Fallout 4 critique: The abortion of RPG mechanics (Self posted, looking for suggestions)
313 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49378820][B]Honestly, I've seen people that haven't done any flaming or trolling and they've gotten banned for certain controversial topics.[/B] Infact the forum is 100% left wing, so there is already a circle jerk going on in the politics. Its just a bunch of people agreeing with one another and that doesn't leave much for debating, get's old very fast.[/QUOTE]
I haven't stuck around during debates long enough to see if this is the case but I can neither confirm nor deny.
And while facepunch (like most places on the internet that are populated with young'ns) does tend to sway to the left, they are by no means 100% left wing. SH will tell you that there's a whole lot of criticism towards PC culture/the refugee crisis/gun control/Obama's response to ISIS/Bernie's policies (these are just off the top of my head so mostly recent examples). And those first 3 are actually the [I]popular opinions[/I] on this forum
[editline]23rd December 2015[/editline]
In fact, I'd say there's quite a bit of right-wing circlejerking going on
just look at any thread that has anything to do with guns or SJWs
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;49377717]There is a pretty hard circle jerk scene here and when someone makes a pattern of disagreeing they do end up banned though. I dunno FP does deserve its reputation as a furry/anime dumping ground to an extent.[/QUOTE]
still better than letting people be psychotic cunts and not doing anything about it
not saying that 8 chan does that but
[editline]24th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49378820]Honestly, I've seen people that haven't done any flaming or trolling and they've gotten banned for certain controversial topics. Infact the forum is 100% left wing, so there is already a circle jerk going on in the politics. Its just a bunch of people agreeing with one another and that doesn't leave much for debating, get's old very fast.[/QUOTE]
I don't see that many being banned for opinions.
Many people may say thats why they were banned but generally when that happens it's because they're usually playing a game of ignoring what people say to the point where it really isn't ok
[editline]24th December 2015[/editline]
I've personally said some STUPID SHIT and gone against the rest of the people in some threads. Never been banned for that unless I was being a dick. Anecdotes don't count however.
Believe me I have seen it in a few threads the last couple of weeks, especially after the Paris attacks. I've even heard some people compare it to Maxof2SD bans, but I'm trying really hard not to say any names.
actually, I do remember being banned for the jessica slaugher shit on an alt during the th89 days, but he was kind of perma'd by garry after that :v:
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;49377860]Weren't people banned for mentioning anything about furries back in like 2005? I remember people used to shit on furries and anyone who came to defend them usually ended up banned and then everything was quiet until MLP came out and there was a new ban condition about that.[/QUOTE]
Mmmmh. Not really. There was an entire separate furry section (OIFY) at that time. :speedfap:
[editline]24th December 2015[/editline]
I do have to say that bronies are possibly the best thing that has ever happened to furry's public image.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49378854]Not even remotely close.[/QUOTE]
"This place is a hugbox"
Gets nothing but disagrees
"This place isn't a hugbox"
Gets a ton of agrees
I really hope I am not the only one who sees the irony here.
Well I guess we're arguing with ghosts lol
[QUOTE=Metist;49380132]"This place is a hugbox"
Gets nothing but disagrees
"This place isn't a hugbox"
Gets a ton of agrees
I really hope I am not the only one who sees the irony here.[/QUOTE]
[t]http://images.wisegeek.com/red-brick-wall.jpg[/t]
[editline]24th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;49379938]Mmmmh. Not really. There was an entire separate furry section (OIFY) at that time. :speedfap:
[editline]24th December 2015[/editline]
I do have to say that bronies are possibly the best thing that has ever happened to furry's public image.[/QUOTE]
people used to argue all the time about furries
bans only happened when it got too serious
wow that 8chan thread exploded and turned pretty good.
by good, i mean utter shitfest and it was to be somewhat expected, i guess.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49379135]
80% or 90%, it doesn't really matter. There is a circle jerk going on, the majority of the posters and the mods themselves... SH is a left wing forum.[/QUOTE]
Nope you're still wrong. The large majority of posts in SH doesn't even come close to being left wing.
[QUOTE=Metist;49380132]"This place is a hugbox"
Gets nothing but disagrees
"This place isn't a hugbox"
Gets a ton of agrees
I really hope I am not the only one who sees the irony here.[/QUOTE]
maybe because a large amount of people here agree that SH isn't 100% left wing?
I won't deny there isn't some hugboxing going on in places but (at least in SH and sometimes the video section) most of that isn't [I]liberal [/I]hugboxing.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49380972]Nope you're still wrong. The large majority of posts in SH doesn't even come close to being left wing.[/QUOTE]
When was the last time there was a republican or a libertarian on facepunch? Pretty much most agree here that there should be gun control, there should be open borders and its pretty unpopular to criticize religion when it comes to certain recent events.
Saying "religion of peace" most often gets people banned. Sounds like a hugbox to me.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49382937]When was the last time there was a republican or a libertarian on facepunch? Pretty much most agree here that there should be gun control, there should be open borders and its pretty unpopular to criticize religion when it comes to certain recent events.
Saying "religion of peace" most often gets people banned. Sounds like a hugbox to me.[/QUOTE]
have you even fucking been into SH? Any gun control thread is pretty split down the middle.
I mean, who the fuck is sgman91, joeskylnx, agentfazzex, ultra_bright and a whole fuck load of other posters if you really think there's nothing but lefties here?
I think you say "Hugbox" when you see an argument that doesn't contain people purely insulting each other.
i mean if you really think we're all left wing, why is it that death penalty arguments last 20 plus pages on average? because we're jacking each other off? No, we argue.
I still remember how pissed off SH was when a holocaust memorial for gypsies was put up.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49382937]When was the last time there was a republican or a libertarian on facepunch?[/QUOTE]
My views are what you'd likely consider libertarian centrist, maybe slightly right-leaning on some things. I just don't voice my opinions on the matter that often because strictly US-centric issues tend to confuse me, but I certainly don't feel oppressed, left out or silenced by the majority's views. I'm not a super rare bird in threads about European issues.
Also when it comes to war and stuff like that... lol, FP is far from left-wing consensus.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49382980]have you even fucking been into SH? Any gun control thread is pretty split down the middle.
I mean, who the fuck is sgman91, joeskylnx, agentfazzex, ultra_bright and a whole fuck load of other posters if you really think there's nothing but lefties here?[/quote]
There is also zukrichen, asteroidrules, zeke, starlight456, milkncookie, BDA, space marine, swe bonny, ownered, thisispain, etc. for the left wing.
most of those are even AGG btw.
[quote]I think you say "Hugbox" when you see an argument that doesn't contain people purely insulting each other.[/QUOTE]
oh, there is alot of insulting that goes on in SH and sometimes in the video section here. I remember a few weeks ago that alot of left wing posters were brigading rumbler when he posted a video about the state of the immigration. He was even banned a few times, too.
I'm not sure where this thread is going anymore.
[editline]24th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49383088]most of those are even AGG btw.[/QUOTE]
And the fuck does this have to do with anything?
Wasn't this about fallout 4 being an abortion as an RPG?
:snip:
[QUOTE=cdr248;49383333]I think this thread has been less about the quality of a game and more about just the concept of "opinions"[/QUOTE]
I shared my view on the game and why it's quality is bad when it comes to being an RPG. Dunno how it came to this. Still the game fails as an RPG .
[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;49383753]I shared my view on the game and why it's quality is bad when it comes to being an RPG. Dunno how it came to this.[/QUOTE]
ask spotenemyboat
It still saddens me that the only side quest that has a nice lenght and choices to do was cabot house. Every quest in oblivion for example was like it. Even the clear this dungeon quests had at least a nice twist or it would take a completely different route. Also the lack of characters and interesting personalities in the factions makes you not give a fuck about them. I woudn't give a fuck if BoS just dissapeared. In oblivion you could chat and get quests from many personalities. not the best example of a game but the damn side quests had a good variety and they were different and fun. You could enter a world drawn on a canvas or try to join the thief guild via competition!!!
Getting back to fallout 4. now I am that kind of person. I want games that don't serve everything at me instantly and I want a reason to do shit. I can't enjoy shooting shit for more than 40 hours for no reason. Why collect caps? I got everything! Why get better guns? I could kill shit easily on the hardest dificulty. Improving me town gives me no reason as I realised it was a waste of time and i got tired of boring ass clear this area quests .In witcher 3 i kept crafting more armor and swords not only to slash shit but to discover the rest of the huge world and get on with the story with a nice pace!! I understand that Abyss liked the game but what I get from him (no real reasons of why the games quiality is good) is that he simply likes shooting shit as the game was marketed. Of course I don't like his opinion and I countered it. Whats the point of saying yeah ok without at least sharing some arguements. I didn't mean to insult him some people like some games simple but in my case i stronly believe that a RPG game should have some depth on the story and immersion not emerging from the graphics or physics(which fallout 4 lacks but don't tell me about it!Bethesda just won't bother to care about competition) but from the story , the characters and the situations that take place and they give a motive to keep going and going. Maybe abyss you enjoy the concept of the apocalypse which is an amazing idea but I find the game poorly written and developed with no passion . Repetitive shit in a game means the devs are lazy imo.
I feel like this thread overstated my opinion of the game.
Gudman made a great post earlier in the thread that detailed all the specific problems and frankly, I agree with everything he said. What I also agree with is that even though the game contains less RPG elements it still manages to be enjoyable for me. I think what really sold me was the environment design. I really love how the game shows off locations, yes I thoroughly agree some(the institute) are straight up lacking but overall, a great and compelling set of places that just made me want to see more.
I do find the game boring once you've seen enough stuff, but I just can't get behind the idea it's a total step back.
It's a good game but not more than a 7.5 or so out of 10. It's just not as bad as some argued in my opinion.
You'd be overstating regardless by sticking to the notion that leveling by definition makes any game an RPG to begin with. Frankly you can progress just fine through having utterly abysmal stats simply by lucking onto a legendary weapon (preferably rapid fire) of the crippling or furious variety, and it turns out all those spiffy immersive dialog options boil down to agreedisagree takequestdon'ttakequest, and even in some of those cases by simply acknowledging a thing exists sets a quest flag with zero expositional work on your part, and there's really no reason to even bring up the child aspect.
It's going be interesting to see exactly how many quest mods this game ends up with going forward, because right now it doesn't look like many. I've talked to a couple people resposnible for some good Skyrim ones, and they aren't remotely interested in doing anything anymore because you literally have to break thematic progress to undertake something outside the presented factions, leaving you to either craft a completely generic quest or completely break from the established plot to get anything moving.
The game is very much a closed loop and I think the aftermarket cycle on this one is going to be much shorter than previous games, especially in regards to staple storytelling content.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49384022]I feel like this thread overstated my opinion of the game.
Gudman made a great post earlier in the thread that detailed all the specific problems and frankly, I agree with everything he said. What I also agree with is that even though the game contains less RPG elements it still manages to be enjoyable for me. I think what really sold me was the environment design. I really love how the game shows off locations, yes I thoroughly agree some(the institute) are straight up lacking but overall, a great and compelling set of places that just made me want to see more.
I do find the game boring once you've seen enough stuff, but I just can't get behind the idea it's a total step back.
It's a good game but not more than a 7.5 or so out of 10. It's just not as bad as some argued in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I'm of the same opinion, the reason I consider it a step back is that they removed the old system instead of tweaking it. As I laid out with more thought post, its not a bad game. But for someone like me who loves old school RPGs and got excited to see them come to modern era, this is a step to bring it further in line with modern RPGs that heavily segment you.
[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;49383893]It still saddens me that the only side quest that has a nice lenght and choices to do was cabot house. Every quest in oblivion for example was like it. Even the clear this dungeon quests had at least a nice twist or it would take a completely different route. Also the lack of characters and interesting personalities in the factions makes you not give a fuck about them. I woudn't give a fuck if BoS just dissapeared. In oblivion you could chat and get quests from many personalities. not the best example of a game but the damn side quests had a good variety and they were different and fun. You could enter a world drawn on a canvas or try to join the thief guild via competition!!!
Getting back to fallout 4. now I am that kind of person. I want games that don't serve everything at me instantly and I want a reason to do shit. I can't enjoy shooting shit for more than 40 hours for no reason. Why collect caps? I got everything! Why get better guns? I could kill shit easily on the hardest dificulty. Improving me town gives me no reason as I realised it was a waste of time and i got tired of boring ass clear this area quests .In witcher 3 i kept crafting more armor and swords not only to slash shit but to discover the rest of the huge world and get on with the story with a nice pace!! I understand that Abyss liked the game but what I get from him (no real reasons of why the games quiality is good) is that he simply likes shooting shit as the game was marketed. Of course I don't like his opinion and I countered it. Whats the point of saying yeah ok without at least sharing some arguements. I didn't mean to insult him some people like some games simple but in my case i stronly believe that a RPG game should have some depth on the story and immersion not emerging from the graphics or physics(which fallout 4 lacks but don't tell me about it!Bethesda just won't bother to care about competition) but from the story , the characters and the situations that take place and they give a motive to keep going and going. Maybe abyss you enjoy the concept of the apocalypse which is an amazing idea but I find the game poorly written and developed with no passion . Repetitive shit in a game means the devs are lazy imo.[/QUOTE]
I really am more disappointed by the lack of side-content and decent writing than the botched RPG systems.
Obviously the game does deserve criticisms towards its lacking depth but I've always been more forgiving towards those things simply because they can easily be improved through mods (ie. FCOM, FWE, CCO/PN, and SkyRe/Requiem/Ordinator/many others). But Fallout 4's biggest problem is that they [I]just fucked up the things that can't be fixed through mods[/I].
Dialogue can't be fixed, and neither can any of the vanilla quests. Even trying to fill the gap with quest mods is unlikely to satisfy me since it's unlikely that we'll see a large enough volume of [I]high-quality[/I] quest mods.
It's hard enough to find mods for the other games that feel as if they belong in the game and aren't cobbled together by an amateur, so it'll be nearly impossible to find stuff like that when you throw player voice acting into the mix.
[editline]24th December 2015[/editline]
The biggest thing that Fallout 4 has going for it is the fact that it's a bethbryo game, but it feels like that's it.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;49377084]So I come back after editing some audio and writing a new script and Jesus Christ.
Even 8chan is getting on in this shitstorm.
Also part 2 should be up in a few days. (That is if anyone actually cared past page 1)[/QUOTE]
Just call it "The stillborn of RPGs" and you should be fine.
imo the mechanics in fallout 4 are better for roleplaying, aside from the opening cinematic and the dialogue (the former not really being a mechanic).
Streamlining =/= dumbing down
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;49390669]imo the mechanics in fallout 4 are better for roleplaying, aside from the opening cinematic and the dialogue (the former not really being a mechanic).
Streamlining =/= dumbing down[/QUOTE]
Explain how less options make better role playing.
Especially when it comes to dialog.
[QUOTE=Metist;49390677]Explain how less options make better role playing.
Especially when it comes to dialog.[/QUOTE]
There aren't less choices. I said aside from the introduction and dialogue, not "especially".
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