[URL="http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/386454385/606068060820082878/"]http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/386454385/606068060820082878/[/URL]
Here we go again.
[QUOTE=fhASSA;47081322][URL="http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/386454385/606068060820082878/"]http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/386454385/606068060820082878/[/URL]
Here we go again.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Revolution 60 was made by a core team of 4 people for a budget of about $400,000.[/QUOTE]
So, Tim Schafer consulted on this project, then?
There are people on this very site who will still defend a developer that says stuff like this and it blows my fucking mind. Looks like straight white males are stagnating the industry :^)
What a piece of shit, how can anyone support someone like this. I think the most ridiculous thing is that somehow being a MtF transvestite gives you a "I speak for all women and know all about women and being a women even though the majority of my life I was a man" and how "straight white men are such the devil, even though I was one for most of my life" why does no one question the absurdity of something like that? Its fine being trans, who really gives a shit, but to just transition and put a fucking entire lays bag of chips on your shoulder as if you speak for women and know everything and their hardships is just fucking offensive if I was an actual women who faced oppression, having to fucking hear it from a trustfund baby who got $200,000 from their parents at age 20 who blew it all on god knows what who has only associated themselves as a women for only a short time.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2kMciCt.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6SrjpHR.png[/IMG]
I will never have sympathy for indie game devs who complain it's too hard. Yes, it's hard.
But how the fuck can one guy create a game like Banished, one of the best games in its genre around right now if it's "too hard". One guy created that title and it's not only pretty, but it's very well designed.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47081467]I will never have sympathy for indie game devs who complain it's too hard. Yes, it's hard.
But how the fuck can one guy create a game like Banished, one of the best games in its genre around right now if it's "too hard". One guy created that title and it's not only pretty, but it's very well designed.[/QUOTE]
Thats what pisses me off the most, completely excluding Wu and all this shit, I just hate fucking indie devs who piss and moan how hard everything is when 1 person can make fucking incredible games.
Like you said, 1 guy made fucking banished, and its fantastic. 1 Person made FNAF, now before the entire cancerous fanbase and memestatus the game got its still very well made(at least FNAF1) in all departments, sound, atmosphere, mechanics, art style. It has charm(the calls) some nice subtle narrative, and I think I made like $2.50 for it on Desura.
1 fucking guy made fucking Cave Story.
Yet I dont see any of those 3 crying like babies every chance they get.
It seems like the bad devs who make bad games are always the ones who think its everyone elses fault, I wonder why their games stay so shit while humble devs who realize they arent perfect, or even very good(compared to fully vetted professional in the industry) yet tend to make good shit.
I wonder if indie games are going through the stages of the AAA industry sometimes.
If a lot of PS1 looking games start to pop up, that would be interesting.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/0ujgsj6.png[/img]
Life's harsh reality is that even though you try really really hard, it doesn't mean you deserve people to like what you did.
She think shes entitled for the game to be considered good, and if it's not, it's because she's a feminist victim. Even other feminists see through this bullshit
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;47081512]Thats what pisses me off the most, completely excluding Wu and all this shit, I just hate fucking indie devs who piss and moan how hard everything is when 1 person can make fucking incredible games.
Like you said, 1 guy made fucking banished, and its fantastic. 1 Person made FNAF, now before the entire cancerous fanbase and memestatus the game got its still very well made(at least FNAF1) in all departments, sound, atmosphere, mechanics, art style. It has charm(the calls) some nice subtle narrative, and I think I made like $2.50 for it on Desura.
1 fucking guy made fucking Cave Story.
Yet I dont see any of those 3 crying like babies every chance they get.
It seems like the bad devs who make bad games are always the ones who think its everyone elses fault, I wonder why their games stay so shit while humble devs who realize they arent perfect, or even very good(compared to fully vetted professional in the industry) yet tend to make good shit.[/QUOTE]
This logic is stupid. It's like saying "I'm sick of people saying brain surgery is hard, look at how good [best brain surgeon alive] is, it must be easy"
Just because people exist that are really, really good at something does not make that thing stop being hard. You can't go to someone struggling to make a game because they have little experience and lack certain skillsets and say "Cave Story was made by one guy, making games isn't hard, you just SUCK."
If you're making a game all by yourself, you need to be skilled at music creation, programming, sound design, asset creation (which if you're making a 3D game includes creating 3D models and textures, and animating them, which means you need to have taken classes on photoshop, modeling, UV unwrapping, animation, etc.), level design, lighting, gameplay design, QA and bugtesting, and many more things. If there's multiple people doing it, there has to be at least one person in the group that knows how to do each of those things, AND everyone in the group has to know how to coordinate together and there needs to be a competent director to guide everyone.
If you don't have all of that, you end up with a game like Revolution 60.
Don't look at well made games made by small groups and say "Man, game design is EASY." Just because something was done well doesn't mean it was easy.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47082373]This logic is stupid. It's like saying "I'm sick of people saying brain surgery is hard, look at how good [best brain surgeon alive] is, it must be easy"
Just because people exist that are really, really good at something does not make that thing stop being hard. You can't go to someone struggling to make a game because they have little experience and lack certain skillsets and say "Cave Story was made by one guy, making games isn't hard, you just SUCK."
If you're making a game all by yourself, you need to be skilled at music creation, programming, sound design, asset creation (which if you're making a 3D game includes creating 3D models and textures, and animating them, which means you need to have taken classes on photoshop, modeling, UV unwrapping, animation, etc.), level design, lighting, gameplay design, QA and bugtesting, and many more things. If there's multiple people doing it, there has to be at least one person in the group that knows how to do each of those things, AND everyone in the group has to know how to coordinate together and there needs to be a competent director to guide everyone.
If you don't have all of that, you end up with a game like Revolution 60.
Don't look at well made games made by small groups and say "Man, game design is EASY." Just because something was done well doesn't mean it was easy.[/QUOTE]
I think his whole point is that you shouldn't complain and place the blame on something else. The reason those really good Devs are so good are because when they make something shitty they learn from it and try to do better next time instead of complaining.
[QUOTE]What’s frustrating for all of us at GSX is watching our forums on Steam under seige. Let’s be honest, most of this blowback is because Revolution 60 is made by a well-known feminist. [B]A lot of toxic gamers[/B] feel like Steam is their turf, and they want to bully us off the playground. It’s predictable, but I can’t pretend it’s not exhausting.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/386454385/606068060815753534/] [img]http://i.imgur.com/SXo4wNc.png[/img] [/url]
Well I mean that isn't really toxic and it brings up a good point. Let's see how it's doing.
[url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/discussions/386454385#p7] [img]http://i.imgur.com/rpkarFQ.png[/img] [/url]
Oh... Well that has to be an accident right?
[url=http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/386454385/606068060816140846/] [img]http://i.imgur.com/ckrCgJW.png[/img] [/url]
Sorta like the last one still has a good point tho.
[url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/discussions/386454385#p5] [img]http://i.imgur.com/ZXTPyx6.png[/img] [/url]
Oh...
[QUOTE=omarfr;47082489]I think his whole point is that you shouldn't complain and place the blame on something else. The reason those really good Devs are so good are because when they make something shitty they learn from it and try to do better next time instead of complaining.[/QUOTE]
That's an essential thing to have in a creative medium. You have to be incredibly wary of the quality in order to create good stuff.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;47081512]
1 fucking guy made fucking Cave Story.
[/QUOTE]
I also recall the guy worked a full time job, which is why it took 5 years to make in his spare time.
[QUOTE=Borndeadman;47082560]
Well I mean that isn't really toxic and it brings up a good point. Let's see how it's doing.
Oh... Well that has to be an accident right?
Sorta like the last one still has a good point tho.
Oh...[/QUOTE]
Criticism is power + harassment. Or is it the other way around, is it harassment = power + criticism?
I don't know anymore
[QUOTE=gudman;47082706]Criticism is power + harassment. Or is it the other way around, is it harassment = power + criticism?
I don't know anymore[/QUOTE]
Criticism is the integral of harrassment multiplied by power.
[QUOTE=john_pelphre;47082774]Criticism is the integral of harrassment multiplied by power.[/QUOTE]
"We're gonna need a mathematical equation to find out how much you're oppressing me."
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47082373]This logic is stupid. It's like saying "I'm sick of people saying brain surgery is hard, look at how good [best brain surgeon alive] is, it must be easy"
Just because people exist that are really, really good at something does not make that thing stop being hard. You can't go to someone struggling to make a game because they have little experience and lack certain skillsets and say "Cave Story was made by one guy, making games isn't hard, you just SUCK."
If you're making a game all by yourself, you need to be skilled at music creation, programming, sound design, asset creation (which if you're making a 3D game includes creating 3D models and textures, and animating them, which means you need to have taken classes on photoshop, modeling, UV unwrapping, animation, etc.), level design, lighting, gameplay design, QA and bugtesting, and many more things. If there's multiple people doing it, there has to be at least one person in the group that knows how to do each of those things, AND everyone in the group has to know how to coordinate together and there needs to be a competent director to guide everyone.
If you don't have all of that, you end up with a game like Revolution 60.
Don't look at well made games made by small groups and say "Man, game design is EASY." Just because something was done well doesn't mean it was easy.[/QUOTE]
I never meant Games are easy to make, I know they arent. But Brianna Wu has a never ending "Woe is me" attitude over her game and doesnt have any self-awareness on how shit it is and how it being shit is their fault entirely.
Where as the cave story dev is one of the most humble people in the world. FNAF guy seems pretty chill as well when I had a chance to talk to him, and the Banished guy seems pretty down to earth as well.
When you are a dev whos blaming your shitty games success on something like "white heterosexual males" then maybe you need some self-evaluating on whats really the issue.
I'm reading their blog post and the claim that textures (particularly character textures) look like shit because of RAM is laughable. yes, you DO have extremely limited texture memory in mobile but there's ways to plan around it, and reusing like ambient textures for characters is not one of them. besides, even if the textures were a limitation, the polygons aren't, and it makes no sense how everyone looks exactly the same. there's no excuse for the fact all the characters use the exact same base with different hair, that's just bad design, there's no technical limitation there, particularly if you're selling the story over everything else.
Honestly the texture thing is also pretty bullshit because you can make low-res textures look really nice if you know how to design. These textures just have awful design and color choices that makes them unbearable to look at.
Considering it's being ported onto a much more capable platform, there is no excuse for such a low quality product. iOS mobile origins are not an excuse, you are expected to make ports to completely take advantage of the new system, thereby limitations of iOS cannot be truly used.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;47083444][...]FNAF guy seems pretty chill as well when I had a chance to talk to him[...][/QUOTE]The FNAF guy is actually a really good example of what you brought up earlier, about game developers learning and adapting based on feedback and weaknesses.
Dude made a good deal of games beforehand, all of which did very poorly. One in particular, about a bunch of happy beavers, was panned [i]extremely[/i] hard because the characters were right in the uncanny valley. People kept telling him that his characters looked and moved more like soulless robots than the friendly little creatures he wanted to make. Almost all of the discussion was about how downright terrifying they were.
So he sat down and digested that.
[i]Boy did he[/i] digest that.
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/386454385/606068060822175141/#p1[/url]
Meanwhile, this thread basically had most of any possible respect for Mrs. Wu to evaporate due to blatant disregard to inquiry, criticism, and censorship (that has been found problematic by a Steam Mod no less!).
[IMG]http://theralphretort.com/wp-content/uploads/Selection_796.png[/IMG]
According to Wu this never happened.
[QUOTE=omarfr;47084387]Honestly the texture thing is also pretty bullshit because you can make low-res textures look really nice if you know how to design. These textures just have awful design and color choices that makes them unbearable to look at.[/QUOTE]
If I may interject a point about this, albeit slightly self promotional:
[T]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55477377/Slaavikyykkysimulaattori.png[/T]
The jacket and pants are 264x264, while the boots and head are only 128x128.
And the hands are 512x512, but only because they are used in first person and I haven't created a downscaled version of them yet.
[QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;47086442]If I may interject a point about this, albeit slightly self promotional:
[T]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55477377/Slaavikyykkysimulaattori.png[/T]
The jacket and pants are 264x264, while the boots and head are only 128x128.
And the hands are 512x512, but only because they are used in first person and I haven't created a downscaled version of them yet.[/QUOTE]
Looks like a Genome solider.
"my textures are horrible because it's a mobile so we have have limited memory and they have to be low res!!"
ahem
[t]http://a2.mzstatic.com/eu/r30/Purple/v4/f0/a1/6b/f0a16b68-9881-5307-8ab5-c3631f7aef73/screen568x568.jpeg[/t]
[t]http://www.rollabear.com/img/screens/screen1.jpg[/t]
[t]http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/angry-birds-go-is-the-mario-kart-of-the-modern-generation-video-photo-gallery_3.jpg[/t]
[t]http://blog.allmyfaves.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Monument-Valley-was-designed-to-be-played-while-wearing-headphones-and-the-use-of-earbuds-or-headphones-definitely-enhances-the-experience..png[/t]
no sorry you're just a horrendous designer and producer and art director
Also she said she couldn't have more than 5 people on the screen at a time, Didn't GTA San Andreas on IOS have more than 5 people on the screen at a time
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47082373]This logic is stupid. It's like saying "I'm sick of people saying brain surgery is hard, look at how good [best brain surgeon alive] is, it must be easy"
Just because people exist that are really, really good at something does not make that thing stop being hard. You can't go to someone struggling to make a game because they have little experience and lack certain skillsets and say "Cave Story was made by one guy, making games isn't hard, you just SUCK."
If you're making a game all by yourself, you need to be skilled at music creation, programming, sound design, asset creation (which if you're making a 3D game includes creating 3D models and textures, and animating them, which means you need to have taken classes on photoshop, modeling, UV unwrapping, animation, etc.), level design, lighting, gameplay design, QA and bugtesting, and many more things. If there's multiple people doing it, there has to be at least one person in the group that knows how to do each of those things, AND everyone in the group has to know how to coordinate together and there needs to be a competent director to guide everyone.
If you don't have all of that, you end up with a game like Revolution 60.
Don't look at well made games made by small groups and say "Man, game design is EASY." Just because something was done well doesn't mean it was easy.[/QUOTE]
Well, I [I]do[/I] suck at brain surgery and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
[QUOTE=Dermock;47073365]wait, so this game that she got a gorillian victumbux to make is basically DDR slowed the fuck down on a touchscreen? just tap to dodge and shoot once the cooldown lets you?
This was a top 10 indie game?[/QUOTE]
Well Depression Quest got awards of some kind. Can't say I'm surprised.
The character models look DECENT, but that's the nicest thing I'm willing to say about this "game." Maybe that's cause I had a fondness for REboot back in the day. This game makes PSX era graphics look like cutting edge.
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;47086885]Also she said she couldn't have more than 5 people on the screen at a time, Didn't GTA San Andreas on IOS have more than 5 people on the screen at a time[/QUOTE]
well that's quite dependent on polycount, number of bones in the rig, texture res etc
san andreas characters were like ~1000 polys and were probably reduced even further for the ios version. while the characters in revolution 60 look garbage they're probs at least 2000 polys and they'll be fairly detailed for the (shit) facial animations n stuff
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