• [MisterCaption] Overwatch - TF2 Comparison
    129 replies, posted
[QUOTE=KillRay;51740373]After playing comp tf2 for so long I gother mega bored after the novelty of a new game wore off. Even with OW comp mode the game still just feels to casual even into the mechanics with instant gratification "rewards" (and how much the games relies on them ton really do anything, feels even worse than building an uber) with ults and infinite ammo. People talking about never running out of ammo must have played mostly casual TF2 because playing soldier I always had to look for ammo packs if I wanted to keep fighting without needed to go into risky places to grab guns[/QUOTE] How do you run out of ammo as soldier unless you spam and/or can't hit anything?
everyone has their own bias because at best most of the judgement you can make about both games is purely anecdotal.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51740382]How do you run out of ammo as soldier unless you spam and/or can't hit anything?[/QUOTE] Spamming...? If a team is holding an area just lay down fire and try to chip. There's only one medic
[QUOTE=Rusty100;51738456]tf2 is such a better game it's ridiculous. you can actually outskill somebody 1 on 1, instead of the clusterfuck going on in overwatch that is the least personal pvp i've played to date. everyone's focusing on too much at any given time that you'll constantly be killing people who didn't even know you where there or vice versa[/QUOTE] This is the sole reason i got a refund for overwatch after playing about 2 hours of it
Playing pocket soldier uses a lot of spam. You and your demo will be trading ammo packs often Merge
[QUOTE=haloguy234;51739147]And you can't "magically" replenish ammo. He compares the utility of a character and their abilities directly to their usefulness. So let's look at the facts. If you run out of ammo in a tactical shooter, you have to disengage and go find more ammo. Huh. That sounds AWFULLY SIMILAR to some other mechanic...something that REMOVES the usefulness of what you can do...but what could it be? I just can't put my finger on it! OH YEAH, it's ability cooldowns![/QUOTE] The difference being you can actively do something to replenish your ammo, vs a flat waiting period. Imagine you only being able to wait for torbjorn's metal to replenish before throwing another ammo pack instead of collecting it from dead enemies. [QUOTE=haloguy234;51739147]The same applies with ability cooldowns. I think everybody can agree here that running out of ammo is an absolute non problem especially in TF2 where ammo is available in every fucking orifice. If it's not coming out of the payload it's coming out of a dispenser. In Overwatch, if you burn an ability it's because you fucked up. In TF2 if you push and manage to run out of ammo....it's because you...fucked up? I'm sorry, but I just fail to see how somehow having access to a (nearly limitless and always respawning resource) somehow equates to "being able to do more" when in both situations they are fundamentally the exact same thing. If you run out of ammo or get trapped mid-reload and can't dish out any damage, you die. If you burn a useful ability in OW and get stuck in a bad spot with no return, you die. If you run out of ammo, you have to leave the fight to find more. If you use an ability in OW, you can't use it again until it resets, and the time it takes is equally comparable to waiting for an ammo pack respawn unless you're sitting right on top of it.[/QUOTE] You can still use all your abilities perfectly and still fail. With ammo you can save for later, or top off in case something unexpected happens. The difference is, one you can't really control, the other it's your fault. [QUOTE=haloguy234;51739147] And you're right, but considering D.va is only useful at killing things in her face, it's moot. Slow moving targets are easy to hit but considering 90% of "big boy" games aren't filled with everybody playing Roadhog, D.va, and Winston, the three largest and easiest to hit characters in the entire roster, the point is also moot. [/quote] Everyone still moves slowly, and not everyone has movement options to escape. It's still significantly easier to hit people, and spammy weapons make it easier. [QUOTE=haloguy234;51739147] And it shouldn't be like that. One player shouldn't be able to carry their team to victory. With how OW works it's hard to tell if you're being a carry or deadweight, but the reality is it's a very team-focused game and if you watch any high-level competitive gameplay it punishes lone-wolf playstyles entirely. Going out on your own, especially against a team that is actually communicating, will always cause you to die and fast. [/quote] Football, Soccer, CS:GO, and R6S are all heavily team based games, but they all still have options for someone to carry. Or do a crazy push. Sure you don't do as well, but it is still possible. And imo these unexpected outcomes make the game way more fun and interesting. EDIT [QUOTE=haloguy234;51739147]And the same thing can be said about Overwatch. Widow can still snipe when she doesn't have her mine or grapple. Tracer can still pick as well, it just depends on how well you manage your blinks which is really no different than how well you maneuver as Scout. And Reinhardt, Zarya, and Roadhog can still effectively defend when their abilities are on cooldown. Reinhardt can still use his shield and can also still swing his hammer. Zarya can use the charge she gets from morons shooting her bubble to dish out even MORE damage, and Roadhog can still be a beefy fuck and survive basically everything. As an example of team-focused gameplay, if you're playing Reinhardt and your shield breaks but there's also a Mei on your team, she can throw up an ice wall and that is effectively the same thing as a big shield wall. It protects the rest of the team and allows the shield to recharge. What of TF2 and these kinds of small, but big effect team tactics?[/QUOTE] All those you mentioned have resource based gameplay in some form. Tracer has a blink resource where you can choose to use it or not. Reinhardt's shield has a health pool and you can decide whether to use it or not. Zarya and Roadhog are tanks. Their Health pool is a resource. Scout uses bonk to distract sentry while heavy destroys it. Spy saps sentry while demoman makes a push. Engineer sets up a surprise teleporter for the rest of the team to take.
As someone who primarily plays Soldier in TF2, I feel extremely restricted in Overwatch. Both when it comes to maneuverability and how much I'm able to contribute to my team. I also like the great amount of weapons in TF2 because it forces me to rethink my strategies on the fly. I do however understand why it can be annoying to some people (new players in particular).
Overwatch is really fun until you get to the higher levels and suddenly have to actually play it competently to compete instead of just faffing about with all the fun heroes.
It's interesting how he says that he's better at Overwatch than he's with TF2, since for me it's exactly the opposite. I was great at TF2, top of the scoreboard with any class (except with the scout, which might be relevant). But I play Overwatch like somebody with a motor disease. I don't understand that. I was an amazing soldier, but a terrible Pharah. Even as 76 I rarely get a gold medal even though I've been playing CS since childhood.
[QUOTE=Spor;51740808]It's interesting how he says that he's better at Overwatch than he's with TF2, since for me it's exactly the opposite. I was great at TF2, top of the scoreboard with any class (except with the scout, which might be relevant). But I play Overwatch like somebody with a motor disease. I don't understand that. I was an amazing soldier, but a terrible Pharah. Even as 76 I rarely get a gold medal even though I've been playing CS since childhood.[/QUOTE] He's probably aware that Tf2's matchmaking is utter garbage. I have 3500 hours in tf2 and I fucking suck at it, if I go to a DM/MGE server I get destroyed. But anyone with a brain can pubstomp in tf2. Meanwhile Overwatch has such an insanely low skill ceiling that someone who just installed the game 3 days could easily be playing at Master/Grand Master level.
The one thing about Overwatch that doesn't feel pure is the reason for playing. Until recently with leveling, you played TF2 mainly for TF2. Item drops were cool, and I definitely remember idling, but it was a sort of background incentive to play. You didn't know when you'd get it or what you'd get, but hey, no worries- just play the game. (MvM is actually an exception to this, by the way) In Overwatch, you play to level up. Get lootboxes. In Comp, you play to get SR which you can spend to get golden weapons. Play 3v3 to get more lootboxes. It quickly turns into a grind, and Blizzard has made it as much of a fun grind as possible. But the fact that you go into a match to play for more than just [I]enjoying the game itself[/I] makes me feel like Overwatch is less genuine.
[QUOTE=Oizen;51740822]He's probably aware that Tf2's matchmaking is utter garbage. I have 3500 hours in tf2 and I fucking suck at it, if I go to a DM/MGE server I get destroyed. But anyone with a brain can pubstomp in tf2. Meanwhile Overwatch has such an insanely low skill ceiling that someone who just installed the game 3 days could easily be playing at Master/Grand Master level.[/QUOTE] that just isn't true at any level
[QUOTE=Cufflux;51741294]The one thing about Overwatch that doesn't feel pure is the reason for playing. Until recently with leveling, you played TF2 mainly for TF2. Item drops were cool, and I definitely remember idling, but it was a sort of background incentive to play. You didn't know when you'd get it or what you'd get, but hey, no worries- just play the game. (MvM is actually an exception to this, by the way) In Overwatch, you play to level up. Get lootboxes. In Comp, you play to get SR which you can spend to get golden weapons. Play 3v3 to get more lootboxes. It quickly turns into a grind, and Blizzard has made it as much of a fun grind as possible. But the fact that you go into a match to play for more than just [I]enjoying the game itself[/I] makes me feel like Overwatch is less genuine.[/QUOTE] My opinion on that is the exact opposite; I like to play Overwatch for the game, and the fact that playing it rewards me with neat cosmetic items is pretty dope. I don't see lootboxes or golden weapons as incentive for playing, just a bonus that comes along with enjoying the game.
[QUOTE=supersocko;51741549]My opinion on that is the exact opposite; I like to play Overwatch for the game, and the fact that playing it rewards me with neat cosmetic items is pretty dope. I don't see lootboxes or golden weapons as incentive for playing, just a bonus that comes along with enjoying the game.[/QUOTE] It's a lot more transparently a problem with the arcade modes. Adding that extra incentive to play the Arcade mode was instead what completely destroyed it.
[QUOTE=elowin;51741578]It's a lot more transparently a problem with the arcade modes. Adding that extra incentive to play the Arcade mode was instead what completely destroyed it.[/QUOTE] Okay, I agree with that in the case of people that don't like those gamemodes. I personally enjoy each different playmode, especially competitive, so when one type gets players rewards for just playing, I won't complain.
I enjoyed the shit out of Overwatch and sunk dozens of hours into it but there's no reward to being extremely good at the game on your own. You need a strong team and a lot of the time you're going to have 5 players and no healer and you're already the only tank or defense and the last guy decides we need a 2nd genji
[QUOTE=supersocko;51741612]Okay, I agree with that in the case of people that don't like those gamemodes. I personally enjoy each different playmode, especially competitive, so when one type gets players rewards for just playing, I won't complain.[/QUOTE] More like it ruined them for the people who like those gamemodes. Since everyone is now getting extra incentive for winning these modes, everyone wants to win these modes. These modes which are meant to be lighthearted fun and not balanced at all. So now people are playing these completely unbalanced gamemodes with a competitive mindset. And then you get the absolute meta-shitfest that is current 3v3 and CTF.
[QUOTE=Cpt. Cakes;51740041]I prefer the movement of TF2, seems much more fluid and fast Also there's no airstrafing in Overwatch which really throws me off[/QUOTE] Tell that to any Junkrat who's tried to knock people off the map with his mine.
Overwatch doesn't have air strafing, it just has air movement. Honestly Air Straifing feels a lot more natural, over watch seems to really hate the concept for forward momentum.
I think what I hate the most about OW is the Time-To-Kill. I really hate games with short TTK. That's one of the biggest reasons why I prefer TF2, and actually had more fun playing Paladins.
A lot of you in the thread really don't know what you're talking about. Overwatch isn't just a shittier TF2 with cooldowns and chokepoints. They are very different games. All you need to do to figure this out is to compare the map design. TF2 usually has lots of open areas with lots of vertical layers. Overwatch is generally lots of hallways with defenders on the highground. This isn't better or worse, it's just how the games are designed. TF2 doesn't have a tank whilst Overwatch does. This is deliberate. You can not like Overwatch for any reason really, but don't try to assert that Blizzard was trying to make a TF2-like game but fucked up please.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;51742342][B]TF2 doesn't have a tank[/B][/QUOTE] did you forget the heavy existed
[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;51742368]did you forget the heavy existed[/QUOTE] not at all the same design philosophy
I don't think it's fair to compare a game that has 10 years worth of updates to a game that has only been out for half a year. Give Overwatch some time to develop like you did for TF2.
Watching more of this video and he's fallen into the trap of saying Overwatch needs advanced movement. Not every FPS needs this. Look at Rainbow Six Siege, do you think that game would be anywhere near as fun if there was a glitch that let you move incredibly fast through the air? Overwatch isn't designed for Soldier mains to zoom across from 1 side of the map to another within 12 seconds.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;51742342]A lot of you in the thread really don't know what you're talking about. Overwatch isn't just a shittier TF2 with cooldowns and chokepoints. They are very different games. All you need to do to figure this out is to compare the map design. [b]TF2 usually has lots of open areas with lots of vertical layers. Overwatch is generally lots of hallways with defenders on the lowground.[/b] This isn't better or worse, it's just how the games are designed. TF2 doesn't have a tank whilst Overwatch does. This is deliberate. You can not like Overwatch for any reason really, but don't try to assert that Blizzard was trying to make a TF2-like game but fucked up please.[/QUOTE] That does make TF2 a better game though? Choke points make the game really frustrating, and the most importantly unfair. Even first stage of Gold Rush in TF2 which is pretty infamous for the the last part of stage 1 is much more open than a lot of maps on OW. Compare it to for example to King's Row where it's one small room with the last CP just outside the spawn room, same with Hanamura.
[QUOTE=BananaMed;51742414]That does make TF2 a better game though? Choke points make the game really frustrating, and the most importantly unfair. Even first stage of Gold Rush in TF2 which is pretty infamous for the the last part of stage 1 is much more open than a lot of maps on OW. Compare it to for example to King's Row where it's one small room with the last CP just outside the spawn room, same with Hanamura.[/QUOTE] Huh, didn't know chokepoints make games inherently bad. Guess I should tell everyone to stop playing CS, Rainbow Six Siege, Red Orchestra, Insurgency, and TF2's Dustbowl map. Wait TF2 had a chokepoint???
[QUOTE=Demolitions2;51737968]I agree with everything here. I got Overwatch when it first came out, played it for about half a month, then haven't touched it since. Too many annoying things to deal with IMO[/QUOTE] I thought I was the only one. I was super excited for the game to come out and basically did nothing but played the beta weekend when it was available but within about 40 hours after launch I was just bored and I feel bad because technically it's slick as shit. I never had problems with performance or hit detection and movement/gunplay felt great. It has a cool universe, cool characters, and a great artstyle. But for some reason it just doesn't connect with me like Battlefield 1 or Titanfall do.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;51742407]Watching more of this video and he's fallen into the trap of saying Overwatch needs advanced movement. Not every FPS needs this. [B]Look at Rainbow Six Siege, do you think that game would be anywhere near as fun if there was a glitch that let you move incredibly fast through the air?[/B] Overwatch isn't designed for Soldier mains to zoom across from 1 side of the map to another within 12 seconds.[/QUOTE] This comparison doesn't really make much sense considering R6S is a vastly different game to TF2 and OW than OW to TF2
[QUOTE=Destroyox;51742429]Huh, didn't know chokepoints make games inherently bad. Guess I should tell everyone to stop playing CS, Rainbow Six Siege, Red Orchestra, Insurgency, and TF2's Dustbowl map. Wait TF2 had a chokepoint???[/QUOTE] I like how you suddenly threw in there games that are totally different from TF2 or Overwatch. I don't even know what your point about TF2 is. It's obvious Team Fortress has choke points. The difference is it has a lot of alternate routes to capture points that are open to every character. I have almost never found myself without any option to progress further into the map, there was always a corridor or a tunnel I could proceed into to avoid most of the combat. Another big deal about Team Fortress is not having any obvious impenetrable points near control points, which you cannot take unless you have a significantly better team. Even if the odds are stacked against you heavily in TF2, an individual with sufficient skill can turn the tide of the game, like a good spy killing an enginner and sapping all his stuff, or a a soldier that knows how to use corners to take out a sentry nest. How a spy can trick an enemy medic to pop his uber, I can go on, and on. You just don't see things comparable to this in overwatch.
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