• Fuck Skyrim - The Jimquisition
    58 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;52946514]I firmly believe this next around of TES and Fallout games will be their last. At the current rate of decline, they won't even be RPGs anymore, they'll be shadows of even Skyrim and Fallout 4s simplifications[/QUOTE] What if they'll stop making RPGs altogether and will start releasing shooters once a year?
[QUOTE=Brt5470;52947230]The city is a joke. Like 25,000 drawcalls makes my 1080Ti/Ryzen 1700 crawl to 24fps.[/QUOTE] it's the shadows too. the gamebryo engine doesn't remove shadows that you can't see so all those buildings are leaving resource consuming shadows all over the place. there is a mod that dynamically adjusts the shadow draw distance based on FPS.
People actually pay 60 dollars for a 6 year old overrated game? You'd think people would realize how much of a buggy miss Skyrim is without mods and stop buying it. But then again, people continuely buy Call of Duty and Madden, which is the same games every year.
The problem is the engine they so doggedly insist on keeping. There's no reason for it. It's time long past time to dump it in the trash and use literally anything else. Their engine sucks. It can't really make visually impressive games, Fallout 4 is the best they've ever made on a visual level and it [I]still[/I] lagged behind other titles of the time graphically. AND it ran like dog shit for even the most powerful PCs on release at the time. It's buggy as hell. The physics barely work. It's always filled with game breaking bugs that up until now people have just gone "well it's a bethesda title what do you expect", which is just, stupid, to just accept their incompetence as 'just what they do' and not even mind it. Sure, it's easy to build shit with bethbryo, which is why mods even exist so extensively, but a new engine doesn't necessitate that to be false either. And if mods are used by so small a population as people claim in this thread then having an engine that can build a bigger, better, more stable game should take precedence anyway. ESPECIALLY since half the effort of modding tends to be [I]fixing[/I] the game's fuckups in the first place. It has physics! But that's not really that impressive anymore. Physics don't even play a part in 99 percent of the game beyond enemies ragdolling and cups flying everywhere because a plate nudged it. I love modding, but I'd still trade an engine with great modding for a engine that could handle having more than 10 NPCs fighting at a time, or have a city that actually feels like a city, without keeling over and dying any day. [t]https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_super/7/70675/1976441-darksouls_anorlondo.jpg[/t] Nothing the Bethesda team will ever make will feel as grand and visually splendid as this on that engine. [t]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/V7dNQbKFvvI/maxresdefault.jpg[/t] Nor will any Bethesda game be able to handle a crowd of such size without breaking, rendering their attempts at telling 'war' stories fucking pathetic.
Bethesda's other departments make fantastic games. Bethesda's RPG on the other hand, [I]should quit while its ahead.[/I]
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52947539]Bethesda's other departments make fantastic games. Bethesda's RPG on the other hand, [I]should quit while its ahead.[/I][/QUOTE] You mean Bethesda Game Studios makes bad games but Bethesda Softworks publishes at least decent ones? Because yeah, I can see that.
[QUOTE=LittleBabyman;52947570]You mean Bethesda Game Studios makes bad games but Bethesda Softworks publishes at least decent ones? Because yeah, I can see that.[/QUOTE] Ye, I couldn't remember off the top of my head
[QUOTE=kill3r;52946209]To sum up Bethesda all you have to do is look at Fallout 4 on release and how shit and buggy it was (and clearly unplaytested) For those of you that don't know - Your vertical sensitivity was (and [I]still is[/I]) half of your horizontal sensitivity on PC - Your FPS determines the games speed. If you have over 60 fps the game engine will bug out, you will face tons of problems (this has been an issue since skyrim, they didn't even both to acknowledge or fix it for FO4) - The performance was, and is, still absolute trash[/QUOTE] fallout 4 was when i stopped finding the bugs funny the game locked up because of the shitty dialogue system THREE fucking times thats ignoring all the bugs that fucked my progression, all the massive fucking framedrops, all the random missing textures, all the physics issues
[QUOTE=Untouch;52947634]fallout 4 was when i stopped finding the bugs funny the game locked up because of the shitty dialogue system THREE fucking times thats ignoring all the bugs that fucked my progression, all the massive fucking framedrops, all the random missing textures, all the physics issues[/QUOTE] Fallout 4 was the game that finally killed my faith in Bethesda games. Say what you want about Skyrim, I certainly agree that it's ridiculous they haven't fixed at least the game breaking bugs with all the porting and it had its flaws, but I enjoyed it and I definitely got my money's worth. Fallout 4 on the other hand I found to be an incoherent mess. After the opening sequence I found that instead of stumbling over quests everywhere I went like in Skyrim (or previous Fallout entries) I was mostly just finding bandits or supermutants and the quests I ran into were basically all just "go here and kill x" with very little even in the way of framing. Skyrim got a lot of flack for quests that ended up being about just killing Draugr, but off the top of my head I can recall: -running into a talking dog -having a hangover style messup with a hagraven -going into a soul gem to clear out a daedra infestation and a person who was using it to obtain immortality -a cult of cannibals consisting of citizens of a major city -various puzzle areas, none of which were particularly incredible but still added some variety to the dungeons meanwhile the most interesting thing that's happened to me in 12 hours of fallout between the massive run of crashes and glitches has been killing a big crab. That's it. Even though they got old fairly quickly the dragon fights were vastly more exciting the first times they happened and they added more to the world such as guarding word walls. I'm sure there's more things waiting in fallout 4 that I just haven't gotten to but in the time I've played it for already I could have played several much better story-focused games all the way through and the crashes just made it that much more painful. Many people might find Skyrim "simple", but Fallout 4 felt unfinished to me.
Bethesda should just become a publisher and give their franchises to other companies.
[QUOTE=megafat;52947697]Bethesda should just become a publisher and give their franchises to other companies.[/QUOTE] To be fair - Fallout New Vegas is a great example of this. They gave over the Fallout IP to Obsidian and they made it a fucking masterpiece compared to Fallout 3. It makes me wish the rumours of a New Vegas 2 are real. I'd preorder that in a heartbeat (and I never preorder stuff).
[QUOTE=megafat;52947697]Bethesda should just become a publisher and give their franchises to other companies.[/QUOTE] IMO Bethesda is a great publisher at the moment. I'll take games like Wolfenstein, DOOM, Dishonored, Prey and Quake Champions over what Activision and EA are pumping out at the moment.
[QUOTE=Robber;52948995]IMO Bethesda is a great publisher at the moment. I'll take games like Wolfenstein, DOOM, Dishonored, Prey and Quake Champions over what Activision and EA are pumping out at the moment.[/QUOTE] They're doing a great job of publishing ideas that don't have tons of mainstream appeal. Many publishers wouldn't be attracted to a System Shock spiritual successor like Prey, but Bethesda let Arkane go for it and make a great-ass game.
I would not call them that great, Sure they let publish stuff that other companies like EA or Activision would never do. But they do have quite some problems. Maybe its just a coincidence, but nearly every game published by Bethesda Softworks this year was quite glitchy. Prey had some gamebreaking bugs (now fixed thankfully) Dishonored 2 was just a glitchy unoptimized mess on release and Wolfenstein 2 probably should have benefited from a month or two of polish. The only game that wasn't that glitchy (I think) was The Evil Within 2. I heard rumors that this is because Bethesda Softworks has some really strict deadlines, or this is because of that whole [URL="https://bethesda.net/es/article/42QH1pTNpKSYIcgKK2C4wW/bethesda-and-game-reviews"]Review copy policy[/URL] thing that was implemented last year. Bethesda really LOVES those glitches. EDIT: There's also the whole disaster that is the Creation Club, and whatever the hell happened to the Original Prey, which I still don't know why It hasn't been re-released officially again since pretty sure Bethesda Softworks holds the rights of it, I would kill for a re-release of that game.
[QUOTE=rutolfus;52949642]I would not call them that great, Sure they let publish stuff that other companies like EA or Activision would never do. But they do have quite some problems. Maybe its just a coincidence, but nearly every game published by Bethesda Softworks this year was quite glitchy. Prey had some gamebreaking bugs (now fixed thankfully) Dishonored 2 was just a glitchy unoptimized mess on release and Wolfenstein 2 probably should have benefited from a month or two of polish. The only game that wasn't that glitchy (I think) was The Evil Within 2. I heard rumors that this is because Bethesda Softworks has some really strict deadlines, [b]or this is because of that whole [URL="https://bethesda.net/es/article/42QH1pTNpKSYIcgKK2C4wW/bethesda-and-game-reviews"]Review copy policy[/URL] thing[/b] that was implemented last year. Bethesda really LOVES those glitches.[/QUOTE] It appears that since The Evil Within 2, Bethesda has dropped that policy. Now reviews for their games typically come out a day before release
[QUOTE=chemo;52949694]It appears that since The Evil Within 2, Bethesda has dropped that policy. [B]Now reviews for their games typically come out a day before release[/B][/QUOTE] Seems you are right! With Evil Within 2, the Copies were given a week before the official release of the game, which is way better than the previous policy. Wolfenstein 2 also had the copies released the week before, Sadly that didnt help improve the unstable PC port.
Q&A, who needs it haha [editline]9th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52947469] [t]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/V7dNQbKFvvI/maxresdefault.jpg[/t] Nor will any Bethesda game be able to handle a crowd of such size without breaking, rendering their attempts at telling 'war' stories fucking pathetic.[/QUOTE] Uhhh yeah lets not use Ubisoft as a positive example to look up towards, especially considering that the crowd size shown was actually a serious issue like for anything
[QUOTE=J!NX;52961436]Q&A, who needs it haha[/QUOTE] Thing is, Skyrim had like 80 people on QA. I reckon they did actually do their job but Bethesda didn't bother fixing anything.
[QUOTE=Evil_Toot;52961464]Thing is, Skyrim had like 80 people on QA. I reckon they did actually do their job but Bethesda didn't bother fixing anything.[/QUOTE] tbh QA for Bethesda must be a sweet job instead of rigorously breaking the game you just play it normally and then they don't listen to you anyways so it doesn't even matter if you tell them truths or not
[QUOTE=Evil_Toot;52961464]Thing is, Skyrim had like 80 people on QA. I reckon they did actually do their job but Bethesda didn't bother fixing anything.[/QUOTE] the game was probably even more broken before release
Even with a rather comprehensive fan patch, you still need smaller engine patches and potentially even an external injected program just to cover as many common crashing methods as possible that the initial patch couldn't touch; adding mods, especially high counts, [B]require this[/B] to lessen the opportunities the game gets to try to commit suicide, and even with the Special Edition there's absolutely no assurance any of it will work, much less with any consistency. Skyrim and Bethesda games in general are a supernatural level of jank where the game may just implode because a bucket's physics model decided it didn't want to exist on the same realm as you.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52947469]The problem is the engine they so doggedly insist on keeping. There's no reason for it. It's time long past time to dump it in the trash and use literally anything else. Their engine sucks. It can't really make visually impressive games, Fallout 4 is the best they've ever made on a visual level and it [I]still[/I] lagged behind other titles of the time graphically. AND it ran like dog shit for even the most powerful PCs on release at the time. It's buggy as hell. The physics barely work. It's always filled with game breaking bugs that up until now people have just gone "well it's a bethesda title what do you expect", which is just, stupid, to just accept their incompetence as 'just what they do' and not even mind it. Sure, it's easy to build shit with bethbryo, which is why mods even exist so extensively, but a new engine doesn't necessitate that to be false either. And if mods are used by so small a population as people claim in this thread then having an engine that can build a bigger, better, more stable game should take precedence anyway. ESPECIALLY since half the effort of modding tends to be [I]fixing[/I] the game's fuckups in the first place. It has physics! But that's not really that impressive anymore. Physics don't even play a part in 99 percent of the game beyond enemies ragdolling and cups flying everywhere because a plate nudged it. I love modding, but I'd still trade an engine with great modding for a engine that could handle having more than 10 NPCs fighting at a time, or have a city that actually feels like a city, without keeling over and dying any day. [t]https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_super/7/70675/1976441-darksouls_anorlondo.jpg[/t] Nothing the Bethesda team will ever make will feel as grand and visually splendid as this on that engine. [t]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/V7dNQbKFvvI/maxresdefault.jpg[/t] Nor will any Bethesda game be able to handle a crowd of such size without breaking, rendering their attempts at telling 'war' stories fucking pathetic.[/QUOTE] That's actually not true at all. The Engine, Gamebryo is actually quite a decent engine and has supported very beautiful games such as [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/app/39120/RIFT/"]RIFT[/URL] The issue is their engine team isn't really good at making it all work well; with massive performance dips in city areas due to all the draw calls. As well as their art direction being somewhat mediocre. Also the Dark souls comparison is rather unfair, because it's a linear game, and you can optimize heavily what you can't get to. Don't forget the assasin's creed game also had terrible performance, and draw call errors. (looked beautiful as hell though thanks to the baked global illumination.)
[QUOTE=J!NX;52961436]Q&A, who needs it haha [editline]9th December 2017[/editline] Uhhh yeah lets not use Ubisoft as a positive example to look up towards, especially considering that the crowd size shown was actually a serious issue like for anything[/QUOTE] I only recall the crowd being an issue in Assassins creed unity.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52963940] Also the Dark souls comparison is rather unfair, because it's a linear game, and you can optimize heavily what you can't get to. Don't forget the assasin's creed game also had terrible performance, and draw call errors. (looked beautiful as hell though thanks to the baked global illumination.)[/QUOTE] To add, The dark souls comparison is pretty bad because the game ran like absolute piss on PC to the point of needing a third party fix no matter what you did, and even then running somewhat poorly at times. Dark souls 1 ran significantly worse than any bethesda game out there. Even Skyrim doesn't need a patch to run above 30 fps. Dark Souls needs one so it can even run on hardware that's magnitudes higher than its recommended specs. That screenshot no less is basically a very glorified sandbox. That allows it to have significantly less rendering power. The game still runs like shit. Sure, you can actually physically go to that castle, but it's a very low-quality version of the version you actually get close to, it's not actually loaded in bulk, and there are almost no scripted objects or events to deal with outside of enemies.
[QUOTE=kill3r;52946209]To sum up Bethesda all you have to do is look at Fallout 4 on release and how shit and buggy it was (and clearly unplaytested) For those of you that don't know - Your vertical sensitivity was (and [I]still is[/I]) half of your horizontal sensitivity on PC - Your FPS determines the games speed. If you have over 60 fps the game engine will bug out, you will face tons of problems (this has been an issue since skyrim, they didn't even both to acknowledge or fix it for FO4) - The performance was, and is, still absolute trash[/QUOTE] The fps issue has been around since FO3 if i recall correctly
[QUOTE=J!NX;52964091]To add, The dark souls comparison is pretty bad because the game ran like absolute piss on PC to the point of needing a third party fix no matter what you did, and even then running somewhat poorly at times. Dark souls 1 ran significantly worse than any bethesda game out there. Even Skyrim doesn't need a patch to run above 30 fps. Dark Souls needs one so it can even run on hardware that's magnitudes higher than its recommended specs. That screenshot no less is basically a very glorified sandbox. That allows it to have significantly less rendering power. The game still runs like shit. Sure, you can actually physically go to that castle, but it's a very low-quality version of the version you actually get close to, it's not actually loaded in bulk, and there are almost no scripted objects or events to deal with outside of enemies.[/QUOTE] Dark souls actually has a very nice engine and ran fine on consoles. The issue was they just did a bad job at porting it to pc (which is notorious for Japanese developers) It was actually pretty impressive the amount of polygons they pushed on 360 and ps3 hardware.
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52965151]Dark souls actually has a very nice engine and ran fine on consoles. The issue was they just did a bad job at porting it to pc (which is notorious for Japanese developers) It was actually pretty impressive the amount of polygons they pushed on 360 and ps3 hardware.[/QUOTE] I mean, I've been a massive Soulsborne fan since DeS but Dark Souls on console was capped to 30 despite pretty low quality textures and little in the way of visual effects most of the time, and even dipped below that to basically unplayable chugs at times. Ironically in areas where view distance was lowest like Blighttown. I wouldn't exactly call that running fine.
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