• Gaddafi shown alive Before being executed
    56 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Clementine;32886825]No you sociopath, he did not. He may had been an evil evil man, but how does it make you any better when you advocate his torture?[/QUOTE] After ordering the deaths of thousands of his own citizens among other things, he deserves to be taken care of by a government? No, he lost all rights to that in my mind. And no, I don't advocate torture.
[QUOTE=teslacoil;32888992]After ordering the deaths of thousands of his own citizens among other things, he deserves to be taken care of by a government? No, he lost all rights to that in my mind. And no, I don't advocate torture.[/QUOTE]Human rights aren't something that can be lost or earned
He's already dead so its not like this human rights debate means anything.
[QUOTE=DoneZ;32889186]He's already dead so its not like this human rights debate means anything.[/QUOTE]He wasn't dead until a crowd kicked the shit of him genius
No I agree with you I'm just saying we can't change the past unfortunately.
[QUOTE=Kondor58;32889416]He wasn't dead until a crowd kicked the shit of him genius[/QUOTE] The crowd of people not taking his shit anymore? Yeah, those people. Good for them.
At near the end one guy pulled his hair and they started punching him to death? did I see right?
I am OK with the people that he ordered killed and tortured returning the favor.
It would have been better to take him alive to get answers from him, but I completely understand why they did what they did. Gaddafi, over his 42 year reign, killed tens of thousands of people, ripping apart families and destroying the lives of countless innocents. He sent many more running from Libya as refugees, in the past, and during this revolution. He used fear, money, and guns to crush any resistance to his regime, even hiring mercenaries to do his dirty work. Ask yourself, after fighting through the streets of Sirte and maybe more, getting shot at by rockets, vehicle, and small arms fire, seeing your countrymen die around you, and then victoriously taking the final city in a more than half a year long revolution, would you be thinking straight? Would you, after getting the hands on the leader who gave you so much hardship, suddenly go "Wait, hold on, he deserves a formal trial and then most likely get sent to a prison where he will be able to live out the rest of his days while we rebuild a nation. And judging by what he's done, he'll live on without remorse." I highly doubt it. We sit in our comfy chairs in our first world nations judging people who live in completely different circumstances. Instead of trying to understand what happened and why, we condemn an entire nation at the moment of their victory in a revolution.
I feel bad for him, pleading for his life only to have it beaten the fuck out of him. Makes me think Saddam got a "better" death than him.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;32887827]Is someone who's hurting only those who hurt innocents just as bad as them?[/QUOTE] Just about, yeah. [editline]21st October 2011[/editline] I wouldn't say AS bad but they're certainly bad. It's not justice, it's straight up vengeance, which benefits no one.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32891834]Just about, yeah. [editline]21st October 2011[/editline] I wouldn't say AS bad but they're certainly bad. It's not justice, it's straight up vengeance, which benefits no one.[/QUOTE] Putting people in prisons also hurts them. It's just like kidnapping. But somehow, because it's the law, and it's hygienic-humane way (as perceived by your culture) it's fine to hurt back bad people that way. All cops and judges are horrible people following that logic. Calling those people barbarians and then saying that he should be thrown into jail for the rest of his life is a hypocrisy. It would serve the same purpose. Just in a clean looking and adequate way to your definition of justice. I'd say the justice was served. And it does have a benefit. The next guy who'd follow Gaddafi's steppes might go "well, shit, maybe it's not such a good idea" after he sees what happens to guys like him. Also lol @ people going "he should have a trial". What the fuck, we already know that the sentence would be life. The trial would be just a formality, a meaningless ceremony. But hey, as long as the protocol is followed everything is dandy, justified, moral and not barbaric.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;32892248]Putting people in prisons also hurts them. It's just like kidnapping. But somehow, because it's the law, and it's hygienic-humane way (as perceived by your culture) it's fine to hurt back bad people that way. All cops and judges are horrible people following that logic. Calling those people barbarians and then saying that he should be thrown into jail for the rest of his life is a hypocrisy. It would serve the same purpose. Just in a clean looking and adequate way to your definition of justice. I'd say the justice was served. And it does have a benefit. The next guy who'd follow Gaddafi's steppes might go "well, shit, maybe it's not such a good idea" after he sees what happens to guys like him. Also lol @ people going "he should have a trial". What the fuck, we already know that the sentence would be life. The trial would be just a formality, a meaningless ceremony. But hey, as long as the protocol is followed everything is dandy, justified, moral and not barbaric.[/QUOTE] So when someone assaults somebody, instead of removing them as a threat to the public for a while by putting them in jail we should just kill them because it's clearly just as bad to put them in prison. [editline]21st October 2011[/editline] Not to mention I don't remember claiming that prison is 100% okay totally humane goodness.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32892458]So when someone assaults somebody, instead of removing them as a threat to the public for a while by putting them in jail we should just kill them because it's clearly just as bad to put them in prison.[/QUOTE] I have no idea where you got that from. There are no implications what we should or shouldn't do in my post. This way of arguing is so irritating by the way. Making it look like I'm making some kind of insane implication to ridicule everything I said, actually ignoring my main point. And no, it's not as bad, again, I never said that. I said that it serves the same purpose when you claimed it's just vengeance and doesn't benefit anyone. [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32892458]Not to mention I don't remember claiming that prison is 100% okay totally humane goodness.[/QUOTE]I took the prison from the thread, not directly from you.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;32893021]I have no idea where you got that from. There are no implications what we should or shouldn't do in my post. This way of arguing is so irritating by the way. Making it look like I'm making some kind of insane implication to ridicule everything I said, actually ignoring my main point.[/QUOTE] Uh you said it is hypocritical to call killing barbaric but not prison even though it's about the minimum possible violation of someone's rights in order to ensure the safety of the public and that cops and judges are horrible people according to our logic. YOU took an argument and followed its progression in order to draw what you perceive to be ridiculous claims to argue against it, and then you whine at me for it? [QUOTE=Silly Sil;32893021]And no, it's not as bad, again, I never said that. I said that it serves the same purpose when you claimed it's just retribution and doesn't benefit anyone.[/QUOTE] It serves no purpose beyond what can be accomplished already by jailing him. Also, the idea of killing people as a deterrent against more crime is ridiculous and inhumane btw. No one's life is worth potentially stopping a future crime, ever. [editline]21st October 2011[/editline] Also, implication. You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means. You didn't say what you thought we should do but fuck me if you didn't imply it. Fuck it though. Arguments with you are not enjoyable to me and apparently not to you either and it's not interesting enough subject matter to make me want to argue regardless so let's agree to not agree at all, does that sound good?
wow I can't help feel bad for him, despite all the evil he's done. I think its awfully scary to have your sons die protecting you, and that the same people that killed your family are coming after you. And then you're surrounded by those people who want to kill you in the name of everything you don't believe in. That's just a way of looking at it though, I could also say this man was an oppressor who deserved to die in the name of liberty, equality and justice, but I want to look at everyone in the same perspective that they are all equal human beings. Despite what they've done. I suppose two exceptions to my beliefs are Osama Bin Laden and Hitler.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32893124]Uh you said it is hypocritical to call killing barbaric but not prison even though it's about the minimum possible violation of someone's rights in order to ensure the safety of the public and that cops and judges are horrible people according to our logic. YOU took an argument and followed its progression in order to draw what you perceive to be ridiculous claims to argue against it, and then you whine at me for it?[/QUOTE] I took the "cops and judges are horrible people" from your post when you said that someone who's hurting only those who hurt innocents is just about as bad as them. How is it ridiculing what you said? It's exactly what you said. And I wasn't talking about the way Gaddafi was "punished" when I said hypocritical, making the torture equal to jail. I was saying that it has the same purpose that imprisoning him for live would've had. Maybe it wasn't clear, sorry. [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32893124]It serves no purpose beyond what can be accomplished already by jailing him.[/QUOTE] I do agree with that but it serves pretty much the same purpose? Not "no benefit at all". [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32893124]Also, the idea of killing people as a deterrent against more crime is ridiculous and inhumane btw. No one's life is worth potentially stopping a future crime, ever.[/QUOTE] I'm not advocating that method. But saying that it has no benefits is, well, wrong. Even if they don't exceed the downsides. [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32893124]Also, implication. You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means. You didn't say what you thought we should do but fuck me if you didn't imply it.[/QUOTE] Implication isn't also seeing a very extreme version of what I said instead of what I actually did. Like one time I said "men are better at chess than women" apparently that implies that I said "women shouldn't touch chess". You can't call an implication what you assumed I think. [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32893124]Fuck it though. Arguments with you are not enjoyable to me and apparently not to you either and it's not interesting enough subject matter to make me want to argue regardless so let's agree to not agree at all, does that sound good?[/QUOTE] We do agree on some points. Our cultures aren't that much apart. I do agree that jailing is a better solution than killing. I'm just saying, not everything is so black and white. They did to him what we do to criminals, just in way that has no place in our culture. Also pointed out the fact that punishing people following the law, trial, and cleaner ways whitens up basically the same thing, hurting the bad guys.
[QUOTE=Hogie bear;32882865]oh god [b]he was[/b] a mess.[/QUOTE] Fixed.
He looks sad.
[QUOTE=Silikone;32899165]He looks sad.[/QUOTE] He should be, it's over for him and he knows it's not going to be painless.
People forget these rebels are just as much animals as Gaddafi or any of his troops. The rebels have committed countless war crimes.
r..i.p muamar "mumu" gadafi
Oh he was executed. Fucking thought so, died from wounds up my ass
Generally, people tend to be alive before they're executed.
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