I leave the change if its <3€
I dont understand giving more unless its america with that weird salary system where 70% of it is tips
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50069182]it's actually illegal to pay people $2.13 an hour in america
if waiters don't make up that in tips their employer /must/ pay the difference or else they are breaking the law[/QUOTE]
It's not enforceable, they can just say you aren't reporting your tips.
People who dont live in the US dont really have any business commenting on our tipping culture when it's not even close to comparable to theirs. If servers were paid minimum wage it wouldn't be as much of a necessity as it is but they arent. People who don't tip (again only in the US) because of some self-dignified intellectual high ground are pricks and morons.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50069195]People who dont live in the US dont really have any business commenting on our tipping culture when it's not even close to comparable to theirs. If servers were paid minimum wage it wouldn't be as much of a necessity as it is but they arent. People who don't tip (again only in the US) because of some self-dignified intellectual high ground are pricks and morons.[/QUOTE]
I tip even in restaurants that do pay their servers correctly because all they [I]have[/I] to do is take my order, if they make me smile and make it enjoyable to dine there they can absolutely have a little extra money from me.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50069195]People who dont live in the US dont really have any business commenting on our tipping culture when it's not even close to comparable to theirs. If servers were paid minimum wage[/QUOTE]
but they are
it's illegal for waiters to earn less than the minimum wage. if they don't get enough in tips, their employer /has/ to make up the difference
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50069201]I tip even in restaurants that do pay their servers correctly because all they [I]have[/I] to do is take my order, if they make me smile and make it enjoyable to dine there they can absolutely have a little extra money from me.[/QUOTE]
Yeah exactly. I tip based on service as I have no problems giving some extra to people who give really good service in a really hard and thankless job, but yeah I dont think I've ever not tipped in places where it's expected.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50069212]but they are
it's illegal for waiters to earn less than the minimum wage. if they don't get enough in tips, their employer /has/ to make up the difference[/QUOTE]
in practice, yes. but because of how taxes on tips and reporting tips and hours etc works, you will RARELY ever see that money. my weekly "paychecks", which is where i'm supposed to be reimbursed for the difference, are consistently below $3. if you think that makes up for anything, you're very wrong
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50069195]People who dont live in the US dont really have any business commenting on our tipping culture when it's not even close to comparable to theirs. If servers were paid minimum wage it wouldn't be as much of a necessity as it is but they arent. People who don't tip (again only in the US) because of some self-dignified intellectual high ground are pricks and morons.[/QUOTE]
Why do you get annoyed about people complaining about the tipping culture instead of the backwards employment system which lets them pay you $2.50 an hour?
This argument he makes just wraps around to how overpriced it is to eat out, and that tipping probably isn't the scam in question. Anyone who pursues a job waiting tables here in the states is most likely motivated to earn that tip money - regardless of how much they make on their paycheck because they [I]KNOW[/I] that's what servicing in the restaurant industry is all about. Getting tipped in cash? Hell yeah, report little to nothing on that, and just take the rest home.
If an actual fucking workable wage was given to those who work such jobs, then tipping could be abolished, and people might just pursue the job because it's now giving a steady, comfortable wage. Because even in retail, it's just fucking [I]awful[/I] to work for little to nothing. I KNOW this because my sister waits tables and earns $200 a night, while the cooks who prepare the food can't rely on tips despite being the backbone of the restaurant.
And I fucking know how hard it is to work in the food industry at minimum wage. It's exhausting. It's fucking painful.
It's hard not to want to call people out on having those jobs just for the cash-grab tipping society that it is. I hear/overhear about it all the time how they will 'not get anyone tipping well wah, wah'; while their heart is in the right place (wanting a FUCKING wage), they need to take it to the employer and the system, cause it really is a ridiculous system.
Tipping is a vicious cycle. You tip waiters because they don't earn enough, but by doing so you enable the restaurant to keep paying the waiters shit wages.
[QUOTE=Dysentery;50069161]you're absolutely right, they should be. but how does not tipping solve that problem? you're not protesting the system by not tipping your server. you're not hurting the employer at all. you're literally only hurting the server. that's fucked up[/QUOTE]
Well tipping only reinforces the notion that it's the customer's responsibility to pay for the waiter/waitress work wages and that in itself is fucking retarded. It is NOT my responsibility to pay you because I'm not the one employing you. As a rule, I tip based on my satisfaction and experience, [b]but I shouldn't fucking have to![/b] I would gladly pay a bit more per meal for servers to get paid a fucking humane wage. But, again, at the end of the day, IT IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY! But no, I get called an asshole for stating the truth, your boss needs to pay you, not me.
[QUOTE=Dysentery;50069223]in practice, yes. but because of how taxes on tips and reporting tips and hours etc works, you will RARELY ever see that money. my weekly "paychecks", which is where i'm supposed to be reimbursed for the difference, are consistently below $3. if you think that makes up for anything, you're very wrong[/QUOTE]
Protip, you're paying the same damn taxes and crap everyone else is paying. Most people get a shitload of their paychecks taken out also. Welcome to the world.
Also, if your employer is outright breaking the law by not allowing you to meet the equivalent of minimum wage, you need to file a lawsuit. End of story. Bottom line. If you aren't making the equivalent of minimum wage based on how many hours you've worked, then you need to file a lawsuit. If your wage is knocked down to 2.50 or whatever the fuck and you still break the threshold of minimum wage equivalent due to tips, even if it's a measly 3 dollars more, that's 3 dollars more than someone making minimum wage.
Your arguments suck. Waiters/waitresses HAVE to make the equivalent of minimum wage at the very least. If they aren't they have every reason to file a lawsuit because their employer is breaking the law. What most employers will do is simply fire your ass for not breaking even because it's piss easy to break even as a waiter.
[QUOTE=Dysentery;50069063]ok but the thing is, servers don't make $7.25 or $15 an hour. we make $2.13 an hour, and the rest is made up in tips. if i made $10/hr as a server, i would not give a shit if no one ever tipped me, because i'm getting paid regardless. but because of the fact that restaurants are allowed to skimp out on paying their workers and instead ask for the customers to provide a living wage instead, you not tipping is pretty shitty. blame the restaurants, sure. as a server, i don't want to rely on tips any more than you want to be asked to tip. but it is how it is[/QUOTE]
I don't want to sound like a dick but i'm not giving waiters my hard earned money for bringing me food dude, as much as i hate to say it. i work hard and I get taxed out my asshole like everyone else does. tipping is a horrendous scheme like the video says and the restaurant industry needs a huge reformation or something because it blows giving money away for nothing.
at most I definitely am willing to tip my pizza dude, I mean they drive to my house for me. They deserve some extra cash for that luxury. :v:
tipping is dumb but it is currently necessary for a lot of people.
some states have it so servers in restaurants only make like $3/hr and the rest of their wage comes from tips. I personally agree 100% with Grade. resaurents need to start paying at least minimum wage. Because ignoring the shitty wage they actually make its like oh you were nice today, heres fucking 15% of what i already paid for food. As a security guard/bouncer I don't get tipped for being nice to people. unfortunately the servers at the bar don't even split tips with us like they do with the cooks and dishwasher, but that just this place. either way.
[QUOTE=RudeMcRude;50069405]tipping is dumb but it is currently necessary for a lot of people.
some states have it so servers in restaurants only make like $3/hr and the rest of their wage comes from tips. I personally agree 100% with Grade. resaurents need to start paying at least minimum wage. Because ignoring the shitty wage they actually make its like oh you were nice today, heres fucking 15% of what i already paid for food. As a security guard/bouncer I don't get tipped for being nice to people. unfortunately the servers at the bar don't even split tips with us like they do with the cooks and dishwasher, but that just this place. either way.[/QUOTE]
Given someone in the thread has mentioned multiple times that [B]a minimum wage MUST be met by the time paychecks are rolled out regardless[/B], it is VERY clear that a lot of people are actually unaware of this rule. This perpetuates the notion that 'tipping is for the well-being of the servicers' -- and while that's fantastic, I am very happy with the notion of supporting others -- it's just showing that 1) tipping actually shouldn't be a thing and 2) this unheard law is actually putting servers at the same minimum wage as any other shite low-end job. 'Tips' are not necessary -- a livable fucking wage [I]IS[/I].
[QUOTE=fudge blood;50069398]I don't want to sound like a dick but i'm not giving waiters my hard earned money for bringing me food dude, as much as i hate to say it. i work hard and I get taxed out my asshole like everyone else does.[/QUOTE]
You should try it then if it's so piss easy that you cant be bothered to pass them some of your hard earned money. Have you considered that EVERYONE works hard at their jobs and everyone gets taxed, not just you? And yes, that includes the servers that you're not tipping because you dont think they deserve it.
You have every right to say that the tipping system here is dumb (probably everyone thinks that) but I have no respect for people that dont tip because they object to the system, or, even worse, because they dont think that the job that the servers is doing is worth pay.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50069502]You should try it then if it's so piss easy that you cant be bothered to pass them some of your hard earned money. Have you considered that EVERYONE works hard at their jobs and everyone gets taxed, not just you? And yes, that includes the servers that you're not tipping because you dont think they deserve it.
You have every right to say that the tipping system here is dumb (probably everyone thinks that) but I have no respect for people that dont tip because they object to the system, or, even worse, because they dont think that the job that the servers is doing is worth pay.[/QUOTE]
Service workers don't deserve tips, they deserve to be paid a decent wage by their employer like everyone else instead of relying on the kindness of strangers.
There's been a push in the Bay Area to increase pay for the staff whill discontinuing tipping. The main reason was because the workers in the back, mainly the cooks, don't get a tip while all the people in the front get tips.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50069502]You should try it then if it's so piss easy that you cant be bothered to pass them some of your hard earned money. Have you considered that EVERYONE works hard at their jobs and everyone gets taxed, not just you? And yes, that includes the servers that you're not tipping because you dont think they deserve it.
You have every right to say that the tipping system here is dumb (probably everyone thinks that) but I have no respect for people that dont tip because they object to the system, or, even worse, because they dont think that the job that the servers is doing is worth pay.[/QUOTE]
Look, there's two ways to make that situation fair for everyone:
- tip everyone for doing their job well
- tip nobody (unless it's convenient for yourself maybe, see the beginning of the video) and expect their employer to compensate them for doing a good job instead
One of these options is much more feasible than the other. Selective tipping just creates an additional income expectation that makes employers more comfortable with downgrading wages as long as the combined amount of wages and tips leads to a sustainable number.
If they make minimum-wage-ish, perform/provide something you can't be bothered/can't do, and have to deal with your personal idiosyncrasies while doing it, you should tip them.
[QUOTE=arby26;50069700]If they make minimum-wage-ish, perform/provide something you can't be bothered/can't do, and have to deal with your personal idiosyncrasies while doing it, you should tip them.[/QUOTE]
I suppose you tip your bus driver, cashiers and so on then?
[QUOTE=Dysentery;50069063]ok but the thing is, servers don't make $7.25 or $15 an hour. we make $2.13 an hour, and the rest is made up in tips. if i made $10/hr as a server, i would not give a shit if no one ever tipped me, because i'm getting paid regardless. but because of the fact that restaurants are allowed to skimp out on paying their workers and instead ask for the customers to provide a living wage instead, you not tipping is pretty shitty. blame the restaurants, sure. as a server, i don't want to rely on tips any more than you want to be asked to tip. but it is how it is[/QUOTE]
If nobody tipped restaurants would be obligated to pay their waiters a fair wage. It's the very behavior you're encouraging here that perpetuates the unstable situation you're describing.
[QUOTE=Mmrnmhrm;50069737]I suppose you tip your bus driver, cashiers and so on then?[/QUOTE]
Taxi drivers deserve tips, but mentioning cashier is being ridiculous. Nobody comes to the store to talk to the cashier, and they serve you for two minutes at most. Barbers, taxi drivers, waiters, bartenders, etc all work with the people, but are only paid to "do their job".
People shouldn't be paying to support a broken system, if no one tipped and it stopped being a social norm then restaurants wouldn't be able to hide behind tipping to not pay their workers minimum wage.
Getting mad at the wrong people for this bullshit just makes it so the system never gets changed.
But of course it easier to get mad at the people that can't fire you.
[QUOTE=arby26;50069825]Taxi drivers deserve tips, but mentioning cashier is being ridiculous. Nobody comes to the store to talk to the cashier, and they serve you for two minutes at most. Barbers, taxi drivers, waiters, bartenders, etc all work with the people, but are only paid to "do their job".[/QUOTE]
So you pay those simply for talking to you? Do you tip your friends as well? You realize cashiers fit your arbitrary requirements of:
[QUOTE]If they make minimum-wage-ish, perform/provide something you can't be bothered/can't do, and have to deal with your personal idiosyncrasies while doing it, you should tip them.[/QUOTE]
Right?
Also, taxi drivers deserve tips, but bus drivers don't? The fuck is that logic?
At the concession stands I work at, we get tipped whenever the customer feels like tipping because we're not allowed to interfere. Hell, leaving a tip jar out would end up with it confiscated by higher ups.
And I will say from a consumer standpoint that tipping is the one thing stopping me from ordering pizza deliveries.
[QUOTE=_Axel;50069845]So you pay those simply for talking to you? Do you tip your friends as well? You realize cashiers fit your arbitrary requirements of:
Right?
[/QUOTE]
Take my words realistically rather than very rigidly. You already know what I mean. Cashiers can very easily do their job with no social skills. Service workers can also "do their job" with no social skills, but we're being realistic here.
[QUOTE=_Axel;50069845]
Also, taxi drivers deserve tips, but bus drivers don't? The fuck is that logic?[/QUOTE]
Bus drivers are supposed to get a normal pay. Think about how personal taking a bus vs a taxi is too.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50069502]You should try it then if it's so piss easy that you cant be bothered to pass them some of your hard earned money. Have you considered that EVERYONE works hard at their jobs and everyone gets taxed, not just you? And yes, that includes the servers that you're not tipping because you dont think they deserve it.
You have every right to say that the tipping system here is dumb (probably everyone thinks that) but I have no respect for people that dont tip because they object to the system, or, even worse, because they dont think that the job that the servers is doing is worth pay.[/QUOTE]
I do tip dude. because i feel pressured to. How is this good work ethic
[QUOTE=arby26;50069945]Take my words realistically rather than very rigidly. You already know what I mean. Cashiers can very easily do their job with no social skills. Service workers can also "do their job" with no social skills, but we're being realistic here.[/QUOTE]
Are you telling me serving food requires social skills? I'm sorry but I see absolutely no difference between a cashier and a waiter in terms of skills.
[QUOTE]Bus drivers are supposed to get a normal pay. Think about how personal taking a bus vs a taxi is too.[/QUOTE]
So we should tip taxis because they don't have a normal pay because they rely on tips? Nice circular logic there.
What does things being "personal" have to do with anything? A cashier also does something personal; He processes your order, kind of like, you know, a waiter. Bus drivers or taxi drivers, either get you to your destination. Yes it's more costly to lift one person at a time, but that extra cost is already taken into account in the fare. Taxi drivers are no more deserving of tips than bus drivers are.
[QUOTE=arby26;50069825]Taxi drivers deserve tips, but mentioning cashier is being ridiculous. Nobody comes to the store to talk to the cashier, and they serve you for two minutes at most. Barbers, taxi drivers, waiters, bartenders, etc all work with the people, but are only paid to "do their job".[/QUOTE]
No it is not ridiculous. Nobody goes to a restaurant to have a chat with the waiter (and if you do you're probably being an ass and taking up their valuable time), and waiters and waitresses will probably actually serve you for around 2 to 3 minutes collectively. The cashiers meet every standard you set, you can't just go and be like NO BECAUSE SHIT I PULLED OUT OF MY ASS when people point out that this thought process is flawed.
Tipping can go fuck itself. Just pay people proper wages they can live off of or tip everyone. I'm sorry, but if you're a delivery driver, waiter, do valet, drive taxis, or whatever, there is [I]nothing[/I] special about your job that makes you worth getting tips over anyone else. I worked as a stocker, right? I was on my feet all night most nights, expected to stock huge portions of the store faster than a human being physically can, and lifting shit that was really heavy and bad on my back. And at any time if you walked in to the store, and couldn't find a bag of fucking turkey giblets, you could interrupt me at my work and pull me away to help you find your bullshit, when I'm in the middle of rushing to get all this shit done because my boss has been on my ass all night. Even if you don't actually know what it is that you're looking for and only have a vague description. Do I get a tip for helping you find your stupid shit? No!
And yet I'm pulling all the same shit. Walking, spending huge amounts of time doing work you can't, on my feet all the time, plus if you decide to just throw something on a random shelf because you don't want to go put it back where it actually belongs, I have to again take time out to go find where it belongs and place it back myself, and play janitor whenever you break glass or spill drinks or other shit in the store, and I'm helping you with your shit (except I have other things to be doing while I'm you) the moment you ask me to, and no tip. I never got one tip, no matter how much shit I put up with, and no matter how badly you treated me or how much you didn't even know what the fuck you were talking about and made my job harder for me, never tipped. I guarantee you don't even think about giving me a tip for my extra shit that I'm doing just for you. Nor did I actually ever think about wanting one.
Yes, I made a couple bucks more than minimum wage, but that's the point. You should not be making tips, you should be making a normal wage like everybody else. And if you do get at least minimum wage no matter what happens, then you aren't really any more deserving of getting tips than anyone else is.
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