Crowbcat - TF2 2007 and now - General

[QUOTE=redBadger;52411012]The grunts made no sense because it was not even the voice actors. Every class had the same grunts[/QUOTE] It does being up the question: Since the TF2 mercs has their own voice lines and their own grunts now, why not just implement it in fall damage? It would activate the small pain grunt, nothing too exaggerated.

[QUOTE=PsycheClops;52411132]It does being up the question: Since the TF2 mercy has their own voice lines and their own grunts now, why not just implement it in fall damage? It would activate the small pain grunt, nothing too exaggerated.[/QUOTE] Because why. Small changes aren’t ever gonna happen. They’ll update the game for major security and bug problems. The era of detail and all that shit ended years ago.

I think the worst part of this is the apaprent downgrade of weapon animations/details. Seems pointless, really.

[QUOTE=PsycheClops;52411132]It does being up the question: Since the TF2 mercs has their own voice lines and their own grunts now, why not just implement it in fall damage? It would activate the small pain grunt, nothing too exaggerated.[/QUOTE] You never know with the TF2 development team. No joke, it wasn't until early 2014 that Demoman, Soldier, Medic, and Spy finally got voice lines related to payload mode, even though the mode was added in the very first official content update, and the lines apparently had already been recorded around the same time. Worse, I think the Engineer is STILL missing them!

Honestly I miss the time when TF2 didn't have like a bazillion weapons and shit for each class and instead it was alot simpler, like if you want to keep up to date with all the shit that's been added to the game you have to have been playing it since the updates were coming out, because honestly I look at it now and it's barely even the same game I remember.

I thought it was normal for Valve to dial down on graphic fidelity and shader quality? Didn't they do that to CS:GO after it first released? I remember it being unplayable on my old toaster laptop, and after a few updates it worked fine with AA and post processing on. However that might just been optimization updates.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;52411202]I thought it was normal for Valve to dial down on graphic fidelity and shader quality? Didn't they do that to CS:GO after it first released? I remember it being unplayable on my old toaster laptop, and after a few updates it worked fine with AA and post processing on. However that might just been optimization updates.[/QUOTE] If that is the case, I wish they would have figured out a way to keep the high graphical fidelity stuff like the sapper gibs and water effects intact in the high graphics settings and disabled in the lower ones.

[QUOTE=GHOST!!!!;52411175]Honestly I miss the time when TF2 didn't have like a bazillion weapons and shit for each class and instead it was alot simpler, like if you want to keep up to date with all the shit that's been added to the game you have to have been playing it since the updates were coming out, because honestly I look at it now and it's barely even the same game I remember.[/QUOTE] The entire design philosophy of "everything must be very clear cut and recognizable" was erased over time and lost to badly done engine upgrades and a complete lack of caring for the visual presentation of the game.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;52411202]I thought it was normal for Valve to dial down on graphic fidelity and shader quality? Didn't they do that to CS:GO after it first released? I remember it being unplayable on my old toaster laptop, and after a few updates it worked fine with AA and post processing on. However that might just been optimization updates.[/QUOTE] The thing is TF2 runs way worse now. I remember that my Q6600 + 8800GT was able to run it way above 150FPS consistentely in 2008, yet dropped 40s/50s in 2016 with a GTX 560 and the same CPU. TF2 was stupidly polished at launch and with time, all that polish went away and the game from 2010 onwards always gave me the impression of something hacked together.

Generally speaking Valve has shown absolutely no respect for their own work and will just awkwardly hack shit together even if it breaks the games and what once was very conscious, very deliberate design choices.

[QUOTE=DasMatze;52410701]Is it? He shows off differences, he doesn't complain about it (not even in the description), it's up to the viewer. Most people are probably well aware of how the game changed in terms of gameplay but as someone who hasn't played the game for a long time, I haven't heard anything about these changes. I might had not even noticed it if I were still playing the game but I'm glad I can see a comparison video, because these changes seem absurd to me. I mean what are you gaining with this? [img]http://i.imgur.com/EDh1IPR.jpg[/img] [/QUOTE] The modern variant of Scout's face looks like it came out of a horrible GMod animation.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52411235]Generally speaking Valve has shown absolutely no respect for their own work and will just awkwardly hack shit together even if it breaks the games and what once was very conscious, very deliberate design choices.[/QUOTE] Fuck, let's take a look at the Illustrative Rendering in TF2 document: [url]http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2007/NPAR07_IllustrativeRenderingInTeamFortress2.pdf[/url] It demonstrates clear, concise, deliberate and very well thought-out design decisions. That publication may as well be toilet paper by now.

I was actually about to post the video on that: [video]https://youtu.be/ebvbVO1QE5o[/video]

[QUOTE=Talvy;52411277]I was actually about to post the video of that: [video]https://youtu.be/ebvbVO1QE5o[/video][/QUOTE] To this day, 2007's TF2's artstyle still impresses the hell out of me. I remember being completely in awe when I first caught sight of it when I first bought the orange box

[QUOTE=Wormy;52411049]Makes me kinda sad that the Xbox 360 version never received any of the PC updates. Valve were planning to add some, but it never happened because of system limitations and patch filesize restrictions by Microsoft. They also removed console command mods from the game, which removed a lot of the fun from the game imo. PS3 still supports it since EA is responsible for the PS3 port.[/QUOTE] Honestly they could probably very easily make a One / PS4 port, make it free-to-play, and rake in a ton of cash. But it's probably far too late for that.

I'm not sure how well these changes worked if they were for optimization, considering the game runs like ass on my GTX 570 nowadays, even though it ran just fine on an 8600 GTS (!!) ten years ago.

As someone who spent 3 years learning how to model by making weapons for TF2, i really hated how weapon models work. Like you said, at some point they switched from having two different models (an high poly model for fp animations and a low poly for thirdperson) to just a single model,this allows to put new weapons in without having to worry about making multiple versions, but personally i find it extremely lazy, not to mention that it was a pain to make custom weapons with custom animations, because you had to modify the general hand animation file instead of working directly with the viewmodel, this is why there are very few weapon mods with custom anims. Another problem was that since an animation was shared between multiple weapons, changing it for a custom weapon meant that it would break with any other weapon in the game. Oh and yeah, merging the models is the reason why extra detail like the revolver's cylinder spinning isn't there anymore.

[QUOTE=Batandy;52411521]As someone who spent 3 years learning how to model by making weapons for TF2, i really hated how weapon models work. Like you said, at some point they switched from having two different models (an high poly model for fp animations and a low poly for thirdperson) to just a single model,this allows to put new weapons in without having to worry about making multiple versions, but personally i find it extremely lazy, not to mention that it was a pain to make custom weapons with custom animations, because you had to modify the general hand animation file instead of working directly with the viewmodel, this is why there are very few weapon mods with custom anims. Another problem was that since an animation was shared between multiple weapons, changing it for a custom weapon meant that it would break with any other weapon in the game. Oh and yeah, merging the models is the reason why extra detail like the revolver's cylinder spinning isn't there anymore.[/QUOTE] Honestly the new weapon system makes my class reanimation projects sooo much easier

[QUOTE=GHOST!!!!;52411175]Honestly I miss the time when TF2 didn't have like a bazillion weapons and shit for each class and instead it was alot simpler, like if you want to keep up to date with all the shit that's been added to the game you have to have been playing it since the updates were coming out, because honestly I look at it now and it's barely even the same game I remember.[/QUOTE] TF2 was at its prime for me during the first wave of class updates. Working with people to get the achievements and try the new stuff are the fondest memories for me and each thing was reasonably different, but not objectively better, so you could alter your play style and still have fun.

[QUOTE=Paysus;52411529]Honestly the new weapon system makes my class reanimation projects sooo much easier[/QUOTE] It's alright for reanimating stock models and just completely killed getting weird with custom weapon models. It'd have been so much nicer if they stuck with V and W models and stuck the shared animations into a separate file that could be merged with the ones that'd work with it.

[QUOTE=LittleBabyman;52410927]except toybox[/QUOTE] toybox was fun

[QUOTE=Wormy;52411049]Makes me kinda sad that the Xbox 360 version never received any of the PC updates. Valve were planning to add some, but it never happened because of system limitations and patch filesize restrictions by Microsoft. They also removed console command mods from the game, which removed a lot of the fun from the game imo. PS3 still supports it since EA is responsible for the PS3 port.[/QUOTE] Honestly Xbox had it better since it updated while PS3 kept the most barebones among the rest plus it was EA. Even though the version was still fun, i played it for a year or two before getting a personal computer and there was a community which added clans with scrims etc.

I really miss early TF2.

[QUOTE=Destroyox;52411721]I really miss early TF2.[/QUOTE] After playing recently I really miss Engineer Update time. That's when I bought the game and that's when I think it was the best. I still remember the feeling of getting a weapon drop, melting it into scrap and combining that into refined metals and crafting a hat. Me and a friend of mine both did it at same time and got different hats and were so happy about it. It was the time when trading didn't exist yet, it was the Mac update time - Mac update came out and my friend was playing the game and then Engineer Update dropped. Man that was the time. When trading wasn't a thing and the game was literally just you and the weapons you got from achievements/drops and oh my God the excitement of a hat drop!

There is [b]so much[/b] you can focus on between 2007 / 2008 TF2 to show how things have changed for the worse, so many large and small changes to the game as a whole and the style and how things were balanced. Having over 20 reiterating fucking points on "[b]THEY CHANGED FROM V_MODELS / W_MODELS TO C_MODELS AND WE LOST DETAIL!!!!![/b]" is certainly [u]not[/u] the best way to convey that point though, fuck me. Almost every single thing he pointed out was for optimization purposes that came about as they kept adding new weapons into the game, just show that point like maybe 3 times at it's most extreme instead of just hammering on it 50 fucking times in a row, christ. Way to completely make an argument / video feel pretty much worthless when it could have been super informative. But, it's crowbcat. I can't lie and say I'm surprised that he tried to sensationalize something with as little effort as possible.

[QUOTE=Thatrandomuser;52411761]There is [b]so much[/b] you can focus on between 2007 / 2008 TF2 to show how things have changed for the worse, so many large and small changes to the game as a whole and the style and how things were balanced. Having over 20 reiterating fucking points on "[b]THEY CHANGED FROM V_MODELS / W_MODELS TO C_MODELS AND WE LOST DETAIL!!!!![/b]" is certainly [u]not[/u] the best way to convey that point though, fuck me. Almost every single thing he pointed out was for optimization purposes that came about as they kept adding new weapons into the game, just show that point like maybe 3 times at it's most extreme instead of just hammering on it 50 fucking times in a row, christ. Way to completely make an argument / video feel pretty much worthless when it could have been super informative. [B]But, it's crowbcat. I can't lie and say I'm surprised that he tried to sensationalize something with as little effort as possible.[/B][/QUOTE] He literally only showed a video demonstrating various differences and [I]that's it[/I]. At no point did he say 'wow look how bad the new version is!!!' or 'wow the old version was so good!!!' He left that up to you, the viewer to decide. I agree that the comparisons could have been better demonstrated but your point about him saying he's sensationalizing it is a bit silly in my opinion, he's just showing differences and that's it. [editline]28th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Jarokwa;52411877]tf2 is on life support anyway, i dont see how any of this matters[/QUOTE] So that means we shouldn't be interested in the progression or development of a game and it's life cycle?

[QUOTE=kill3r;52411888]I agree that the comparisons could have been better demonstrated but your point about him saying he's sensationalizing it is a bit silly in my opinion, he's just showing differences and that's it.[/QUOTE] Let's be honest, Crowbcat's acquired enough of a bad rep the past couple years with certain videos that now we sensationalize his sensationalizing.

[QUOTE=Thatrandomuser;52411761]But, it's crowbcat. I can't lie and say I'm surprised that he tried to sensationalize something with as little effort as possible.[/QUOTE] All the video shows is the graphical difference between TF2 2007 and current version, even the description points that out, no where does he share his opinion or criticize the current state of the game.

honestly valve should just throw TF2 and CSGO on Source 2 already, essentially rebuilt from the ground up. they already did it for dota and it would be a good way to see how FPS would work on their engine since the Hammer for Dota 2 only does RTS style maps currently. I think they are waiting for L4D3 to be out first though. Valve loves it's flagship games for new engines.

Motherfucker. Every time I go demo with the bottle I try to break it, and always fail to do so, thinking that all this time I was misremembering things and that the bottle was never breakable. God dammit Valve.