also a lot of these changes were to make gameplay better
like dead people dropping ammo boxes instead of you picking up a bow to replenish a sandwich
not being able to shoot weapons around to reduce physics related events (for optimization and to remove some random elements)
removing some particle effects to make the map more clean
the sapper not dropping anything on destruction because it used to be you can get ammo/metal from broken sappers, but that was too easy to exploit
I know crowbcats videos are always negative but this was silly
aren't the minigun/flamer downgrades so they can accept skins?
idk how anyone in their right mind could say the new flamer viewmodel is better... same for needler world model
There are some real problems in tf2 he could have pointed out, like the increase in hacking, all the misfitting skins, etc.
A lot of people are complaining about nitpicking but I think it's fine. I always love it when games have small details like the bottle breaking or extra animations because it's cool to see. To lose stuff like that is really disappointing. I think the game's style has been impacted somewhat as well. (As a sidenote, the game actually looks better with phong disabled)
[QUOTE=da space core;52410764]like dead people dropping ammo boxes instead of you picking up a bow to replenish a sandwich
the sapper not dropping anything on destruction because it used to be you can get ammo/metal from broken sappers, but that was too easy to exploit[/QUOTE]
The first change was actually introduced when they made it possible to pick up weapons and use them.
The second actually kind of annoys me because they could've easily just made it not possible to pick up sappers. It's kind of disappointing that the broken sapper flying off was removed.
want see same gmod comparison
[QUOTE=FluD;52410795]want see same gmod comparison[/QUOTE]
gmod 2004 release
[video=youtube;KyHRvKPNGUM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyHRvKPNGUM[/video]
gmod today
[video=youtube;GJZRVG40Wwo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJZRVG40Wwo[/video]
Time for TF3 I suppose v:v:v
[QUOTE=DasMatze;52410701]Is it? He shows off differences, he doesn't complain about it (not even in the description), it's up to the viewer.
Most people are probably well aware of how the game changed in terms of gameplay but as someone who hasn't played the game for a long time, I haven't heard anything about these changes. I might had not even noticed it if I were still playing the game but I'm glad I can see a comparison video, because these changes seem absurd to me.
I mean what are you gaining with this?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EDh1IPR.jpg[/img]
Did they ditch the lightwarp texture? It just doesn't look right. Has the performance changed so much due to hats that you need to downgrade the original content ten years later while hardware has improved significantly? Not a rhetorical question, I'm curious.[/QUOTE]
the lightwarp textures are the same in both 2007 and 2017, it's because they changed to a newer version of the source engine that the lighting looks different.
On a side note, the real differences are in the models and textures rather than lighting
They switched from using 2 different models (a low detail model for use in the world, and a high detail model for use in first person) to using 1 in-between model.
If you look on the flamethrower specifically here you can notice the difference:
TF2 in 2007: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Zuem4Wz.png[/IMG]
TF2 in 2017: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/P9MDwDk.png[/IMG]
The newer version is blocky and lacks detail, and the older version is smooth and has noticeable detail.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52410557][video=youtube;w1W5DU4zmAA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1W5DU4zmAA[/video][/QUOTE]
The thumbnail alone reminds me how fine TF2's art was.
[QUOTE=Untouch;52410723]the game is 10 years old and runs like total ass[/QUOTE]
but why, though
it's pretty unintuitive for an old game to need downgrades
These are all nitpicks that would be relevant when the game was at it's heights. I'm sure if there were any massive changes within the past couple years, it's probably to make the game more accessible on low end computers being it's f2p nature.
[editline]28th June 2017[/editline]
Seems pointless to make this video when the majority of the original TF player base has stopped playing.
was the 2007 version a pre-release copy, or did it actually ship with those placeholder grunt noises?
CrowbCat go back to Ubisoft/Xbone videos pls
[QUOTE=Saphirx;52410947]was the 2007 version a pre-release copy, or did it actually ship with those placeholder grunt noises?[/QUOTE]
it shipped with them but i think not long after release they were patched out
[QUOTE=da space core;52410770]There are some real problems in tf2 he could have pointed out, like the increase in hacking, all the misfitting skins, etc.[/QUOTE]
increase in hacking?
I don't pub much anymore I only really play mixes or comp and I've not noticed a lot o:
I blame every single Dx8 using, toaster-grade, cheap chucklefuck for most of these big visual changes over the years.
We lost good art and detail so they could play the game at 10 fps and [B]still[/B] whine about it.
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;52410732]The only valid CrowbCat TF2 nitpick is his hats video:
[video=youtube;Q9RjDRLBWio]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio[/video][/QUOTE]
The video has a point but its so needlessly melodramatic it comes off as almost satire. Just like a lot of CrowbCats videos.
[QUOTE=Saphirx;52410947]was the 2007 version a pre-release copy, or did it actually ship with those placeholder grunt noises?[/QUOTE]
Those grunts were around 2008 too. Probably removed sometime late 2008 with one of the class updates
Man, he was right about that bottle though.
Can't believe they didn't fix that yet.
[QUOTE=Ax3l;52410754]Because it's interesting? I bet half of us didn't even know these changes existed throughout the years.
CrowbCat has a habit of making his videos very "complainy" though. Some of them valid, and some of them less so, I think.[/QUOTE]
Crowbcat's videos are really cynical but that's also partly what makes them funny though IMO
The way I see it, there's already so many people criticizing hats, graphical/artstyle changes and so forth in the past and even recent history that just doing yet another one of those kinds of things would probably be a bit.. redundant. I look up TF2 downgrades and I get pretty much no videos really discussing it that have any large amount of views whatsoever.
Yeah, it's a Crowbcat nitpick video, but at least he straight up shows the comparisons. And it silently raises a valid point - was everything worth less efficient lighting in the long term, blockier weapon models with lower-resolution textures (but hey, you can repaint them, that makes everything better clearly :v:), and reduced visual flair? As technology improves, shouldn't a game be able to be better run through proper optimizations? And yet Team Fortress 2, running on a ten year old engine, becomes more and more bloated by the year and more and more of an unoptimized piece of shit as Valve puts in new updates, items and so forth in a somewhat slapdash fashion with a few pieces of MannCo brand duct tape plastered overtop to hold it together. This isn't even the Left 4 Dead 2 clause of the removal of survivor ragdolls for not making the Defib a pain in the ass / buggy, or removing visible legs due to optimization for consoles with all the excessive gore effects driving them to their limit.
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;52410938]but why, though
it's pretty unintuitive for an old game to need downgrades[/QUOTE]
The limitation's in the engine, not the hardware. Source's really being pushed to it's limit. Garry's mod is a pretty good example of this, spawn in a ton of explosive props and blow them up and it runs just as bad on a modern high-end system as it does on a high-end system from 2006
I don't see the deal with the lighting but the weapon animations are downright disgraceful, I would expect better from Valve.
The grunts made no sense because it was not even the voice actors. Every class had the same grunts
[QUOTE=Saxon;52410989]I don't see the deal with the lighting but the weapon animations are downright disgraceful, I would expect better from Valve.[/QUOTE]
It seems like for some reason no objects really seem to 'glow' or have a lot of brightness to them. Or at least not a lot of the older objects. It just seems a bit off for so many things to be darker for no good reason, especially since one of the standout elements of TF2's artstyle was the stark contrasting colors for easy identification. Something they went out of their way to establish after figuring that having everyone with darker, more pronounced shading pre-release wasn't quite efficient for gameplay purposes.
[QUOTE=Saphirx;52410947]was the 2007 version a pre-release copy, or did it actually ship with those placeholder grunt noises?[/QUOTE]
If you play the Xbox or ps3 version it feels like fucking pre release
It’s as barebones as it gets
[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;52410765]aren't the minigun/flamer downgrades so they can accept skins?[/QUOTE]
It's not because of skins. It was caused by this obsession they have with making everything into combined models.
The original Minigun viewmodel was scaled up and it was all mashed together to create a certain look.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ySfZY8Y.png[/img]
Combined models consolidate how it looks in the view and world so you can't do something like this with one.
The flamethrower one is a bit harder to tell what has actually happened. When they were moving everything over to combined models they would always base it off of the world model which was pretty low poly (They also managed to fuck up the UVs but that's been fixed now at least) and I assume in the process they managed to over write or just lost the original files from before they optimized everything for release so unlike every other weapon it's the only one that's been downgraded (model wise).
Honestly, the teaser makes me wish TF2 were a bit more mature than it ended up being, but that's just me.
[video]https://youtu.be/9gv3XmD7-rk[/video]
I get that feeling of 'too much dialogue' sometimes when compared to the less noisy environment of these trailers.
[video]https://youtu.be/h_c3iQImXZg[/video]
I could just be old at 20, but returning from a break after years of play makes me think the game got too cluttered.
[QUOTE=Wormy;52411049]Makes me kinda sad that the Xbox 360 version never received any of the PC updates. Valve were planning to add some, but it never happened because of system limitations and patch filesize restrictions by Microsoft.
They also removed console command mods from the game, which removed a lot of the fun from the game imo. PS3 still supports it since EA is responsible for the PS3 port.[/QUOTE]
From what I read in the day it was because Microsoft required valve to put a price tag on any major updates to pay for server and hosting cost (because these updates were in the gigabytes) and valve refused because it believed updates should be free and abandoned it
PS3 wise, that was when gabe fucking hated Sony and even when he had a love affair with them the orange box was still ignored because I think it was too late to update it and EA had the rights so it was a legal mess
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