• Islam in Britain
    328 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zee!;21448900]Well then you would know that the Quran promotes childrape. Also, your "peek" has nothing to do with this argument. Just because a couple of nutcases acted that shit out doesn't mean that the Quran is allowed to promote childrape. What kind of backward logic is that?[/QUOTE] [B]The Bukhari ain't the Quran. [/B]
[QUOTE=mchapra;21449006][B]The Bukhari ain't the Quran. [/B][/QUOTE] Still doesn't change the fact that it's a part of islam.
In order to solve these issues we must kill the man responsible for all evil... Steve Jobs. [IMG]http://www.ragingfaggot.org/steve_jobs_evil.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Zee!;21449038]Still doesn't change the fact that it's a part of islam.[/QUOTE] It's a collection of Ahadith, which are the sayings of companions, and Aishia Accepted it, also where is the part in that verse going 'RAPE ALL CHILDREN'.
I'd bring the case about Joseph, Mary's husband, was "90 years old" when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary. But since you don't care about the Bible, I'll continue. Child brides as young as 8 were common, not exceptions, among the Byzantine emperors and nobility. [LIST=1] [*]People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar. [*]Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries. [/LIST] It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off. [B][U]It was quite different for men on the other hand[/U][/B], because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage. That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. The culture back then and in many third world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today.
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21446933]lol, the amount of racism in this thread is disgusting. You people seem to think a small fringe of weirdo's is enough to "take over your homeland" which coming from a British person is hilariously ironic. And congrats to Criticalthought on another fantastic thread, giving way to the examination of the racist and idiotic human. I mean, being a part of a neo-nazi party, that's the qualifications. [/quote] You are ignorant, Islam is not a race. I have no political affiliations. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21446933]officers are not supposed to attack people just because they're extremist.[/quote] What if they are throwing large metal fences at you and saying they are going to kill you? [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21446933]Islam4UK is a well known group, if you've ever been to the UK and dealt politically, you would have heard of them.[/quote] I never said they were not a well known group, and I have heard of them despite not having been in the UK :/ [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21446933]they all are part of Islam4UK[/quote] This is grossly inaccurate, what would be accurate is to say they are all part of Islam. I know you like making claims about people's affiliations with things, but considering that you have no information to back any of it up I'm going to go ahead and say that it is impossible to determine. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21446933]uh, that's the reason the EDP exists lol[/quote] I've never heard of an EDF, and the EDP's stance on immigration is nowhere near that extreme. You guys need to get your acronyms straight. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21446933]look at me, im criticalthought i'm a paranoid conspiracy theorist, neo-nazi[/quote] My argument is entirely true, is that why you have to resort to ad hominem? [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21447528]yes, you can take Surah quotes out of context, I'm sure you're proud[/quote] Actually the context was explained, if you have any relevant information on how what you think the context is, please feel free to post it. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21447528][editline]05:35PM[/editline] Oh I'm starting, mate, do you fucking know Gaelic? [editline]05:36PM[/editline] No there isn't.[/QUOTE] Do you have any arguments that aren't just NOPELOL [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21447585][B]Deuteronomy 17[/B] If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.[/quote] This doesn't involve going into other people's lands and killing them [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21447585]keep in mind heatsketch the bible is filled with NUMEROUS disgusting passage[/quote] Indeed, yet irrelevant to the topic. [QUOTE=JDK721;21447697]According to the 2001 census 1,536,015 Muslims live in England and Wales, where [B]they form 3% of the population.[/B][/QUOTE] So what is the population now? According to some sources it was 2.4 million at the end of 2008. That 62% growth in just 8 years. Astounding. [QUOTE=starpluck;21447763]Pedophilia with 3-year old slave girls in the Bible! Forcing 3-year old slave girls into sex during the Mosaic Law in the Bible! ([URL]http://www.answering-christianity.com/age3.htm[/URL]) More on Pedophilia and Rape in the Bible! ([URL]http://www.answering-christianity.com/ahmed_eldin/bible_supports_pedophilia_and_rape.htm[/URL])[/quote] Your own retarded source seems to have unraveled your argument [release]A girl must be 12 years old for marriage, but a 3-year old may be betrothed with the father's approval. As for the permissibility of marriage to a minor (katanah) by coition...*Fuggedaboudit!!* as they say in the Mafia. My friend assures me that *humanitarian treatment* is the final authority. If a man did that, that is, had intercourse with a minor for purposes of marriage,it would be considered a crime, even if the father approved. A girl that young would be considered unable to make a momentous decision like that. And even if she were older than 12, if it were done by force, as if she were a Moabite captive, they would be made to divorce once the circumstances were known. Furthermore, and very importantly, the Jews are *required* to observe the "deen hammalchut"...the laws of the country in which they reside, before applying their own halacha, or laws. So the short answer is, yes, marriage by coition is considered legal, but not with a katanah, and never by force. Betrothal to a katanah is OK, but the bride must reach puberty before actual marriage and consummation. Also, according to my own exceedingly imperfect knowledge, nowhere in the Talmud is betrothal to a minor by intercourse *recommended*. If all this were permissible in the days of the Mishna, well, those days are gone."[/release] Also note that to Muslims, Islamic law comes before the laws of a country. [QUOTE=starpluck;21447763]In the Bible,[highlight] when your blood is on your head[/highlight], it means that you are to be killed: [B]Leviticus 20:9[/B] " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, [highlight]and his blood will be on his own head.[/highlight] [B] Leviticus 20:11[/B] " 'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death;[highlight] their blood will be on their own heads.[/highlight] [B] Leviticus 20:13[/B] " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. [highlight]They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.[/highlight] And so on... So, when Paul told the Jews that your blood is on your heads, it clearly meant that if they insisted on rejecting Jesus as the Christ, then their [highlight]blood is on their head;[/highlight] killing them would be allowed. It is a capital punishment statement. [B]This goes for all Jews.[/B][/QUOTE] Actually it means they are responsible for their own death, and it does not mean ALL Jews, this is an excerpt from the King James version of the bible [quote]And when they opposed themselves, and [B]blasphemed[/B], he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.[/quote] This also does nothing to say that they have to make the entire world only under god.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21449096]I'd bring the case about Joseph, Mary's husband, was "90 years old" when he married 12 to 14-year old Mary. But since you don't care about the Bible, I'll continue. Child brides as young as 8 were common, not exceptions, among the Byzantine emperors and nobility. [LIST=1] [*]People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar. [*]Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries. [/LIST] It is important to know that girls during the Biblical and Islamic days used to be married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off. In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off. [B][U]It was quite different for men on the other hand[/U][/B], because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life. So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married. The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage. That is why you see girls as young as 9 or 10 were married to men as old as 30 or even older. The culture back then and in many third world countries today (NON-MUSLIM ONES TOO) is quite different than what you live in today.[/QUOTE] Oh and why didn't the woman have to develop her body and mind for her to decide whether or not she want to marry a guy over twice her age? In the end religion, despite the origin of it, is still the one to blame for forcefully marrying these children to older more "knowledgeable" men who SOMEHOW don't see what the hell is wrong with marrying 8 year olds. It doesn't matter that this has been going on for a long time and still is to this day. It was and still is wrong to marry 8 year old girls.
Okay guys, we all have flaws so why not just let us believe what we want to believe. Why can't we get along.
[QUOTE=CriticalThought;21449100]So what is the population now? According to some sources it was 2.4 million at the end of 2008. That 62% growth in just 8 years. Astounding.[/QUOTE] The 2.4 million estimate is for the UK. The numbers I posted are just for England and Wales.
[QUOTE=mchapra;21449221]Okay guys, we all have flaws so why not just let us believe what we want to believe. Why can't we get along.[/QUOTE] I like to believe in beating women, please don't criticize me, can't we just get along?
[QUOTE=JDK721;21449222]The 2.4 million estimate is for the UK. The numbers I posted are just for England and Wales.[/QUOTE] How does this help your argument at all? [b]The vast majority of Muslims in the UK live in England and Wales: 1,536,015 were living in England and Wales[/b],[8] where they form 3% of the population; [B]42,557 were living in Scotland[/b], forming 0.84% of the population[9]; and [B]1,943 were living in Northern Ireland[/B]. Nice try at damage control
[QUOTE=CriticalThought;21449100] Your own retarded source seems to have unraveled your argument [release]A girl must be 12 years old for marriage, but a 3-year old may be betrothed with the father's approval. As for the permissibility of marriage to a minor (katanah) by coition...*Fuggedaboudit!!* as they say in the Mafia. My friend assures me that *humanitarian treatment* is the final authority. If a man did that, that is, had intercourse with a minor for purposes of marriage,it would be considered a crime, even if the father approved. A girl that young would be considered unable to make a momentous decision like that. And even if she were older than 12, if it were done by force, as if she were a Moabite captive, they would be made to divorce once the circumstances were known. Furthermore, and very importantly, the Jews are *required* to observe the "deen hammalchut"...the laws of the country in which they reside, before applying their own halacha, or laws. So the short answer is, yes, marriage by coition is considered legal, but not with a katanah, and never by force. Betrothal to a katanah is OK, but the bride must reach puberty before actual marriage and consummation. Also, according to my own exceedingly imperfect knowledge, nowhere in the Talmud is betrothal to a minor by intercourse *recommended*. If all this were permissible in the days of the Mishna, well, those days are gone."[/release] [/QUOTE] Bro, learn to read. He was referring to that and refuting it. [quote] Actually it means they are responsible for their own death, and it does not mean ALL Jews, this is an excerpt from the King James version of the bible [/quote]It does, like I said "Martin Luther, the Catholic Church which persecuted and killed the Jews throughout the ages until they stopped it only in our current years, and Adolf Hitler and the Nazis and [U][B]their churches were not ignorant of Christianity[/B][/U]. In " Christianity in the West 1400-1700" pg 86, we learn that Martin Luther believed that Jews should be enslaved or thrown out of Christian lands, and that their ghettos and synagogues should be burned. He also felt rebellious Anabaptist should be killed and publicly affirmed a 1531 edict by Wittenberg theologians sanctioning their execution. ("The Heretics: heresy through the ages") By Walter Nigg pgs 304-305. [quote]This also does nothing to say that they have to make the entire world only under god.[/quote]I'll get that out right now. [editline]07:36PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zee!;21449190]Oh and why didn't the woman have to develop her body and mind for her to decide whether or not she want to marry a guy over twice her age? In the end religion, despite the origin of it, is still the one to blame for forcefully marrying these children to older more "knowledgeable" men who SOMEHOW don't see what the hell is wrong with marrying 8 year olds. It doesn't matter that this has been going on for a long time and still is to this day. It was and still is wrong to marry 8 year old girls.[/QUOTE] That was the common practice 2000 years ago. I can name many changes from 2000 years ago to present. Like I said, lifespans were short back then.
[QUOTE=CriticalThought;21449100]You are ignorant, Islam is not a race. I have no political affiliations.[/quote] With this thread you are in no postition to call anyone ignorant. And a large portion of Islamic people are Middle eastern. You're a neo-nazi as far as I see [QUOTE] What if they are throwing large metal fences at you and saying they are going to kill you?[/QUOTE] The police are supposed to prosecute, not get into a fight. [QUOTE] I never said they were not a well known group, and I have heard of them despite not having been in the UK :/[/QUOTE] uh, you said they weren't fucking well known like the WBP [QUOTE] This is grossly inaccurate, what would be accurate is to say they are all part of Islam. I know you like making claims about people's affiliations with things, but considering that you have no information to back any of it up I'm going to go ahead and say that it is impossible to determine.[/QUOTE] uh, Islam4UK is an extremist what the fuck are you even babbling about? [QUOTE] My argument is entirely true, is that why you have to resort to ad hominem?[/QUOTE] no it isn't you paranoid fucker. Islam makes up 3% of the fucking population. Calm the fuck down. [QUOTE] Actually the context was explained, if you have any relevant information on how what you think the context is, please feel free to post it.[/QUOTE] no, it wasn't. [QUOTE] Do you have any arguments that aren't just NOPELOL[/QUOTE] Much better then your paranoid fucking ramblings. [QUOTE] This doesn't involve going into other people's lands and killing them[/QUOTE] it says to kill non believers. what the fuck are you on? [QUOTE] So what is the population now? According to some sources it was 2.4 million at the end of 2008. That 62% growth in just 8 years. Astounding.[/QUOTE] it's called immigration during turmoil, gj you learned a new concept. [editline]07:39PM[/editline] people immigrate, go fucking figure
[QUOTE=Zee!;21449246]I like to believe in beating women, please don't criticize me, can't we just get along?[/QUOTE] Do you have reading problems? [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=21448938&postcount=153[/url]
You do know that Martin Luther is by no means an authority on Christianity right? Also [quote]Luther rarely encountered Jews during his life, but his attitudes reflected a theological and cultural tradition which saw Jews as a rejected people guilty of the murder of Christ, and he lived within a local community that had expelled Jews some ninety years earlier.[/quote]
[QUOTE=CriticalThought;21449343]You do know that Martin Luther is by no means an authority on Christianity right? Also[/QUOTE] He was the founder of the Protestant Reformation. Every single Protestant on earth was because of him.
he created his own sect of fucking Christianity.
[QUOTE=starpluck;21449338]Do you have reading problems? [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=21448938&postcount=153[/url][/QUOTE] "..(and last) beat (tap) them (lightly).." Seems like you do. Yeah let's beat our wives because they don't obey our orders.
Also, Paul, indisputably was a head figure in Christianity, and as you seen, he advocated the death of the Jews. [editline]07:48PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zee!;21449419]"..(and last) beat (tap) them (lightly).." Seems like you do. Yeah let's beat our wives because they don't obey our orders.[/QUOTE] Do you know what the parenthesis are for right? They have a very specific purpose.
[QUOTE=Zee!;21449419]"..(and last) beat (tap) them (lightly).." Seems like you do. Yeah let's beat our wives because they don't obey our orders.[/QUOTE] You didn't read the whole passage GJ
[QUOTE=Zee!;21449246]I like to believe in beating women, please don't criticize me, can't we just get along?[/QUOTE] I like to Call myself a genius by Ignoring valid points in an argument, Can have a Nobel Prize? [QUOTE=Zee!;21449419]"..(and last) beat (tap) them (lightly).." Seems like you do. Yeah let's beat our wives because they don't obey our orders.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.alternet.org/story/63226/domestic_abuse_up_close:_man_beats_wife,_forces_their_son_to_film_it_%28video%29/[/url] Your Move.
[QUOTE=Not Tishler;21449329]With this thread you are in no postition to call anyone ignorant. And a large portion of [B]Islamic people are Middle eastern[/B]. You're a neo-nazi as far as I see[/quote] Hahahaha, you're the racist. It's possible to be middle eastern and not Muslim, in which case I would have no issue with the person, it is also possible to be a middle-class white male and yet be a Muslim, in which case I would have an issue with the person. By introducing race to your argument you are trying to stall the thread and derail it in a direction in which it has no grounding. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21449329]uh, you said they weren't fucking well known like the WBP[/quote] Quote me if I said that? I said: [quote]The muslims [B]protesting[/B] in these videos are [B]not a well-known group of crazies[/B], they of most likely [B]residents of the towns shown in the videos[/B], [B]not one group consistently going around[/B] shitting on everyone's time. You can be an apologist all you want, the footage itself is still interesting.[/quote] The muslims [B]PROTESTING[/B], not the ones being [I]interviewed[/I]. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21449329]uh, Islam4UK is an extremist what the fuck are you even babbling about?[/quote] What are you responding to here exactly? You claimed that [B]ALL[/B] the Muslims in the video belong to Islam4UK, which is an inaccurate claim. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21449329]no it isn't you paranoid fucker. Islam makes up 3% of the fucking population. Calm the fuck down. [/quote] Keep up to date will you? [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21449329]no, it wasn't. [/quote] If you choose to not read posts I can't help you. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21449329]it says to kill non believers. what the fuck are you on?[/quote] Well I'm glad you admit that it doesn't involve going into other peoples lands and killing them, because that passage refers specifically to breaking God's rules in God's lands. [QUOTE=Not Tishler;21449329]it's called immigration during turmoil, gj you learned a new concept. people immigrate, go fucking figure[/QUOTE] Well I'm glad you admit that the figure you stated further up in your post is indeed wrong, as it is from 2001, and you are agreeing that there are now more Muslims. [editline]02:53PM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;21449386]He was the founder of the Protestant Reformation. Every single Protestant on earth was because of him.[/QUOTE] So where does this make him an authority on [B]CHRISTIANITY?[/B]
[QUOTE=mchapra;21449484][url]http://www.alternet.org/story/63226/domestic_abuse_up_close:_man_beats_wife,_forces_their_son_to_film_it_%28video%29/[/url] Your Move.[/QUOTE] What does this have to do with anything?
[QUOTE=starpluck;21449437]Also, Paul, indisputably was a head figure in Christianity, and as you seen, he advocated the death of the Jews.[/QUOTE] Why do you insist that "your blood be upon your heads" means that Jews must die? [QUOTE=starpluck;21449437]Do you know what the parenthesis are for right? They have a very specific purpose.[/QUOTE] Because translating from one language to another loses some implied meanings of words. Placing the connotation in parentheses is easy and retains some accuracy.
[QUOTE=Zee!;21449571]What does this have to do with anything?[/QUOTE] You are just pathetically hanging on to the debate now. I gave you another example of wife beating outside Islam. Please before you change your words again, stop.
In other parts where you quoted that phrase, it was specifically in the form "they must die. Their blood be upon their heads." However when Paul says it, he doesn't mention that anyone has to die. What he means seems very vague to me
[QUOTE=CriticalThought;21449519] So where does this make him an authority on [B]CHRISTIANITY?[/B][/QUOTE] That's why previously I mentioned, [B]PAUL.[/B] [quote=Starpluck] Martin Luther, the Catholic Church which persecuted and killed the Jews throughout the ages until they stopped it only in our current years, and [B][U]Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were not ignorant of Christianity [/U][/B] Let us look at the following verses: Acts 18:5-7 5 When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6 [U][B]But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive[/B][/U], he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles." 7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. In the Bible,[highlight] when your blood is on your head[/highlight], it means that you are to be killed: [B]Leviticus 20:9[/B] " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, [highlight]and his blood will be on his own head.[/highlight] [B] Leviticus 20:11[/B] " 'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death;[highlight] their blood will be on their own heads.[/highlight] [B] Leviticus 20:13[/B] " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. [highlight]They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.[/highlight] And so on... So, when Paul told the Jews that your blood is on your heads, it clearly meant that if they insisted on rejecting Jesus as the Christ, then their [highlight]blood is on their head;[/highlight] killing them would be allowed. It is a capital punishment statement. [B]This goes for all Jews.[/B] [/quote]
[QUOTE=starpluck;21449667]That's why previously I mentioned, [B]PAUL.[/B][/QUOTE] What does Paul have to do with anything? What is your argument? How does this relate to the topic?
[QUOTE=ThePuska;21449634]In other parts where you quoted that phrase, it was specifically in the form "they must die. Their blood be upon their heads." However when Paul says it, he doesn't mention that anyone has to die. What he means seems very vague to me[/QUOTE] In the Bible, when your blood is on your head, it means that you are to be killed. And he did say that. Acts 18:5-7 5 When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6 [U][B]But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive[/B][/U], he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, [highlight]"Your blood be on your own heads![/highlight] I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles." 7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. [editline]08:04PM[/editline] [QUOTE=CriticalThought;21449702]What does Paul have to do with anything? What is your argument? How does this relate to the topic?[/QUOTE] Do you know who Paul even is?
[QUOTE=starpluck;21449709]In the Bible, when your blood is on your head, it means that you are to be killed. And he did say that. Acts 18:5-7 5 When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6 [U][B]But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive[/B][/U], he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, [highlight]"Your blood be on your own heads![/highlight] I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles." 7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God.[/QUOTE] That's not what it means though.
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