it's funny the he brings up kong's director; the very first thing i did when i saw his tweets was link him to bobvids' deconstructions of cinemasins. he liked my tweet so maybe he's out there right now watching this video too
[QUOTE=Asaratha;52887227]"it's just a joke"
"some is valid tho"
"but they arent here to review"
"some is valid tho"
cinemasins is the embodiment of "jokes on you i was only pretending to be retarded"[/QUOTE]
Well you can take it seriously or you don't. People taking things too seriously is more of the issue imho. That being said, I can't see this having a significant impact on the movie industry, or people in general. If stupid content makes people laugh, then they have a formula that works, even if it is stupid
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887030]It's not supposed to be taken seriously, of course these two videos apparently prove that as false (I don't see how, maybe that makes me stupid), but you know, I don't take it seriously. [B]They're videos on the internet. It sucks if people are taking it seriously, but I don't think that's CinemaSins's fault[/B]
[editline]13th November 2017[/editline]
Of course the video knew how people were going to respond. If you go round waving a swastika in Germany, you can probably predict how people would respond too, doesn't mean they're wrong though[/QUOTE]
You heard it here first folks, videos that are on the internet are inherently less serious.
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887030]It's not supposed to be taken seriously, of course these two videos apparently prove that as false (I don't see how, maybe that makes me stupid), but you know, I don't take it seriously. They're videos on the internet. It sucks if people are taking it seriously, but [B]I don't think that's CinemaSins's fault[/B]
[/QUOTE]
If you watched the video, you would know that this is CinemaSins's direct, [I]explicit[/I] intent of their videos, and that they deliberately include both valid criticisms, and also abject misinformation disguised as valid criticism. It's often subtle misinformation that's not clearly a joke. There's no way to construe that as the strict fault of the viewers, because it's literally the intent of the creators.
You specifically said this:
[QUOTE]I really enjoy CinemaSins videos, some of their criticism is completely valid[/QUOTE]
You watch their videos with the expectation of finding completely valid criticisms along with jokes. Okay, but what about the points that are abjectly wrong, but not clearly jokes? Sometimes they distinguish between blatant fucking around and criticism, but most of the video is subtle misinformation made to look like legit criticism. They specifically make the misinformation hard to find so they can have the defense of "any time I make a criticism that ignores context and facts I can claim it was satire all along".
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52887228]People finding happiness in being misinformed leads to the world being a stupider and less happy place. [/QUOTE]
I mean it seems pretty obvious to me that it's not really supposed to be taken seriously, obviously the original videos think that's not true, but at the end of the day these are opinions. If I showed these videos to any of my friends, they wouldn't take it seriously. Especially when you're seeing him review a movie you've already watched, and can easily see that some of the points are just nitpicking.
I really doubt that these videos are going to have that much of a significant impact, though. No more than negative reviews do on great movies
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52887268]If you watched the video, you would know that this is CinemaSins's direct, [I]explicit[/I] intent of their videos, and that they deliberately include both valid criticisms, and also abject misinformation disguised as valid criticism. There's no way to construe that as the strict fault of the viewers, because it's literally the intent of the creators.
You specifically said this:
You watch their videos with the expectation of finding completely valid criticisms along with jokes. Okay, but what about the points that are abjectly wrong, but not clearly jokes? Sometimes they distinguish between blatant fucking around and criticism, but most of the video is subtle misinformation made to look like legit criticism. They specifically make the misinformation hard to find so they can have the defense of "any time I make a criticism that ignores context and facts I can claim it was satire all along".[/QUOTE]
I find even the legit stuff a joke, I'm not watching the videos as reviews, I'm watching them as humor. If you're watching it as a review then there's obviously a big problem as some of the points are clearly not valid.
[QUOTE=buu342;52887135]djjkxbox, just watch this video from 30:07, and maybe you'll understand why everyone's criticizing CinemaSins. Here bobvids actually takes the time to sum up his problems with CinemaSins, and will spare you the 30 minutes of your time with a condensed block of all the arguments people are trying to make. It'll take 3 minutes of your time, and will make the actual discussion of CinemaCins more fruitful than I has been so far.
[video]https://youtu.be/W6Z95LdlKGM?t=30m07s[/video]
Or just ignore it, up to you.[/QUOTE]
I like the part where the cinemasins guy keeps alternating between complaining that things aren't spelled out enough and complaining that things are being spelled out too much.
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887269]I mean it seems pretty obvious to me that it's not really supposed to be taken seriously, obviously the original videos think that's not true, but at the end of the day these are opinions. If I showed these videos to any of my friends, they wouldn't take it seriously. Especially when you're seeing him review a movie you've already watched, and can easily see that some of the points are just nitpicking.
I really doubt that these videos are going to have that much of a significant impact, though. No more than negative reviews do on great movies[/QUOTE]
But you literally said you take parts of the video seriously
[QUOTE]I really enjoy CinemaSins videos, some of their criticism is completely valid[/QUOTE]
YOU take it seriously. You can't claim they're not meant to be taken seriously because you literally said you take them seriously.
[QUOTE=Asaratha;52887271]haha funny joke, you got things factually incorrect, what a funny & good formula[/QUOTE]
It works for them, even if it's not the best way of going about it
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887263]Well you can take it seriously or you don't. People taking things too seriously is more of the issue imho. That being said, I can't see this having a significant impact on the movie industry, or people in general. If stupid content makes people laugh, then they have a formula that works, even if it is stupid[/QUOTE]
You can choose to take Titanic as a comedy, but you'd be wrong
Get out of here with this ~well it's up to your interpretation~ stuff. No, it's not. The author has intentions, and with Cinemasins, that intention is to be nit-picking dickheads... while pretending to be satirical nit-picking dickheads. It's a grave misunderstanding of what satire is, and encourages people to use it as a defense where it doesn't apply (like you're doing here)
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52887275]But you literally said you take parts of the video seriously
YOU take it seriously. You can't claim they're not meant to be taken seriously because you literally said you take them seriously.[/QUOTE]
I said some of the points are valid, not that I take them seriously. Really if I see a part that is valid, I just go "haha yeah he is kinda right", and move on. I don't start thinking the movie is terrible, so no, I don't take it seriously
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887282]I said some of the points are valid, not that I take them seriously. Really if I see a part that is valid, I just go "haha yeah he is kinda right", and move on. I don't start thinking the movie is terrible, so no, I don't take it seriously[/QUOTE]
You don't see a problem with a video misinforming you and not making it clear that it's doing so?
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887269]I mean it seems pretty obvious to me that it's not really supposed to be taken seriously, obviously the original videos think that's not true, but at the end of the day these are opinions. If I showed these videos to any of my friends, they wouldn't take it seriously. Especially when you're seeing him review a movie you've already watched, and can easily see that some of the points are just nitpicking.
I really doubt that these videos are going to have that much of a significant impact, though. No more than negative reviews do on great movies[/QUOTE]
People have always taken it seriously because it takes itself seriously, and only plays the "IT'S JUST A JOKE" card when called on its shit to get away with it's disingenuous bullshit.
I mean look at you, you even said you consider some of their criticisms valid, and some of them are, so they couch all the nitpicking nonsense inside of that, and many people don't care to think about the difference, and good films lose out on some viewership, and the general dialogue on the internet and in person is poisoned at one of the wells of modern criticism from the get go, kinda making it shit for everyone else.
people use those critiques and some of those points in discussion, so clearly they've internalized something that's inherently untrue and aren't thinking about it further.
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887282][b]I said some of the points are valid, not that I take them seriously. Really if I see a part that is valid, I just go "haha yeah he is kinda right", and move on.[/b] I don't start thinking the movie is terrible, so no, I don't take it seriously[/QUOTE]
This is literally one of the problems they bring up in the video. They discuss the fact that since the actual satire is mixed in with misrepresented facts, it dilutes the message and makes it malicious.
Why won't you just watch the fucking video in the OP of the thread you've been derailing for a page and a half?
A couple good videos on the issues with CinemaSins
[video=youtube;vRSArNN6wJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRSArNN6wJE[/video]
[video=youtube;b9IBlbfjNH0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9IBlbfjNH0[/video]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52887298]People have always taken it seriously because it takes itself seriously, and only plays the "IT"S JUST A JOKE" card when called on its shit to get away with it's disingenuous bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Never watching these videos have I seen it as taking itself seriously, but that's my opinion. I just see these videos as comedic, I've never seen them labelled as official reviews, it's always came off as humor and pure humor to me. If the points are valid or not valid, you can watch the movie yourself or look up actual reviews. I still don't really see how they're trying to make it sound like it's being serious, I thought it was pretty clear that it's comedic, but again this is my opinion, and you have yours too.
[editline]14th November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;52887310]This is literally one of the problems they bring up in the video. They discuss the fact that since the actual satire is mixed in with misrepresented facts, it dilutes the message and makes it malicious.
Why won't you just watch the fucking video in the OP of the thread you've been derailing for a page and a half?[/QUOTE]
I'm not derailing, I'm discussing the topic. We're still talking about CinemaSins, are we not? And to say these videos are malicious is certainly a hyperbole…
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887316]Never watching these videos have I seen it as taking itself seriously, but that's my opinion. I just see these videos as comedic, I've never seen them labelled as official reviews, it's always came off as humor and pure humor to me. If the points are valid or not valid, you can watch the movie yourself or look up actual reviews. I still don't really see how they're trying to make it sound like it's being serious, I thought it was pretty clear that it's comedic, but again this is my opinion, and you have yours too.[/QUOTE]
But it's not humor. It's video marketing strategies being used exclusively to make money. You'd know this if you WATCHED. THE. VIDEO. ON. THE. FIRST. PAGE.
Never mind. If you're not going to watch the video you're obviously shitposting. Peace.
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887316]Never watching these videos have I seen it as taking itself seriously, but that's my opinion. I just see these videos as comedic, I've never seen them labelled as official reviews, it's always came off as humor and pure humor to me. If the points are valid or not valid, you can watch the movie yourself or look up actual reviews. I still don't really see how they're trying to make it sound like it's being serious, I thought it was pretty clear that it's comedic, but again this is my opinion, and you have yours too.[/QUOTE]
CinemaSins claims they are reviews if you would watch the damn video. Comments show that many of the people watching think they are watching a review, which you would know if you WATCHED THE VIDEO. It's presented as criticism and review, and misinformation is getting widely spread because they're being extremely intellectually dishonest.
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;52887323]But it's not humor. It's video marketing strategies being used exclusively to make money. You'd know this if you WATCHED. THE. VIDEO. ON. THE. FIRST. PAGE.
Never mind. If you're not going to watch the video you're obviously shitposting. Peace.[/QUOTE]
If plenty of people are finding it funny, then it's humor. And to me it's clear that's humor. I've watched the video and I don't agree with it.
I will explain why tomorrow, it's late here so I'm going to sleep
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887316]Never watching these videos have I seen it as taking itself seriously, but that's my opinion. I just see these videos as comedic, I've never seen them labelled as official reviews, it's always came off as humor and pure humor to me. If the points are valid or not valid, you can watch the movie yourself or look up actual reviews. I still don't really see how they're trying to make it sound like it's being serious, I thought it was pretty clear that it's comedic, but again this is my opinion, and you have yours too.
[editline]14th November 2017[/editline]
I'm not derailing, I'm discussing the topic. We're still talking about CinemaSins, are we not? And to say these videos are malicious is certainly a hyperbole…[/QUOTE]
Look dude, you refuse to watch a 30 minute video, but waste an entire day arguing about this. I don't think you honestly give enough of a shit about this at a logical level to be honest with yourself, or us.
Watch the video. it explains why it's not just "humor and pure humor" based on context, reasoning, and evidence.
Or don't, waste another day arguing about a topic you're ill informed on because you wouldn't watch the source material because it goes against the mentality that I think cinemasins and the like rely on.
[editline]13th November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887326]If plenty of people are finding it funny, then it's humor. And to me it's clear that's humor. I've watched the video and I don't agree with it.[/QUOTE]
So you watched the part about jeremy doing his non-cinema sins video, using his legit critique of the film in the cinemasins later despite one being a serious review, and the other being "just jokes"?
I genuinely don't think you watched the video or if you did, paid attention.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52887335]I genuinely don't think you watched the video or if you did, paid attention.[/QUOTE]
Well that just shows how small-minded you are
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Not only rude but threadshitting" - Kiwi))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887345]Well that just shows how small-minded you are[/QUOTE]
That's rich, given everything you've said in this thread. You yourself SAID you didn't watch most of the video!
While I do not watch Cinema Sins I did find the video interesting to watch and know more about them.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;52887369]That's rich, given everything you've said in this thread. You yourself SAID you didn't watch most of the video![/QUOTE]
And I have now and I still disagree
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887345]Well that just shows how small-minded you are[/QUOTE]
So can you walk me through your thought process on the example I just gave? I am totally willing to discuss this and understand what you think about that, and how that relates to his criticisms being "Just jokes"?
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887345]Well that just shows how small-minded you are[/QUOTE]
I really don't think you're understanding the argument here. Nobody's claiming that a legit criticism [I]can't[/I] be comedy, they're just saying that even if it is attempting to be comedic, and even if it's successful, it's still a criticism. There are criticisms that CinemaSins is trying to present as legitimate criticisms, which many viewers are interpreting as legitimate criticisms, which are misformation/misinterpretation/poor criticism. Whether they're [I]also[/I] trying to be funny is irrelevant to this point. They're bad criticisms which ignore context, and CinemaSins refuses to improve the quality of their criticisms.
whenever i'm wrong it's actually satire
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52887326]If plenty of people are finding it funny, then it's humor. And to me it's clear that's humor. I've watched the video and I don't agree with it.
I will explain why tomorrow, it's late here so I'm going to sleep[/QUOTE]
Even if this is entirely true, and everyone eats up these "clearly humorous jokes", what do you have to say about the points in the video about how they could improve their quality? I think that joke-to-joke comparison was a pretty earnest criticism of their style of humour.
And I'm guessing you don't have anything to address the whole "disingenuous clickbait / trend-hopping marketing" point other than "I don't care, I'm entertained". I suppose that is a valid argument, albeit not one that casts you in a very positive light.
[QUOTE=usaokay;52887434]I'm amazed that CinemaSins don't really give a shit about criticisms on them.[/QUOTE]
I'm not.
As the video says, why would they? As long as they make money, who cares? Not them!
Just because satire isn't serious in tone, doesn't mean it isn't making a point
I mean for crying out loud, look at satire at its most basic form: Political cartoons
[t]https://elainenmcbride.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/2-watergate-scandal-1973-granger.jpg[/t]
Is it satire? Yes
Is it serious? No
Is it making a point? Yes
Who is the target of the satire here? Obviously Nixon, it's clearly not mocking the cartoonist, and it's clearly not mocking Pinocchio.
[img]http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/6/8/1/27681.jpg?v=1[/img]
Is this satire? Yes
Is this serious? No
Is it making a point? Yes
Who is the target of the satire here? It's not the things being described in the cartoon. It's political cartoons as a whole, their tropes, and how silly they look when deconstructed like this. The guy who made this isn't criticizing himself. Anyone with half a brain will tell you he's not saying "look at how silly critics of political cartoons look". You're not laughing [I]at[/I] the guy who made it, you're laughing [I]with[/I] the guy who made it.
And now, Cinemasins:
Is it satire? Yes, but not for the reasons you think
Is it serious? No.
Is it making a point? Yes.
Who is the target of the satire here? Jeremy is injecting his own, real criticisms of the movies, and attempting to show how silly movie tropes look when deconstructed. Sound familiar? Yes, CS isn't criticizing themselves. Anyone with half a brain will tell you their videos aren't saying "look at how silly us nitpicking movie critics look". You're not laughing [I]at[/I] Cinemasins, you're laughing [I]with[/I] Cinemasins. If you're a fan of shit humor, that is
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