Woah guys I just talked to the president. He says it's going to be built RIGHT where the twin towers were destroyed. The community centre is actually just going to be a mosque, and everyone who goes to the building will recieve special c4 vests for their very own religious assaults on the rest of the city. Everything is going to be funded by American tax dollars too.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;24507785]There will most likely be another arson, but it won't benefit both sides at all.[/QUOTE]
I wish I could agree more than once, because this is a VERY likely outcome. I'm almost waiting for something to happen when the mosque gets built. Whats scares me is that if the mosque does get burnt down, those very extremists may find this as more reason to rage against the US, and tensions between the two will only increase. I sure do hope we won't have another "confrontation"...
[QUOTE=Run&Gun12;24508222]I wish I could agree more than once, because this is a VERY likely outcome. I'm almost waiting for something to happen when the mosque gets built. Whats scares me is that if the mosque does get burnt down, those very extremists may find this as more reason to rage against the US, and tensions between the two will only increase. I sure do hope we won't have another "confrontation"...[/QUOTE]
i think you may be overreacting
[QUOTE=combine487;24508638]i think you may be overreacting[/QUOTE]
Not so. US intelligence said that simply not building the community center/mosque might allow extremist to make new propaganda. Having something terrible happen to it after it's construction would be a bit worse.
I really didn't want to pull this out but...
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;24507128]Maybe they don't see anything wrong with it? It's not like if it were a jihad recruiting center/bomb factory.
Read Qu'ran 5:69.
Sounds slightly more accepting than the other religions.[/QUOTE]
Ok... let's see
"[5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."
Now lets look at the meanings of other verses:
"
[LIST=1]
[*]Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
[*]Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
[*]Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
[*]Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86
[*]Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a a painful doom. 5:94
[*]After agreeing to send down a table of food from heaven, Jesus warns his disciples that will catch holy hell if they ever stop believing. 5:115
[*]Those who deny the truth of Islam will be punished by Allah. 6:5
[*]"See the nature of the consequence for the rejecters!" 6:11
[*]"Those who ruin their souls will not believe." 6:12, 20
[*]Disbelievers will say when they see the Fire that they would have believed if they had known the truth. But they are all liars. 6:27-28
[*]Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49
[*]Stay away from those who "meddle with" or mock the Quran. 6:68
[*]Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70
[*]When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93
[*]Stay away from idolaters. 6:106
[*]Allah confounds the hearts and eyes of unbelievers. 6:110
[*]Most unbelievers are ignorant. 6:111
[*]Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113
[*]The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157
[*]Disbelievers lose their souls. 7:9”
[/LIST]
Yeah... this is really accepting.
Oh and the list goes on and on, but hey you can find the rest of it out in your own free time.
Perhaps this will give some of you guys an idea of why us "Biggots" don't exactly agree with the ideology of this religion.
OH and by the way, later verses of the Qu'ran ALWAYS override previous ones in case you didn't know.
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;24508915]I really didn't want to pull this out but...
Ok... let's see
"[5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."
Now lets look at the meanings of other verses:
"
[LIST=1]
[*]Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
[*]Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
[*]Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
[*]Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86
[*]Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a a painful doom. 5:94
[*]After agreeing to send down a table of food from heaven, Jesus warns his disciples that will catch holy hell if they ever stop believing. 5:115
[*]Those who deny the truth of Islam will be punished by Allah. 6:5
[*]"See the nature of the consequence for the rejecters!" 6:11
[*]"Those who ruin their souls will not believe." 6:12, 20
[*]Disbelievers will say when they see the Fire that they would have believed if they had known the truth. But they are all liars. 6:27-28
[*]Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49
[*]Stay away from those who "meddle with" or mock the Quran. 6:68
[*]Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70
[*]When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93
[*]Stay away from idolaters. 6:106
[*]Allah confounds the hearts and eyes of unbelievers. 6:110
[*]Most unbelievers are ignorant. 6:111
[*]Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113
[*]The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157
[*]Disbelievers lose their souls. 7:9”
[/LIST]
Yeah... this is really accepting.
Oh and the list goes on and on, but hey you can find the rest of it out in your own free time.
Perhaps this will give some of you guys an idea of why us "Biggots" don't exactly agree with the ideology of this religion.
OH and by the way, later verses of the Qu'ran ALWAYS override previous ones in case you didn't know.[/QUOTE]
That just says that their religion doesn't believe that non-believers will get into their paradise (aka the same as Christianity, only worded a little different). I think you'll find similar stuff in the old testament.
[QUOTE=HiddenMyst;24511998]That just says that their religion doesn't believe that non-believers will get into their paradise (aka the same as Christianity, only worded a little different). I think you'll find similar stuff in the old testament.[/QUOTE]
christianity deals with the gospel section of the bible, which is all the positive stuff :eng101:
Well he has some good points, but many are not valid, seeing that Bush did 9/11 kthxbai.
(Fuck islamisation)
Muslims =/= Terrorists
[editline]04:56PM[/editline]
No valid points.
[QUOTE=Run&Gun12;24507260]
Democracy is highly based upon public opinion, what the people want. It's how we elect leaders and government officials, it how we decide what propositions should take place, you could almost say it navigates the course of the nation. While it would be a little outlandish to have a vote or hearing on the building of a place of worship, on this special occasion, it may would have been deemed like a justifiable course of action, but I assume the government would follow protocol, and you really can't blame them for that.[/QUOTE]
Pure democracy is not that great, letting a mob do whatever it likes is exactly what those who defend the mosque are arguing against.
Democracy is a fine way to select officials, but its power ends where individual rights begin.
Thats why most democracies have a constitution.
A majority has no right to vote a mans life away, his property away, or his rights away.
Something isn't right or just Simpy because 51% of people want it.
[QUOTE=Archy;24512083]christianity deals with the gospel section of the bible, which is all the positive stuff :eng101:[/QUOTE]
No.
basically anyone who says they are against the community center are revealing how much of an idiot they are
[QUOTE=HiddenMyst;24511998]That just says that their religion doesn't believe that non-believers will get into their paradise (aka the same as Christianity, only worded a little different). I think you'll find similar stuff in the old testament.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Archy;24512083]christianity deals with the gospel section of the bible, which is all the positive stuff :eng101:[/QUOTE]
What the hell are you guys going on about? Did I even mention the word Christianity?
If you really want to make it a religion vs religion debate then:
Bible = many authors, different interpretations.
Qu'ran = ONE author, ONE interpretation, threatening hellfire if you do not read it the one way Muhammad wants you to. Actually, you can't even interpret it, because it IT IS A DIRECT SET OF INSTRUCTIONS.
Early verses preach peace, later ones preach violence... later verses [highlight]OVERRIDE[/highlight] the early ones!
I don't know what it would take for people to realize that extremists are not really extremists at all, but they are EXTREMELY conservative in reading the Quran and take it literally (as it was probably meant to be). The moderate Muslims that many of you guys say "make up the majority of the religion" are very liberal about their readings because they know when not to go too far like most people who live in today's society, and they can be good people.
But sadly, I just don't see how they can really be accepted ESPECIALLY if they support Sharia law. Nobody has the right to force an entire law system onto the world, let alone one that would punish every person who has beliefs that differ from the conservative Quran.
It would be completely wrong to try and change their beliefs because they should have the right to freely practice their religion/beliefs, and I fully agree with that. BUT the conservative group of Muslims should also accept the fact that we have the same rights as they do while we live within our own countries (USA, European countries, etc...). Hell maybe they do know that, and that is why they are trying to destroy us?
Again, I'm sorry if I have offended anyone (who isn't already plotting to kill everyone). I know that Muslims should not be generalized into one group because everyone is an individual. I'm not being racist, I am only stating what I have seen and heard from many different sources, and this is my own opinion based off of what little reason I can make of this whole mess.
The reason I am even saying this crap is because I don't think you guys are taking this as seriously as you should. This is starting to sound more like a joke to BOTH sides/parties involved. I'm just... ugh /rage.
Back on topic: I'm not entirely against the "community center", but I do not think that it would be a good idea to build it in that area. If just the thought of it sparks so much controversy, what do you think will happen once it is built there? Somehow, the word "chaos theory" comes to mind.
[QUOTE=plazzydan;24522383]basically anyone who says they are against the community center are revealing how much of an idiot they are[/QUOTE]
Your avitar is quite fitting :v:
he talks British and is old he must know what he's talking about
America are really shooting themselves in the foot. Also I love his views on religion.
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;24526614]What the hell are you guys going on about? Did I even mention the word Christianity?
If you really want to make it a religion vs religion debate then:
Bible = many authors, different interpretations.
Qu'ran = ONE author, ONE interpretation, threatening hellfire if you do not read it the one way Muhammad wants you to. Actually, you can't even interpret it, because it IT IS A DIRECT SET OF INSTRUCTIONS.
Early verses preach peace, later ones preach violence... later verses [highlight]OVERRIDE[/highlight] the early ones!:[/QUOTE]
Just because it was written by one person, it doesn't mean it's not open to interpretation.
And as I said, those verses relate to the Islamic afterlife, not their current world. It's the same as many religion's version of hell.
[QUOTE=Chilean;24527261]he talks British and is old he must know what he's talking about[/QUOTE]
He's on facepunch and he's from Chile, he must know what he is talking about.
Than again, we are not here to throw our opinions at each other in hopes of convincing eachother, this debate is here for those who are undecided.
Look it's 2am in the UK and I wanted to sleep but I put my eyes over this and what do I see the same BS about how building a mosque could cause further tensions and it might lead to more anger because of arson attacks.
Wake up and smell the coffee because it takes more then jsut a shitty few arson attakcs to trigger of people. Shit happens like this and sometimes someone will get pissed about it but 99% of the time they will calm down and then everyone talks.
Let me tell you something about Islam for starters it is a religion, it states that there is one god and that muhammed is his messagener. It is not a book that is filled with hate and anger and allt eh other BS I have heard. All holy book will usually have double meaning because of the way they are written. They alternate between the 2 because it shows to the people who read it what is adviseable. This books are and I quote a guide book.
They are not there to force you to listen to them and they say the same message over and over. Be decent with each-other, don't be pricks and assholes and try to live a balanced life. Whatever you believe the quran teaches common sense not some outlandish sceme to take over the world. All I am trying to say is that sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.
Firstly most of these so called terrorists are acutally people who have been riled up by the local priest, most major religions have had presists or whatever you call them talk about victory and strength by misquoting those books. Next what happens is that these people are full of hate and they are set on their way to people who are criminal and use these people to launder money and then they give them some shitty tips and a pat on the back and sent to the nearest place to blow themselfs up. You know what the sad thing is, the ones that are caught before they do it have to be depreogammed and that's where the peaceful groups of that relgion come in.
They have to get these people back from the edge because apparently someone fucked their head up with shit and then they have to do all the nesscary work so these people come back to normality and realise what they have done. Most of the fuckers who program these people to blow themselfs up are still residing in their lovely places because they can cover their asses because they can say it's not me.
A mosque is a bulding and it is there to worship god like any other building. Now the one in New York is being build because it's designed to try and show everyone including other muslims that the future is tolrence. It's some plot to take over the world. Also all relgion would have to have the most followers, it like a bussiness you should know this. Of course they are going to compete for people but what most of them are not aiming to do is spread hate because they don't want shit at their door and they have lives. A muslim christian, jew are not diferent hey only say things different but the thing they have in xoomin is the same a basic message. Don't be a fucking prick.
Also if you really think there is terrorist plot in a mosque then call the relevant authorites and they will ahve agents inside the mosque to investigate. 9/10 they will find something if it is there.
Finally don't be frightined of exttremeists, like the Westboro Bastist Chruch, they are trolls and if you give them attention then they will shit all over your ideas. They are garbage and evanually they will shut up. Counties are working to deal with this but still be patient and that's it.
[QUOTE=Hostel;24506976]So are we still stuck on the superficial fantasy that building this is actually a symbolic display of religious freedom in the United States?[/QUOTE]
What is it then?
[QUOTE=Elspin;24475098]For those of you that just don't get it, the reason people are upset is because they don't know the difference between a muslim extremist and a plain old muslim. People informed about this know it's alright, but the point is that many families are still gonna be upset because they don't.
If they really want to make a difference the news should stop exploiting the misinformed americans and instead tell them that just like the christian extremists who run camps screaming at very young children that jesus is the only way, these were extremists. News reporters are gonna milk this for all it's worth though.[/QUOTE]
Actually this is where you, and many other misinformed, are wrong. Those who you call "Muslim Extremists" are actually proper muslims and those who you call "plain old muslim" do not follow the Muslim doctrine close enough to recieve any benefit. In the Qu'ran it explicitly states that 1. All sayings are to be taken as they are written and no meaning is to be read into them and 2. If two points collide then the point found later in the book overrides the first.
The peaceful part of the religion is found at the start, the take over the world slowly and lie/cheat/kill your way to muslim success at the expense of any non-muslim is at the end. Guess what, the end parts override the first parts.
So tbh all those preaching equality and all that nonsense can go fuck themselves. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you need to read the Qu'ran before you start forming your opinions. This guy is completely correct. The muslim religion is just as bad as the Nazi regime, if not worse, yet it hides beneath the veil of religion in this PC world.
The fact that many of you disregarded this guy's points with your misinformed opinions that, if not stamped out, will one day spell the end of western culture and civilisation, sickens me to the core.
I don't get what you're all so angry about, It's just a fucking pile of bricks in the end.
[QUOTE=TehBlueOne;24531740]I don't get what you're all so angry about, It's just a fucking pile of bricks in the end.[/QUOTE]
and in the end Hitler was simply a complex formation of atoms but that hardly made him less of a threat now did it
It's opinions like this, fuelled by the idiocratic facet of modern society that is commonly known as "acceptance", that will spell the end of the kind of future those of western civilisations see.
[QUOTE=Lightbourne;24531903]and in the end Hitler was simply a complex formation of atoms but that hardly made him less of a threat now did it?[/QUOTE]
At least a pile of bricks isn't hurting anyone, now is it?
[QUOTE=TehBlueOne;24531933]At least a pile of bricks isn't hurting anyone, now is it?[/QUOTE]
Use a bit of logic. It wasn't Hitler himself that hurt anyone, much like how the bricks making the building won't hurt anyone directly, it was his beliefs and willpower that fuelled the deaths of many and war of nations. The same is true of the religion that has ordered these bricks to be laid.
Surely you can't try and smart-mouth your way out of that one.
[QUOTE=TehBlueOne;24531740]I don't get what you're all so angry about, It's just a fucking pile of bricks in the end.[/QUOTE]
Seriously. Just let them build the thing and go back to your own country Pat.
[QUOTE=Lightbourne;24531997]Use a bit of logic. It wasn't Hitler himself that hurt anyone, much like how the bricks making the building won't hurt anyone directly, it was his beliefs and willpower that fuelled the deaths of many and war of nations. The same is true of the religion that has ordered these bricks to be laid.
Surely you can't try and smart-mouth your way out of that one.[/QUOTE]
Nope :v:
But really, I don't see what is wrong at all about a mosque within 10 blocks of ground zero.
[QUOTE=TehBlueOne;24532190]Nope :v:
But really, I don't see what is wrong at all about a mosque within 10 blocks of ground zero.[/QUOTE]
Go and read the Qu'ran
and if you can't be bothered doing that then your opinion should not be voiced.
[QUOTE=Lightbourne;24532262]Go and read the Qu'ran
and if you can't be bothered doing that then your opinion should not be voiced.[/QUOTE]
Religious texts have no place in my life so I'd rather not
[QUOTE=TehBlueOne;24532373]Religious texts have no place in my life so I'd rather not[/QUOTE]
I don't know how old you are but, damn, you're stupid. If you read it and understood what was said within the text you'd see that the Muslim religion is destined to play an extremely large part of your life. Fool.
[QUOTE=Lightbourne;24531679]Actually this is where you, and many other misinformed, are wrong. Those who you call "Muslim Extremists" are actually proper muslims and those who you call "plain old muslim" do not follow the Muslim doctrine close enough to recieve any benefit. In the Qu'ran it explicitly states that 1. All sayings are to be taken as they are written and no meaning is to be read into them and 2. If two points collide then the point found later in the book overrides the first.
The peaceful part of the religion is found at the start, the take over the world slowly and lie/cheat/kill your way to muslim success at the expense of any non-muslim is at the end. Guess what, the end parts override the first parts.
So tbh all those preaching equality and all that nonsense can go fuck themselves. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you need to read the Qu'ran before you start forming your opinions. This guy is completely correct. The muslim religion is just as bad as the Nazi regime, if not worse, yet it hides beneath the veil of religion in this PC world.
The fact that many of you disregarded this guy's points with your misinformed opinions that, if not stamped out, will one day spell the end of western culture and civilisation, sickens me to the core.[/QUOTE]
:godwin:
[editline]07:15PM[/editline]
Present your point of view in a way that doesn't sound like fear-mongering please.
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