• SWAT on a drug raid, shot and killed man with a golf club.
    239 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rock Ironrod;27045662]There's a limit to critical thinking and reaction times though, until we manage to create literal superhuman law enforcement, this can and will happen, as SWAT team members are still only human.[/QUOTE] It's easy to distinguish a gun from a fucking golf club tho, especially when it's held like that. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045666]You think they go into the house and have time to analyze the situation like "Oh he has a golf club, well, time to switch to tazer"? They go there and are ready for someone to jump out of the closet with a gun. Too bad this guy brought a stick into a gun fight.[/QUOTE] If they're not able to get out their tazers in a matter of seconds they're obviously not very well trained.
[QUOTE=Monty Pie-thon;27045695]It's easy to distinguish a gun from a fucking golf club tho, especially when it's held like that. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] If they're not able to get out their tazers in a matter of seconds they're obviously not very well trained.[/QUOTE] And in the split second it takes to realise that, no, that's not a gun, someone could have been shot if it were. You are severely over-estimating the abilities of people.
Only in america can people be so stupid. Idiot cops.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045630]Some of you don't understand that he might have been in panic, and thought that the people breaking his door down were robbers. He stood in a defensive pose, and the police didn't have to shoot him several times, because he was of no threat to them, and the SWAT should have recognized he had a stick or club. Seriously, what sort of gun do you hold like that?[/QUOTE] Yes, robbers that dress as members of SWAT and loudly announce their presence in the middle of the night.
[QUOTE=Neddy;27045728]Only in america can people be so stupid. Idiot cops.[/QUOTE] You should see the cops in Victoria, Australia.
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045639]If someone would look at me with golf club raised I would see them as a threat to my health. And I think the SWAT team is instructed to shoot three times. I might be wrong, but I think it was like that.[/QUOTE] Well then, you obviously don't understand the importance of body language. He was more in a stance of 'get close to me and I'll hit you'. But let's ignore that, let's say the officers simply misunderstood it. But he obviously held a stick, so he would have to hit the officer on his metal helmet, bulletproof vest, etc. if he had bad intentions, which wouldn't do any damage at all.
[QUOTE=Monty Pie-thon;27045695]It's easy to distinguish a gun from a fucking golf club tho, especially when it's held like that. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] If they're not able to get out their tazers in a matter of seconds they're obviously not very well trained.[/QUOTE] Oh c'mon, please be reasonable. If you'd be put into that same situation and asked to taze him if he had a less than lethal weapon and kill if he had a gun. Would you really be that fast? I doubt it. These are professionals, not robots.
[QUOTE=Neddy;27045728]Only in america can people be so stupid. Idiot cops.[/QUOTE] Because this totally doesn't happen anywhere else. :rolleyes:
I'm with the cops on this one. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045630]Some of you don't understand that he might have been in panic, and thought that the people breaking his door down were robbers. He stood in a defensive pose, and the police didn't have to shoot him several times, because he was of no threat to them, and the SWAT should have recognized he had a stick or club. Seriously, what sort of gun do you hold like that?[/QUOTE] Police Search Warrant!
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045760]Well then, you obviously don't understand the importance of body language. He was more in a stance of 'get close to me and I'll hit you'. But let's ignore that, let's say the officers simply misunderstood it. But he obviously held a stick, so he would have to hit the officer on his metal helmet, bulletproof vest, etc. if he had bad intentions, which wouldn't do any damage at all.[/QUOTE] It could've been a Katana. It's stupid to argue about this, because you can't see how they saw it when going in. It was thin and shiny. Could be easily taken for a sword. It would be different if it was a driver club and not a putter or pitcher.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;27045736]Yes, robbers that dress as members of SWAT and loudly announce their presence in the middle of the night.[/QUOTE] He wouldn't know how they were dressed, if they shot him as soon as soon he came out. Maybe he didn't understand them because they were breaking his door down (in the middle of ther night), but they still could've tasered him. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045789]It could've been a Katana. It's stupid to argue about this, because you can't see how they saw it when going in. It was thin and shiny. Could be easily taken for a sword. It would be different if it was a driver club and not a putter or pitcher.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it could have been a sword for them, but no matter what they saw, or if they were full of adrenaline, or whatever, they still shot and killed a man who had no dangerous weapon.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045791]He wouldn't know how they were dressed, if they shot him as soon as soon he came out. Maybe he didn't understand them because they were breaking his door down (in the middle of ther night), but they still could've tasered him.[/QUOTE] He obviously had something to hide (drugs maybe?), because he came out like a fucking idiot even though they SHOUTED PRETTY LOUD THAT "HEY DUMBASS WERE COPS". You people only blame the SWAT, because they shot him. The victim brought this onto himself. If he would've handled the situation differently he would be now getting bum raped in the local prison. Don't know which is better, bum rape or death, but you get the point (nah).
If I heard "Police Search Warrant!", grabbing a weapon wouldn't exactly be my first thought. Plus he sorta just jumped out at them.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045791]He wouldn't know how they were dressed, if they shot him as soon as soon he came out. Maybe he didn't understand them because they were breaking his door down (in the middle of ther night), but they still could've tasered him. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] Yeah, it could have been a sword for them, but no matter what they saw, or if they were full of adrenaline, or whatever, they still shot and killed a man who had no dangerous weapon.[/QUOTE] What thing in this world isn't a dangerous weapon? I could kill you with a pacifier if I tried hard enough.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045791]He wouldn't know how they were dressed, if they shot him as soon as soon he came out. Maybe he didn't understand them because they were breaking his door down (in the middle of ther night), but they still could've tasered him.[/QUOTE] Agreed, and you're over-estimating the guy's abiltiy to take in what is happening within a few seconds of being abruptly awaken in the middle of the night.
[QUOTE=Monty Pie-thon;27045842]Agreed, and you're over-estimating the guy's abiltiy to take in what is happening within a few seconds of being abruptly awaken in the middle of the night.[/QUOTE] And you over-estimated the SWAT teams ability to have fucking inhumane reflexes.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045791]He wouldn't know how they were dressed, if they shot him as soon as soon he came out. Maybe he didn't understand them because they were breaking his door down (in the middle of ther night), but they still could've tasered him. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] Yeah, it could have been a sword for them, but no matter what they saw, or if they were full of adrenaline, or whatever, they still shot and killed a man who had no dangerous weapon.[/QUOTE] If he had enough time to arm himself with a golf club and jump out from behind a corner he knew they were the fucking police way before that point.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045791] Yeah, it could have been a sword for them, but no matter what they saw, or if they were full of adrenaline, or whatever, they still shot and killed a man who had no dangerous weapon.[/QUOTE] Noone's arguing otherwise. We realise he was killed and that it's regretful. What we [I]are[/I] arguing is whether it was justified. It was a mistake that he was killed, and I say it was a justified mistake.
The SWAT team were unlawful. The distance between them and him meant he was well out of their reach (it clearly wasn't a gun was it?) and with their ranged weapons they should have been able to just rush him in the distance they had. There is a lot to take into account over just 'Man shot by SWAT'. You have to count previous weapons training, heat of the moment etc. Maybe because there was a team of them, they all did the same thing, adn if there was only one he would have been tackled. That's why I'm going with unlawful, as you can't really be more specific than that. You can't really say 'it's a justified mistake' because we've seen what happens and it wasn't justified at all. The guy had a gold club, and they shot him three times from a distance where (golfclub or not) he couldn't have hit them first. It's not really justified when you take into account everything else they should have done in the time and distance.
[QUOTE=Monty Pie-thon;27045842]Agreed, and you're over-estimating the guy's abiltiy to take in what is happening within a few seconds of being abruptly awaken in the middle of the night.[/QUOTE] Bullshit. He knew who they were. If he had been abruptly woken up as you so seem to think he was he wouldn't have had time to arm himself.
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045857]And you over-estimated the SWAT teams ability to have fucking inhumane reflexes.[/QUOTE] Not really, if 1 couldn't pull their tazer out fast enough he could easily wrestle him down, and if he couldn't obviously someone would jump in to fucking help. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=chunkymonkey;27045878]Bullshit. He knew who they were. If he had been abruptly woken up as so seem to think he was he wouldn't have had time to arm himself.[/QUOTE] You never know, detail hasn't been released as to where the golf club was.
[QUOTE=Memobot;27045877]The SWAT team were unlawful. The distance between them and him meant he was well out of their reach (it clearly wasn't a gun was it?) and with their ranged weapons they should have been able to just rush him in the distance they had.[/QUOTE] The fact that we're already debating the reaction times of both parties aside, are you saying they should have rushed into melee distance [I]because he was holding a melee weapon?[/I]
[QUOTE=Monty Pie-thon;27045891]Not really, if 1 couldn't pull their tazer out fast enough he could easily wrestle him down, and if he couldn't obviously someone would jump in to fucking help.[/QUOTE] What if he was a bait and there was another guy with a shotgun around the corner? What would the wrestling cops do then? Piss him in half?
[QUOTE=Monty Pie-thon;27045891]Not really, if 1 couldn't pull their tazer out fast enough he could easily wrestle him down, and if he couldn't obviously someone would jump in to fucking help.[/QUOTE] Dumb.
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045824]He obviously had something to hide (drugs maybe?), because he came out like a fucking idiot even though they SHOUTED PRETTY LOUD THAT "HEY DUMBASS WERE COPS". You people only blame the SWAT, because they shot him. The victim brought this onto himself. If he would've handled the situation differently he would be now getting bum raped in the local prison. Don't know which is better, bum rape or death, but you get the point (nah).[/QUOTE] I would still want to check up to be sure it's the police, before I throw myself on the floor, and give myself up. I wouldn't jump out, sure, though the guy probably didn't think about it too much, because he wasn't trained to do that. Also, innocent until proven guilty, plus being alive is [i]always[/i] better than dying .
"Oh look the a heavily armed SWAT detachment is in my house, I better run at them with a golf club" The dumb fucker couldn't have honestly expected things to turn out well, I mean he is kind of responsible for his own downfall.
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045857]And you over-estimated the SWAT teams ability to have fucking inhumane reflexes.[/QUOTE] It's part of their job to be able to react quickly.
Well shit after all these years I never knew Have an informative
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045913]What if he was a bait and there was another guy with a shotgun around the corner? What would the wrestling cops do then? Piss him in half?[/QUOTE] They obviously would have used their superhuman reflexes to deal with him! Didn't you know that members of SWAT must be able to un-holster their secondary weapon while holding their primary weapon in a fraction of a second!
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27045959]It's part of their job to be able to react quickly.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rock Ironrod;27045662]There's a limit to critical thinking and reaction times though, until we manage to create literal superhuman law enforcement, this can and will happen, as SWAT team members are still only human.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hullu V3;27045761] These are professionals, not robots.[/QUOTE]
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