Why the Sochi Olympics are the most expensive in history - General

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811997]I thought the topic at hand was post-Soviet Russia, not the Baltic states. In which case my point still stands but only at half a leg, because as much as I have heard of how bad things were in Soviet times from Balts, I have also heard of many who made a perfectly good living and had no qualms with the post-Stalin regime.[/QUOTE] My mom didn't live in the Latvian SSR all of her life though. She lived in the Ukrainian SSR but she moved to Latvia at the age of 15. She told me that life in Ukraine was absolutely terrible compared to Latvia then. Not enough food, etc. Although my dad said it wasn't that bad, other than most people not having a car, huge lines in stores, being poor (equally!) and that some people would be snitches (to the authorities). Apparently that was a thing.

[QUOTE=strazyyy;43812064]My mom didn't live in the Latvian SSR though. She lived in the Ukrainian SSR but she moved to Latvia at the age of 15. She told me that life in Ukraine was absolutely terrible compared to Latvia then. Not enough food, etc. Although my dad said it wasn't that bad, other than most people not having a car, huge lines in stores, being poor (equally!) and that some people would be snitches (to the authorities). Apparently that was a thing.[/QUOTE] It's not a hard concept to grasp why we in Russia have so much general disrespect towards people who call the police when something bad happens in the neighborhood. Because the word "snitch", крыса, доносчик, got so fucking ingrained. You don't inform autorities about bad things. You "rat people out". Our culture got fucked up so god damn bad. Why was it a thing though, when you could speak freely, I wonder. But then again, I would like to defend the "snitches" here for a bit. You see, when some people would say or do something deemed "immoral" or "un-soviet", and authorities would know - sometimes they would be given a choice. Either to become informants, or get fucked. A lot of people accepted the "offer", and they had no way of "slacking". If authorities find out about something you didn't "rat out", you'd get fucked even worse. People got hooked up so to speak. However, there were always enough people who would do such things in hopes of benefits. Others did it because they agreed with Soviet regime. A lot of reasons, and not all of those guys were necessarily bad people.

[QUOTE=gudman;43811979]Yeah, and прописка essentially crippled your ability to move anywhere.[/QUOTE] Why so? All you had to find was a partner who wanted to mutually exchange the flats. [QUOTE=gudman;43811979]You'd think superpower is something more stable than what has crumbled "overnight" and turned into borderline third-world shithole. Guess not. Blackouts is also something that happens a lot in superpowers. And total deficit. And food shortages. And goods shortages. And queues everywhere for everything. Rations. Idiotic propaganda.[/QUOTE] That was more towards the end of the Soviet 'golden-times' and these shortages and deficits were signs of the machine slowly rusting and grinding to a halt as we drifted away from the Soviet Union and towards a new Russia. But, I think you will agree that the absolute theft that was done in the early 90's, the massive, legal and unpunished plundering of entire cities, villages, companies, business owners, [i]everything[/i] that was performed by certain people who are now those very same shady oligarchs you never hear much about, and the astonishing crime network that has been established following to total lawlessness of the collapse that is so widespread that it has reached the Duma, Putin and is now one of -the- most developed organized crime network globally, is far worse than the Soviet troubles. Basically, in Soviet times you had one threat. That was the government. Now, you have two threats, criminals and the government. And they're both cooperating. And that's why I said that while things in the Soviet Union were shit, the shit-levels just tripled after the collapse. It wasn't a paradise by any means, but it was just better for Russia specifically.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;43811361]Yeah? [img]http://www.military-today.com/firearms/akm_l6.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] lol

[QUOTE=Melnek;43812154]Why so? All you had to find was a partner who wanted to mutually exchange the flats. [/quote] And then get denied because the state had already given you dwelling, live there. You have no reason to move anywhere. [quote] That was more towards the end of the Soviet 'golden-times' and these shortages and deficits were signs of the machine slowly rusting and grinding to a halt as we drifted away from the Soviet Union and towards a new Russia.[/quote] So we agree that the machine was getting rusty on it's own? That soviet economy wasn't all that self-sufficient? [quote]But, I think you will agree that the absolute theft that was done in the early 90's, the massive, legal and unpunished plundering of entire cities, villages, companies, business owners, [i]everything[/i] that was performed by certain people who are now those very same shady oligarchs you never hear much about, [/quote] I would agree, but to a point. Because you see, I don't see it that way. New government wasn't entirely ready for what has happened. Do you remember 1991, "State Committee on the State of Emergency"? That's when Soviet Union fell. Before that, it was possible to reform everything. After that, everyone got scared of this menace, that stalinism would re-emerge, and USSR crumbled - everyone tried to get independence as fast as possible. All economic ties got torn apart. The complete destruction of economy was a threat new government had to face. Yeltsin's government literally had their hands tied, they had to concentrate on some of the critical things, while some were left unchecked. Of course a lot of shit happened, but after the dust has settled, in 1995/6, there was not much to do but to accept what has happened and kind of shove it under the carpet. The "crazy privatisation". Yes, horrible. A lot of people got fucking thrown out of their homes, out of their jobs, out of their lives. Hundrends of thousands, maybe millions. But it could've been worse, don't you agree? The "parade of sovereignties" could've never been stopped. We could be sitting here with no electricity, no economy at all, nothing. Sent right into the stone age. At leas the country was left with something. As opposed to nothing at all. [quote]and the astonishing crime network that has been established following to total lawlessness of the collapse that is so widespread that it has reached the Duma, Putin and is now one of -the- most developed organized crime network globally, is far worse than the Soviet troubles. Basically, in Soviet times you had one threat. That was the government. Now, you have two threats, criminals and the government. And they're both cooperating. And that's why I said that while things in the Soviet Union were shit, the shit-levels just tripled after the collapse. It wasn't a paradise by any means, but it was just better for Russia specifically.[/QUOTE] Here I agree. It got worse, objectively. Compared to mid-seventies to mid-eighties. But the economy got to that point by itself, because of the fundamental flaws and government being unable to adapt to anything. I only say that after all, the country had still a really bright future. Even after all the disgusting (and often rather disturbing) shit we've been through. And where we are now? Pretty much late 80-s. The economy is still there, but the signs of something really bad are all there. Because of lack of progress. Instead of building up on what there was in the early 2000s, Putin decided to just shit it all away and throw the country's money away. All the shit in 90s - for absolutely nothing. We have fancy stuff, we live somewhat better ([b]individually[/b], gaping problems are still there), but all of that for nothing, as the crisis is pretty much seen from here now. If we are unable to keep it with us even in near future, then we might as well have never had anything to begin with.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;43811341]So is there anything positive to say about Russia ever? I mean I as an Estonian am incredibly biased but to me it just seems like Russia as a whole has never done anything good.[/QUOTE] Many great composers from the Romantic period onwards were produced from Russia -- arguably some of the best: Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Balakirev, Glinka, Medtner... as well as some incredible performers such as Sviatoslav Richter, Vladimir Horowitz and Evgeny Kissin. Surely something must be right there if so many incredible musicians can stem from one focussed place. Russia has contributed a HUGE amount to music alone, so I doubt you can make such a sweeping statement. Granted, this doesn't forgive some of the things that happen there, but you can't say that nothing good comes from there. It isn't fair.

After the collapse of USSR and the migration to capitalism Russia got much worse than communist times. People got much poorer and wealth got into the hands of the top. It took them years to recover.

[QUOTE=wanksta11;43814434]After the collapse of USSR and the migration to capitalism Russia got much worse than communist times. People got much poorer and wealth got into the hands of the top. It took them years to recover.[/QUOTE] Not entirely true. The gap between poor and "middle class" and above got bigger, that's for certain. But the top has always been wealthier than everyone else combined. Members of the Party, the higher up, the more privileges they had. Personal cars, up to luxurious appartments and even palaces. Plus they had stuff no one else was able to get ever. For example, if I somehow amass a large amount of money, I would be able to buy Ferrari or anything upper class can have. That wasn't true during Soviet times: no matter how much work I would do, no matter how much money I would save up, I wouldn't for the life of me be able to have what Party members had. It just wasn't available. They had separate country from everyone else, all for themselves to have. Better, more quality food, in larger quantities, better smokes, better drinks, better everything. They often had foreign stuff, something no one else could have without getting prosecuted if spotted. There're things you can't really compare. You've got to experience it to understand - not being able to get something [b]at all, regardless of how hard you try[/b]. You can have everything now, at least in theory, you at least can dream about it. Back then - no way. Forget it. It would never happen. Worst of all, you at least understand perfectly clear now why upper classes have it. They have money. Power. They're that, wealthy. Communist party, on the other hand... some of it's members were literally useless. The nature of their job was so obscure and often convoluted no one would understand it. They had privileges because... because they're party members. They had perfect (from the Soviets' viewpoint) biography, so they were able to rise there. It was pain to explain that to kids.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;43811897]Fair enough I guess i just hate russians from personal experience O WEL[/QUOTE] xenophobia, rad

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811109]They were. After the collapse, everything that was bad about the Soviet Union managed to get about ten times worse. And every thing good about it has entirely disappeared due to new-age capitalism, corporatism, and faux-democracy.[/QUOTE] ahhahahah bull shit. You're seriously going to say that living under a police state that executes people as they please, sends people off to work camps as they please, no access to personal cars, along with millions of people starving to death is a good thing? Yeah sounds like a fucking dreamland compared to modern Russia.

The Olympics really lose the magic when they fuck over so many people for a fucking short lived popularity contest. China was a horrible offender with what they did, and Russia is the same this time.

Man, Russia has had a hell of a bad history of rulers. Reminds me of America in so many frightening ways, at least in our current form. Our government is run by greedy, incompetent, assholes. Corruption is abound. At the same time living standards are monumentally better here, but they both seem to be declining in both our countries.

The Olympics is pretty overrated, I have no idea why cities pour billions into a two-week sporting event, with hardly any benefit (in the vast majority of cases) after that.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;43815164]The Olympics really lose the magic when they fuck over so many people for a fucking short lived popularity contest.[/QUOTE] Every country does this. Throwing their own citizens under the bus and suddenly "discovering" problems that have existed for years just as the Olympics come around.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43818367]Every country does this. Throwing their own citizens under the bus and suddenly "discovering" problems that have existed for years just as the Olympics come around.[/QUOTE] Not trying to sound patriotic or elitiest with this but I dont remember ANYTHING being nearly as bad when America hosted the Olympics in Salt Lake city. America gets a LOT of shit, most well deserved, but I cannot imagine it fucking over that amount of citizens, regardless of how small, in a major wold wide event, without actual compensation for the people to stay calm, if their is 1 country that complains about every single fucking thing that even ends up on the news and gets widespread, its America, they got the gold fucking medal with that. I dont remember any story's of peoples lives being ruined over Salt Lake city. Other countries should follow the same. An event that brings the world together in competition, avoiding all basis and racist shit, for them to prove whos the best, since fucking Ancient Rome should not need to hurt a shitload of lives because some country wants to look good, it should be the opposite. I could be wrong about Salt Lake City and even London since I didnt hear anything nearly as bad as this shit and China, but if im right, its absolutely disgusting at what they are doing, and I cant even get hyped this year, and the winter Olympics are my fucking favorite. Honestly at this point, and for a while now, the Olympics have been a business all about fucking money and a short country popularity. Which is the opposite of what it should be. I dont give a fuck that they sell merchandise or have expensive as fuck tickets and shit like that, or how every fucking store near the Olympics raises prices like 10x the normal amount, its a once in a lifetime event for most of the countries/places, and thats fine, its expensive to host the olympics. But the people in power being corrupt and stealing money, taking peoples land with no compensation, etc... completely ruins the spirit. The Olympics is about the world putting aside all its differences of bullshit, racism, bigotry, war, etc... and having all these great athletes come together and compete against one another on equal ground to prove whos best. It shouldnt ever be about what country can look the best and get the most money.

[QUOTE=BlackPhazor;43818084]The Olympics is pretty overrated, I have no idea why cities pour billions into a two-week sporting event, with hardly any benefit (in the vast majority of cases) after that.[/QUOTE] It's because they're suddenly the representatives for their entire nation, so they would like to pour billions into infrastructure so that foreign tourists will come and spend money there and not look down on the country. It's kind of like cleaning your room before you have friends come over, just it costs billions more to do it.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811724] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation[/url] [/QUOTE] [quote]2010 Chatroulette The first randomized webcam chatroom [/quote] greatest Russian innovation

[QUOTE=gudman;43814724]Not entirely true. The gap between poor and "middle class" and above got bigger, that's for certain. But the top has always been wealthier than everyone else combined. Members of the Party, the higher up, the more privileges they had. Personal cars, up to luxurious appartments and even palaces. Plus they had stuff no one else was able to get ever. For example, if I somehow amass a large amount of money, I would be able to buy Ferrari or anything upper class can have. That wasn't true during Soviet times: no matter how much work I would do, no matter how much money I would save up, I wouldn't for the life of me be able to have what Party members had. It just wasn't available. They had separate country from everyone else, all for themselves to have. Better, more quality food, in larger quantities, better smokes, better drinks, better everything. They often had foreign stuff, something no one else could have without getting prosecuted if spotted. There're things you can't really compare. You've got to experience it to understand - not being able to get something [b]at all, regardless of how hard you try[/b]. You can have everything now, at least in theory, you at least can dream about it. Back then - no way. Forget it. It would never happen. Worst of all, you at least understand perfectly clear now why upper classes have it. They have money. Power. They're that, wealthy. Communist party, on the other hand... some of it's members were literally useless. The nature of their job was so obscure and often convoluted no one would understand it. They had privileges because... because they're party members. They had perfect (from the Soviets' viewpoint) biography, so they were able to rise there. It was pain to explain that to kids.[/QUOTE] oh yeah this reminds me My literature teacher told us that her brother's grandfather (who was in the US) had died, and that he passed on his Chrysler to him or something along those lines. Since shipping to the USSR can't go through Latvia, it went to Moscow. Apparently some party member simply took it and they gave him a Volga instead. They didn't let him look at the Chrysler or anything.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;43814891]ahhahahah bull shit. You're seriously going to say that living under a police state that executes people as they please, sends people off to work camps as they please, no access to personal cars, along with millions of people starving to death is a good thing? Yeah sounds like a fucking dreamland compared to modern Russia.[/QUOTE] that's 1930s brah 60s-80s were way better

Wow, I can only imagine how much better things would be for the people of Russia if they got that 50 billion. Yes, I know it would of been spent elsewhere anyway but if it had it could have really built up the morale of the people in Russia, instead I think they are just sick and tired of all these massive gimmicks, what the fuck is going to happen once the Olympics are over? Those things are just going to stay there empty forever after.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;43811341]So is there anything positive to say about Russia ever? I mean I as an Estonian am incredibly biased but to me it just seems like Russia as a whole has never done anything good.[/QUOTE] Listen, fellow brother, I am from Estonia myself, albeit being Russian, and I can say that Russia is a goddarn dickhead, but the entire Western World compared to Russia is almost just as same, Russia just had tough luck being in spotlight during most of stupid stuff happening to it. Then the fall of Soviet Union has made Russia gone full retard corruption mode.

Wasn't the USSR really bad with bureaucrats giving them selves lavish prviliedges and lining there pockets too? It was one of the topics in high school about the collapse of the USSR but never found out it if it was actually true

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811657]You could express yourself freely back then, too, after Stalin died. You could express yourself all you wanted, it's just that nobody really cared much less the government.[/QUOTE] This is the biggest pile of steaming bullshit I have read this entire week. Like, the Gulag system remained for years after Stalin died. The "thaw" under Krushchev was short-lived, and political prisoners (from human rights activists to christian dissenters) were still being arrested and locked up right up until the end of the 1980s.

[QUOTE=Saxon;43824383]Wasn't the USSR really bad with bureaucrats giving them selves lavish prviliedges and lining there pockets too? It was one of the topics in high school about the collapse of the USSR but never found out it if it was actually true[/QUOTE] It is absolute truth. As I've said earlier, bureaucrats had a whole diffirent country for themselves. They could buy food in specialised stores where no one else was allowed. They experienced no supply shortages, almost no lines, a lot of them could buy personal cars and household appliances without waiting for their turn in appointment (that could actually never come for everyone else).

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;43811361]Yeah? [img]http://www.military-today.com/firearms/akm_l6.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] I don't really see that as a good thing.