[QUOTE=Jelman;50652156]
[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/4rep4f/we_are_bryce_blum_ryan_morrison_and_jeff_ifrah/[/URL]
AMA with Bryce Blum, Ryan Morrison, and Jeff Ifrah for those interested in regards to gambling in esports[/QUOTE]
This ama is interesting Bryce and Ryan both disagree with each other. Ryan thinks that they'll be punished while Bryce think nothing will come from it. Ryan has had over 75 people email him who lost to tmartn and syndicate that want to sue them for fraud.
I must say I'm glad to see this is blowing up and many different authorities are getting involved. I really hope Valve, Tmartn, and Syndicate get fucking slammed for allowing under-age gambling. (along with all the others who are apart of this controversy)
[QUOTE=Destroyox;50652403]I must say I'm glad to see this is blowing up and many different authorities are getting involved. I really hope Valve, Tmartn, and PsiSyndicate get fucking slammed for allowing under-age gambling. (along with all the others who are apart of this controversy)[/QUOTE]
Syndicate project(Csgolotto) needs to get fucked over harder than psiSyndicate(made like 2 videos) but yeah.
Fuck everyone whos doing this shit
See even I fucked it up. Gotta feel kinda bad for PsiSyndicate, he's going to be mistaken for someone who owns a website that allows under-age gambling.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;50652457]See even I fucked it up. Gotta feel kinda bad for PsiSyndicate, he's going to be mistaken for someone who owns a website that allows under-age gambling.[/QUOTE]
Any other situation would be better as TheSyndicateProject is a much larger channel (9.9 million subs) compared to PsySyndicate (under half a million).
If having a similar name meant people accidentally clicked onto my channel and gave me a few views I'd be happy. Being confused with a larger scumbag is not nice though.
[QUOTE=Wii60;50651704][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/1VAPYSK.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I went to check this guy's twitter to see what he wrote to Tmartin and guess what - most of his tweets are tweets that promote his own csgo betting website. Kind of funny.
[url]https://twitter.com/4llsopp/[/url]
GoldGloveTV is also sponsored by csgolotto while hiding it in his description. He also added it later in [url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160619075041/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebFuk1Jeogw&gl=US&hl=en]time.[/url]
[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/zdDjt0h.png[/thumb]
Funny that this illegal gambling den is run by a crime syndicate calling themselves the syndicate
[QUOTE=Dr.C;50653243]Funny that this illegal gambling den is run by a crime syndicate calling themselves the syndicate[/QUOTE]
the crackdown naming committee strikes again
[QUOTE=JesterUK;50656234]the crackdown naming committee strikes again[/QUOTE]
After this they'll probably rebrand to E.V.I.L.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;50656282]After this they'll probably rebrand to E.V.I.L.[/QUOTE]
Every
Villain
Is
[sp]Lemons[/sp]
I'm confused as to why people are defending Valve in this situation. Valve is in the position where they can easily enforce take-downs on any gambling site which crops up, and ban the accounts involved with it. But they still refuse to do so.
Valve had the ability to make the transactions for these sites, namely the trade of items, open for the world to see. Yet they refuse to do this, and worse yet: They decided to add Bitcoin transactions which would effectively mitigate their risk while also increasing their profits from underage gambling.
What we are seeing is very clear for anyone who studies criminology in some sense or another, Valve is implicating itself and is openly supporting underage gambling because it makes them money. This underage gambling can very easily feed into other issues, and as I have mentioned in another thread, using CSGO items to launder money for blackmarket items is really easy. All it would take it someone to transfer all items into keys on CSGO or buy items on marketplaces which can be resold to players via other gambling sites or third party services like Ebay.
Stop defending Valve in these circumstances. They are implicated because they willingly are allowing a thriving blackmarket economy to take place in their games, allowing unregulated gambling among minors - in which they promote via the purchase of keys and taking 10% profit on their marketplaces, and are using their good will of making "good vidya games!" as a method to avoid criticism. That isn't a company you should be supporting, that's a company that is willingly aiding criminal organizations.
I fail to see how Valve is guilty for the underage part of all of this. CS:GO is rated 18+ so while you might have a point about the gambling, the underage part is something that they are not guilty about because you have to be 18 years old to play CS:GO(18 years is the minimal age to gamble in alot of places).
Also, you can't take money out of your steam wallet to a paypal or bitcoin unless you use 3rd party websites(unless I am wrong on this) and unless you want to completely remove the economy aspect from their games this will happen.
I also fail to see how they are promoting this? Where is any promotion for gambling in CS:GO? I mean if you wanna say the crates but then again, you gotta be 18 years old to play CS:GO.
Why I am defending Valve is more because I personally don't see anything morally wrong about gambling in general, as long it is done by adult people. This is just my opinion though.
Though there is a point to be made about them not preventing it although I personally don't think what Valve is doing is very wrong in the same way a gun shop isn't wrong in selling guns that end up killing people.
But I will say this, the youtubers are in no way defendable and I don't see how you could defend them logically.
the whole 'marketed for kids' part isnt really a big part in this. people ive seen keep stressing this, but I can bet that most people who watch these videos are of age who are just down on their luck or play the game a lot and have skins they can gamble. people who look up to these youtubers and trust what they say, because they've watched them for so long.
[QUOTE=Snapster;50658742]Tmartn's response.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjyGQV2i9eU[/media][/QUOTE]
If he appreciated his fans he wouldn't lie to them. It was never exactly public that he owned the website.
Also didn't he alter the info on the website regarding age requirement?
[t]https://abload.de/img/screenshot2016-07-06a0fkb8.png[/t]
Nice that he played the dog card for sympathy points.
What a total fucking jizz sizzler.
While I do myself view this gambling not only in CS:GO or TF2 bur also in League of Legends as disgraceful.
We can not disregard that this outcry towards TmarTn based on the screenshots 'Under the Age of 13' - in my opinion - is uncalled for since it is like he says in the video related to another law which I think everyone is familiar with and is the reason a lot of forums and communities have a 13 age limit.
Everything else is of course really shady but I dislike h3h3 playing that card since it doesn't look serious - to me.
statement from martin's lawyer. [url]http://www.pcinvasion.com/csgolotto-legal-counsel-issues-statement[/url]
[quote]“First and foremost, Trevor Martin values the support of his YouTube followers, and he is focused on publishing entertaining content for them.
“The ownership interests in CSGO Lotto have been public record since the company organized in December 2015.
“It is important to understand that winners on the website are randomly determined by both algorithms and computer code. The odds of winning games played at CSGO Lotto are not more or less favorable to any players. The company has fail-safe measures in place to prevent any person and any player from independently changing or manipulating the outcomes of any games played.
“CSGO Lotto finds it deeply troubling that statements against both the company and its owners are not supported by facts and lack a serious understanding of “gambling,” as that term is legally defined. In this way, CSGO Lotto is materially different from its competitors who operate other game play websites that may, in fact, cross the line of legality.
“There is also considerable misinformation concerning allegations that CSGO Lotto encourages minors of age 13 to participate in its games. This stems from a misunderstanding of the company’s privacy policy. The policy references minors aged 13 and under due to the company’s compliance with the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act. Contrary to what has been suggested, the company does not condone the usage of its website by minors under 18 years of age and, indeed, players must certify their age at the outset. Furthermore, statements released by the company on prior occasions are consistent with the company’s continued efforts to ensure that it does not collect the personal information of any minor.
“-Coleman Watson, Esq. Watson LLP”[/quote]
What a load of baloney
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;50658201]I fail to see how Valve is guilty for the underage part of all of this. CS:GO is rated 18+ so while you might have a point about the gambling, the underage part is something that they are not guilty about because you have to be 18 years old to play CS:GO(18 years is the minimal age to gamble in alot of places).[/quote]
Valve has openly stated before that they are aware of children playing their video games, as most companies design video games with children in mind. If you actually look at some of their books regarding development of games like Half Life 1 and such, it becomes evident that they originally intended on designing monsters that 14 year olds would find funny.
It really doesn't matter that Valve's ToS is saying that they are against users of a certain age group playing their game. As a company, they need those users as the current base of adult users is far, far smaller then the children and young teenager base.
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;50658201]
Also, you can't take money out of your steam wallet to a paypal or bitcoin unless you use 3rd party websites(unless I am wrong on this) and unless you want to completely remove the economy aspect from their games this will happen. [/quote]
Easy. All you have to do is purchase TF2 keys or CSGO keys, and trade them for items that other players don't want, such as game keys and such. Once you get the videogame keys, you can sell them off on EBay or other websites, and make practically full profit for said games from those prices. Valve's part in this system is the purchase of the keys for their videogames, and the purchase of CD Keys through the Steam Store, as they take undisclosed amounts of money for each game purchased on said marketplace as part of their deals with videogame companies.
Valve is always involved in this system, because no matter what, they are hosting the platforms which make these gambling sites and transaction of virtual items, ya know... Possible.
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;50658201]I also fail to see how they are promoting this? Where is any promotion for gambling in CS:GO? I mean if you wanna say the crates but then again, you gotta be 18 years old to play CS:GO.[/quote]
They are a game developer who is trying to appease the largest demographic in the consumer market. That happens to usually be teenagers aged 13 to 18. Most laws do not openly prohibit children from playing the video games, they only make it so parents must purchase the video games and that any purchases inside said video games are done with the parents or authorized by said parents.
As stated in my last quote, Valve is always involved in this market.
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;50658201]Why I am defending Valve is more because I personally don't see anything morally wrong about gambling in general, as long it is done by adult people. This is just my opinion though.
Though there is a point to be made about them not preventing it although I personally don't think what Valve is doing is very wrong in the same way a gun shop isn't wrong in selling guns that end up killing people.
But I will say this, the youtubers are in no way defendable and I don't see how you could defend them logically.[/QUOTE]
Gambling is fairly fucked. It's a vice like any other vice, but the problem here is that it is unregulated and surfs the gray line to the extreme, and no one is willingly putting out lawsuits to enforce the already existing laws in the world. Valve right now is aiding and constructing systems which openly flip the middle finger to almost all gambling regulations currently in play around the world. It's the same shitty loopholes used by Fantasy Football sites, online Poker, championships for certain flash games, ect. It's all gambling and most of it doesn't get touched by federal or state taxes, as most companies operating for these things attempt to loophole the laws in order to avoid casino and gambling licenses.
okay, so the one part of this that I don't get is people saying the whole crate mechanic is immoral and should be removed
how are crates any different from trading card booster packs?
like card games have been doing this sort of thing for decades, but suddenly it's unacceptable?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50659439]okay, so the one part of this that I don't get is people saying the whole crate mechanic is immoral and should be removed
how are crates any different from trading card booster packs?
like card games have been doing this sort of thing for decades, but suddenly it's unacceptable?[/QUOTE]
A majority of TCGs have a guaranteed amount of cards of certain rarities in every pack.
For example a boost pack can have 11 common cards, 3 uncommons cards, and 1 rare. You're guaranteed those items in every booster pack. The one thing that isn't gaursntees is if you get a bonus card that's foil/shiny. With loot boxes/crates it's a total crap shoot. You either strike gold or get total shit. There are no guaranteed items in the boxes/crates.
[QUOTE=Makol;50659510]A majority of TCGs have a guaranteed amount of cards of certain rarities in every pack.
For example a boost pack can have 11 common cards, 3 uncommons cards, and 1 rare. You're guaranteed those items in every booster pack. The one thing that isn't gaursntees is if you get a bonus card that's foil/shiny. With loot boxes/crates it's a total crap shoot. You either strike gold or get total shit. There are no guaranteed items in the boxes/crates.[/QUOTE]
how is it any different with TCGs?
Just because you get guaranteed rares doesn't mean those rares will be any good. You could buy 1000 MtG packs and get nothing but garbage or 10 foil Tarmagoyfs. It's literally the exact same thing here.
[QUOTE=Makol;50659510]A majority of TCGs have a guaranteed amount of cards of certain rarities in every pack.
For example a boost pack can have 11 common cards, 3 uncommons cards, and 1 rare. You're guaranteed those items in every booster pack. The one thing that isn't gaursntees is if you get a bonus card that's foil/shiny. With loot boxes/crates it's a total crap shoot. You either strike gold or get total shit. There are no guaranteed items in the boxes/crates.[/QUOTE]
Going by this logic CSgo and other games with similar systems are exactly the same.
They have "shit" items that are common and uncommon, but you can only unbox rares and up. Only difference is you only get 1 item instead of a thousand filler crap.
I honestly don't see what point you are making here.
If that's you're mind set that you really don't know enough to about MtG and how cards can be deemed as "valueable" or "useful" in the various formats. I could get a booster with a shit rare but other parts of the booster can still hold value or be useful in certain decks/formats.
Plus the items in the crates are skins that utterly useless and serve no function other than looks and bragging rights where as cards can be functional in various ways.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50659416]Valve has openly stated before that they are aware of children playing their video games, as most companies design video games with children in mind. If you actually look at some of their books regarding development of games like Half Life 1 and such, it becomes evident that they originally intended on designing monsters that 14 year olds would find funny. [/QUOTE]
Wanna chime in and let you know you're wrong.
First, not funny, frightening.
Second, not Valve, it was the guy they hired who came up with something beforehand going into the interview.
[QUOTE=Dr.Scrake;50659730]Going by this logic CSgo and other games with similar systems are exactly the same.
They have "shit" items that are common and uncommon, but you can only unbox rares and up. Only difference is you only get 1 item instead of a thousand filler crap.
I honestly don't see what point you are making here.[/QUOTE]
especially since the value of the items inside the crates (much like individual cards in tcgs) have no inherent value besides what is backed by the people who buy and sell them. there's technically nothing different between an asimov or a safari mesh skin but it's the community that drives the prices for these.
[QUOTE=Makol;50659755]If that's you're mind set that you really don't know enough to about MtG and how cards can be deemed as "valueable" or "useful" in the various formats. I could get a booster with a shit rare but other parts of the booster can still hold value or be useful in certain decks/formats.[/QUOTE]
all items in csgo are aesthetic. they have no purpose and no value. valve doesn't assign a value to them (aside of the minimum market values of 3 usd cents per every item on the steam marketplace)
[QUOTE=Makol;50659755]If that's you're mind set that you really don't know enough to about MtG and how cards can be deemed as "valueable" or "useful" in the various formats. I could get a booster with a shit rare but other parts of the booster can still hold value or be useful in certain decks/formats.[/QUOTE]
the monetary value of a card is determined by the format it's useful in and the number of decks/players that want it
if a card isn't useful in any widely played formats or isn't used in very many decks then it isn't going to be worth much
it's entirely possible to open up a ton of packs and get nothing of value despite guaranteed rares
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