No mosque at ground zero - General

[QUOTE=Micr0;24474924]Who really gives an honest fuck? So what if there are gunna be muslims near the ground zero? So what if they build a [B][highlight]COMMUNITY CENTER[/highlight][/B] close to ground zero? WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG FUCKING DEAL?[/QUOTE] I don't care what it is, what are the true intentions of it's creators, or what's the opinion of the USA citizens. All I know is that somewhere out there, at least one misinformed Muslim is going say "And after we destroyed it, we built a temple there" and he's going to be proud of it. So really if it's supposed to be about peace the people who want to build it should have the decency to stop, even if the people arguing against it may be ignorant.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;24481212] An appropriate example would be building a baseball stadium (decorated with as much star spangled banners and hot dogs and crosses as possible) right next to Hiroshima, a couple years after the nuke was detonated. The Japanese would probably react the exact same way as Americans are doing now.[/QUOTE] that's a terrible example the entire country went to war with japan; only a very very small fraction of the Muslim community went to war with America and keep in mind - the United States occupied Japan for the next 60 years, after the war we even changed their educational system and things like that - so we did do something similar to your scenerio [QUOTE=Populus89;24481311]I don't care what it is, what are the true intentions of it's creators, or what's the opinion of the USA citizens. All I know is that somewhere out there, at least one misinformed Muslim is going say "And after we destroyed it, we built a temple there" and he's going to be proud of it. So really if it's supposed to be about peace the people who want to build it should have the decency to stop, even if the people arguing against it may be ignorant.[/QUOTE] that's a great reason to deny a religious community the right to practice their beliefs in the LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE AGAIN - the 19 hijackers have nothing to do with the entire Islamic religion. to punish the majority of Muslims for the actions of the few would be going against the very beliefs that America was built on and it's not a fucking mosque

Lets bomb the mosque, then we'll be even.

[QUOTE=thegrb93;24481533]Lets bomb the mosque, then we'll be even.[/QUOTE] oh yes, bombing people who had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks is a good idea i hope you never have the opportunity to influence domestic policy

The mosque is actually being built two blocks away from Ground Zero, and is only being built there because it is relatively cheap real estate in New York. A chunk of one of the planes actually fell through the roof.

[QUOTE=siberpredaht;24481414]that's a terrible example the entire country went to war with japan; only a very very small fraction of the Muslim community went to war with America and keep in mind - the United States occupied Japan for the next 60 years, after the war we even changed their educational system and things like that - so we did do something similar to your scenerio[/quote] A very small fraction of the American community bombed Hiroshima too. What's your point? And the country that the terrorists originated from are also made to think that Islam is the only way of life, and therefore in the same case as a whole nation. [quote]that's a great reason to deny a religious community the right to practice their beliefs in the LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE AGAIN - the 19 hijackers have nothing to do with the entire Islamic religion. to punish the majority of Muslims for the actions of the few would be going against the very beliefs that America was built on and it's not a fucking mosque[/QUOTE] They are not against the community centre in general, they are against it being built so close to ground zero. Relying on it being purely coincidence is completly ignorant and idiotic. The best case scenario that I see is to allow the community centre to be constructed, but as far away as it needs to be from ground zero to leave it purely as an act of building a community centre for the group that it was intended for. [QUOTE=Thrasher1018;24481657]The mosque is actually being built two blocks away from Ground Zero, and is only being built there because it is relatively cheap real estate in New York. A chunk of one of the planes actually fell through the roof.[/QUOTE] Now that is a reason I can understand. Yet still a gamble, even for the safety of the recipients of the community centre. I can imagine members of the centre being singled out and beat up in a dark alley just because of their association with the centre and religious ideologies.

There are 1.3-1.8 billion muslims in the world. If they were terrorists the world should have been totally annihilated by now.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;24481672]A very small fraction of the American community bombed Hiroshima too. What's your point?[/quote] no - the U.S. army bombed Hiroshima, that's a fucking country if you didn't know now, if Islam was a country and their government's military flew the planes into the WTC and every Muslim in the United States from this country of Islam. then they wanted to build a monument or some shit to Islam THAT would make sensee [QUOTE=Leintharien;24481672] And the country that the terrorists originated from are also made to think that Islam is the only way of life, and therefore in the same case as a whole nation.[/quote] you're only revealing your ignorance by talking. your statement explains why there are SUNNIS, SHIITES, AL QAEDA the TALIBAN, right? all differing views about Islam. all different views about Islam's influence in the world. it isn't "one country", that's simply an ignorant American's idea about the Muslim religion. [QUOTE=Leintharien;24481672] They are not against the community centre in general, they are against it being built so close to ground zero. Relying on it being purely coincidence is completly ignorant and idiotic. The best case scenario that I see is to allow the community centre to be constructed, but as far away as it needs to be from ground zero to leave it purely as an act of building a community centre for the group that it was intended for.[/QUOTE] again. the extremists who attacked the country on 9/11 have absolutely no connection to the majority of Muslims in the world. Muslim-Americans and many Muslims overseas have denounced the 9/11 attacks on various occasions. making the argument that people are "hurt" by this Mosque being so close to ground zero is an argument out of ignorance, as again, this "mosque" has no relation to the terrorists WHATSOEVER

[QUOTE=siberpredaht;24481878][B]no - the U.S. army bombed Hiroshima, that's a fucking country if you didn't know[/B] now, if Islam was a country and their government's military flew the planes into the WTC and every Muslim in the United States from this country of Islam. then they wanted to build a monument or some shit to Islam THAT would make sensee you're only revealing your ignorance by talking. your statement explains why there are SUNNIS, SHIITES, AL QAEDA the TALIBAN, right? all differing views about Islam. all different views about Islam's influence in the world. it isn't "one country", that's simply an ignorant American's idea about the Muslim religion. again. the extremists who attacked the country on 9/11 have absolutely no connection to the majority of Muslims in the world. Muslim-Americans and many Muslims overseas have denounced the 9/11 attacks on various occasions. making the argument that people are "hurt" by this Mosque being so close to ground zero is an argument out of ignorance, as again, this "mosque" has no relation to the terrorists WHATSOEVER[/QUOTE] I am sorry, but I stopped reading right at that bolded part. You're saying that the ENTIRE us army just went up in planes and went to go bomb Hiroshima? What a joke. If not then I don't understand how you managed to completely misread what I said about a portion of America, that portion being a SINGLE PLANE, causing genocide on a undefended and unknowing civilian population. I'm done trying to argue with stupid for today.

I'm against the Mosque by Ground Zero. Then again, I'm against Mosques everywhere. And Churches and Synagogues.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;24481212]They aren't against the community centre for a sanctuary for muslims, they're against it because it happens to be coincidentally next to a crime that their religion recently committed previously. An appropriate example would be building a baseball stadium (decorated with as much star spangled banners and hot dogs and crosses as possible) right next to Hiroshima, a couple years after the nuke was detonated. The Japanese would probably react the exact same way as Americans are doing now.[/QUOTE] I understand being against it. I don't understand trying to get the government to move the mosque or preventing its construction. Basic liberties can not be overridden be hurt feelings. It's the same reason the Westboro Baptist Church are allowed to preach outside funerals.

Don't let them build there, and by the same token don't let ANY other religion build there because no matter how you try to justify it, putting a place of worship next to ground zero is just grabbing for attention and cheapens both parties.

[QUOTE=Naota1248;24482260]I'm against the Mosque by Ground Zero. Then again, I'm against Mosques everywhere. And Churches and Synagogues.[/QUOTE] There is no Mosque, it's simply a Muslim prayer center that takes up the top two floors of the community center/culinary school. It isn't even going to BE at Ground Zero, it's going to be five fucking blocks away. You won't even be able to see it from ground zero. [editline]12:04AM[/editline] [QUOTE=splitsticks;24482275]Don't let them build there, and by the same token don't let ANY other religion build there because no matter how you try to justify it, putting a place of worship next to ground zero is just grabbing for attention and cheapens both parties.[/QUOTE] Too late there, pal. There are already religious centers within proximity of ground zero.

[QUOTE=MrAfroShark70;24474422]First of all he is misinformed and needs to understand that the mosque is what, 10 blocks away from Ground Zero? Number two, he sounds like he knows fucking everything about America. Number three, it's not insensitive, it's not like they're going to say, BURN DOWN THE CAPITALIST PIGS, they just built it there to show not every Muslim is "evil" and to promot tolerance. Fourth, there is a person funding this project. I found FOUR errors in the first 1:30. I'm not continuing trying to prove this guy wrong and has no fucking valid points.[/QUOTE] 4ish blocks

Building mosque =/= burning American flag on the graves of dead americans. Two islams: One of Peace and one of Violence. This mosque is not one of violence, which is to say: allowing this mosque =/= increase terrorist attacks. ALSO HEY, LETS FORGET THAT INNOCENT MUSLIMS WERE ALSO IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTERS WHEN THEY WERE STRUCK AND GROUP THE ENTIRE RELIGION INTO ONE EMPIRE-ESQUE CONSPIRACY THEORY AGAINST FREEDOM! I mean geez leweeze, why let the german government run Auschwitz, OF COURSE THEY KNOW ITS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO THE JEWS! All this guy fucking preaches is hate.

[QUOTE=Viephemeral;24482272]I understand being against it. I don't understand trying to get the government to move the mosque or preventing its construction. Basic liberties can not be overridden be hurt feelings. It's the same reason the Westboro Baptist Church are allowed to preach outside funerals.[/QUOTE] I understand this. Yet I also understand that people in a democratic country will try to push a majority rule over the muslim as far as they can. I guess we will have to just wait it out and see what will really happen, but knowing the stubbornness of the locals, I don't think that any resolution will happen for a while.

[QUOTE=Neolk;24483337]Building mosque =/= burning American flag on the graves of dead americans. Two islams: One of Peace and one of Violence. This mosque is not one of violence, which is to say: allowing this mosque =/= increase terrorist attacks. ALSO HEY, LETS FORGET THAT INNOCENT MUSLIMS WERE ALSO IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTERS WHEN THEY WERE STRUCK AND GROUP THE ENTIRE RELIGION INTO ONE EMPIRE-ESQUE CONSPIRACY THEORY AGAINST FREEDOM! I mean geez leweeze, why let the german government run Auschwitz, OF COURSE THEY KNOW ITS A SLAP IN THE FACE TO THE JEWS! All this guy fucking preaches is hate.[/QUOTE] It's a community centre, not a mosque.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;24483436]It's a community centre, not a mosque.[/QUOTE] Yes. But even if it WAS a mosque that still isn't a reason to reject it.

This is kinda confusing for me. I've been here since '06 or '07, but I've never seen FP talk about "Islamisation" or whatever until recently. The strangest thing is that a lot of people here actually believe that Muslims are to blame. That they are intentionally "taking over Europe" and that they "must be stopped". Did I miss something here?

[QUOTE=Jund;24483567]This is kinda confusing for me. I've been here since '06 or '07, but I've never seen FP talk about "Islamisation" or whatever until recently. The strangest thing is that a lot of people here actually believe that Muslims are to blame. That they are intentionally "taking over Europe" and that they "must be stopped". Did I miss something here?[/QUOTE] It's just situational I think. There have been quite a bit of threads on documentaries about Islam and Muslims lately now that I think about it.

I could care less

There are about a billion and a half Muslims in the world. Less than 10,000 are terrorists. That's less than .1%. What the actual fuck. If there was a guy prancing around saying that black people should be treated differently and have their liberties taken away because one black person robbed a store then everyone would be all over his ass. I don't get it any more.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;24482052]I am sorry, but I stopped reading right at that bolded part. You're saying that the ENTIRE us army just went up in planes and went to go bomb Hiroshima? What a joke. If not then I don't understand how you managed to completely misread what I said about a portion of America, that portion being a SINGLE PLANE, causing genocide on a undefended and unknowing civilian population. I'm done trying to argue with stupid for today.[/QUOTE] i'm not surprised that you don't understand; your obviously dull witted and were probably dropped on your head on a child there is something called a chain of command, it goes like this: there is this country (the United States) and in this country the people elect a leader. the leader is the commander in chief. this commander in chief is the head of the military. the air force bombed the city of hiroshima, with orders from the commander in chief, elected by the people. (well actually, in this case the president at the time wasn't elected, but you get the point). so there is an obvious chain of command involving millions of people. this chain of command is not present in "islam". islam is not a country, yes it encompasses millions of people, but there is no clear chain of command that sets the precedent for these millions of followers. there are chain of commands for different sects, countries, etc. the extremists chain of command does not involve millions of people, it is a very minute percentage of the muslim population. to punish the millions of muslims for the act of the few (keep in mind, the majority of muslims condemn these terrorist act) is not only unconstitutional, it is immoral.

[QUOTE=siberpredaht;24484204]i'm not surprised that you don't understand; your obviously dull witted and were probably dropped on your head on a child[/quote] Attack the post on the poster. [quote] there is something called a chain of command, it goes like this: there is this country (the United States) and in this country the people elect a leader. the leader is the commander in chief. this commander in chief is the head of the military. the air force bombed the city of hiroshima, with orders from the commander in chief, elected by the people. (well actually, in this case the president at the time wasn't elected, but you get the point). so there is an obvious chain of command involving millions of people.[/quote] Poor logic because of the electoral college system - small sates votes are worth more aka: if I lived in rhode island my vote is worth more than If I lived in California, addtionally, electing official's does not support all their decisions, just most. Obama is the president, you can't say, "all of America wants Health Care". [quote] this chain of command is not present in "islam". islam is not a country, yes it encompasses millions of people, but there is no clear chain of command that sets the precedent for these millions of followers. there are chain of commands for different sects, countries, etc. the extremists chain of command does not involve millions of people, it is a very minute percentage of the muslim population. to punish the millions of muslims for the act of the few (keep in mind, the majority of muslims condemn these terrorist act) is not only unconstitutional, it is immoral.[/QUOTE] Agree

[QUOTE=TropicalV2;24474036][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4&feature=related[/media] Pat Condell brings up incredibly valid points.[/QUOTE] "The religion that killed them". What an idiot. (Edit: maybe just an idiotic statement, it seems people here find him reasonable for most of the time aside from this) Pretend Muslims are black people and mosques are black culture centers. That would be some extreme racism that a large amount of Americans would be committing, why is is not considered that when it's a religion?

[QUOTE=Neolk;24484483]Attack the post on the poster.[/quote] he started it :) [QUOTE=Neolk;24484483] Poor logic because of the electoral college system - small sates votes are worth more aka: if I lived in rhode island my vote is worth more than If I lived in California, addtionally, electing official's does not support all their decisions, just most. Obama is the president, you can't say, "all of America wants Health Care".[/quote] it was a very dumbed down version of our electoral process, my point remains the same, sorry for not being elaborate about it, lol [QUOTE=Neolk;24484483] Agree[/QUOTE] sweet

The guy in the video is a retarded fuck.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/SA5kz.gif[/img]

A few yards? .....

[QUOTE=Naota1248;24482260]I'm against the Mosque by Ground Zero. Then again, I'm against Mosques everywhere. And Churches and Synagogues.[/QUOTE] Valid point there chaps, this view will surely stand if opposed. [editline]03:11PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Alcapwne;24486298]The guy in the video is a retarded fuck.[/QUOTE] He's a middle class biggot.