Fallout 4 critique: The abortion of RPG mechanics (Self posted, looking for suggestions)
313 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49360149]Oh sorry I forgot to preface ever minor statement as "in my opinion".
To me, it was dumb. If broke a key element of the game. Gunplay. Removing the skills may be "dumbing down" but how is that a bad thing if I personally think it worked better to allow me a better way of playing many different specialization a?[/QUOTE]
Because you, personally, think you're right about it.
Also the gunplay would've sucked with the perk system to begin with. It wasn't the skill system's fault, it was the terrible as shit gunplay to begin with.
Why do people keep conflating the skills and the gunplay, the skills only modified damage and accuracy. It didn't change how lumpy and weird the gunplay was, that was fucking gamebyro.
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=gudman;49361968]Was it? Ballistics were dependent on perception, I'm not entirely sure if all ranged weapons were.
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
Yeah, all ranged weapons were related to Perception, I checked.[/QUOTE]
Actually, small arms was affected by agility.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49360489]FNV removed things that F2 and F1 had. True or false? [/QUOTE]
It may have, people have complained about the difference from 1/2 and 3. At least the differences between those games were relatively small considering the game jumped from isometric to a 1st person shooter so at least it is excused why they couldn't bring everything. Fallout is more new so obviously people are going to be talking about it more than the other but the fact is they have no excuse to dumb down and take out stuff now because the difference between NV and 4 aren't nearly as big and so the changes aren't nearly as excusable. Especially since going from NV to 4 killed far more RPG mechanics than going from a isometric game to a fps.
[QUOTE=gudman;49361968]Was it? Ballistics were dependent on perception, I'm not entirely sure if all ranged weapons were.
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
Yeah, all ranged weapons were related to Perception, I checked.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Swilly;49362365][editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
Actually, small arms was affected by agility.[/QUOTE]
Which game are we talking about here? In FO1, 2 and Tactics, the most important stat for ranged combat is Perception (at least in terms of accuracy), even though ranged weapon skills were derived from Agility instead. Small Guns (in FO3) and Guns (in FONV) are still derived from Agility, but in both cases Perception no longer has a significant impact on ranged combat.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49362365]Because you, personally, think you're right about it.
Also the gunplay would've sucked with the perk system to begin with. It wasn't the skill system's fault, it was the terrible as shit gunplay to begin with.
Why do people keep conflating the skills and the gunplay, the skills only modified damage and accuracy. It didn't change how lumpy and weird the gunplay was, that was fucking gamebyro.
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
Actually, small arms was affected by agility.[/QUOTE]
I think you're less informed than you want to believe. The clunky gunplay was skills related as evidenced by FO4 having good gunplay in the same engine
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49363418]I think you're less informed than you want to believe. The clunky gunplay was skills related as evidenced by FO4 having good gunplay in the same engine[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but that's so wrong and more than a little dumb, the gunplay is Fallout 4 is better because Bethesda decided to put some effort into making it not dogshit and it's silly to link the removal of skills to it.
If removing skills were the sole or even a major factor in improving 3/NV's gunplay, we'd see mods that set the damage and accuracy of each weapon to a flat value regardless of Guns/Energy Weapons menu and no one would be praising Fallout 4 for it's gunplay improvements because apparently that's all you need to match it.
[QUOTE=Glent;49362719]Which game are we talking about here? In FO1, 2 and Tactics, the most important stat for ranged combat is Perception (at least in terms of accuracy), even though ranged weapon skills were derived from Agility instead. Small Guns (in FO3) and Guns (in FONV) are still derived from Agility, but in both cases Perception no longer has a significant impact on ranged combat.[/QUOTE]
My fault then. I didn't know which game y'all were v taking about.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49363418]I think you're less informed than you want to believe. The clunky gunplay was skills related as evidenced by FO4 having good gunplay in the same engine[/QUOTE]
Or maybe because they decided to actually make decent animations that didn't awkwardly have "firing nodes" placed midway through an animation
Tying skill level to accuracy is as far as I know, how it was done in Fo3 and NV.
That's a dumb system(to me, can't forget you guys speak objectively but everything I say is purely an opinion lol)
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=cdr248;49363846]Or maybe because they decided to actually make decent animations that didn't awkwardly have "firing nodes" placed midway through an animation[/QUOTE]
So your spread and skills were TOTALLY disconnected then?
Okay but I remember it differently so is there anything else to add to that?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49363851]Tying skill level to accuracy is as far as I know, how it was done in Fo3 and NV.
That's a dumb system(to me, can't forget you guys speak objectively but everything I say is purely an opinion lol)
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
So your spread and skills were TOTALLY disconnected then?
Okay but I remember it differently so is there anything else to add to that?[/QUOTE]
No you're right, skills affected gun sway while all guns had a fixed spread.
However, your accuracy was typically nowhere near the levels of dogshit unless you were in the worst possible conditions. The problem with 3/NV's gunplay was the fact that the weapon animtions had weird delays that made them feel janky, combined with some enemies being bulletsponges as well as the lack of any response from the enemies being under fire.
It wasn't skills, it was just the way the weapons handled. I never said skills weren't tied to accuracy, but I was merely suggesting that they weren't the main problem.
imagine being so butthurt about peoples opinions in this thread you screencap every post you disapprove of, delete the ratings on the posts so you can't see that fp thinks they are dumb/agreeable/etc., and then create a 4chan /v/ rage thread (thread designed to make people angry about vidya gaems) using the screencapped posts as your OP image
[url]http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/320976718[/url]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dl1kECk.png[/IMG]
I think the only moments where accuracy is noticeable (outside having both limbs crippled) is in the scoped view.
[QUOTE=Wii60;49363907]imagine being so butthurt about peoples opinions in this thread you had to post them on 4chan's /v/ in a self-created rage thread
[url]http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/320976718[/url][/QUOTE]
And that's crossposted from an 8chan /v/ thread which started with Pvt. Martin's first post, then someone made that compiled screenshot.
So really it's imagine being so mad as to make OC screenshot compilation and crosspost it, like i'm far from a fan of Fallout 4 but come on.
[QUOTE=Wii60;49363907]imagine being so butthurt about peoples opinions in this thread you screencap every post you disapprove of and create a 4chan /v/ rage thread using the screencapped posts as your OP image
[url]http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/320976718[/url][/QUOTE]
Wooooooooooooooowwwwwww
That is fucking petty :v:
i mean srsly rpg wise fallout 4 is terribly half-cooked but dont be a butthurt bitch about it when people disagree
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49363934]Wooooooooooooooowwwwwww
That is fucking petty :v:[/QUOTE]
I love that I said something and made someone that butthurt.
i wish i said something that made someone butthurt
i've said more things that just made [I]myself [/I]butthurt than things that made others butthurt
[QUOTE=Wii60;49363957]i mean srsly rpg wise fallout 4 is terribly half-cooked but dont be a butthurt bitch about it when people disagree[/QUOTE]
I'll admit I haven't played it myself, and I'll admit I'm sure I'm gonna see some things I'm not gonna like in Fallout 4, but I'm a fan enough of the series to want to buy and enjoy it and get a new computer so I can play and enjoy it.
But for Christ's sake if you're gonna not like my opinion, just say you don't like it, don't screen cap a bunch of [b]MY[/b] posts so some strangers in a forum I don't care for can rip it apart in a unified agreement that I'm some stupid moron for still wanting to play and enjoy a game despite flaws.
It's funny reading other people call you a faggot for not having their group think
Laughable twats
My main problem with the perk system is the bonuses from perks and SPECIAL points feels very uninspired. Perks have the potential to infer cool unique bonuses, or gamechanging effects that cast under certain conditions, but what we got is largely just boring stat boosts. Flat increase to rad resist? Gee, how long did it take you to think of that one?
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49364035]I'll admit I haven't played it myself, and I'll admit I'm sure I'm gonna see some things I'm not gonna like in Fallout 4, but I'm a fan enough of the series to want to buy and enjoy it and get a new computer so I can play and enjoy it.
But for Christ's sake if you're gonna not like my opinion, just say you don't like it, don't screen cap a bunch of [b]MY[/b] posts so some strangers in a forum I don't care for can rip it apart in a unified agreement that I'm some stupid moron for still wanting to play and enjoy a game despite flaws.[/QUOTE]
How can you defend a game you haven't even played?
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49364225]How can you defend a game you haven't even played?[/QUOTE]
How can people really take someones opinion that fucking seriously
that's a better question.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364233]How can people really take someones opinion that fucking seriously
that's a better question.[/QUOTE]
That has nothing to do with what I said but sure, I agree.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364099]It's funny reading other people call you a faggot for not having their group think
Laughable twats[/QUOTE]
It's pretty much no worse than the facepunch vote system really. Dumb means "disagree" for example. Only on facepunch will you see people actively defending less content as a plus so I can see why everyone else is mad.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364287]It's pretty much no worse than the facepunch vote system really. Dumb means "disagree" for example. Only on facepunch will you see people actively defending less content as a plus so I can see why everyone else is mad.[/QUOTE]
Only? Really? This is the only site on the internet? We're a hivemind or something? We all feel that way?
No. No. No.
Try using what's between your ears and realizing that on this site alone, a great deal of people disagree about what it is in terms of quality. Use your brain and listen to people here who even argue, as I have, that the game is flawed and needs help but is better than what people like you say.
You're welcome to your opinion. The thing is pal, I am too. And going on to 4chan in an attempt to get more support to call me a faggot is nothing short of laughable.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364310]Only? Really? This is the only site on the internet? We're a hivemind or something? We all feel that way? [/QUOTE]
It's amazing how almost every post has to have a strawman in it.
No, i'm just saying that a vote system promotes a hivemind and there is no way to complain about 4chan or 8chan or 420 chan without being a hypocrite on that issue.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364310] And going on to 4chan in an attempt to get more support to call me a faggot is nothing short of laughable.[/QUOTE]
I don't even go onto 4chan. I go to different chans so it isn't me. I find it laughable that you would think it's me even though this thread literally has over 2k views where anyone of them could be a /v/irgin.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364334]It's amazing how almost every post has to have a strawman in it.
No, i'm just saying that a vote system promotes a hivemind and there is no way to complain about 4chan or 8chan or 420 chan without being a hypocrite on that issue.
I don't even go onto 4chan. I go to different chans so it isn't me. I find it laughable that you would think it's me even though this thread literally has over 2k views where anyone of them could be a /v/irgin.[/QUOTE]
You LITERALLY said "only on face punch"
[QUOTE]Only on facepunch will you see people actively defending less content as a plus so I can see why everyone else is mad.[/QUOTE]
Idc who did it. I'm fucking thrilled I got under some poor pricks skin that much
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364344]You LITERALLY said "only on face punch"
Idc who did it. I'm fucking thrilled I got under some poor pricks skin that much[/QUOTE]
Well I have never seen it personally on any other forum but I guess you are right that there are probably other forums out there where people are defending The Sims 4 having less content too.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364353]Well I have never seen it personally on any other forum but I guess you are right that there are probably other forums out there where people are defending The Sims 4 having less content too.[/QUOTE]
yeah sure pal
no one else on the internet besides facepunch enjoyed fallout 4 or any other game you arbitrarly, personally define to be an "ABORTION" of rpg's. Yep, only here folks.
Here that internet? Only on one website can you find people thinking fallout 4 is a good enough game to be worthy of playing.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364359]yeah sure pal
.[/QUOTE]
I just said you were probably right anon. Geez.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364359] "ABORTION" of rpg's.[/QUOTE]
How many times am I going to have to explain to you that you are misquoting.
It isn't an "abortion". But it aborts RPG mechanics. It's in the Title of the thread for christ sake. How have you not figured that out yet?
[QUOTE=Metist;49364378]I just said you were probably right anon. Geez.
How many times am I going to have to explain to you that you are misquoting.
It isn't an "abortion". But it aborts RPG mechanics. It's in the Title of the thread for christ sake. How have you not figured that out yet?[/QUOTE]
I have. It's just an arbitrary, and full out stupid metric to take.
Yes, it "Aborts" features. AGAIN, so did FNV and Fo3, games you enjoy, so apparently, you too, also enjoy games that are dumbing themselves down to an arbitrary level.
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