Dear Publishers: Stop censoring your games, it's not helping (self Posted) - General

unrelated to the thread but what is with the increase in zings on posts that are pretty empty of anything zingy? are they ironic zings or is it just being used as a stronger way to agree or something?

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;49708612] Plenty of people dislike the Nazis, let's take out nazi imagery from Inglorious Basterds. I'm sure that will bring in new customers and won't have any negative impact on the original product. [/QUOTE] So basically every Wolfienstien game in Germany. [editline]9th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49708812]unrelated to the thread but what is with the increase in zings on posts that are pretty empty of anything zingy? are they ironic zings or is it just being used as a stronger way to agree or something?[/QUOTE] Consider ing Dumb means "I disagree" you are probably right. Basically it's a sign of having either a huge Ego or insecurity so everyone who agrees with you is amazing and witty While the people who disagree are mouth breathing retards.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;49708612] Plenty of people dislike the Nazis, let's take out nazi imagery from Inglorious Basterds. I'm sure that will bring in new customers and won't have any negative impact on the original product. Let's also add air horns and hitmarkers. Gotta get dat call of duty audience. [/QUOTE] Many, many games have censored the Nazi aspect of German forces during WW2 and no one except the super die-hard historical re-enactors gives a shit. Not to say I don't disagree with flyingman356's "we must restrict freedom of expression so everyone can enjoy freedom of expression equally" argument, this is just a particularly bad example to use, because it's been effectively "censored" for years with no one really caring. [editline]9th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;49708275]I don't like the sexualization of Street Fighter. It used to be a game I play with my family, but now I just feel awkward when I see pretty much any of the female cast, especially Laura and Mika. I feel that there could have been better characters used or different ways to represent them, and there are a lot of people who feel the same way. It's not a matter or sexism or censorship; it's just making the game not entirely disgusting.[/QUOTE] I think this is a little better argument than most in this thread but I'd say the lynchpin of it is you and/or your family. Why feel awkward? I've played games with gratuitous sex and violence on screen in front of family and friends and they are just like "haha wow those video games sure are crazy".

[QUOTE=Raidyr;49708920]Many, many games have censored the Nazi aspect of German forces during WW2 and no one except the super die-hard historical re-enactors gives a shit. Not to say I don't disagree with flyingman356's "we must restrict freedom of expression so everyone can enjoy freedom of expression equally" argument, this is just a particularly bad example to use, because it's been effectively "censored" for years with no one really caring.[/quote] This is ancedotal but I know Germans who specifically get the American version of the newest Wolfienstien games because they hate that they basically took out nazis in a game about Nazis.

[QUOTE=Metist;49708816]So basically every Wolfienstien game in Germany.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Raidyr;49708920]Many, many games have censored the Nazi aspect of German forces during WW2 and no one except the super die-hard historical re-enactors gives a shit. Not to say I don't disagree with flyingman356's "we must restrict freedom of expression so everyone can enjoy freedom of expression equally" argument, this is just a particularly bad example to use, because it's been effectively "censored" for years with no one really caring.[/QUOTE] You can apply that formula to many, many things. [quote]Plenty of people dislike stealth, complexity, and fun writing. Let's take that shit out from Thief. Also I heard killstreaks, hitmarkers, and Dark Knight Rises are all the rage nowadays. I'm sure that will bring in new customers and the game's content can only benefit from this.[/quote] [quote]Plenty of people dislike huge worlds, branching quests, and playing with their characters' skills in fun and bizarre ways. You know what The Elder Scrolls and Fallout could use less of? I'm sure that will bring in a vast array of customers, especially people who already played Borderlands and want to go back to a much different game they loved. It just works.[/quote] [quote]Hey, you know what people fucking [I]hate[/I]? Their old heroes, decent humor, and characters you don't want to fucking strangle. And heterosexuality. And guess what, the coolest and most handsome man in the world just bought himself the Devil May Cry license. And that man is me, Tameem Antoniades! Fuck you![/quote]

I wasn't saying it was ok for Wolfienstien to be censored like that. After all, Germany is a place you can literally get fined or even jailed for saying the wrong thing.

[QUOTE=Metist;49709107]I wasn't saying it was ok for Wolfienstien to be censored like that.[/QUOTE] I know, I was just pointing out that removing or altering content (whatever it might be) for the sake of mass appeal doesn't always make for a good product.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;49708920] I think this is a little better argument than most in this thread but I'd say the lynchpin of it is you and/or your family. Why feel awkward? I've played games with gratuitous sex and violence on screen in front of family and friends and they are just like "haha wow those video games sure are crazy".[/QUOTE] I just don't want to lock two characters out because of how they're represented. I feel that it was definitely the vocal minority who requested Mika, because you would have needed to follow the game fairly closely to have done that, and when you're trying to gather newcomers into the series, there's already a barrier when it comes to wrapping their heads around the game, let alone a cast of characters that leaves most people feeling awkward. I don't spend a lot of time on the internet, and a lot of my friends and family don't either. Trust me -- there are a lot more people wanting to get in the game than a vocal group on the internet suggests. As for the "gym" argument, not only do people dress more modestly in the gym than the female cast, but you're also not playing a video game. Regardless of your "video games as art" views, people still find it awkward. Your own views are not going to change that. All in all, people are more modest and "backwards" than your own views on the internet may lead you to think; arguing on the internet is not going to change that. I really wish there would be some modest costumes for the cast, especially if they're trying to draw as many people as they can into the series. I'm just trying to let you know how I (and many others) see things.

[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;49709374]a cast of characters that leaves most people feeling awkward. [/QUOTE] I highly doubt it makes "most people" feel this way since people haven't really complained for any of the other Street fighters. On top of that, how do you deal with characters like Zangief that have been around for years.

-snip

[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;49709374]I just don't want to lock two characters out because of how they're represented. I feel that it was definitely the vocal minority who requested Mika, because you would have needed to follow the game fairly closely to have done that, and when you're trying to gather newcomers into the series, there's already a barrier when it comes to wrapping their heads around the game, let alone a cast of characters that leaves most people feeling awkward. I don't spend a lot of time on the internet, and a lot of my friends and family don't either. Trust me -- there are a lot more people wanting to get in the game than a vocal group on the internet suggests. As for the "gym" argument, not only do people dress more modestly in the gym than the female cast, but you're also not playing a video game. Regardless of your "video games as art" views, people still find it awkward. Your own views are not going to change that. All in all, people are more modest and "backwards" than your own views on the internet may lead you to think; arguing on the internet is not going to change that. I really wish there would be some modest costumes for the cast, especially if they're trying to draw as many people as they can into the series. I'm just trying to let you know how I (and many others) see things.[/QUOTE] I find it very disappointing that there are people who still think like this with regards to sexuality. It's this kind of sex-negativity that limits the bodily-autonomy of many individuals and ensures the continuation of a culture that shames women for what they wear. I'm guessing you don't have the same apprehension for the Zangief character or the "Sexy Ryu" on the previous pages of the thread. What about people who cosplay as video game characters? Are they "disgusting" as well? I understand your point of view, but if the only discernible reason for holding back our culture and not allowing people to create and wear whatever they want is that you personally feel uncomfortable, I don't think that's a justifiable solution. There are people who feel uncomfortable about Harry Potter books because they practice witchcraft, should we ban those books because a select group of people aren't able to get into it? Should we remove gay characters from games like Mass Effect because homosexuality makes a select group of people uncomfortable? What about the gay people who are uncomfortable if there's NO homosexuality in the media they consume? As far as I'm concerned, people can be offended by just about anything (including things that directly oppose each other). If we were treat everybody equally and get rid of anything that made somebody, somewhere uncomfortable, there wouldn't be anything left.

It's weird that Street Fighter V, and the series in general, has so much explicit fanservice with character designs and costumes but an ass slap is controversial. Hell, the new, censored Cammy intro shows [i]more[/i] of her ass compared to the original judging by the video, and her alt costume is basically a jacket with no pants that might as well be pantyshots 24/7 due to the botched cloth physics (if that's not her leotard under there, but it's obviously meant to serve the same effect). Meanwhile Zangief has been fine since day one and never gotten an attempt to cover him up, and he's a human bear almost twice the size of most characters running around in wrestling briefs. Who repeatedly slams people [i]headfirst into the ground near his sometimes-bulging crotch area.[/i] Those excessively rallying against sex and violence in video games have in many cases turned over into selectively hypocritical idiots. And yet game publishers and companies worry more about sex complaints due to how finicky reception on that can be, than they do violence and gore because you only really get handfuls of people crying about gore anymore.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;49708969]This is ancedotal but I know Germans who specifically get the American version of the newest Wolfienstien games because they hate that they basically took out nazis in a game about Nazis.[/QUOTE] I was talking generally. I assume most people including myself would agree that Germany goes a little too far when it comes to restricting games. Wolfenstein is also the exception, most WW2 games don't use Nazi flags and the like. [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;49709233]I know, I was just pointing out that removing or altering content (whatever it might be) for the sake of mass appeal doesn't always make for a good product.[/QUOTE] Yeah this doesn't really work because you are generalizing parts of the game and putting it together in a group called "content". You're point was that alterations and removal of certain aspects of the game would actually hurt sales when that often isn't the case but of course it depends on exactly what piece of content you are referring to. I was specifically talking about your Nazi example. Obviously if a game comes out and has good writing and complexity and the next game comes out and has shit writing and is simplistic it won't be received well but that's generally not wrapped up in this fervor over censorship is it? [QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;49709374]let alone a cast of characters that leaves most people feeling awkward. [/QUOTE] I don't think most people feel awkward, and without proof I don't really believe there is a silent mob of people out there that really want to play Street Fighter but are holding back because of scandalous outfits that the women it in are wearing. I just think you, personally, have a problem with sexuality in a game. Not even really sexuality, even the mere suggestion of it. You literally want developers to cover up their video game women because it makes you personally feel disgusted.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;49709547] Those excessively rallying against sex and violence in video games have in many cases turned over into selectively hypocritical idiots. And yet game publishers and companies worry more about sex complaints due to how finicky reception on that can be, than they do violence and gore because you only really get handfuls of people crying about gore anymore.[/QUOTE] Well I mean look at the Hatred trailer thread. Soccer moms everywhere.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;49709579]Well I mean look at the Hatred trailer thread. Soccer moms everywhere.[/QUOTE] That's because the Hatred trailer managed to capture the last vestibule of violence in a video game that was actually shocking in 2015, when the actual game came out and people realized it wasn't actually worse than any other video game released nowadays the opposition to it basically just fizzled out. People are ultimately uncomfortable with things they've never seen before, whether it happens to be violence, sex, homosexuality or a person with a skin color they aren't used to seeing. They often try to come up with some justifiable reason for why they dislike something, but the reality is usually just that they don't like it because it makes them feel uncomfortable because they aren't used to seeing it. If you expose a person to the thing that makes them uncomfortable enough times, then eventually they stop being uncomfortable. It's just like how being around strangers makes you uncomfortable until you get to know them. It's a psychological defense mechanism that people pretend is based on some sort of reality because they don't like being wrong and they don't like having to change.

[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;49708275]I feel that there could have been better characters used or different ways to represent them, and there are a lot of people who feel the same way. It's not a matter or sexism or censorship; it's just making the game not entirely disgusting.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;49709374]I really wish there would be some modest costumes for the cast, especially if they're trying to draw as many people as they can into the series. I'm just trying to let you know how I (and many others) see things.[/QUOTE] I didn't think of SF as a game one would play with their strict parents or impressionable little brothers, but maybe it's just me. And if you find skimpy clothing and suggestive poses to be "entirely disgusting", it's probably a safe bet to avoid Japanese games altogether. Unless you're OK with removing the other unusual and exotic elements from other foreign games, turning something unique and different into bland washed-down sludge. Or doing the same to books, movies, paintings, and other forms of art.

[QUOTE=One Ear Ninja;49708275]I don't like the sexualization of Street Fighter. It used to be a game I play with my family, but now I just feel awkward when I see pretty much any of the female cast, especially Laura and Mika. I feel that there could have been better characters used or different ways to represent them, and there are a lot of people who feel the same way. It's not a matter or sexism or censorship; it's just making the game not entirely disgusting.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I feel the same. I mean, I feel [I]so[/I] awkward in the room when someone chooses Zangeif, and he's there with his rippling muscles and hairy shins. Like, I can do without this blatant sexualization, gosh. I mean, they stick a character out there wearing nothing but boots and underwear. It's pretty gross, they should censor that. Same with Seth, that guy was full on nude. And Gil. Honestly, Street Fighter is just a sexed up [I]gross piece ew[/I]

or how about the turk wrestler dude I mean he oils himself up I mean [I]eeww[/I]

[QUOTE=Pascall;49696005]the difference is, this is not a character who has autonomy. this character was created for a purpose. this character did not make the decision herself to dress as she does do what she does.[/QUOTE] What the fuck is this argument? You're saying that because the character is fictional and has no will of its own, it's bad to have her do sexual things? So essentially you're saying that it infringes on her freedom? I don't get your point, since when are we defending the rights of fictional characters that don't exist? What's the difference between Bayonetta doing sexy stuff in a video game and the creator filming herself cosplaying as her? The end result is the same. Why are women authorized to be sexy but somehow shouldn't sexualize characters they create?

Y'know I've wondered, where are the people rushing to the controversial choices of Paradox Interactive with the upcoming release of Hearts of Iron IV? Paradox is more or less forced to release a DLC to display "historical portraits" of people like Adolf Hitler and Heinz Guderian due to the current media laws in Germany. Quite literally, that is censorship of video games to the highest degree, as content is being carved out and delivered as a separate package outside of certain countries due to restrictive laws on the arts. And yet nobody bats an eye.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49711872]Y'know I've wondered, where are the people rushing to the controversial choices of Paradox Interactive with the upcoming release of Hearts of Iron IV? Paradox is more or less forced to release a DLC to display "historical portraits" of people like Adolf Hitler and Heinz Guderian due to the current media laws in Germany. Quite literally, that is censorship of video games to the highest degree, as content is being carved out and delivered as a separate package outside of certain countries due to restrictive laws on the arts. And yet nobody bats an eye.[/QUOTE] For me personally, it's because I have no interest in the game. However, that does sound pretty shitty. Though, if I were to guess, the issue might just not have been reported on as well as this. In fact, I haven't found a single article outlining this issue. Maybe I'm looking up the wrong terms?

[QUOTE=Blazedol;49712046]For me personally, it's because I have no interest in the game. However, that does sound pretty shitty. Though, if I were to guess, the issue might just not have been reported on as well as this. In fact, I haven't found a single article outlining this issue. Maybe I'm looking up the wrong terms?[/QUOTE] There's no articles about it because it has nothing to do with feminism or tumblr or the like, which sells like hotcakes on clickbait websites. I find the HoI4 issue to be far more politically and socially important than "oh they got rid of an ass slap"

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49711872]Y'know I've wondered, where are the people rushing to the controversial choices of Paradox Interactive with the upcoming release of Hearts of Iron IV? Paradox is more or less forced to release a DLC to display "historical portraits" of people like Adolf Hitler and Heinz Guderian due to the current media laws in Germany. Quite literally, that is censorship of video games to the highest degree, as content is being carved out and delivered as a separate package outside of certain countries due to restrictive laws on the arts. And yet nobody bats an eye.[/QUOTE] I even mentioned Germany's censorship of videogames in my video. I don't like it, but the difference is that I don't live in Germany and instead of it being a company, it's a government which doesn't care about what I, the consumer, thinks. If I lived in Germany you would probably see me be even more mad about that then I am here. Also, unlike feminism which recently started censoring games. German law has been censoring Nazi's for decades now.

[QUOTE=Flyingman356;49696061]"Something like "sexy" Ryu is a false equivalence because that's clearly not there to please a female audience. It's a male power fantasy, a man looking like that is what men fantasise about being rather than what women fantasise about fucking, that's the ideal male from a male perspective, not the ideal male from a female perspective. " -me in the same post you quoted reading is a good thing to do[/QUOTE] I'm just gonna jump in and ask how come sexy Ryu is a male power fantasy but sexy Mika is not a female power fantasy? Isn't that a double standard?

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49711872]Y'know I've wondered, where are the people rushing to the controversial choices of Paradox Interactive with the upcoming release of Hearts of Iron IV? Paradox is more or less forced to release a DLC to display "historical portraits" of people like Adolf Hitler and Heinz Guderian due to the current media laws in Germany. Quite literally, that is censorship of video games to the highest degree, as content is being carved out and delivered as a separate package outside of certain countries due to restrictive laws on the arts. And yet nobody bats an eye.[/QUOTE] People [I]do[/I] 'bat an eye' about Germany's censorship laws. Quite a many people in fact. However, Germany's censorship laws are [I]written in to their federal constitution.[/I] Furthermore, that censorship is both handled and delivered in a way that least-infringes in general terms. For instance, Nazi Germany [I]as a nation[/I] is not being removed from the game in order to satisfy some weird spur of historical revisionism, nor are you being forbade from building Panzer IV's for fear that it might awaken the inner fascist lurking in your gamer's heart. In the finest essence of the issue, no one is making a tremendous row over it because that battle is already lost. Meanwhile, in other games, There is no compelling reason or law to do things like remove minigames that have, for quite a many years, not been a problem. The question is not "never let censorship happen." It is, "can we stop censorship from growing?" It appears to be yes, but not by merely sitting by and watching as material is taken by and large from us. Your avatar is a Darkest Dungeon motif. What if I told you, tomorrow, that the Chapel is being removed from the game as a means of stress relief because it trivializes religion, in particular [I]the only religion that matters, [B]Christianity.[/B][/I] You would be fairly peeved by that, I imagine. Edit: A footnote I will add [I]people have made such a big deal about Germany's anti-facism laws that there have been German supreme court cases over when it's okay to display a swastika.[/I]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49702598]It's kinda creepy tbqh[/QUOTE] ey even if it's kind of silly to get this upset it's still not nice to call them creepy just for finding stuff sexy. that's just being rude

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49711872]Y'know I've wondered, where are the people rushing to the controversial choices of Paradox Interactive with the upcoming release of Hearts of Iron IV? Paradox is more or less forced to release a DLC to display "historical portraits" of people like Adolf Hitler and Heinz Guderian due to the current media laws in Germany. Quite literally, that is censorship of video games to the highest degree, as content is being carved out and delivered as a separate package outside of certain countries due to restrictive laws on the arts. And yet nobody bats an eye.[/QUOTE] You should make a video breaking it down, going into detail about German censorship laws with regards to the Nazi's, then post it on here and get a lot of agreement because people mostly already agree with your position and have been criticizing German video game censorship for years now. The only reason I know about Mika's ass slap and DoA not getting a western release is because people posted it on FP. I don't follow those games and I don't follow Hearts of Iron.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49711872]Y'know I've wondered, where are the people rushing to the controversial choices of Paradox Interactive with the upcoming release of Hearts of Iron IV? Paradox is more or less forced to release a DLC to display "historical portraits" of people like Adolf Hitler and Heinz Guderian due to the current media laws in Germany. Quite literally, that is censorship of video games to the highest degree, as content is being carved out and delivered as a separate package outside of certain countries due to restrictive laws on the arts. And yet nobody bats an eye.[/QUOTE] People are quite opposed to censorship in Australia and Germany but only people in those countries can do anything about it. Have an interesting question for you: Who pushes for the censorship in these countries?

[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;49712683]I'm just gonna jump in and ask how come sexy Ryu is a male power fantasy but sexy Mika is not a female power fantasy? Isn't that a double standard?[/QUOTE] This is especially silly when you realize most women cosplay as sexy women at conventions.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;49715965]This is especially silly when you realize most women cosplay as sexy women at conventions.[/QUOTE] Actually most people cosplay as characters they like.