• Fallout 4 Official Trailer
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[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47875316]Which was pretty much just "bad guys are bad and are doing bad thing to demonstrate they're bad."[/QUOTE] The Legion was largely left unfinished due to time constraints, but having looked at the faction in-depth they are far more interesting than the brutish women hating murderers they appear to be. You have to look at the Legion as a civilization born from violent savage tribes - they were a radical ideology created to show the player New Vegas was a battle of cultures and philosophies that would dictate America for years to come. It is easier for us in the West to utterly despise the Legion from our upbringing, we are by majority outright ideologically opposed to Legion preaching. But I believe Obsidian did this intentionally to challenge us; they were a "end justifies the means" society. While the Legion was violent and dictatorial, you find out that there was peace and even prosperity back in the lands they conquered; raiders didn't attack the caravans, trade was booming and the military regime was something the anarchistic east needed to organize and rebuild. From that of course you have Caesar, an egotistical man who united these bloodthirsty chem addicted tribes into a disciplined force. Their radical philosophies about the dangers of technology and embracing humanities true tribal nature was completely opposed to the NCR's attempt to rebuild what caused the nuclear apocalypse in the first place. While the NCR was already rotting to a familiar old world bureaucracy the Legion marched on pure, strong and uncorruptible - bringing civilization and peace to people by the sword. These traits we see in the wasteland are not even out-right opposed by some, others even welcome it. The people wanted to walk the roads without risk of being ambushed by raiders, the ability to farm, rebuild, drink clean water, be provided with food and shelter or even with purpose. Everything the Legion did had some doctrine and belief behind it - from a lack of technology to enslavement and punishments; they believed in absolutes and strength. The ultimate plan of course was to build a Rome in New Vegas; giving his nation a capital city at last. Not only would this be a symbol to America showing the Legion was strong - but that the lifestyle of the old world was degenerate, morally corroding, weak, obsolete and a bygone area of America that couldn't and shouldn't be looked back at with romance. [QUOTE][IMG]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/8/85/Conceptart-thefort-B.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20101002082402[/IMG] [IMG]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/a/a1/Legion.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20050224150755[/IMG][/QUOTE] In short? New Vegas was trying to show us who the real savages were, and not everything was so black and white.
Playing through FO3 again is making me realize just how much of an improvement NV was. Also jesus, everything is so inaccurate at early level. In NV, if you could shoot gud, you had the varmint rifle for semi-long distances. Shit ain't happening here.
Oh of course I forgot this said by JESawyer regarding the unfinished Legion and what we would have seen: [quote]The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control. While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people. The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards). In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway).[/quote]
[QUOTE=Vasili;47876810]Oh of course I forgot this said by JESawyer regarding the unfinished Legion and what we would have seen:[/QUOTE] Was just about to post this. It's a shame, too. The Legion had so much potential to really shine out in this game, but due to time constraints and other stuff most of the juicy, not "WE ARE PURE EVIL :)))" shit was left on the cutting room floor.
[QUOTE=Vasili;47876552]The Legion was largely left unfinished due to time constraints, but having looked at the faction in-depth they are far more interesting than the brutish women hating murderers they appear to be. You have to look at the Legion as a civilization born from violent savage tribes - they were a radical ideology created to show the player New Vegas was a battle of cultures and philosophies that would dictate America for years to come. It is easier for us in the West to utterly despise the Legion from our upbringing, we are by majority outright ideologically opposed to Legion preaching. But I believe Obsidian did this intentionally to challenge us; they were a "end justifies the means" society. While the Legion was violent and dictatorial, you find out that there was peace and even prosperity back in the lands they conquered; raiders didn't attack the caravans, trade was booming and the military regime was something the anarchistic east needed to organize and rebuild. From that of course you have Caesar, an egotistical man who united these bloodthirsty chem addicted tribes into a disciplined force. Their radical philosophies about the dangers of technology and embracing humanities true tribal nature was completely opposed to the NCR's attempt to rebuild what caused the nuclear apocalypse in the first place. While the NCR was already rotting to a familiar old world bureaucracy the Legion marched on pure, strong and uncorruptible - bringing civilization and peace to people by the sword. These traits we see in the wasteland are not even out-right opposed by some, others even welcome it. The people wanted to walk the roads without risk of being ambushed by raiders, the ability to farm, rebuild, drink clean water, be provided with food and shelter or even with purpose. Everything the Legion did had some doctrine and belief behind it - from a lack of technology to enslavement and punishments; they believed in absolutes and strength. The ultimate plan of course was to build a Rome in New Vegas; giving his nation a capital city at last. Not only would this be a symbol to America showing the Legion was strong - but that the lifestyle of the old world was degenerate, morally corroding, weak, obsolete and a bygone area of America that couldn't and shouldn't be looked back at with romance. In short? New Vegas was trying to show us who the real savages were, and not everything was so black and white.[/QUOTE] I'm less kind in my interpretation of the Legion, but I agree that they deserve a bit more credit than they get. On some level, they're basically like a lot of bad guys in video games--they're a bunch of despicable fascist bullies who believe that the weak should submit to the strong and there really is no rehabilitating or negotiating with them. But I think the way Obsidian handles them gives them a bit of sociological oomph that these kinds of villains don't usually have. Besides Vulpes, the Legion aren't a bunch of sneering sadists, they're civil and disciplined and highly conscientious, and even when they rape and slaughter entire towns of people, it feels consistent with their own lopsided value system. When you talk to them, and you hear about and see how people are raised in the Legion, it really impresses that everyone growing up in this society constructs everything in their life, from family, to sexuality, to interpersonal relationships, as a strict and brutal hierarchy. They also feel like a commentary on the whole idea of civilization itself. For the player on the receiving end of it, they look like a bunch of savages, but when we look back at history, at all the civilizations we generally consider 'great', like Rome, Achaemenid Persia, Imperial China, etc. we're enamored by how orderly and powerful they were, and we unconsciously leave out of our evaluation of them all the astonishing amounts of murder these civilizations had to commit to get to where they got. The Legion basically acts like those great civilizations, and wears the trappings of Rome to drive the point home, but stripped of the bias that would lead us to otherwise excuse all their atrocities with "But it'll all be worth it in the end." I also think that Caesar is just a good villain. Essentially, his 'sin' isn't being a bloodthirsty warlord, his 'sin' is being a reasonably intelligent, reasonably educated guy who thinks he's right about everything and hates the world for not listening to whatever he says, and builds an echo chamber around himself that allows every crackpot idea he comes up with to be accepted completely uncritically. For all the power he wields, he's essential gotten himself lost in the underworld, where he's become incapable of intellectual or emotional growth. It's familiar and it's very human.
So Facepunch officially hates the new Fallouts now, even though most of you claimed to love them beforehand? Sometimes I really hate this place. it feels like everything is a new bandwagon to jump on.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;47876095]Also, don't the Brotherhood exist mostly in California? If the BoS we see is an expansion of that, wouldn't that have taken a very long time to reach the other coast? Wouldn't they have been there for decades, almost completely cut off from their brothers in the West? Don't societies and cultures diverge naturally after they become cut off from each other for very long periods of time? I don't think it's far fetched to assume that after a very, very long amount of time, the Brotherhood in the East developed their own philosophies unique from the ones in the West. I'm not saying that Fallout 3 is a very well written game, it's not really, but the biggest criticisms seem to fall apart under the most basic scrutiny.[/QUOTE] I looked into this more after a discussion with my friend and it turns out that BoS in the East is actually a rogue chapter. They were cut off from their HQ in the West at Lost Hills after Lyons, the elder of the chapter, directly opposed their orders and philosophies. This in turn caused a schism within his own chapter, who believed that they had failed the original mission. This is why you run into the outcasts in Operation Anchorage. I think this is a more sound explanation than my own. All it took was for one guy to go "Yo, maybe we should do things differently."
[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;47878932]So Facepunch officially hates the new Fallouts now, even though most of you claimed to love them beforehand? Sometimes I really hate this place. it feels like everything is a new bandwagon to jump on.[/QUOTE] stop taking peoples posts and conflating them with other peoples posts as if everyone is the same person and maybe, just maybe, you won't have that problem of "OH WHAT PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR MINDS" People do actually change their minds. But in general, FP is pretty friendly towards FO3 and NV. Doesn't mean there isn't things to critique.
[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;47878932]So Facepunch officially hates the new Fallouts now, even though most of you claimed to love them beforehand? Sometimes I really hate this place. it feels like everything is a new bandwagon to jump on.[/QUOTE] facepunch is not one person
[QUOTE=Judas;47879840]facepunch is not one person[/QUOTE] That Facepunch guy sounds like an idiot though.
[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;47878932]So Facepunch officially hates the new Fallouts now, even though most of you claimed to love them beforehand? Sometimes I really hate this place. it feels like everything is a new bandwagon to jump on.[/QUOTE] that's not true at all, we're actually having arguments and discussions in this thread about the game and not sharing one opinion.
[QUOTE=Judas;47879840]facepunch is not one person[/QUOTE] When circle jerk happens, we know it becomes one.
One random thing I like is how the power armor looks obnoxiously beefy; It genuinely looks like it could withstand a tank shell. Which is great, considering the Enclave armor from FO3 looked like an incredibly shit and cumbersome version of the batsuit and the t45-d armor looked imposing but wildly generic. Even looking at the differences between FO4's and FO3's helmets shows the detail they've put into it.
Pretty pumped, a lot of people seemed stuck on the graphics not being incredible but when it comes to fallout that shit never mattered, 3 and NV look like shit, and pretty much did the day they released. If they stick to their FO3/NV formula it seems pretty fucking hard to fuck up. Its really going to come down to the writing and quests, which FO3 didnt do great with while NV blew it out of the water.
I hope they have hit animations this time around. I'm not talking those 1 or 2 stumbling anims all beth games since oblivion have, I want varied hit reactions that make it clear the power of the weapon you are using. Also more tactical firefights would be nice.
[QUOTE=Vasili;47876411] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvwlt4FqmS0[/media] [/QUOTE] I always hate pointing to a video when I'm trying to explain a point, but I find it hard to avoid posting this one from time to time. It just hits the nail on the head so hard.
[QUOTE=Skyward;47889206]I always hate pointing to a video when I'm trying to explain a point, but I find it hard to avoid posting this one from time to time. It just hits the nail on the head so hard.[/QUOTE] His me3 ending video pretty much sums up everything for me.
Being able to kill random wastelanders for their hats with shiny new graphics, can't wait! seriously though, I'm pumped. Looking forward to the E3 reveal.
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