[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;38723204]True, but as I've said people being cock heads on the internet does not validate her (as of yet non-existant) points about tropes in games. Someone calling her a cunt doesn't make the Damsel in Distress trope more offensive, it just makes that person a dick.
The people attacking her are also a vocal minority (I fucking hope), so just saying that these people are the gaming community and what they say is all that matters is a straight lie. There are people like you and I who don't want women to be meek, subserviant eye candy. And I would like to think we are in the majority.[/QUOTE]
Well, we're certainly the majority if we include women in that tally.
As far as people in gaming communities, there's a lot of people who will pay lip service to the idea of good representation of women, but when presented with actual specific feminist arguments and issues, will try to dismiss them, or play devil's advocate, or complain that they're being too hostile--basically anything but actually listen and take the points to heart. And I think among dudes, at least, that group is the majority, some of whom may be persuadable, some of whom may not.
Bayonetta is a good example. There is a good case to be made that it's a game that makes a genuine effort to explore sexual empowerment and that it's worthy of praise. I have heard this case made by feminist women. There's ALSO a good case to be made that it's exploitative, that a woman with supermodel proportions who has to become naked in order to attack, whose creation was directed largely by a bunch of dudes, might have some aspects worth criticizing. I have heard this case made by other feminist women. From what I gather, Anita Sarkeesian is making the latter case about that game in particular. Whether you agree or not, it's a viewpoint with a lot to support it, and not remotely a reason to demonize or delegitimize her. That's the kind of thing that most dudes do, though. They'll say "oh yeah I'm all for equality" but if a woman starts raising points they smack them down and get pissed off and dismissive.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;38723265]you appear to be a person that hasn't learned anything, still saying that it is a vocal minority speaking out against her from a place of hate[/QUOTE]
The small piece of me that isn't a shrivelled husk of cynicism hopes that they are, lest it shrivel up and die.
I guess "denial" is one way to approach the issue.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38721109]The video posted in the OP of this thread is pretty important because it shows how vitriolic the gaming community can be.
Honestly at this point she doesn't even have to release tropes vs video games. She could take the money and run while still proving her point about how fucking awful people can be when their favorite form of interactive media is even threatened to be looked at in a critical way by a feminist.[/QUOTE]
If she doesn't do what was said in the backer rewards then Kickstarter can take away the funding somehow.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38723124]yes congratulations we know you watched that video that used both those terms you are only the 15th person to quote it.[/QUOTE]
What video? But seriously there's no way to put it. She wanted to make a video for feminists about feminism and to get "you go girl" type comments. She knew she'd get the money, she knew she'd get the notoriety.
[QUOTE=markg06;38723583]If she doesn't do what was said in the backer rewards then Kickstarter can take away the funding somehow.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure they can't, actually--I remember a Kickstarter rep saying in an interview that they're basically dreading the first massive high-profile ripoff to happen. It basically comes down to whether you trust the person seeking funding, and if you get screwed you have to seek legal recourse outside of Kickstarter.
[QUOTE=TH89;38723606]I'm pretty sure they can't, actually--I remember a Kickstarter rep saying in an interview that they're basically dreading the first massive high-profile ripoff to happen. It basically comes down to whether you trust the person seeking funding, and if you get screwed you have to seek legal recourse outside of Kickstarter.[/QUOTE]
I'm almost certain that's the case, there was a board game that got Kickstarted a bit ago and the person who made it kind of went insane and said that the Sun was telling her to stop and all this insane nonsense but I remember reading that it's possible to get your cash back if they don't do the backing rewards.
What do you call it when a Kickstarter made by men raises more money than they initially asked for?
"A massive success!"
What do you call it when a Kickstarter made by a [I]feminist[/I] woman raises more money than she initially asked for?
[B]ULTIMATE MISANDRY[/B]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;38724088]What do you call it when a Kickstarter made by men raises more money than they initially asked for?
"A massive success!"
What do you call it when a Kickstarter made by a [I]feminist[/I] woman raises more money than she initially asked for?
[B]ULTIMATE MISANDRY[/B][/QUOTE]
and what do you call it when a Kickstarter made by a women raises more money than she initially asked for?
"A massive success!"
fucking male cis scum. Let's run this shit to the ground sistahs!!
rate dumb dori
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;38724088]What do you call it when a Kickstarter made by men raises more money than they initially asked for?
"A massive success!"
What do you call it when a Kickstarter made by a [I]feminist[/I] woman raises more money than she initially asked for?
[B]ULTIMATE MISANDRY[/B][/QUOTE]
Ehh, depends. There's a lot of really shitty kickstarters out there, that get way to much money. There's just a difference between an overfunded board game, and something controversial - because that's what Anita is. The problem isn't that she's supposedly feminist (which I don't really agree with), it's that she's gonna make a documentary as a feminist, and not a journalist. I don't think it's going to be objective, but more of a way for her to enforce her own views and opinions. I remember a video (that has quite a few views) talking about it and another documentary on kickstarter. The other documentary was about bronies, and the kickstarters explicity said in there introduction that their documentary was about showing that bronies are cool. The problem is really, that neither of these documentaries would provide any new knowledge, and would really only help to confirm people in their views they already have, not challenge them. This documentary would not be for people in general, but rather the group of people she has already agreeing with her.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;38724279]it's that she's gonna make a documentary as a feminist, and not a journalist. I don't think it's going to be objective, but more of a way for her to enforce her own views and opinions.[/QUOTE]
um thats sort of the point.
she has an opinion on the way things are and she wants other people to hear that opinion. not every documentary needs to be "objective" or "unbiased". reality itself has a bias and we are all arguing over what it is.
documentarians are allowed to have opinions and express those opinions like everyone else. the problem is when someone makes the claim to be unbiased while secretly pushing an agenda forward.
the criticism should be aimed at whether the documentary was well-researched, whether she takes into account opposing views and opinions when analyzing work, and whether she expresses her analysis in an articulate and concise manner.
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;38725010]What do you call it when a man begs the internet for videogames?
Idiotic!
What do you call it when a woman begs the internet for videogames?
Idiotic![/QUOTE]
good thing that didnt happen in this case
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38726358]um thats sort of the point.
she has an opinion on the way things are and she wants other people to hear that opinion. not every documentary needs to be "objective" or "unbiased". reality itself has a bias and we are all arguing over what it is.
documentarians are allowed to have opinions and express those opinions like everyone else. the problem is when someone makes the claim to be unbiased while secretly pushing an agenda forward.
the criticism should be aimed at whether the documentary was well-researched, whether she takes into account opposing views and opinions when analyzing work, and whether she expresses her analysis in an articulate and concise manner.
[editline]6th December 2012[/editline]
good thing that didnt happen in this case[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying every documentary ever is unbiased, but rather that I have no hopes for her to even take other views into account at all. You can have an opinion on a matter and still show everything to the viewer, I just don't think it's going to be the case. I think it's rather gonna be her talking about what she thinks about something - maybe without even showing proper footage or context - and have no one else debating that view. I hope I'm wrong, but I think that's what going to happen.
[QUOTE=Thaard;38724191]fucking male cis scum. Let's run this shit to the ground sistahs!!
rate dumb dori[/QUOTE]
it's probably worth noting that feminists like this don't actually exist
[QUOTE=Cone;38726792]it's probably worth noting that feminists like this don't actually exist[/QUOTE]
it's worth noting that 50% of my posts are just bollocks. I just like to piss off Dori.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply / flaming" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;38726683]I'm not saying every documentary ever is unbiased, but rather that I have no hopes for her to even take other views into account at all. You can have an opinion on a matter and still show everything to the viewer, I just don't think it's going to be the case. I think it's rather gonna be her talking about what she thinks about something - maybe without even showing proper footage or context - and have no one else debating that view. I hope I'm wrong, but I think that's what going to happen.[/QUOTE]
So, what, she should have a section that is like "on the other hand, maybe video games aren't sexist at all and women need to shut up"
If I was going to make a documentary about evolution I wouldn't need to include a bunch of stuff about creationism just to be "unbiased," the argument to moderation is a fallacy.
[QUOTE=Cone;38726792]it's probably worth noting that feminists like this don't actually exist[/QUOTE]
I used to think that until I saw that SH article about the protest they had at that university...
Huh, Dori really is dedicated for someone who doesn't want to give their opinion, he's been rating people dumb for over [I]19 hours[/I].
That's fucking dedication right there.
[QUOTE=Thaard;38727652]it's worth noting that 50% of my posts are just bollocks. I just like to piss off Dori.[/QUOTE]
pff you're doing too much work
just say something bad about jun togawa
Jun Togawa has a less than appealing visage, is generally a mediocre artist and is too alternative for the general public!!!
[QUOTE=TH89;38727758]If I was going to make a documentary about evolution I wouldn't need to include a bunch of stuff about creationism just to be "unbiased," the argument to moderation is a fallacy.[/QUOTE]
Yeah.
Also, expecting a woman to be unbiased in a situation like this is silly anyway: part of the whole idea of feminist critique is predicated on the notion that women's view of the world is going to be inherently different from men's, so for men to say "you need to look at it from our perspective!" is stupid.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
