Maddox vs Penn & Teller: My take on their bullshit - General

[QUOTE=dvc;49160960]i really dont understand how people can genuinely like maddox[/QUOTE] I really don't understand how people can genuinely like you.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49162058]its a late post but people still do this as well as link various comedians as high holders of valuable political and social wisdom[/QUOTE] I see nothing wrong with posting a comedian video if they explain a point exceptionally well. [editline]21st November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;49162098] game devs/journalists shouldn't be held to the same standards for hopefully obvious reasonss[/QUOTE] Baseless threats shouldn't be taken seriously.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49162733]Comedians can totally be smart people with something to offer to the global discussion. Saying that they can't contribute because they spark laughter would only be okay if you were consistent with your opinions, suggesting that artists as a whole can't deliver a message, and that would only be enough to plug that specific hole in your argument.[/QUOTE] comedians in many ways are modern philosophers

I'll stand behind people who question the status quo regardless of their occupation. All that matters to me is the argument. This is why I personally enjoy Maddox despite not agreeing with them on everything, and why I used to watch Penn and Teller's show. It's why I have the friends that I do, and why I am the way I am - a skeptic is what I strive to be. Igrew up with people like Maddox, George Carlin, Jon Stewart, and Penn and Teller. All of these people were shown to me by my mother, who tried to get me to understand evolution back in elementary school, and tried to get me into people as controversial as George Carlin in Middle School. And oddly enough, she showed me more stuff but what I latched onto were a lot of the comedians and satirists.

[QUOTE=dvc;49160960]i really dont understand how people can genuinely like maddox[/QUOTE] putting "boo hoo I hate maddox" in the form of a question doesn't make it sound any less whiny

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49162944] Igrew up with people like Maddox, George Carlin, Jon Stewart, and Penn and Teller. All of these people were shown to me by my mother, who tried to get me to understand evolution back in elementary school, and tried to get me into people as controversial as George Carlin in Middle School. And oddly enough, she showed me more stuff but what I latched onto were a lot of the comedians and satirists.[/QUOTE] That's very interesting. Don't usually hear about parents actually training their kids to be more skeptical or challenged to think for themselves. Usually parents just want their kids to be obedient to authority.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49163504]That's very interesting. Don't usually hear about parents actually training their kids to be more skeptical or challenged to think for themselves. Usually parents just want their kids to be obedient to authority.[/QUOTE] That's because most parents are bad parents, unfortunately.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49163504]That's very interesting. Don't usually hear about parents actually training their kids to be more skeptical or challenged to think for themselves. Usually parents just want their kids to be obedient to authority.[/QUOTE] My dad taught me how to be a skeptic despite the fact that he was a preacher at the Church I used to attend. He always brought me home science and history magazines and he was really big into astronomy.

[QUOTE=Brt5470;49160163]With how common death threats are, it's pretty much guaranteed they got plenty. Hell, I've gotten them because of an opinion I had in a game review video.[/QUOTE] Considering that they frequently bait for hatred and rely heavily on the victim card for funding and cultural relevancy putting them on a podium next to real victims. To me it seems equivalent to talking about domestic violence and have 4 women on stage with bruises and saying look at all these poor victims. Despite the fact that 2 of these women beat their husbands and got hit in return. The video also makes it seem that Brianna was forced to run away from her home. Which turned out to be a big farce. John Oliver is a biased "source" as he will use whatever claims fit in most with the point he feels like selling. I remember seeing him using the Washington post (shitty rag of a paper) as a source that basically states "regular economic migrants from western countries are good for the economy" and then arguing look at this source not accepting syrian refugees doesn't make any sense1!1. Which is bullshit as that's a clear case of comparing apples and oranges. He's not always shit but I definitely don't consider him trustworthy.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49163504]That's very interesting. Don't usually hear about parents actually training their kids to be more skeptical or challenged to think for themselves. Usually parents just want their kids to be obedient to authority.[/QUOTE] I don't want to be mean or pompous or whatever, and I've had problems with my parents just like any normal human being, but I can see the difference between some kids' relationships with their parents. I'm usually up to talk to my parents about pretty much anything. In comparison, some of my friends can't open up with the basics of anything. It leads a lot of them to rebel and then get into further trouble with a complete misunderstanding of each other. And while I'm not willing to make a blanket statement with religion, it happens a lot with religious families and people who had to deal with the same thing from their parents - the more [I]traditional[/I] family. [editline]22nd November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Murky42;49164658]Considering that they frequently bait for hatred and rely heavily on the victim card for funding and cultural relevancy putting them on a podium next to real victims. To me it seems equivalent to talking about domestic violence and have 4 women on stage with bruises and saying look at all these poor victims. Despite the fact that 2 of these women beat their husbands and got hit in return. The video also makes it seem that Brianna was forced to run away from her home. Which turned out to be a big farce. John Oliver is a biased "source" as he will use whatever claims fit in most with the point he feels like selling. I remember seeing him using the Washington post (shitty rag of a paper) as a source that basically states "regular economic migrants from western countries are good for the economy" and then arguing look at this source not accepting syrian refugees doesn't make any sense1!1. Which is bullshit as that's a clear case of comparing apples and oranges. He's not always shit but I definitely don't consider him trustworthy.[/QUOTE] Even though Brianna Wu makes mistakes I'm not willing to completely invalidate the crap that people fling at her. She gets a lot of hate that shouldn't be justified by any means, even if she's "asking for it". People should have the maturity and the reason required to [I]move on[/I] if they disagree with her, or protest nicely. Instead, I'm sure she's getting a lot of harassment just like any figure on the internet would [I]plus[/I] the flak you'd get for being a woman [I]plus[/I] the flak she'd get for her mistakes. The fact that her appearance is brought up in conversations about her so often is something I find disturbing.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49165653]Even though Brianna Wu makes mistakes I'm not willing to completely invalidate the crap that people fling at her. She gets a lot of hate that shouldn't be justified by any means, even if she's "asking for it". People should have the maturity and the reason required to [I]move on[/I] if they disagree with her, or protest nicely. Instead, I'm sure she's getting a lot of harassment just like any figure on the internet would [I]plus[/I] the flak you'd get for being a woman [I]plus[/I] the flak she'd get for her mistakes. The fact that her appearance is brought up in conversations about her so often is something I find disturbing.[/QUOTE] The issue is that getting all of that was exactly what she set out to do in the first place. If you follow her history it's painfully obvious that she saw the attention and sympathy that Zoe was getting, said "I want some of that shit", then kicked the beehive and played up how much she got stung (saying ridiculous shit like "I got threatened out of my home and now I'm homeless ;_;" after leaving her house for 2 hours). She even got caught making topics on her OWN MESSAGE BOARD encouraging other people to make fun of her. You shouldn't feel bad for her for getting "harassed" because it's exactly what she wanted from the beginning.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;49165895]The issue is that getting all of that was exactly what she set out to do in the first place. If you follow her history it's painfully obvious that she saw the attention and sympathy that Zoe was getting, said "I want some of that shit", then kicked the beehive and played up how much she got stung (saying ridiculous shit like "I got threatened out of my home and now I'm homeless ;_;" after leaving her house for 2 hours). She even got caught making topics on her OWN MESSAGE BOARD encouraging other people to make fun of her. You shouldn't feel bad for her for getting "harassed" because it's exactly what she wanted from the beginning.[/QUOTE]I don't really think she's a great person, but it still doesn't change the fact that [I]I'm[/I] interacting with people that enjoy making fun of her and contribute with unnecessary comments. Regardless of whether or not someone is egging stuff on, there has to be a contributing second party. [QUOTE=wauterboi;48848517]But Brianna Wu [I]is[/I] constantly harassed despite the fact that her games are awful. Think about how many people make fun of her strictly based on appearance - it's ridiculous. Also, when looking for this image, it was captioned. [img]https://kiwifar.ms/attachments/zombie-notices-prey-gif.22335/[/img] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/965202/ShareX/2015/10/2015-10-07_03-07-32.png[/img] But past appearance, I'm totally willing to believe that she gets a lot of flak from people just like I believe any internet celebrity would. The fact that I'm a nobody and I've had people attempt to hijack my accounts, give me death threats, and deliver pizza to my house is simply a starting point that I could only imagine gets worse as time continues. Is Brianna Wu a little off-kiler? Yeah. Does she try to justify the crappiness of her games by deflecting? Sure! Does that completely invalidate the fact that she's constantly fucked with and dished out a lot of hate? Nope.[/QUOTE] I'm all for saying that she asks for some of it, but I'm not willing to invalidate [I]all[/I] of the harassment she gets and I'm not willing to say she deserves [I]all[/I] of the harassment she gets. I'm also not willing to comment on someone's irrationality in response to something like death threats and phone calls. Is she irrational? Sure. Does she deserve everything that comes her way? No. And I'm not saying that because she's herself - I feel the same way about TotalBiscuit. Has he been an asshole in the past? Yup! Does he still have the capacity to be one? Probably. Does he deserve the consistent amount of hate that he gets daily? Nah. Can I impugn him for having trouble not focusing on his dissenters to the detriment of his health? No. I'd also question if she's doing this whole thing for money or because of a psychological problem, like some sort of masochism in which one asks to be bullied because of things like depression or denial or something like that. I think it can be way more complex than boiling it down to just "she wants attention" - why does she want attention? Could her entire situation be way more complex than the simplified version people are trying to argue? I knew a girl who put herself in these situations to be bullied and she was eventually hospitalized for attempted suicide. Or perhaps it started like that and became what people argue it is now. Or perhaps it's nothing that you and I are saying. Or perhaps it is exactly what you are saying to the T. I dunno, but I'm not comfortable with saying it's totally [I]this[/I] and that there's nothing to be learned from what we know now, which is that people are willing to provide the harassment.

[QUOTE=Murky42;49164658] Washington post (shitty rag of a paper)[/QUOTE] What?

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49159529]Maddox's autograph is worth jack shit. What an insult to Penn.[/QUOTE] The "I'm better than everyone" is Maddox's type of humour, dude.

[QUOTE=Wii60;49162086]fun fact about this. he says online harrassment is bad buuuuuuuuut [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMdDykp_KXs&t=2m40s[/url][/QUOTE] but he says a world leader shouldn't be moved by online harassment? Big fucking deal? How is that contradictory? just like name calling is frowned upon, but I'd still frown upon a world leader not being able to take handle it well. [editline]22nd November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Daniel Smith;49166243]The "I'm better than everyone" is Maddox's type of humour, dude.[/QUOTE] it's not really humour imo it's just sad [QUOTE=Katatonic717;49166280]Yeah Maddox actually has some pretty serious depression and self loathing issues iirc I think his "I am the best ever" schtick is how he deals with it[/QUOTE] and this is why i think it's sad

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;49166243]The "I'm better than everyone" is Maddox's type of humour, dude.[/QUOTE] Yeah Maddox actually has some pretty serious depression and self loathing issues iirc I think his "I am the best ever" schtick is how he deals with it [editline]22nd November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;49166268]it's not really humour imo it's just sad[/QUOTE] He's not serious at all dude He goes to fucking book signings dressed like this [t]http://www.dallariva.org/wojtasik/Maddox/DSC08878.JPG[/t] Do you honestly think he means what he says? He just making fun of himself

[QUOTE=Katatonic717;49166280]Yeah Maddox actually has some pretty serious depression and self loathing issues iirc I think his "I am the best ever" schtick is how he deals with it [editline]22nd November 2015[/editline] He's not serious at all dude He goes to fucking book signings dressed like this [t]http://www.dallariva.org/wojtasik/Maddox/DSC08878.JPG[/t] Do you honestly think he means what he says? He just making fun of himself[/QUOTE] I know he doesn't mean what he says, but the front is still sad.

I noticed a correlation between people who are very critical of others and those who are very critical of themselves. That can take a toll on anyone's mental health.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;49166296]I know he doesn't mean what he says, but the front is still sad.[/QUOTE] it's actually not a front anymore. he's talked about it on his podcast, it was a 'fake it til you make it' sort of deal and it worked

[QUOTE=Anonymuzz;49166332]it's actually not a front anymore. he's talked about it on his podcast, it was a 'fake it til you make it' sort of deal and it worked[/QUOTE] Oh yeah wasn't that the episode with dealing with perfectionism and self loathing? His advice actually really helped me crawl out of my depression.

[QUOTE=Katatonic717;49166343]Oh yeah wasn't that the episode with dealing with perfectionism and self loathing? His advice actually really helped me crawl out of my depression.[/QUOTE] Link to podcast episode?

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;49166351]Link to podcast episode?[/QUOTE] [url]http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com/episode-67/[/url] the segment on self-defeating thoughts

[QUOTE=Katatonic717;49166280]Yeah Maddox actually has some pretty serious depression and self loathing issues iirc I think his "I am the best ever" schtick is how he deals with it [editline]22nd November 2015[/editline] He's not serious at all dude He goes to fucking book signings dressed like this [t]http://www.dallariva.org/wojtasik/Maddox/DSC08878.JPG[/t] Do you honestly think he means what he says? He just making fun of himself[/QUOTE] Maddox has honestly had some really touching discussions on how he has personally been messed up to the point of becoming suicidal, and even past that being so nervous about his book signings that he would sit there and prepare for three hours ahead of time only to remain nervous. Episodes of The Biggest Problem in the Universe I'd recommend for people who aren't even fans of Maddox: [url=http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com/episode-67/]Episode 67, where Maddox brings in "Self-Defeating Thoughts" as a problem[/url] [url=http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com/episode-54/]Episode 54, where Dick Masterson brings in "Perfectionism" as a problem[/url] [url=http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com/episode-73/]Episode 73, where Maddox brings in "Friend-Zoned Pussies" as a problem[/url] I'll draw some quotes from the transcript of Episode 67: [quote] Maddox: [...] And I'll tell you, man. I used to ha…I used to suffer from depression, a lot. I used to be really depressed, especially in my early 20's. I was suicidal. I was suicidal. I totally get it. I totally get that…that… Dick: (interjects) How suicidal? What do you mean, suicidal? Maddox: Well, umm…I mean, I thought about it. I thought that "I got nothing to live for," you know, "Life sucks". "This is garbage." Everything's terrible. I was a miserable person. And anytime anyone asked me how I was doing, my default response was "Shitty." Right? Dick: Mmm. Maddox: And I remember the day I realized I was depressed, was when I was at work. I was sitting on a bench outside. And some of my coworkers came up to me and they said, "Hey Maddox, what are you doing this weekend?" And I said, "Oh, I don't know. I don't have any plans." He said, "What do you want to do?" And I thought about it, and my answer was "Nothing". I thought, I don't really wanna do anything. I didn't want to play video games. I didn't want to eat. [...] When you don't want…when you don't want to do anything. Like, liter…it wasn't in a…in a relaxing sense, like, "I just want to go home and unwind." Dick: Yeah. Maddox: It was in a sense like, "Nothing brings me joy." Dick: "I have no hopes or dreams." Maddox: No hopes or dreams. Dick: Yeah. Maddox: Nothing. I don't want to do anything. And video games were my favorite thing, and I didn't even wanna play video games. And then that's when I realized I was depressed, and so out of desperation and depression, I decided to experiment. I actually overcame my depression this way. And I didn't read this anywhere. It was just an experiment I did on my own. Dick: Okay. Maddox: I thought I was gonna start lying to people. Dick: Great! (big grin) Yes!!! (Maddox laughs) Maddox: I thought, "What do I have to lose?" Right? Dick: Only gain!!! (Maddox laughs) Only gains!! And if you lose, lie about it!! Maddox: What a dickhead. No. I…I said "I'm going to start lying to people all the time," And I decided a specific type of lie, right? Uh, if they asked me how I was doing, I was gonna tell them the opposite. Dick: Oh, okay. Maddox: I was just gonna start fucking with it. Dick: Fake it 'til you make it, kind of thing. Maddox: I didn't know… Dick: (interjects) Is that where you were going? Maddox: I didn't know that that's what it was! Dick: Sure, sure, sure. Go ahead. Maddox: But essentially, yeah. Dick: Yeah. Maddox: I decided to tell them the opposite. Uh, people would ask me how I was doing and I said, "Great." Or "Excellent." Dick: Yeah. Maddox: "Better than ever". And I remember, too. I remember typing "better than ever", and then someone wrote back and they said, "Why?" and I thought, "Well, shit." I didn't think that they would ask. Sean: I've dug myself a hole now!! Dick: Now I gotta really gin up the lie machine. Maddox: Uh-huh. And so then I thought about it, well, I thought, "What could I possibly say here to just get them off my back?" Dick: Mhmm. Maddox: And I said, like, the simplest thing ever. I just said, "Well, I thought about it, and I thought, "Well I guess I'm in college, and I'm about halfway towards graduating…" So I said that. And then I…and then I told another person, they said, "Why?" And over the course of two weeks, I kept trying to justify why I was in a good mood, and I said, "Well, I got a family." Dick: Yeah. Maddox: I said, "I got a roof over my head." I got a good paying job. Uh, I'm relatively healthy. I'm young. I have my life ahead of me. And then I thought…(stammers) I said, "I own hundreds of video games." I have all this…(Dick guffaws) Dick: That was the capper! (Maddox laughs) Then you exploded and a rainbow shot outta your butt. Maddox: [...] I'd accomplish one of my life goals!!! Anyway, man. Um, so over the course of two weeks, I found that my life had shifted, my philos…my mindset had shifted.[/quote] So his shtick of being over-confident and stuff like that is partially for humor that acts like "sugar to help the medicine go down" with his messages, but also referential to the fact that his confidence and charisma is what keeps himself from being crushed to death by his own inner-demons. He regularly emphasizes confidence in everything because it's what saved himself from straight up committing suicide. And that goes without saying the side effects when it comes to finding people to start relationships, marketing yourself professionally, and all of that stuff. Also, I've met the guy in real life and he's totally not what he makes himself out to be in his videos. He's a super nice dude and has a ton of nice things to say. He basically concentrates his anger into his videos and writing, and in real life he's learned not to bicker all the time and whatever. He's a solid dude and above all else I think he really gives a shit.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49165653]Even though Brianna Wu makes mistakes I'm not willing to completely invalidate the crap that people fling at her. She gets a lot of hate that shouldn't be justified by any means, even if she's "asking for it". People should have the maturity and the reason required to [I]move on[/I] if they disagree with her, or protest nicely. Instead, I'm sure she's getting a lot of harassment just like any figure on the internet would [I]plus[/I] the flak you'd get for being a woman [I]plus[/I] the flak she'd get for her mistakes. The fact that her appearance is brought up in conversations about her so often is something I find disturbing.[/QUOTE] Yes but putting her on what is effectively perceived by the public as a news piece (comedy is the new news) and then treating her like a poor victim without any of the backstory is disingenuous. Furthermore I don't think Brianna Wu is a good way to sell that the internet is a "cancerous place" due to her abuse seeking behavior. It's like trying to use "its just a prank bro" videos to say look at how violent people. Completely ignoring the fact that they trying as hard as humanly possible to get that specific reaction. Furthermore its helping a person that seeks to become a victim in their addiction/profit scheme. Its enabling that kind of behavior. Yes slinging vitriol her way is stupid however a reduction in sympathy is to be expected due to the surrounding circumstances. If you want to get a problem to be taken seriously you shouldn't use shitty examples. [QUOTE=Mingebox;49166139]What?[/QUOTE] Its a paper that I have seen multiple articles from that had low quality reporting and clear indication of bias. I'm a political left myself but I dislike low quality content and I don't consider it a very reliable source.

why are ppl still talking about gamergate in this thread

[QUOTE=Murky42;49166521] Its a paper that I have seen multiple articles from that had low quality reporting and clear indication of bias. I'm a political left myself but I dislike low quality content and I don't consider it a very reliable source.[/QUOTE] Well seeing as how it's been accused of both conservative and liberal bias, it must be doing something right.

Penn & Teller may be biased to hell but I love watching it even if I don't take everything for fact. Its just fun to watch

On another topic, holy fucking shit Penn lost weight [IMG]http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/penn-jillette-thin-weightloss-crazy-twitter__oPt.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;49178651]On another topic, holy fucking shit Penn lost weight [IMG]http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/penn-jillette-thin-weightloss-crazy-twitter__oPt.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] that neck tho

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;49178651]On another topic, holy fucking shit Penn lost weight [IMG]http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/penn-jillette-thin-weightloss-crazy-twitter__oPt.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Now he needs to lose that facial hair