Fallout 4 critique: The abortion of RPG mechanics (Self posted, looking for suggestions)
313 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364888]That's you, and metist. Good job, you guys are the pinnacle of short sighted, self centered gamers.[/QUOTE]
Actually I am the exact opposite. I care for RPG fans and unlike you I don't want the genre to be dumbed so casuals can have be easier for them.
If you don't like RPGs why not find another genre then?
I don't like visual novels but I don't tell people to change it so it caters to me at the expense of visual novel fans.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364889]Nice buzzwords and strawman. Everytime someone posts flaws you get angry. Sorry people are criticizing a game getting worse and having less content.[/QUOTE]
What buzzwords? Seriously, bold the buzzwords.
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Metist;49364901]Actually I am the exact opposite. I care for RPG fans and unlike you I don't want the genre to be dumbed so casuals can have be easier for them.
If you don't like RPGs why not find another genre then?
I don't like visual novels but I don't tell people to change it so it caters to me at the expense of visual novel fans.[/QUOTE]
I love RPG's. Why do you get to say I don't based on ONE GAME THAT I LIKE?
How fucking presumptuous can you really be?
[QUOTE=Metist;49364758]I didn't realize liking more dialog options was a case of wearing "Nostalgia goggles".
Silly me, I guess missing battlefront 2's more than 4 maps also means I have the goggles on too tight.[/QUOTE]
If dialogue is your only critique then you may need to expand your argument a bit.
The dialogue wheel is garbage, I don't think anybody would defend it, but it's a very big game with a lot of moving parts and the dialogue wheel is only one point of discussion in a game riddled with pros and cons
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;49364907]If dialogue is your only critique then you may need to expand your argument a bit.
The dialogue wheel is garbage, I don't think anybody would defend it, but it's a very big game with a lot of moving parts and the dialogue wheel is only one point of discussion in a game riddled with pros and cons[/QUOTE]
apparently if you accept one bad thing with any other amount of good things you "HATE RPG's" full stop.
This is a fucking stupid argument due to the hyperbolic responses metist makes this conversation consist of.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364899]Do you have any concept of how discussions work or do you always just insist the other person isn't good enough to have their own opinions?[/QUOTE]
It is a discussion. You are just getting progressively mad that people continue to criticize the game.
All I have ever done is criticize the RPG mechanics. I never said the game was complete trash and yet somehow me criticizing the horrible treatment of the RPG mechanics is somehow such a sin that I am "not having a discussion".
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;49364907]The dialogue wheel is garbage, I don't think anybody would defend it, [/QUOTE]
Actually people have defended it in this very thread.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364901]Actually I am the exact opposite. I care for RPG fans and unlike you [b]I don't want the genre to be dumbed so casuals can have be easier for them.[/b]
If you don't like RPGs why not find another genre then?
[/QUOTE]
Newsflash, this isn't the 80s and 90s anymore, Gaming and RPGs are no longer for hardcore nerds in the school library in High School, gaming is now a huge industry and to make money back on these expensive games with expensive tech and writing and voice acting and every other thing like paying for employees, you need to appeal to a wider audience, and not a whole lot of people are going to care for old school DnD like RPG systems, How do we make an RPG system that appeals to the old school and the modern? I don't know, and I'm sure Beth doesn't really know either, but that's what it is.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364920]It is a discussion. You are just getting progressively mad that people continue to criticize the game.
All I have ever done is criticize the RPG mechanics. I never said the game was complete trash and yet somehow me criticizing the horrible treatment of the RPG mechanics is somehow such a sin that I am "not having a discussion".
Actually people have defended it in this very thread.[/QUOTE]
Where in the ever loving name of fuck have I said I liked the dialouge wheel? No where. No where. I don't like it. I went to great lengths to say I didn't like that element of it.
You're the one saying I "HATE RPG'S" because I like Fo4. How fucking ridiculous is your argument here
Bottom Line: You cannot bank modern expensive AAA games on a niche group anymore.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364911]apparently if you accept one bad thing with any other amount of good things you "HATE RPG's" full stop.
[/QUOTE]
One bad thing?
How is
Less dialog options
Less quests
Less stat management
Worse dialog options
less locations
One complaint?
The fact that you seem to get so offended by the fact that people criticize these things shows that you probably don't enjoy RPGs since character choice and management are so important to the genre. In fact if you watched the video you would know this was even brought up.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364871]I FUCKING LOVE IT
when you speak for me, when you tell me how I should, can and will feel. When you define what I like, what I should do, what I should say
OH wait sorry
I mean, I fucking hate it because all it shows is you can't ever see past your own perspective.
Have fun with that.[/QUOTE]
i do see past my own perspective mate but I don't give a flying fuck about yours since the game doesn't satisfy me. If you want to tell me why its a good RPG with arguements, then be my guest but spare me the cliché shit that people say when they love a shitty game to death please don't waste your time. We all love games but we accept their flaws. Your game's flaw is that it's labeled as an RPG but in fact all the RPG elements are not there. Only a bland wasteland where you can't change nothing as you walk through the hundrets of NPC spawn points to amaze you for your deathclaw encounter.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49364927]Bottom Line: You cannot bank modern expensive AAA games on a niche group anymore.[/QUOTE]
Sure you can. Just don't dumb it down and alienate the original audience.
Look at DOOM 4. Doom 1 and 2 were far from niche and yet even that game had to be dumbed down by bethesda with 2 weapon limit in multiplayer and slower move speed.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364888]Holy hell.
I specifically said I don't like that element of the game but no, you're going to be a child and take words out of context aren't you?
"HOW DARE ANYONE SAY ANYTHING I DON'T FULLY FUCKING AGREE WITH GAWD WHAT ABUNCH OF BABIES".
That's you, and metist. Good job, you guys are the pinnacle of short sighted, self centered gamers.[/QUOTE]
huh i don't remember defending it for 4 pages mate. Also if you don't like that element of the game how do you love RPGs? You might be talking about the casualised and simplified shit found in FPS games where you upgrade your shotgun to DO MORE DAMAGE
[QUOTE=Metist;49364889]Nice buzzwords and strawman. Everytime someone posts flaws you get angry. Sorry people are criticizing a game getting worse and having less content.[/QUOTE]
The point is that you're slamming Fallout 4 into the depths and not giving credit where credit is due. Yeah, Fallout 4 has a lot of flaws, that's just a fact. Am I disappointed by it? Yes. However, Bethesda games are typically a bit more than the sum of their parts and while I know it might not be the best made game, I'm sure that I'll fucking play the game for an embarrassing amount of time. The same thing happened with Skyrim where Bethesda dropped the ball on a lot of things, but I still played it and had fun with it.
Within Bethbryo's sphere of titles, Fallout 4 rests in a very strange position of being worse and better than previous games (including NV), but in terms of the bigger picture I'd say that Fallout 4 fits fine with many of the other games of this era.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364932]One bad thing?
How is
Less dialog options
Less quests
Less stat management
Worse dialog options
less locations
One complaint?
The fact that you seem to get so offended by the fact that people criticize these things shows that you probably don't enjoy RPGs since character choice and management are so important to the genre. In fact if you watched the video you would know this was even brought up.[/QUOTE]
Okay, so because you can't seem to understand you aren't some fucking "ARBITER OF RPG'S" I'll lay it out real, really fucking simple for you.
I enjoy the game because it gives me the capacity for character choice, personal player choice, and a vast expanse of gaming options.
Now while I have previously and repeatedly conceded that the dialouge is lacking, you don't care because you don't read.
Less quests is true, and yes FNV did better on that but that's not really that much to write home about when the quests in FO4 are still good.
There's MORE locations and higher quality locations in my eyes so I don't agree with that.
Even with that list of things, you know what? THE SUM OF IT'S PARTS IS GREATER THAN IT'S WHOLE.
I love RPG's or else I wouldn't fucking own and play so many of them but no, here you are, being a righteous dick telling me what I like, what I'm allowed to like, what you're okay with me liking.
I mean jesus titty fucking horse humping thundercunting christ, do you know how to be anymore condescending and subjective?
Every bethesda RPG since Morrowind has been less of an RPG than the game before it. How long does Bethesda think they can get away with calling their games RPGs?
[QUOTE=Sub-Zero;49364957]huh i don't remember defending it for 4 pages mate. Also if you don't like that element of the game how do you love RPGs? You might be talking about the casualised and simplified shit found in FPS games where you upgrade your shotgun to DO MORE DAMAGE[/QUOTE]
hahahahahah
I'm so fucking stoked people like you are so fucking annoyed by me, you NEED to imply, assume, and draw up conclusions about me based on that.
Fucking LOVE IT. I GROW MORE POWERFUL!
Look, if I like Fo4, I like TW3, I like Dragon Age Origins, Path of Eternity, HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME I ONLY LIKE CASUAL RPG's?
Fucking hell children.
[QUOTE=cdr248;49364959]The point is that you're slamming Fallout 4 into the depths and not giving credit where credit is due.[/QUOTE]
Because we are talking about it's RPG mechanics, not it's gun mechanics or it's graphics.
Sorry I am staying on topic.
As far as RPG mechanics go there is nothing to give it credit for since it's worse in every way.
[editline]21st December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364961]Okay, so because you can't seem to understand you aren't some fucking "ARBITER OF RPG'S" I'll lay it out real, really fucking simple for you.
I enjoy the game because it gives me the capacity for character choice, personal player choice, and a vast expanse of gaming options. [/QUOTE]
You can like the game all you want. But it's pretty objective at this point that the game is less of an RPG than any other fallout game.
Why does this anger you that people say this? It's true.
You can still like the game. Just know why RPG fans might not.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364963]Every bethesda RPG since Morrowind has been less of an RPG than the game before it. How long does Bethesda think they can get away with calling their games RPGs?[/QUOTE]
Don't even bother, most of the people in this thread are casuals that would eat that any AAA garbage that EA and Bethesda would shovel out and think its good. I guess people feel guilty that they preordered trash like Skyrim and FO4, so they need to get very emotional and defensive about it.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;49364977]Don't even bother, most of the people in this thread are casuals that would eat that any AAA garbage that EA and Bethesda would shovel out and think its good. I bet they preorder FO4 and Skyrim.[/QUOTE]
yeah we're all retards bowing down to the likes of you because your assumptions are so accurate
fuck I can't help but just laugh at you, not with you, at you.
god forbid I enjoy games.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364965]Look, if I like Fo4, I like TW3, I like Dragon Age Origins, HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME I ONLY LIKE CASUAL RPG's?
Fucking hell children.[/QUOTE]
You literally just posted examples of RPGs that were more casual and dumbed down compared to other games in the series.
This is amazing how blind you are.
Can you guys calm down a bit? Thanks!
[QUOTE=Metist;49364990]You literally just posted examples of RPGs that were more casual and dumbed down compared to other games in the series.
This is amazing how blind you are.[/QUOTE]
So because I like Path of Eternity over Baulders Gate I'm a casual faggot?
So because I like the original Dragon Age Origins I'm a casual?
Dear god, I'm glad I'm a casual then because that means I don't have to deal with the likes of you looking down on me for having a different enjoyment out of RPG's than you do.
What's a good RPG to you?
i mean the very fact you're so childish that you have to take a game out of the list to make your complaint about me accurate is just laughable.
[QUOTE=Metist;49364967]Because we are talking about it's RPG mechanics, not it's gun mechanics or it's graphics.
Sorry I am staying on topic.
[B]As far as RPG mechanics go there is nothing to give it credit for since it's worse in every way.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone refutes that Fallout 4 has less depth in it's character building/rpg mechanics, but it's definitely not an abortion considering [I]it's still there and has a significant focus on these rpg mechanics[/I], even if it's not in a way that you (or I) might agree with.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49365015]So because I like Path of Eternity over Baulders Gate I'm a casual faggot?
So because I like the original Dragon Age Origins I'm a casual?
Dear god, I'm glad I'm a casual then because that means I don't have to deal with the likes of you looking down on me for having a different enjoyment out of RPG's than you do.[/QUOTE]
I never said any of those games are shit. I just find it funny that you said you aren't casual but posted games that are all more casual just like fallout 4.
Again, like fallout 4 and casual RPGs if you want. Just know that RPG fans of the previous games might not like how they have been getting dumbed down.
You seem to be taking these criticisms of these games personally.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364961]Okay, so because you can't seem to understand you aren't some fucking "ARBITER OF RPG'S" I'll lay it out real, really fucking simple for you.
I enjoy the game because it gives me the capacity for character choice, personal player choice, and a vast expanse of gaming options.
Now while I have previously and repeatedly conceded that the dialouge is lacking, you don't care because you don't read.
Less quests is true, and yes FNV did better on that but that's not really that much to write home about when the quests in FO4 are still good.
There's MORE locations and higher quality locations in my eyes so I don't agree with that.
Even with that list of things, you know what? THE SUM OF IT'S PARTS IS GREATER THAN IT'S WHOLE.
I love RPG's or else I wouldn't fucking own and play so many of them but no, here you are, being a righteous dick telling me what I like, what I'm allowed to like, what you're okay with me liking.
I mean jesus titty fucking horse humping thundercunting christ, do you know how to be anymore condescending and subjective?[/QUOTE]
You see that we don't like games with no depth and lazy development. A game where I can't change anything in the world , that has only 2-3 good side quests and the rest is just mindless shooting with no purpose other than clear out that area is not a RPG for me . Do you accept that ? People didn't accept your opinion because you kept defending it for pages and pages and countering what they said. You seem to like simple games and also simple things in life . You just want people to say " I like this" or " I don't like this" without arguing . Thats the joy of being with people and talking. We actually explained why its not a good RPG and all you could simply do in page 1 was type : Hey I actually enjoy the game guys.
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;49364996]Can you guys calm down a bit? Thanks![/QUOTE]
aye
HumanAbyss, you might wanna just take a nap for a bit. Arguing on the internet does nothing but give people aneurysms and the like.
[QUOTE=cdr248;49365019]I don't think anyone refutes that Fallout 4 has less depth in it's character building/rpg mechanics, but it's definitely not an abortion considering [I]it's still there and has a significant focus on these rpg mechanics[/I], even if it's not in a way that you (or I) might agree with.[/QUOTE]
Again, it LITERALLY aborted some mechanics.
LITERALLY.
That is what the thread title means.
If you still like it go ahead. Why is everyone getting mad that people are explaining how this hurts the RPG part of the game though.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49364965]hahahahahah
I'm so fucking stoked people like you are so fucking annoyed by me, you NEED to imply, assume, and draw up conclusions about me based on that.
Fucking LOVE IT. I GROW MORE POWERFUL!
Look, if I like Fo4, I like TW3, I like Dragon Age Origins, Path of Eternity, HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME I ONLY LIKE CASUAL RPG's?
Fucking hell children.[/QUOTE]
A child seeks attention. As you are and will probably be for more than 2 pages. I will teach you something without fancy words. People can like things without busting balls for 4 pages with no real arguements other than : "I like it" .
I don't mind people liking casual games .I mind people who seek attention and try to act smarter than others. You are laughing and saying how we can't accept your opinion for 4 pages kid. I will be the adult here and I will go mind my business while people enjoy things that I don't , the question is CAN YOU??
[QUOTE=Metist;49365045]Again, it LITERALLY aborted some mechanics.
LITERALLY.
That is what the thread title means.
If you still like it go ahead. Why is everyone getting mad that people are explaining how this hurts the RPG part of the game though.[/QUOTE]
Only mechanics I can think of that it straight up threw out were stuff like repairing. This isn't like Bioshock where it actually did completely omit a large amount of things from the predecessor, Fallout 4 still does a lot to keep many of the features intact. Sure the dialogue choices are lesser in both number and purpose (skill checks and such), but it's not like it threw dialogue and speech checks out the window.
It's a lesser RPG that NV, but it's not an [I]abortion[/I].
[QUOTE=Metist;49364722]In RPG mechanics it is definitely 100%.
A sequel should have MORE content than the last games. Not more.[/QUOTE]
I disagree somewhat. Yeah, in general, you want the new game in the series to be better than the old one. But that shouldn't be treated like a checklist of new mechanics. You can improve the game by replacing one system with a better one, even though it wouldn't count as "more content than the last games".
I don't know if that's true in Fallout 4's case, though, haven't made my mind up about it yet.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.