I've worked in restaurants for the past 4 years in the US and i highly doubt anyone has actually ever spit in your food unless you've gone really far to piss someone off. Its a job just like anything else and risking your job because someone grinded your gears simply isn't worth the hassle. Yes ive dealt with plenty of inconsiderate people but the most ill even do is give them a bit of an attitude but even then im doing it with a smile and still trying to fulfill their every need. Some people tip some dont i just do my job providing the best service i can and if you dont, oh well. I'm not going to follow anyone out or complain to them ill just move the fuck along and forget about them. The people who tip well and take care of me when they see me busting my ass are the ones who ill remember. I haven't read much into this thread just watched the video and i can say walking out on the bill if they provided horrible service is warranted in some situations. If my server is obviously not busy and just providing me shit service just because he or she can then obviously not tipping/walking out is warranted but if they've done their literal best at providing you good service and you walk out or dont tip its just inconsiderate. 9/10 times I'll be paying for your tables food and drink if you walk out because it was my responsibility that you got your check/payed your bill. Sometimes there's a magic service industry bank account i can charge it to but even if there is i would have to get it approved by management before charging to it anyways which is always a hassle and means ill be staying longer writing up a report of why table 22 just got the fuck up and walked out. The tipping wage is horseshit i know but not tipping doesn't fix the problem whatsoever and neither will walking out. If you want to fight the tipping wage eat at restaurants that dont take tips or simply dont eat out. I have a few non tipping restaurants in my area and they're pretty damn popular just because of that reason especially among the foreign crowd. If business can legally take advantage they're going to and thinking that not tipping old gertrude because you think she could've hustled a little bit more for your coffee creamers isnt going to stop them.
[QUOTE=Leestons;50075874]And that's not our problem. We shouldn't *have* to tip just because your employer is shitty.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to tip, but most people aren't cheapskate jerks and do.
You are free to be a cheapskate jerk, though.
[QUOTE=Teh_Balrog;50075958]I've worked in restaurants for the past 4 years in the US and i highly doubt anyone has actually ever spit in your food unless you've gone really far to piss someone off. Its a job just like anything else and risking your job because someone grinded your gears simply isn't worth the hassle. Yes ive dealt with plenty of inconsiderate people but the most ill even do is give them a bit of an attitude but even then im doing it with a smile and still trying to fulfill their every need. Some people tip some dont i just do my job providing the best service i can and if you dont, oh well. I'm not going to follow anyone out or complain to them ill just move the fuck along and forget about them. The people who tip well and take care of me when they see me busting my ass are the ones who ill remember. I haven't read much into this thread just watched the video and i can say walking out on the bill if they provided horrible service is warranted in some situations. If my server is obviously not busy and just providing me shit service just because he or she can then obviously not tipping/walking out is warranted but if they've done their literal best at providing you good service and you walk out or dont tip its just inconsiderate. 9/10 times I'll be paying for your tables food and drink if you walk out because it was my responsibility that you got your check/payed your bill. Sometimes there's a magic service industry bank account i can charge it to but even if there is i would have to get it approved by management before charging to it anyways which is always a hassle and means ill be staying longer writing up a report of why table 22 just got the fuck up and walked out. The tipping wage is horseshit i know but not tipping doesn't fix the problem whatsoever and neither will walking out. If you want to fight the tipping wage eat at restaurants that dont take tips or simply dont eat out. I have a few non tipping restaurants in my area and they're pretty damn popular just because of that reason especially among the foreign crowd. If business can legally take advantage they're going to and thinking that not tipping old gertrude because you think she could've hustled a little bit more for your coffee creamers isnt going to stop them.[/QUOTE]
Why not form a union and strike?
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50075897]tipping someone for good service =/= tipping someone, regardless of quality of service, because if you don't they will get shafted by their employer. i am all for giving good servers something extra for that good service, but i shouldn't be socially obligated to make up for your boss literally exploiting you. it should be absolutely unacceptable that your boss is allowed to exploit you in the first place.[/QUOTE]
It's not exploitation if the waiter prefers it. You can't just go up to someone who likes the way their job is and tell them they're being exploited because you said so.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076056]It's not exploitation if the waiter prefers it. You can't just go up to someone who likes the way their job is and tell them they're being exploited because you said so.[/QUOTE]
You shouldn't be able to go up to a customer and expect for them to give you more money for doing your job just because you prefer it.
Fuck I would 100% prefer it if I got more money for doing my job, but that isn't going to happen
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076039]You don't have to tip, but most people aren't cheapskate jerks and do.
You are free to be a cheapskate jerk, though.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure the employer is the "cheapskate jerk", not the customers.
See, the inconvenience isn't tipping itself, it's pricks like you that get all pretentious and judge people for forgetting or not being able to tip.
I'm 8 pages late to this shitshow but until the wage laws are changed for wait staff in the US, throw them a tip unless they are doing a shit job. It's not "free money", it's the way things work and by not tipping you're not being edgy and smart, you're being a shitty asshole.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076101]Pretty sure the employer is the "cheapskate jerk", not the customers.
See, the inconvenience isn't tipping itself, it's pricks like you that get all pretentious and judge people for forgetting or not being able to tip.[/QUOTE]
If you aren't able to tip, then you shouldn't be eating at that place. Getting rid of tipping would just make that place too expensive for you anyway.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;50076137]I'm 8 pages late to this shitshow but until the wage laws are changed for wait staff in the US, throw them a tip unless they are doing a shit job. It's not "free money", it's the way things work and by not tipping you're not being edgy and smart, you're being a shitty asshole.[/QUOTE]
Tips are earned, they're a sign of appreciation. That said I'll only refuse to tip if someone acts entitled about it or I simply don't have the change.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076169]If you aren't able to tip, then you shouldn't be eating at that place. Getting rid of tipping would just make that place too expensive for you anyway.[/QUOTE]
That's just being presumptious.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;50076082]You shouldn't be able to go up to a customer and expect for them to give you more money for doing your job just because you prefer it.
Fuck I would 100% prefer it if I got more money for doing my job, but that isn't going to happen[/QUOTE]
"I don't get more money. So no one should get more money!" Why not be happy for them instead of attacking them out of jealousy?
It's a cultural phenomena that helps some people and hurts no one.
OK: This is how I see it.
Not tipping because you disagree with the practice is nonsensical and meaningless. Your conscientious objection is a drop in the vast and complex ocean of tipping culture in the US. If you disagree with the practice you should raise support for abolishing it, talk to your local representatives, organize and petition, etc. Not tipping just because you want the practice to go away doesn't do anything and only hurts your servers. That's my bottom line.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076171]That's just being presumptious.[/QUOTE]
It's really not. Removing tipping means you have to pay the staff full hourly wages, increasing the single largest cost for a restaurant. This will inevitably lead to higher costs for the customer of about the same amount that you end up tipping.
Just factor your tip into your expected bill and don't go to restaurants that you can't afford.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076179]"I don't get more money. So no one should get more money!" Why not be happy for them instead of attacking them out of jealousy?
It's a cultural phenomena that helps some people and hurts no one.[/QUOTE]
How is not tipping an attack? I'm honestly baffled.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076198]It's really not. Removing tipping means you have to pay the staff full hourly wages, increasing the single largest cost for a restaurant. This will inevitably lead to higher costs for the customer of about the same amount that you end up tipping.[/QUOTE]
And this is exactly how it should work, and does in many other countries.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076211]How is not tipping an attack? I'm honestly baffled.[/QUOTE]
Because not tipping is an act that hurts the server. That's it. That's the only thing it does.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076054]Why not form a union and strike?[/QUOTE]
Not a bad idea but when when about 95% of the other "front of the house" service industry jobs in the area pay almost exactly the same way, every business here would look at you like you're retarded. Especially considering someday's with tips my pay can range from 15$ an hour (without factoring in my hourly wage directly from my employer) to even 40-50$ an hour. Even though i can make great money with the tipping wage it doesnt mean i think its a good system. It brings up many problems for businesses because ive seen plenty of staff give people free stuff or waste time trying to fulfill one customers needs in hopes of great compensation. The tipping wage is problematic for everyone involved and thats why i dont care for it.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;50076226]If they're totally not being exploited then they clearly don't need tips to survive.[/QUOTE]
Tipping is part of the package. It's like saying, "If a plane can't fly without fuel then it's not much of a plane!"
The whole system is based around the cultural phenomena of tipping. It's not exploiting because an expectation of tipping was part of the original deal.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076054]Why not form a union and strike?[/QUOTE]
[url="http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/how-walmart-convinces-its-employees-not-to-unionize/395051/"]Yeah, good idea[/url]
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076198]It's really not. Removing tipping means you have to pay the staff full hourly wages, increasing the single largest cost for a restaurant. This will inevitably lead to higher costs for the customer of about the same amount that you end up tipping.
Just factor your tip into your expected bill and don't go to restaurants that you can't afford.[/QUOTE]
What about situations like mine in Florida where I had paid for everything previously, meal plans and all, so I left my wallet in my hotel room, only to have some waitress go up one side of me and down the other for not tipping because I didn't have my wallet on me. That's only one example, there are plenty of situations that happen that you can't think of where someone just can't tip. People shouldn't feel pressured to guilted in to tipping in the first place.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076254]What about situations like mine in Florida where I had paid for everything previously, meal plans and all, so I left my wallet in my hotel room, only to have some waitress go up one side of me and down the other for not tipping because I didn't have my wallet on me. That's only one example, there are plenty of situations that happen that you can't think of where someone just can't tip. People shouldn't feel pressured to guilted in to tipping in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, the fault still lies on you. I mean, the exact same thing can happen if I leave my wallet at home when going shopping. Just because I forgot my wallet doesn't mean that I'm not expected to pay for my stuff. The only difference is that one is legally binding and the other isn't.
You also don't make a rule based on the tiny outlier.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;50076275]I don't see the issue with a slightly more expensive menu if it means the waiters actually get paid. You also have to account for the hidden cost of tipping that isn't on the menu.[/QUOTE]
Like people have been saying: waiters generally make more with tips than they would without tips. So don't try and make it seem like you're helping the wait staff by getting rid of tipping.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076265]Firstly, the fault still lies on you. I mean, the exact same thing can happen if I leave my wallet at home when going shopping. Just because I forgot my wallet doesn't mean that I'm not expected to pay for my stuff. The only difference is that one is legally binding and the other isn't.
You also don't make a rule based on the tiny outlier.[/QUOTE]
I shouldn't be called an asshole and villianized because I decided not to take my wallet to a fucking water park restaurant. To hell with your "cultural phenonema".
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076287]I shouldn't be called an asshole and villianized because I decided not to take my wallet to a fucking water park restaurant. To hell with your "cultural phenonema".[/QUOTE]
Why not? Everyone around you does it without a problem and it's common knowledge that you tip at a restaurant. Your ignorance doesn't excuse you from basic cultural understanding.
It would be like going to the middle east, doing some basic culturally offensive thing, and then being mad at the middle easterners for not accommodating your ignorance.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076312]Why not? Everyone around you does it without a problem and it's common knowledge that you tip at a restaurant. Your ignorance doesn't excuse you from basic cultural understanding.
It would be like going to the middle east, doing some basic culturally offensive thing, and then being mad at the middle easterners for not accommodating your ignorance.[/QUOTE]
I'm Canadian, this was a tourist experience. What is 'common knowledge' to you is ludicrous behavior to me.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50076039]You don't have to tip, but most people aren't cheapskate jerks and do.
You are free to be a cheapskate jerk, though.[/QUOTE]
Are you being a cheapskate jerk if you don't give away money to beggars?
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076329]I'm Canadian, this was a tourist experience. What is 'common knowledge' to you is ludicrous behavior to me.[/QUOTE]
It's your responsibility to learn it. If you don't want to put the effort into learning the absolute basic cultural issues when going to another country, then you also shouldn't be angry that they get mad at you for it.
People don't have an obligation to change their culture so foreign tourists have an easy time. Honestly, that's rediculously narcissistic.
[QUOTE]If the employer decides to give them less in wages how is that the fault of the customer. Why is it always the customer's responsibility and never the employer?[/QUOTE]
It's the customer's fault because it's an established, universally accepted, cultural fact. Everyone knows going in that they are expected to tip. Everyone knows when getting a job as a waiter that they will be getting tips as part of the deal. By going against this cultural norm YOU are the one responsible, not the entire culture around you.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=_Axel;50076354]Are you being a cheapskate jerk if you don't give away money to beggars?[/QUOTE]
There's no universally accepted cultural norm that all people are expected to give money to beggars.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076329]I'm Canadian, this was a tourist experience. What is 'common knowledge' to you is ludicrous behavior to me.[/QUOTE]
When in Rome...
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50076447]When in Rome...[/QUOTE]
I still wouldn't care enough to bring cash to something I had already paid for.
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50076466]I still wouldn't care enough to bring cash to something I had already paid for.[/QUOTE]
Right, and that makes you a narcissistic borish tourist. You know, the kind that people say US travelers often are.
If you don't care about being that, then fine. You won't be arrested for it. Just don't expect people to honor you for it either.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;50076463]If only we could pass laws forcing the employer to pay the waiters properly instead of a convoluted culture that requires the customer to cooperate.[/QUOTE]
It's not convoluted to people living in it. It's normal. It's basic. It's not a big deal at all.
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;50076487]It's a terrible basis for a stable income, why shouldn't the employer be forced to pay them properly?[/QUOTE]
Again, waiters make more with tips than without it. Don't try and make it seem like your goal is to help the wait staff.
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