[QUOTE=TheJoey;38723022]no, this is fucking bullshit and you know it. the backlash was so bad that he actually eventually was forced to say that he won't be making rape jokes anymore.
there is a huuuuuge hatedom on the internet for pewdiepie. you're just not paying attention to it. hell it washed over FP just a few weeks ago just like the topic of anita sarkeesian does every once in a while.[/QUOTE]
My point isn't what he says, it's what he gets for saying it.
If money is the issue here there are a lot of people making a lot more than Any Sarky for way more dubious reasons.
if the problem was that anita wasn't doing enough to make her issues come to light, then why are you spending so much time talking about her rather than the issues?
[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;38723039]I don't mean to butt into this conversation or anything but I don't really think you have the authority to make calls like that until you know what it's like to be in her position.[/QUOTE]
someone with enough money to have good recording equipment, adequate lighting (which is difficult to achieve without the right amount of cash), adequate makeup, good video editing software, and good ad revenue to create several popular videos on youtube?
you're right. i don't know what its like to have all of that stuff.
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;38723052]wonder if joey got this upset over duke nukem forever[/QUOTE]
no, though i was a bit steamed when i played it and realized they really did waste all of their developer money on cocaine and not making a good game.
[QUOTE=TH89;38723038]Yeah, it could be argued the main reason she has so much money in the first place is because the backlash was so incredibly over the top that it basically made her point for her.[/QUOTE]
I thought her point was that sexism was endemic in games, not gaming culture. It's Tropes vs Women in Games after all. It didn't prove her point, everyone already knew the general gaming community is filled to the brim with shitheads. You shouldn't give her arguement a pass because people were mean to her.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;38723075]someone with enough money to have good recording equipment, adequate lighting (which is difficult to achieve without the right amount of cash), adequate makeup, good video editing software, and good ad revenue to create several popular videos on youtube?
you're right. i don't know what its like to have all of that stuff.[/QUOTE]
Wait are you talking about yourself? I don't see any professionally recorded videos on your account. Maybe I am confused
one is a symptom of the other
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723083]I thought her point was that sexism was endemic in games, not gaming culture. It's Tropes vs Women in Games after all. It didn't prove her point, everyone already knew the general gaming community is filled to the brim with shitheads. You shouldn't give her arguement a pass because people were mean to her.[/QUOTE]
refering to this post
[QUOTE=thisispain;38723067]if the problem was that anita wasn't doing enough to make her issues come to light, then why are you spending so much time talking about her rather than the issues?[/QUOTE]
uh, i just so happen to be at home at the moment? during a time when i'm not supporting my friends at rallies and donating? or doing the things i need to do to survive like working, or doing hobby things like animating.
what i'm doing with my time at 2:30 AM is not any of your concern.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38723067]if the problem was that anita wasn't doing enough to make her issues come to light, then why are you spending so much time talking about her rather than the issues?[/QUOTE]
Everyone with a brain already knows there are issues with gender equality in games, it's old hat. It's brought up all the time. So far she hasn't brought anything new to the table except the massive backlash against her.
Those without a brain, of course, either were oblivious to the whole thing or were on the front lines of the hate storm.
[QUOTE=TH89;38723091]Wait are you talking about yourself? I don't see any professionally recorded videos on your account. Maybe I am confused[/QUOTE]
i'm talking about anita, aka "someone in her position".
While I am totally disgusted with the reaction that the online community made, I think the entire premise of her "documentary series" is incredibly masturbatory and a complete cash-grab that was guaranteed payment.
Yeah, most women in video games are designed with hot bodies and beautiful faces but that's the same thing that happens EVERYWHERE.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;38723107]i'm talking about anita, aka "someone in her position".[/QUOTE]
he was referring to the way you ended your post
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Daniel M;38723109]While I am totally disgusted with the reaction that the online community made, I think the entire premise of her "documentary series" is incredibly masturbatory and a complete cash-grab that was guaranteed payment.
Yeah, most women in video games are designed with hot bodies and beautiful faces but that's the same thing that happens EVERYWHERE.[/QUOTE]
this post is the same as this post
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723101]Everyone with a brain already knows there are issues with gender equality in games, it's old hat. It's brought up all the time. So far she hasn't brought anything new to the table except the massive backlash against her.
Those without a brain, of course, either were oblivious to the whole thing or were on the front lines of the hate storm.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Daniel M;38723109]incredibly masturbatory and a complete cash-grab
[/QUOTE]
yes congratulations we know you watched that video that used both those terms you are only the 15th person to quote it.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;38723092]one is a symptom of the other
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
refering to this post[/QUOTE]
To a degree, but one doesn't prove her point on the other either. Hell she hasn't even put forward a salient point, just "there are sexist tropes in game", no shit. People being arseholes doesn't validate her views of the content of games. It doesn't invalidate them either.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;38723098]uh, i just so happen to be at home at the moment? during a time when i'm not supporting my friends at rallies and donating? or doing the things i need to do to survive like working, or doing hobby things like animating.
what i'm doing with my time at 2:30 AM is not any of your concern.[/QUOTE]
no that's not what i meant
if the majority of people feel anita was not representing the issues properly, then why are all the comments rooted in her supposed flaws rather than rooted in an understanding of the issues.
instead of using anita as a springboard for continuing understanding while refuting her mistakes, people on the internet are instead attacking her based on random things like being "anti-sex" or "not bringing anything new to the table".
Yeah it does, in a way. It doesn't prove that point, but it is certainly indicative of that being the case at the very least.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723083]I thought her point was that sexism was endemic in games, not gaming culture. It's Tropes vs Women in Games after all. It didn't prove her point, everyone already knew the general gaming community is filled to the brim with shitheads. You shouldn't give her arguement a pass because people were mean to her.[/QUOTE]
Games don't arise in a vacuum, though. Game developers are gamers first and foremost, and the prevailing attitudes in gaming culture determines in large part who makes the next generation of games. The two are very closely related and it'd be hard to make a documentary of the type she's making without talking about gamer culture in general.
Sweet Jesus, She's the type of person who thinks even negative attention is better than no attention.
She should be ignored in order to let actual legitimate people handle it all.
At minimum her priorities are out of whack.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38723135]no that's not what i meant
if the majority of people feel anita was not representing the issues properly, then why are all the comments rooted in her supposed flaws rather than rooted in an understanding of the issues.
instead of using anita as a springboard for continuing understanding while refuting her mistakes, people on the internet are instead attacking her based on random things like being "anti-sex" or "not bringing anything new to the table".[/QUOTE]
another good point. the irony of taking her down the way that most people are, including people in this thread, is that they are not doing much different. If you care so much, it would certainly be in your interest to actually try to expand on her points (while correcting her mistakes) rather than just pointing out what she did wrong and leaving it at that.
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=TH89;38723151]Games don't arise in a vacuum, though. Game developers are gamers first and foremost, and the prevailing attitudes in gaming culture determines in large part who makes the next generation of games. The two are very closely related and it'd be hard to make a documentary of the type she's making without talking about gamer culture in general.[/QUOTE]
exactlyyyyy
[QUOTE=thisispain;38723135]no that's not what i meant
if the majority of people feel anita was not representing the issues properly, then why are all the comments rooted in her supposed flaws rather than rooted in an understanding of the issues.
instead of using anita as a springboard for continuing understanding while refuting her mistakes, people on the internet are instead attacking her based on random things like being "anti-sex" or "not bringing anything new to the table".[/QUOTE]
Hey, I'm not attacking her. I was just telling you why no one is talking about her points, it's because she hasn't brought up anything that wasn't already being discussed. All her points so far are vague because she hasn't made the videos yet.
How, I need you to answer, are we supposed to have a meaningful discussion based on her videos if they are not yet made? Do you have a time machine you're not telling us about?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723125]To a degree, but one doesn't prove her point on the other either. Hell she hasn't even put forward a salient point, just "there are sexist tropes in game", no shit. People being arseholes doesn't validate her views of the content of games. It doesn't invalidate them either.[/QUOTE]
When people bring up the hate it's not to validate or invalidate her points, it's to show how far along the conversation has moved. Like I said earlier, she doesn't even have to produce a series anymore. She could stop right now because she made a different but just as important point about the culture of the gaming community. You can say that it's "old hat" but frankly I've been playing video games for 20 years and I've never been so surprised by the reaction of something like Sarkeesians project.
I hope she releases the series, both for personal curiousity to see if she has used the very tiny amount of constructive criticism she has recieved from her previous work and because it would be dishonest not to do something productive with the money, but honestly at this point I believe it's release would be secondary to all the hatred and vitriol that has been spewed towards her.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;38723075]someone with enough money to have good recording equipment, adequate lighting (which is difficult to achieve without the right amount of cash), adequate makeup, good video editing software, and good ad revenue to create several popular videos on youtube?
you're right. i don't know what its like to have all of that stuff.[/QUOTE]
No I'm just saying that if you're a guy you don't really know what it's like as a woman to go up against (as TH89 said) the misogynistic goliath that is the gaming community. You can act as tough as you want but until you feel the emotional toll that activism has on you from their perspective, you can't really tell women (who, I can assure you, know their predicament way better than some male on an internet forum does) to "do more."
It's like telling a black person that he has to "pick up the slack" in the fight against racism. It's sounds rude and privileged as hell.
[QUOTE=Daniel M;38723109]Yeah, most women in video games are designed with hot bodies and beautiful faces but that's the same thing that happens EVERYWHERE.[/QUOTE]
Therefore...what? It's fine? What are you trying to say?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723171]How, I need you to answer, are we supposed to have a meaningful discussion based on her videos if they are not yet made?[/QUOTE]
that's what i'm wondering!!?
[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;38723179]No I'm just saying that if you're a guy you don't really know what it's like as a woman to go up against (as TH89 said) the misogynistic goliath that is the gaming community. You can act as tough as you want but until you feel the emotional toll that activism has on you from their perspective, you can't really tell women (who, I can assure you, know their predicament way better than some male on an internet forum does) to "do more."
It's like telling a black person that he has to "pick up the slack" in the fight against racism. It's sounds rude and privileged as hell.[/QUOTE]
there's the p word
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;38723188]there's the p word[/QUOTE]
my whole name is a sweltering mess of sexist and chauvinistic verbiage
[QUOTE=TH89;38723151]Games don't arise in a vacuum, though. Game developers are gamers first and foremost, and the prevailing attitudes in gaming culture determines in large part who makes the next generation of games. The two are very closely related and it'd be hard to make a documentary of the type she's making without talking about gamer culture in general.[/QUOTE]
True, but as I've said people being cock heads on the internet does not validate her (as of yet non-existant) points about tropes in games. Someone calling her a cunt doesn't make the Damsel in Distress trope more offensive, it just makes that person a dick.
The people attacking her are also a vocal minority (I fucking hope), so just saying that these people are the gaming community and what they say is all that matters is a straight lie. There are people like you and I who don't want women to be meek, subserviant eye candy. And I would like to think we are in the majority.
ok i guess a good question to ask is why we are on different sides if we agree on what is the principle issue
maybe we're just arguing over nothing and in reality we actually agree which wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened lmao
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723204]True, but as I've said people being cock heads on the internet does not validate her (as of yet non-existant) points about tropes in games. Someone calling her a cunt doesn't make the Damsel in Distress trope more offensive, it just makes that person a dick.
The people attacking her are also a vocal minority (I fucking hope), so just saying that these people are the gaming community and what they say is all that matters is a straight lie. There are people like you and I who don't want women to be meek, subserviant eye candy. And I would like to think we are in the majority.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://kotaku.com/5963528/heres-a-devastating-account-of-the-crap-women-in-the-games-business-have-to-deal-with-in-2012[/url]
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[url]http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/games-with-female-heroes-dont-sell-because-publishers-dont-support-them[/url]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38723172]When people bring up the hate it's not to validate or invalidate her points, it's to show how far along the conversation has moved. Like I said earlier, she doesn't even have to produce a series anymore. She could stop right now because she made a different but just as important point about the culture of the gaming community. You can say that it's "old hat" but frankly I've been playing video games for 20 years and I've never been so surprised by the reaction of something like Sarkeesians project.
I hope she releases the series, both for personal curiousity to see if she has used the very tiny amount of constructive criticism she has recieved from her previous work and because it would be dishonest not to do something productive with the money, but honestly at this point I believe it's release would be secondary to all the hatred and vitriol that has been spewed towards her.[/QUOTE]
You were suprised? I wasn't, maybe a bit shocked at the scale of the thing but I already knew of Sarkesian and her controversial way of presenting her views. I don't think she moved the discussion either, maybe backwards. I mean all we (and by we I mean a surprising amount of naive peope) learned that there are a lot of hate filled people on the internet.
I mean look a youtube, it's dumb retarded arguements no one looks at right? Well those dumb retarded arguements are had by dumb retards who eat Sarkesians' controversy up. I guess a lot of people just have learned to write that stuff off and forgot that real people make that shit, and that it's everywhere.
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;38723210]ok i guess a good question to ask is why we are on different sides if we agree on what is the principle issue
maybe we're just arguing over nothing and in reality we actually agree which wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened lmao[/QUOTE]
This is Facepunch, of course we're arguing over nothing. We're on different sides because you think something constructive could come out of all this, I don't. People are fucking idiots, they have been before, they are now, and they will continue to be. You can't stop morons from being morons, all you can do is shut them up or tune them out.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723240]You were suprised? I wasn't, maybe a bit shocked at the scale of the thing but I already knew of Sarkesian and her controversial way of presenting her views. I don't think she moved the discussion either, maybe backwards. I mean all we (and by we I mean a surprising amount of naive peope) learned that there are a lot of hate filled people on the internet.
I mean look a youtube, it's dumb retarded arguements no one looks at right? Well those dumb retarded arguements are had by dumb retards who eat Sarkesians' controversy up. I guess a lot of people just have learned to write that stuff off and forgot that real people make that shit, and that it's everywhere.
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
This is Facepunch, of course we're arguing over nothing. We're on different sides because you think something constructive could come out of all this, I don't. People are fucking idiots, they have been before, they are now, and they will continue to be. You can't stop morons from being morons, all you can do is shut them up or tune them out.[/QUOTE]
you appear to be a person that hasn't learned anything, still saying that it is a vocal minority speaking out against her from a place of hate
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