I also like how she's disabled likes and comments on her videos, as well as publicly viewable channel comments. Because she's afraid of hearing any sort of minor to major criticism of her ideas. It's basically someone running around in public, spouting bullshit, and playing the 'La-La-La!' game every time someone responds.
[editline]April 7th, 2014[/editline]
Also wasn't there this interview where she basically admitted to never having played video games, even though that's what half of her arguments and rants for feminism are based off of?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44483781]i'm not talking about every badass female character, i'm talking about the ones where they could easily be mistaken for a typical male character if you just replace them on screen. and yeah my choice of words was pretty terrible tho
there are plenty of female characters that are [I]women[/I] and also badass, like virtually every female on avatar: the last airbender (animated, but still valid), ripley from the first two alien movies, and jodie foster in silence of the lambs come to my mind instantly. these characters keep their femininity (having feelings, being in relationships with dudes) while also doing cool shit. not just a BEEFY MARINE, which in and of itself is a boring and flawed character type.[/QUOTE]
Despite your definition of femininity having all kinds of issues, you're very close to the actual problem. It is a boring character archetype to have a wisecracking tough guy like the entire cast of the Expendables, and it's not adding anything if you make the character female, but if it's a shit character anyway then why do you expect them to write it better when they're female?
They're poorly written characters meant to carry a series of action scenes, and unless you think masculinity is solely about fighting, shooting and wise-cracking then they're the same shit characters male or female. They have a place in these shit movies and you take that in stride, because men don't complain about the stupid and simplistic male characters in a lot of chick flicks.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44483836]In a lot of cases, yeah, at least in stories with good narrative.
In stupid action movies I don't really think it matters that much because they're not a paragon of cinematography anyways, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have more representation. Since that's the case, I don't see they we can't just arbitrarily change up an all white all male cast into something else for the sake of representation. Like, would anyone really give a shit if 2014's "4 wise-cracking male shoot gun mans action explosion movie" had an entirely black cast? I hope not.[/QUOTE]
You're all over the fucking place. It's bad if they rewrite characters to only change their gender or skin colour, but they should deliberately make multiple characters not white males just to bring a bit of diversity? How about you just go away and try to think of what the ideal scenario actually looks like with as few contradictions as possible and report back.
This is why feminazis like this bitch give feminists a bad rep. She used both Reservoir Dogs and Up as examples when they're movies that don't need female leads and Up has a strong female presence anyways.
A question I've had about the bechdel test is does a conversation between two women that happens to pertain to a man automatically fail the test? What about the content of the conversation? What if the film is a film about two sisters and their abusive father, obviously it would pass the test if there was even one conversation about anything else, but my question is if they didn't talk about anything else, does the simple existence of a man in their world being so impactful to their lives automatically negate them as potentially strong characters?
[QUOTE=Cl0cK;44483885]Some films passes this test and are still terribly sexist... For example: Suckerpunch.
But I think the point is to show there's very little female characters in movies in general and there should be more.[/QUOTE]
I'm not too concerned about female representation because it doesn't need to be a proper 50-50. More importantly if you look at how much of the paperback market is in romance for women then it's obvious this kind of under-representation stems from who the audience is and what they want rather than some greater social oppression.
[editline]8th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;44483994]A question I've had about the bechdel test is does a conversation between two women that happens to pertain to a man automatically fail the test? What about the content of the conversation? What if the film is a film about two sisters and their abusive father, obviously it would pass the test if there was even one conversation about anything else, but my question is if they didn't talk about anything else, does the simple existence of a man in their world being so impactful to their lives automatically negate them as potentially strong characters?[/QUOTE]
It's a stupid simple test like measuring your finger length to work out if you're gay or autistic. It ignores context, narrative structure, and common sense most of the time and should only ever be used as a starting point or a thought exercise. Don't put much if any faith in how accurate it is.
[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;44483947]This is why feminazis like this bitch give feminists a bad rep. She used both Reservoir Dogs and Up as examples when they're movies that don't need female leads and Up has a strong female presence anyways.[/QUOTE]
"feminazis like this bitch"
lmao
get a fucking grip - people like you are exactly why we need people like her
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44483857]this is one of her 2009 videos so no duh they're lower quality
and please hold the "hurr hurr they're not quality right now!!" zinger because everyone can see it coming[/QUOTE]
I said "every" one of her videos. Not just this one.
This is not the only one I've watched. Reeaad.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44483836]In a lot of cases, yeah, at least in stories with good narrative.
[/QUOTE]
But there are many elements of society and existence that are specific to being a women. Why should film or any other medium be restricted from using these subjects? Taking a male character and reversing his gender hardly constitutes a good female character and throws away alot of potential for bringing up societal problems specific to women.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42783408]The Bechdels test isn't exactly a good indicator of how well women are represented , Lord of the Rings has a few influential females, like Éowyn and those elves but since its basically a medieval war setting it makes complete sense for women to not be equally represented.[/QUOTE]
Being able to set up a sexist society while still portraying women as people shouldn't be something thats thrown aside as sexist. Instead of using this list checking method you should just analyze the film in more depth.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;44483997]
It's a stupid simple test like measuring your finger length to work out if you're gay or autistic. It ignores context, narrative structure, and common sense most of the time and should only ever be used as a starting point or a thought exercise. Don't put much if any faith in how accurate it is.[/QUOTE]
it's more or less a question for those that support the test to understand how far it goes or how little context means
[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;44483947]This is why feminazis like this bitch give feminists a bad rep. She used both Reservoir Dogs and Up as examples when they're movies that don't need female leads and Up has a strong female presence anyways.[/QUOTE]
"feminazis like this bitch"?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44483781]i'm not talking about every badass female character, i'm talking about the ones where they could easily be mistaken for a typical male character if you just replace them on screen. and yeah my choice of words was pretty terrible tho
there are plenty of female characters that are [I]women[/I] and also badass, like virtually every female on avatar: the last airbender (animated, but still valid), ripley from the first two alien movies, and jodie foster in silence of the lambs come to my mind instantly. these characters keep their femininity (having feelings, being in relationships with dudes) while also doing cool shit. not just a BEEFY MARINE, which in and of itself is a boring and flawed character type.[/QUOTE]
Aren't the kind of "differences" you're talking about socially constructed?
[editline]v[/editline]
if not just straight up sexist
I mean, I don't mean to be offensive, but saying "women are emotional" just sounds like something a 19th century chauvinist would say, as well as implying that men somehow aren't
[QUOTE=CAPT Opp4;44483914]I also like how she's disabled likes and comments on her videos, as well as publicly viewable channel comments. Because she's afraid of hearing any sort of minor to major criticism of her ideas. It's basically someone running around in public, spouting bullshit, and playing the 'La-La-La!' game every time someone responds.[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/10303-The-Great-Debate][IMG]http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/472/472870.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44484207]"feminazis like this bitch"?[/QUOTE]
He differentiates between feminist and feminazi? Feminazi is a derogatory term for radical feminists who go beyond supporting equal rights and treatment for women in society.
Anita is more of an uninformed cheat trying to profit off of a hot button issue.
Lol did she really put Shawshank Redemption in her list? A movie about an all-male prison without two women talking to one another? What a shock!
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44484335]He differentiates between feminist and feminazi? Feminazi is a derogatory term for radical feminists who go beyond supporting equal rights and treatment for women in society.[/QUOTE]
Feminazi isn't just a derogatory term, it's straight up right wing rhetoric — after all it comes from Rush Limbaugh. When Rush Limbaugh is a survivor of an organized plot of mass-extermination by the hands of the ~feminist illuminati~, he can make that comparison. in the meantime, the comparison remains the gravest of insults to those who actually lived through the Holocaust or are related to people that did
[editline]8th April 2014[/editline]
basically what i'm saying is that the people who use that word non-ironically are straight up morons
[QUOTE=godfatherk;44480370][MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLF6sAAMb4s[/MEDIA]
this video has likes and comments disabled hmm I wonder why.[/QUOTE]
probably because when there were comments available there were shitloads of threats of violence rape death, and rampant sexism, and every video with her in it is dislike brigaded?
[editline]8th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44484335]He differentiates between feminist and feminazi? Feminazi is a derogatory term for radical feminists who go beyond supporting equal rights and treatment for women in society.
Anita is more of an uninformed cheat trying to profit off of a hot button issue.[/QUOTE]
"for radical feminists who go beyond supporting equal rights and treatment for women in society"
examples now
further examples in relevance to Anita.
Also, this wasn't a hot button issue in the gaming community until Tropes vs Women, so that's a BS excuse. You can't blame her for exploiting the issue that she brought to our attention. What was the overlap before? TAA?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;44484052]"feminazis like this bitch"
lmao
get a fucking grip - people like you are exactly why we need people like her[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry that I don't like people trying to fix problems that don't exist. Nothing depicted in the video is a true issue in cinema today and the whole "test" is meaningless as it doesn't matter if it passes or fails. Totally pointless.
Every video i see Anita produce is just her stating something. She doesn't try to talk about anything in any real depth.
[QUOTE=Cl0cK;44483885]Some films passes this test and are still terribly sexist... For example: Suckerpunch.
[/QUOTE]
Was it sexist? Idk, I only watched half of it, but it didn't seem to be.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44484600']
Also, this wasn't a hot button issue in the gaming community until Tropes vs Women. What was the overlap before? TAA?[/QUOTE]
She helped bring gender and feminism into the spotlight for gamers. No question about that but for what reason? You see the masses of people willing to give her money and the answer is pretty obvious. It wasn't exactly a flame war starting issue but it was an issue regularly discussed on the internet.
What does TAA have anything to do with gender in gaming being a hot button issue? He's basically doing the same thing but is more obvious about it.
*Well this getting off topic.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44482160]Men still have trouble recognizing that a woman can be complex, can have ambition, good looks, sexuality, erudition, and common sense. A woman can have all those facets, and yet men, in literature, drama, and especially movies, seem to need to simplify women, to polarize them as either the whore or the angel.[/QUOTE]
Except a woman with all those assets would be called pandering
Lets find new stuff to be offended about because we have nothing better to do with our lives right? How about not desperately searching for stuff that makes you feel opressed? If you keep looking for it, of course you are going to find [b]something[/b].
Who the fuck cares what a movie portrays and how? If the movie didn't need women then that's that. If the movie didn't need men that's fine as well.
Where is this argument even going, do you want to shoehorn in retard characters that exist just for the sake of being there?
Gaming Journalism has turned into retarded ranting about stuff no sane person would ever care about. These problems aren't real, they are made up by people who found a medium where they can reach out to the whole world forming groups which make them feel strong. Abusing the Internet to find other crybabies like themselves.
What is the issue here? All the stuff said in this video is purely interpretation there are no facts it's mindless blabbering about movies opressing women.
[QUOTE=WhyNott;44485163]Was it sexist? Idk, I only watched half of it, but it didn't seem to be.[/QUOTE]It had hot chicks so it is sexist. We know normal women are fat and ugly.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44485230]She helped bring gender and feminism into the spotlight for gamers. No question about that but for what reason? You see the masses of people willing to give her money and the answer is pretty obvious. It wasn't exactly a flame war starting issue but it was an issue regularly discussed on the internet.
What does TAA have anything to do with gender in gaming being a hot button issue? He's basically doing the same thing but is more obvious about it.
*Well this getting off topic.[/QUOTE]
Because they support her cause?
I'm not sure what you want? Should she be a philanthropist and do this out of charity?
Would it be better if she didn't take any money? would the points be any more valid?
It's not as if she just pulled this out of her ass to make money, there was years of research into her studies before this and quite a gap between making TvW and her thesis which was on the same subject.
Honestly this whole argument about "oh but shes making money!!!!" Yea because the obvious thing here was that she planned all along to make lots of money by criticizing something with one of the most hostile fangroups and no previous support. We all know that the best business plan is to start a business in a neighborhood with no potential customers and a likelihood of getting molotoved.
[editline]8th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;44485025]I'm sorry that I don't like people trying to fix problems that don't exist. Nothing depicted in the video is a true issue in cinema today and the whole "test" is meaningless as it doesn't matter if it passes or fails. Totally pointless.[/QUOTE]
Bullshit.
The test clearly shows that as a society we aren't portraying women as being full persons, just objects or catalysts for a story. If we can't create women characters who have emotions independent existences from men, or some other significant interaction then it clearly shows what we think of women as a society. When the [I]vast[/I] majority of films can't have two female characters talk about something other than a male character then what is that saying?
Of course there are exceptions, you can have a developed and personable female character without them being focused on a man, but that's just as unlikely.
I have a serious problem with this women, not because I'm like anti-feminism or anything, just because the way her facts and arguments are laid out and how she seems to inject feminism into things in way that doesn't make sense. Oh yes, Braveheart, a movie that takes place in a setting that makes it really difficult for it to pass the Bechdel test. Forcing it to pass this test would detract from the main plot, which revolves around a male dominated historical event. It's almost a form of censorship, saying that movies MUST fulfill certain qualifications to be deemed socially acceptable
Also what about all the movies that.. do pass this test? They all don't have to pass it, different movies are for different people. Also she lost all credibility when she did that video where she raised like tens of thousands of dollars for "research" when all the sources bordered on pseudo-science. Pretty scam-y
Anyone who takes this woman seriously actually insults the idea of feminism, is detached from reality, and has a strong hate complex towards the way society and people work.
[QUOTE=The Combine;44487045]Lets find new stuff to be offended about because we have nothing better to do with our lives right? How about not desperately searching for stuff that makes you feel opressed? If you keep looking for it, of course you are going to find [b]something[/b].
Who the fuck cares what a movie portrays and how? If the movie didn't need women then that's that. If the movie didn't need men that's fine as well.
Where is this argument even going, do you want to shoehorn in retard characters that exist just for the sake of being there?
Gaming Journalism has turned into retarded ranting about stuff no sane person would ever care about. These problems aren't real, they are made up by people who found a medium where they can reach out to the whole world forming groups which make them feel strong. Abusing the Internet to find other crybabies like themselves.
What is the issue here? All the stuff said in this video is purely interpretation there are no facts it's mindless blabbering about movies opressing women.[/QUOTE]
The point is that we naturally portray men as complex central roles because we naturally understand men to be complex and central to our lives. The fact that the number of complex female characters is so low is an indicator of the way we as a society view women. When we have female characters most of the time its because they exist only as an aside, to promote, or to catalyze the main male character and the story about the main male character. This isn't about "movies oppressing women" and you damn well don't know what this is about as you've made obvious. If you think this is gaming journalism's problem, or you think this is just some people trying really really hard to feel oppressed, then you're delusional. This is a continuation of a struggle, a philosophy, and a considering of a problem that's been going on uninterrupted for a long time, it's just now been brought to your attention. I'm glad that you as a white male in a rich nation feel as though you can determine when the society that benefits you is and isn't oppressing or exploiting women. We of course need a man to speak for women on this issue.
[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;44485025]Nothing depicted in the video is a true issue in cinema today and the whole "test" is meaningless as it doesn't matter if it passes or fails. Totally pointless.[/QUOTE]
Nothing? Is it not true that most action film protagonists are male? Is it not true that certain genres try to appeal to certain audiences by using a specific gender more often? I'm not a fan of Anita but she does have a point
[QUOTE=Glitchman;44487466]I have a serious problem with this women, not because I'm like anti-feminism or anything, just because the way her facts and arguments are laid out and how she seems to inject feminism into things in way that doesn't make sense. Oh yes, Braveheart, a movie that takes place in a setting that makes it really difficult for it to pass the Bechdel test. Forcing it to pass this test would detract from the main plot, which revolves around a male dominated historical event. It's almost a form of censorship, saying that movies MUST fulfill certain qualifications to be deemed socially acceptable
Also what about all the movies that.. do pass this test? They all don't have to pass it, different movies are for different people. Also she lost all credibility when she did that video where she raised like tens of thousands of dollars for "research" when all the sources bordered on pseudo-science. Pretty scam-y
Anyone who takes this woman seriously actually insults the idea of feminism, is detached from reality, and has a strong hate complex towards the way society and people work.[/QUOTE]
The bechdel test is and has been an accepted method for determining general cultural/media biases in favor of men for longer then you've been alive.
There's no censorship here, the point isn't to force every movie to pass the test, the point is to understand how the test is an indicator to how little we as a society interpret women to be anything other than secondary characteristics to a male lead. It's like you didn't even watch the video.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44487550']The bechdel test is and has been an accepted method for determining general cultural/media biases in favor of men for longer then you've been alive.
There's no censorship here, the point isn't to force every movie to pass the test, the point is to understand how the test is an indicator to how little we as a society interpret women to be anything other than secondary characteristics to a male lead. It's like you didn't even watch the video.[/QUOTE]
The thing is society has to change before the movies can, or else you'll have trouble getting the audience to connect with the movies. Most events in real life have "male leads". That's just the way things are. Not saying it should be that way, but for movies to start to pass this test more often that needs to change.
Also, Pretty sure even though since this test was formed in the mid 80's (I was born in 87), it's only really picked up steam in 2013, around the same time that radical feminism started to skew facts and rely on victimization. (this is also reflected in the online community, as the radical feminists are more brought into the spotlight. See Facepunch and Thunderfoot as examples)
Feminism should be based on a strong, positive, forward movement that focuses on gender issues as a whole, not just with women. Males are pressured to act a certain way which also inflicts the injustices on women. Feminism involves a lot more than just women, and ESPECIALLY more than just how many girls talk to each other in film.
All holywood type AAA movies i saw atleast had 1 sex scene in it.
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