accuracy and damage.[/I]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359400]So fucking what?
They changed what it does. It doesn't add a flat amount to your skill, it adds to your damage.
How exactly is that an abortion?
I get the game is a let down but seriously some of the stretching you'll do[/QUOTE]
Less Dialog options
Less Choices
Less stat management
It is less of an RPG in every way.
It literally aborted mechanics from previous games and mechanics that were meant to be in.
That is literally what an abortion is.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49359484]So wait.
It doesn't add flat to your skills. It just adds flat to your damage.
[I]That's what the bobblehead would've done in the first place. Because get this, the energy skill determined accuracy and damage.[/I][/QUOTE]
Oh sorry it adds critical damage.
Skills were fucking stupid as they applied to weapons. Full out stupid.
[editline]20th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Metist;49359557]Less Dialog options
Less Choices
Less stat management
It is less of an RPG in every way.
It literally aborted mechanics from previous games and mechanics that were meant to be in.
That is literally what an abortion is.[/QUOTE]
Shit I forgot I was playing a linear adventure- oh wait no you aren't talking about the same thing
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359651]Shit I forgot I was playing a linear adventure- oh wait no you aren't talking about the same thing[/QUOTE]
That's a bit of a hyperbole.
First off there are non linear games that aren't RPGs.
Second, it's true that the RPG mechanics have been dumbed down, removed or lessened. You can't just say that somehow doesn't matter because it isn't linear.
[QUOTE=Metist;49359669]That's a bit of a hyperbole.
First off there are non linear games that aren't RPGs.
Second, it's true that the RPG mechanics have been dumbed down, removed or lessened. You can't just say that somehow doesn't matter because it isn't linear.[/QUOTE]
The issue is I never said they weren't. People like you take any defence of the game from literally unfounded criticisms is pretending the game is flawless.
No. I don't think it's flawless. Yes it was dumbed down. To what degree is the discussion. To call my display of hyperbole what it is but to not admit your own display of hyperbole is the hypocrisy I'm arguing against.
[editline]20th December 2015[/editline]
I'm just saying if you really think it's NOT a RPG at all, then demonstrate to me how player choice is entirely absent or else your arguments are hyperbolic and unfounded.
I think fallout 4 is okay. It has problems. But to call it an abortion? Like what the fuck are you smoking
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359730]The issue is I never said they weren't. People like you take any defence of the game from literally unfounded criticisms is pretending the game is flawless.
No. I don't think it's flawless. Yes it was dumbed down. To what degree is the discussion. To call my display of hyperbole what it is but to not admit your own display of hyperbole is the hypocrisy I'm arguing against.[/QUOTE]
But it LITERALLY aborted RPG mechanics.
No one is saying the game is complete trash. They are saying it has less RPG mechanics than the other games and explaining how.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359400]
I get the game is a let down but seriously some of the stretching you'll do[/QUOTE]
Umm excuse me?
Where in both critically and financially do you see this game as a "let down"? Even the folks who super lean hard as hell on the things they don't like admit it's the best modern Fallout game right now.
Even if you disagree with me, you can't disagree it didn't make money, because last I checked it made the bank.
As for the RPG stuff, to be fair the old DnD like brownie point system is a super old system, and I'm sure it's just really hard to reinvent the wheel.
Wow who would a guessed taking the middle road about the game would get two different types of people telling me im wrong
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49359752]Umm excuse me?
Even the folks who super lean hard as hell on the things they don't like admit it's the best modern Fallout game right now. [/QUOTE]
When you say modern I hope you aren't including NV and 3 because there is no way it's better than NV.
[QUOTE=Metist;49359757]When you say modern I hope you aren't including NV and 3 because there is no way it's better than NV.[/QUOTE]
Says who? You? Why do you get to decide that for anyone other than yourself?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359760]Says who? You? Why do you get to decide that for anyone other than yourself?[/QUOTE]
I don't know what you like in a videogame but Fallout 4 having less quests, locations, voice options, no survival mode, worse dialog, worse writing, less dialog options, dumbed down level up system, ect compared to 3 and NV means something to me.
[QUOTE=Metist;49359783]I don't know what you like in a videogame but Fallout 4 having less quests, locations, voice options, no survival mode, worse dialog, worse writing, less dialog options, dumbed down level up system, ect compared to 3 and NV means something to me.[/QUOTE]
See, the thing is, you're acting like your opinion is fact.
Can you actually show me how there's "Less quests"? The only element of that that I buy, is that there's a vastly inflated amount of repeatable quests. There's still a huge variety of quests. I would know because I've played all 3 games in question here. It has better locations to me, but you're saying that's not true as if it were a fact. That's not a fact. I thought they were better locations by and large.
Survival mode was never going to be in it, it was always something obsidian cared about. The leveling system was not dumbed down in my opinion, it was improved because the system in BOTH F3 and NV was bad.
You're still acting like you're the arbiter of quality here. You are not.
[editline]20th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Metist;49359738]But it LITERALLY aborted RPG mechanics.
No one is saying the game is complete trash. They are saying it has less RPG mechanics than the other games and explaining how.[/QUOTE]
So I have to ask, do you consider FO3 and NV both to be "ABORTIONS" of the RPG genre as they also took their own steps to differ themselves from the so called "TRUE" rpg's of the 90s?
They are, by definition, LITERALLY, abortions by having removed ANY feature of RPG's previous.
These discussions always make me realize how lucky I am to actually enjoy things still.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359756]Wow who would a guessed taking the middle road about the game would get two different types of people telling me im wrong[/QUOTE]
Because right now there seems to be, to me at least, two groups.
Those that think this is a superior Fallout game that they're happy to get.
And those that think this is Fallout the FPS and nothing more.
I haven't played it myself since I'm waiting on the arrival of my credit card for a new computer, but as Fallout fan I lean to the happy side :v:.
[editline]20th December 2015[/editline]
Or rather I see from non-spoiler reviews, more than enough good to out weigh the bad/iffy.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359795]See, the thing is, you're acting like your opinion is fact.
[/QUOTE]
But is a fact. For example it is a fact that there are less dialog options.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359760]Says who? You? Why do you get to decide that for anyone other than yourself?[/QUOTE]
I can definantly say I didn't like skills in New Vegas.
Nothing more shitty than doing that one quest where you need 95 speech and you can only muster, even after doing all the drugs in the wastelands, 94 speech.
Credit to Beth for Speech checks being % chances so you have SOME chance of the diplomatic solution.
But yeah Both 3 and New Vegas had the problem of using an OLD skill system that needed change. I don't think Beth didn't know what that change was in time, so they just removed it for Fallout 4 at the moment.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49359795]See, the thing is, you're acting like your opinion is fact.[/quote]
Excuse me.
You just made an opinion as fact by saying the skills were dumb.
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
Like, you just called yourself out in less than two posts because you have this hate boner for the skills system because for some reason you think everyone is equally proficient in the use of weapons. Hell, the new 'perk' system basically does the same thing as skills but just gives you perks instead.
Its literally a dumbed down version of the skills system with several skills removed outright in their entirety.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49359923]I can definantly say I didn't like skills in New Vegas.
Nothing more shitty than doing that one quest where you need 95 speech and you can only muster, even after doing all the drugs in the wastelands, 94 speech.
Credit to Beth for Speech checks being % chances so you have SOME chance of the diplomatic solution.
But yeah Both 3 and New Vegas had the problem of using an OLD skill system that needed change. I don't think Beth didn't know what that change was in time, so they just removed it for Fallout 4 at the moment.[/QUOTE]
You don't need to pass every skill check
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