Motorcycle Robbery Goes Wrong When The Victim Pulls a Gun - General

[QUOTE=zerosix;49337553]Murderers are murderers and robbers are robbers. Link me some examples of people being mugged at gunpoint and getting away safely in the media? Oh right you can't because it isn't reported, it isn't as interesting to read. I assure you that X times more robberies happen daily where a gun or knife is used only as a scare tactic and nobody gets hurt.[/QUOTE] Stories where people carrying a concealed weapon legally and saving dozens of lives never make the news either, but they happen tons of times every day. What's your point?

[QUOTE=Cone;49337346]if anything keeping completely calm and complying requires more guts than panicking and pulling a gun, regardless of which one would be smarter. like sure if everyone did that because they were some kind of deathly cold killing machine then i get where they're coming from, but realistically just as many if not more people would pull a gun mainly because they freaked the fuck out, not because they analyzed the situation in slow-motion completely detached from their own bodies like a T-800 and decided that yes, this was happening exactly as planned[/QUOTE] I agree. People respond to stress and threat in many different ways. Your animal instinct might be to charge the guy, run away or give in. Only the end result matters. If the guy had been shot as he was trying to grab his own gun this thread would have gone an entirely different way. Truth is most of the time you don't or can't know what the other person is thinking or what he/she is going to do. The problem is most people in this thread seem to think pulling out your own gun automatically saves you. Dying while fighting is perhaps nobler than dying while fleeing but you end up dead either way and there is no reliable way to know which action is going to lead to what. Also talking about it means absolutely jack shit unless you have been in a situation like this. I haven't and that is why I'm keeping an open mind. I can talk about how I would shoot the guy twenty times before he can react in my warm and fairly sheltered life, but I have absolutely no idea how I would react when it is happening to me in real life.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49337562]Stories where people carrying a concealed weapon legally and saving dozens of lives never make the news either, but they happen tons of times every day. What's your point?[/QUOTE] What's yours? That's got nothing to do with the argument lmao I'm saying that the guy can't link one article showing someone that was shot after the robbery, when I'm positive that more (or definitely just as many) robberies happen where nobody gets hurt. That one article is not enough to show that every robbery ever ends with somebody getting shot

[QUOTE=zerosix;49337578]What's yours? That's got nothing to do with the argument lmao I'm saying that the guy can't link one article showing someone that was shot after the robbery, when I'm positive that more (or definitely just as many) robberies happen where nobody gets hurt. That one article is not enough to show that every robbery ever ends with somebody getting shot[/QUOTE] You said: [QUOTE]Link me some examples of people being mugged at gunpoint and getting away safely in the media?[/QUOTE] I said: [QUOTE]Stories where people carrying a concealed weapon legally and saving dozens of lives never make the news either, but they happen tons of times every day. What's your point? [/QUOTE] How is that irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate?

[QUOTE=zerosix;49337578]What's yours? That's got nothing to do with the argument lmao I'm saying that the guy can't link one article showing someone that was shot after the robbery, when I'm positive that more (or definitely just as many) robberies happen where nobody gets hurt. That one article is not enough to show that every robbery ever ends with somebody getting shot[/QUOTE] You're absolutely right, plenty of muggings happen where nobody gets hurt. But the simple fact that there is even [I]one[/I] recorded instance where a mugging ended in critical bodily harm or even death supports that when it comes to muggings, home invasions, etc, you don't take the chance. Any percentage of those crimes that end in the senseless murder or critical harm of the victim by the assailant, especially after the assailant already got what they came for, is enough of a ratio to justify taking [I]every[/I] measure to defend yourself from them. Leaving your life up to the [I]chance[/I] that the mugger won't hurt you is foolish and naive.

[QUOTE=zerosix;49336780]I know. Nobody can say for sure that he was planning on doing so either, but the fact that he was getting out of the car and checking the mirrors while waving the gun out of the window as the guy ran away [B](also looking at his body language etc) makes me think that he had intention to. [/B] As well as that, the guy on the bike from what I can see on the video was unarmed and was trying to wheel the bike backwards to get away before he got shot.[/QUOTE] Ok so if I get this correctly you're willing to give the robbers the benefit of the doubt whether or not they would pull the trigger, but you won't do the same for the victim? You're a huge fucking hypocrite.

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;49337770]Ok so if I get this correctly you're willing to give the robbers the benefit of the doubt whether or not they would pull the trigger, but you won't do the same for the victim? You're a huge fucking hypocrite.[/QUOTE] I'm beginning to think he's trolling this thread.

[QUOTE=zerosix;49337578]What's yours? That's got nothing to do with the argument lmao I'm saying that the guy can't link one article showing someone that was shot after the robbery, when I'm positive that more (or definitely just as many) robberies happen where nobody gets hurt. That one article is not enough to show that every robbery ever ends with somebody getting shot[/QUOTE] You absolutely could submit to the attackers' demands and [i]maybe[/i] get away unharmed and have the police [i]possibly[/i] return your belongings in the condition they were taken. But, if you have the means, time, and training to defend your life and your belongings, why wouldn't you? There isn't a moral high-ground to it, you don't threaten someone with a firearm and not expect to be shot at. The victim got a window of opportunity, did what he thought was right, and he wasn't harmed. The criminal that threatened the victim saw him draw, ran, and got his accomplice shot.

[QUOTE=zerosix;49336619]great idea, shoot and potentially kill some guys that are trying to steal either a) £20 from your wallet and your insured bank card or b) your insured car the gun the robber is using looks like it'd explode rather than shoot too. and it's not like some lowly muggers are actually going to murder you over a car they can probably only shift for a couple of hundred quid anyway[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=319_1395939043[/url] [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a8_1397410837[/url] [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9b6_1411286635[/url] etc. If you think everyone who puts a gun to your head just wants to bum 20 bucks from your wallet you're a [I]fucking retard[/I]. If you point a gun at someone you sign your own death warrant.

I've learned from this thread that you should never hurt someone that's stealing from you. Just bend over and take their dick and you better ask for seconds to not hurt their feelings.

[QUOTE=zerosix;49336619]great idea, shoot and potentially kill some guys that are trying to steal either a) £20 from your wallet and your insured bank card or b) your insured car the gun the robber is using looks like it'd explode rather than shoot too. and it's not like some lowly muggers are actually going to murder you over a car they can probably only shift for a couple of hundred quid anyway[/QUOTE] What a naive pure child.

[QUOTE=Buck.;49336993]I don't see anything wrong with chasing down and shooting them even after they run away. It will teach them a lesson or better yet kill them.[/QUOTE] Thankfully you are contained in Britain. The last thing the world needs is people like you with firearms.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;49337893]Thankfully you are contained in Britain. The last thing the world needs is people like you with firearms.[/QUOTE] People like him don't have guns because they're afraid of them.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49337899]People like him don't have guns because they're afraid of them.[/QUOTE] The why is quite frankly irrelevant. Someone with that mental disposition should never be permitted to own a firearm under any circumstance.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;49337931]The why is quite frankly irrelevant. Someone with that mental disposition should never be permitted to own a firearm under any circumstance.[/QUOTE] Well yeah I mean FFL asks you if you're on drugs/booze/crazy and so on. Let's hope he wouldn't lie.

[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;49337823][url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=319_1395939043[/url] [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a8_1397410837[/url] [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9b6_1411286635[/url] etc. If you think everyone who puts a gun to your head just wants to bum 20 bucks from your wallet you're a [I]fucking retard[/I]. If you point a gun at someone you sign your own death warrant.[/QUOTE] People who do this forfeit their right to live. Makes my blood boil.

To be honest if you're going to "Rape/Rob/Murder/Mug someone at gunpoint" and you get killed int he process, it's 100% fair game that the victim gets off free you threatened to KILL them. They should be within full rights to defend themselves however necessary. even if you're just some "lowly innocent delicate mugger" who is "Just using a gun as a scare tactic" The right to live doesn't exist while threatening to shoot someone else. Also Zerosix is an idiot. Complete fool. The first rule of handling a firearm is to never point it at something you intend/are ready to destroy, the logic goes both ways.

Unfortunately I have no popcorn, so I'll go make some hamburgers and enjoy the show. Be right back

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49337619]You said: I said: How is that irrelevant and has nothing to do with the debate?[/QUOTE] Because it doesn't fit his narrative

Calling this a "debate"

This is a great "feel good" video. Good job, driver. [QUOTE=Kegan;49336884]Man there's always at least one guy that tries to stick up for the robber in these kinda topics :v:[/QUOTE] Allegedly, some times people doing that are criminals themselves I have heard. Allegedly.

Robbing someone at gunpoint isn't a crime. The man clearly shot and killed the real victim here! EDIT: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1497937[/url] gold

[QUOTE=J!NX;49338867]Robbing someone at gunpoint isn't a crime. The man clearly shot and killed the real victim here! EDIT: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1497937[/url] gold[/QUOTE] Eh I honestly think it wasn't flamebaiting and he was defending his opinions pretty well even if I don't agree with those opinions entirely. He wasn't completely unjustified in saying unloading the gun without even caring about how/where you aim out the window of a car is not the smartest thing to do and might not exactly be construed self defence. It also might be depending on the heat of the moment. And I think it is especially stupid to post his RC post here to fish for some ratings.

[QUOTE=J!NX;49338867]Robbing someone at gunpoint isn't a crime. The man clearly shot and killed the real victim here! EDIT: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1497937[/url] gold[/QUOTE] You tease.

[QUOTE=zerosix;49336619]great idea, shoot and potentially kill some guys that are trying to steal either a) £20 from your wallet and your insured bank card or b) your insured car the gun the robber is using looks like it'd explode rather than shoot too. and it's not like some lowly muggers are actually going to murder you over a car they can probably only shift for a couple of hundred quid anyway [highlight](User was banned for this post ("flamebaiting" - Orkel))[/highlight][/QUOTE] The risk you take when you live a life of crime is being fed your own medicine. Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, as they say. Defending one's self and your possessions goes back thousands of years

Some of you brits are alright, don't go to the armed criminal defender school tomorrow Yeah but seriously i could understand you guys not wanting to let guns into the hands of the common citizen, but saying killing a robber that might kill you after handing your stuff over to eliminate witnesses is bloodlust? S H E L T E R E D B O Y S

You know just going to put this out there, if that robber actually had a real and loaded gun the dude he was robbing would have been well fucking dead, it took him ages to reach for that gun and the robber clearly saw what he was doing hence trying to run, that dude is one lucky fuck.

[QUOTE=archival;49340063]You know just going to put this out there, if that robber actually had a real and loaded gun the dude he was robbing would have been well fucking dead, it took him ages to reach for that gun and the robber clearly saw what he was doing hence trying to run, that dude is one lucky fuck.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the gun was real. I think he just wanted to use it as a piece of intimidation, but the driver had no way to know that. Hell, I don't even know that, just throwing it out there.

To be fair, the robber had run halfway down the street and the victim shot the motorcycle driver instead of the person who threatened him. In general, it's [B]not[/B] self-defense to kill someone who's retreating. But I can't blame the guy. It's hard to imagine having the gun and reacting any other way in such a situation.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;49339960]The risk you take when you live a life of crime is being fed your own medicine. Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, as they say. Defending one's self and your possessions goes back thousands of years[/QUOTE] Worst part? He's acting like the plight of these muggers is all sympathetic when there are millions of people like them that [I]don't[/I] go out and rob people. Committing a crime is a choice, committing a crime with a deadly weapon is a choice, and those choices have some pretty hefty consequences that only the most limp of wrists would want to soften (in this case, saying you shouldn't shoot a mugger threatening you with a weapon.)