[QUOTE=Cpt. Cakes;50644936]Also, [url]http://www.tf2lobby.com[/url] was taken down due to unlawful gambling. Not by Valve though.[/QUOTE]
If I recall correctly, that's just a joke put up by the site's creator after the site died.
TBH, I don't really care about the gambling sites, but the non-disclosure of the youtubers/owners is scummy as hell.
Hey look, both owners gambling against each other.
[thumb]https://i.redd.it/8e7ue6tse87x.jpg[/thumb]
[QUOTE=Makzu;50644361]When it comes to valve, they usually get something done. Eventually.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmhtaCFXEAEBrti.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Looks like it's now back to normal.
[quote]UPDATE 10.00pm: Valve has removed its message warning users away from CS:GO Lotto, the gambling site at the centre of today's controversy.
The block was placed by a team of volunteer moderators brought in by another mod, KillahInstinct, to help with vetting the recent influx of CS:GO gambling sites. KillahInstinct has now reversed their decision.
"The URL blacklist is generally only used for malicious links and blocks links throughout Steam everywhere and therefore used with extreme caution," KillahInstinct wrote on the CS:GO subreddit. "Malicious links", he then clarified, were those deemed to be "malware, phishing, scam sites".
"For the record: I am not commenting if the site is bad, morally wrong etc - I am just saying that I haven't seen evidence of that it's malicious in the way that it should be before we add something to a global filter."[/quote]
[url]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-04-youtube-stars-criticised-after-it-emerges-they-owned-gambling-site-they-promoted[/url]
lol
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Z31diYN.gif[/IMG]
[video=youtube;CEQscWWI6Gw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQscWWI6Gw[/video]
This happened.
[video=youtube;k7t44viMGt4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7t44viMGt4[/video]
This was also kind of a shitty video on the topic.
[IMG]http://puu.sh/pQA80/122d0e85d7.png[/IMG]
Heres some more shit:
[IMG]http://puu.sh/pQAhj/e7e8f6c216.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://puu.sh/pQ8wT/b9f8042dec.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UnXm45g.png[/IMG]
Some CSI shit going on:
[IMG]https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwOi8vcHV1LnNoL3BRZVJwLzFiMDQwYTg2M2MucG5nIn0.yvyqmoE6EJMdEhsJwvcHrBjpdHQ.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50647263][IMG]http://puu.sh/pQAhj/e7e8f6c216.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
christ on a fucking bike.
fuck this guy and his entire shitty empire. this is not the lifestyle of someone who made it big on youtube through passion, this is the lifestyle of someone who abused and used people via addiction without remorse.
fucking fuck this guy.
[video=youtube;OL-0MNEcELU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-0MNEcELU[/video]
If you follow CSGO you should be pretty familiar with 3kliksphilip, here's his piece.
[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50647263]
[IMG]http://puu.sh/pQAhj/e7e8f6c216.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Reading that made me feel like throwing up.
[QUOTE=Vilusia;50642331]God this video reminded me I need to stop csgo gambling. The last 5 month's I've put $100s of dollars into it. Actually that might be over $1000 now. God damnit I have an addiction.[/QUOTE]
i am glad that 72 hour notice thing happen because i sure is shit aint putting my phone on steam and now i don't get into csgo so much anymore hoping to get a good drop
Had the [URL="https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Mann-Conomy_Update"]Mann-Conomy Update[/URL] been kept in the bin all of this would've never of happened.
All the blame for this now popped boil can be put on [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanis_Varoufakis"]this guy.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;50648550]Had the [URL="https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Mann-Conomy_Update"]Mann-Conomy Update[/URL] been kept in the bin all of this would've never of happened.
All the blame for this now popped boil can be put on [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanis_Varoufakis"]this guy.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Fucking Yanis Varoufakis, fucks Valve, fucks Greece, probably moving onto bigger things next
[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50647263][IMG]http://puu.sh/pQAhj/e7e8f6c216.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
New age mobster shit.
Fuck, these people are corrupt to the bone.
I don't believe Valve has culpability here, and I feel like H3H3 is misrepresenting some facts.
First, no you cannot sell CS:GO skins on Steam for real money. You are only allowed to sell it for in-store credit. I cannot take my CS:GO money from Steam and use it towards the down payment of a house.
Second, you need to be at least 18 to have a credit card. Kids should not have access to it. In the first place, the kids needed the credit card from their parents in order to buy the M-Rated game, and in the second they needed access to the credit card in order to access the gambling site. And now parents are trying to sue... Valve?!? This is like giving your credit card to your kid and letting them on vegasslotsonline or something, and then suing... the bank that supplied the money. Valve has absolutely no responsibility here. The credit card is the age verification, this is all against their ToS, and the guilty parties here are third parties from Valve. If anyone here should be prosecuted, it's the gambling sites and not Valve.
I'm fully expecting the case agaisnt Valve to go nowhere. The people suing don't have a leg to stand on.
/armchairlawyer
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648749]I don't believe Valve has culpability here, and I feel like H3H3 is misrepresenting some facts.
First, no you cannot sell CS:GO skins on Steam for real money. You are only allowed to sell it for in-store credit. I cannot take my CS:GO money from Steam and use it towards the down payment of a house.
Second, you need to be at least 18 to have a credit card. Kids should not have access to it. In the first place, the kids needed the credit card from their parents in order to buy the M-Rated game, and in the second they needed access to the credit card in order to access the gambling site. And now parents are trying to sue... Valve?!? This is like giving your credit card to your kid and letting them on vegasslotsonline or something, and then suing... the bank that supplied the money. Valve has absolutely no responsibility here. The credit card is the age verification, this is all against their ToS, and the guilty parties here are third parties from Valve. If anyone here should be prosecuted, it's the gambling sites and not Valve.
I'm fully expecting the case agaisnt Valve to go nowhere. The people suing don't have a leg to stand on.
/armchairlawyer[/QUOTE]
I have a debit card and I'm not 18... and besides, info is often saved by accident. That may or may not be their fault but the point stands that it is easy to access gambling without being 18.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648749]I don't believe Valve has culpability here, and I feel like H3H3 is misrepresenting some facts.
First, no you cannot sell CS:GO skins on Steam for real money. You are only allowed to sell it for in-store credit. I cannot take my CS:GO money from Steam and use it towards the down payment of a house.[/QUOTE]
[media]https://twitter.com/h3h3productions/status/750132852256157696[/media]
[QUOTE=Makol;50648817][media]https://twitter.com/h3h3productions/status/750132852256157696[/media][/QUOTE]
Nothing I said in my post was wrong. You cannot use Valve's official service (Steam) to sell skins for real money. You must first go through a third party illegal gambling site that explicitly goes against Valve's ToS.
[editline]5th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50648786]I have a debit card and I'm not 18... and besides, info is often saved by accident. That may or may not be their fault but the point stands that it is easy to access gambling without being 18.[/QUOTE]
This is true. Do other online gambling sites have other forms of age verification that I am not aware of?
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648838]Nothing I said in my post was wrong. You cannot use Valve's official service (Steam) to sell skins for real money. [B]You must first go through a third party illegal gambling site that explicitly goes against Valve's ToS.[/B][/QUOTE]
And yet, Valve has acknowledged such sites for years now, and has done nothing to stop this madness
That also breaks your point and puts Valve at fault, hmm?
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648838]Nothing I said in my post was wrong. You cannot use Valve's official service (Steam) to sell skins for real money. You must first go through a third party illegal gambling site that explicitly goes against Valve's ToS.
[editline]5th July 2016[/editline]
This is true. Do other online gambling sites have other forms of age verification that I am not aware of?[/QUOTE]
but you need to buy keys from valve, correct?
putting money in without a guaranteed outcome/equal return
hate to break it to you
but that's gambling
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;50648854]And yet, Valve has acknowledged such sites for years now, and has done nothing to stop this madness
That also breaks your point and puts Valve at fault, hmm?[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure it does. I'm sure PayPal knows that illegal dealings occur on their site, yet a lawsuit against them would also probably not stand up. I'm sure Craigslist knows that illegal prostitution occurs on their site, and they are probably still protected legally. I'm sure gun manufacturers are aware that spree shootings occur, yet a lawsuit against them for said shootings would be absurd.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points.
[editline]5th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50648863]but you need to buy keys from valve, correct?
putting money in without a guaranteed outcome/equal return
hate to break it to you
but that's gambling[/QUOTE]
But illegal gambling? Is there tax evasion or fraud occurring?
[QUOTE=Makol;50648817][media]https://twitter.com/h3h3productions/status/750132852256157696[/media][/QUOTE]
again, out of valve's control. valve doesn't have control over paypal/bitcoin/etc transactions outside of steam. they have control on fighting against these culprits and stopping them from accessing certain Steam APIs (which would really only do little considering all you need is a page sniffer to figure out what is in someone's public inventory,) but doing nothing about it is not a crime (in effect, the bystander law. if i'm misunderstanding this, please correct me.) Valve does not actively promote this kind of behavior either, so that can't be brought against them. really, the only thing valve is guilty of is providing a (hopefully) unintentional platform for this kind of thing.
i guess the argument can be made that valve does apply some sort of monetary value to these guns via the Steam credit system ([URL="http://i.imgur.com/RjeGtSJ.png"]since they use actual currency signage to describe such credit[/URL]) buuut the laws around that kind of loophole are very shaky at best. either way,
It occurs to me now that these transactions on Steam precipitated by these illegal gambling sites also go directly into Valve's pocket thanks to their market system. I guess one could argue that Valve is incentivized to keep these sites up even though it's against their ToS because it makes them money.
I need to rethink this.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648875]I'm not sure it does. I'm sure PayPal knows that illegal dealings occur on their site, yet a lawsuit against them would also probably not stand up. I'm sure Craigslist knows that illegal prostitution occurs on their site, and they are probably still protected legally. I'm sure gun manufacturers are aware that spree shootings occur, yet a lawsuit against them for said shootings would be absurd.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points.
[editline]5th July 2016[/editline]
But illegal gambling? Is there tax evasion or fraud occurring?[/QUOTE]
no it's not illegal to my knowledge
but it's still highly unethical in that there's no regulation and no age restrictions and it's within something that's knowingly played by kids.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648838]Nothing I said in my post was wrong. You cannot use Valve's official service (Steam) to sell skins for real money. [B]You must first go through a third party [I]illegal gambling[/I] site that explicitly goes against Valve's ToS.[/B]
[editline]5th July 2016[/editline]
This is true. Do other online gambling sites have other forms of age verification that I am not aware of?[/QUOTE]
You can use sites like opskins to sell steam based skins for real money, but to my knowledge the site does not delve into gambling. There are sites that just sell skins without the gambling part
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50648887]no it's not illegal to my knowledge
but it's still highly unethical in that there's no regulation and no age restrictions and it's within something that's knowingly played by kids.[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree that it's probably unethical as shit. I just don't think Valve is going to see any trouble from this lawsuit. I'm not trying to defend Valve's honor here or anything, I'm just explaining why I thought the case as bunk.
[editline]5th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xgamer921;50648889]You can use sites like opskins to sell steam based skins for real money, but to my knowledge the site does not delve into gambling. There are sites that just sell skins without the gambling part[/QUOTE]
Can you do this on Steam?
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648894]
Can you do this on Steam?[/QUOTE]
No you cannot do it on Steam. I was just saying not all the sites selling skins involve gambling. They can still be shady af though.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648894]Oh I agree that it's probably unethical as shit. I just don't think Valve is going to see any trouble from this lawsuit.[/QUOTE]
they created the key > crate system in csgo. which is literally gambling and completely unethical being where it is. they should be held accountable for that. they need remove the ability to spend real money on keys and to make cosmetic items totally untradable
[QUOTE=Xgamer921;50648906]No you cannot do it on Steam. I was just saying not all the sites selling skins involve gambling.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I thought you were arguing that you could sell skins on Steam for real money. My bad.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50648875]I'm not sure it does.[B] I'm sure PayPal knows that illegal dealings occur on their site, yet a lawsuit against them would also probably not stand up.[/B] [B]I'm sure Craigslist knows that illegal prostitution occurs on their site[/B], and they are probably still protected legally. I'm sure gun manufacturers are aware that spree shootings occur, yet a lawsuit against them for said shootings would be absurd.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points.[/QUOTE]
Craiglist has been trying to fight online prostitution for years, but it's literally unstoppable
Source: [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/craigslist-cant-stop-online-prostitution/[/url]
Paypal had attempts on shutting down illegal betting websites, including it's users who do so.
Source: [url]https://consumerist.com/2012/03/15/paypal-is-no-friend-to-ncaa-pools-restricts-accounts-used-to-bet-on-march-madness/[/url]
[url]https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US[/url] (User Agreements)
The difference between all this, is that Valve NEVER did anything to stop a single thing, there's a reason why there's billions and billions of cash going in this, they're refusing to solve an illegal "problem" happening around their game, Problem is in quotes because it's the opposite for them, they're gaining a lot on all of this.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;50648909]they created the key > crate system in csgo. which is literally gambling and completely unethical being where it is. they should be held accountable for that. they need remove the ability to spend real money on keys and to make cosmetic items totally untradable[/QUOTE]
you can't call it "literally gambling" when it's not a literal definition of gambling, especially when talking about the law (which is very stringent about the literalness of words.) that's the thing about gambling, it's all based on dancing around the rules. you're not putting money in for more money, you're putting "chips" in for "more or less chips" (and then exchanging them for money.) In CS:GO's case, it's putting real money into digital credit, then that digital credit into a key (the only real transaction between consumer and valve, and the only transaction valve can be held accountable for,) and then the key into crate, to get a digital item out. what the end user does with that item is held accountable for it. i, for instance, don't trade away my items for cash except the occasional steam credit when i'm bored of my skins and want some extra cents towards a cheap game.
if it was a system where you could directly, through valve, exchange the skins for cold, hard cash (not for "the steam wallet") valve would be held accountable and it would be actual gambling. but in this case, Valve is held accountable for the system in the same way a casino is held accountable for gambling, in which case it's not illegal. again, not really moral, but not illegal either. this case has no grounds.
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;50648915]Craiglist has been trying to fight online prostitution for years, but it's literally unstoppable
Source: [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/craigslist-cant-stop-online-prostitution/[/url]
Paypal had attempts on shutting down illegal betting websites, including it's users who do so.
Source: [url]https://consumerist.com/2012/03/15/paypal-is-no-friend-to-ncaa-pools-restricts-accounts-used-to-bet-on-march-madness/[/url]
[url]https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US[/url] (User Agreements)
The difference between all this, is that Valve NEVER did anything to stop a single thing, there's a reason why there's billions and billions of cash going in this, they're refusing to solve an illegal "problem" happening around their game, Problem is in quotes because it's the opposite for them, they're gaining a lot on all of this.[/QUOTE]
i'm no lawyer, but i'm pretty sure valve can't be held accountable for NOT doing something about it. I haven't been able to find any law that would fit into Valve's situation other than this law that only describes [URL="http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.69.100"]failure to report physical abuse to children[/URL] in Washington state. these laws are sometimes referred to as Good Sameritan Laws (not to be confused with the laws of the same name describing the opposite effect.) Ethics come into play but ultimately they have no real foundation for this lawsuit.
i'm going to continue fighting this point since Valve is not at all accountable without basically making any gambling website/casino/etc. also illegal in the process but i'd like to clarify my thoughts. Valve is most definatelly deserving of a boycott and the flack they receive, however they are not the only ones at fault and only face one part of the incredibly fucked up pie this whole case entails.
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