[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50070297]Also, for the waiters in this thread, have you ever actually talked to your bosses about making under minimum wage? I haven't seen any of you provide a response your boss has actually given you.
It's super easy just to forget or accidentally overlook the payment of a single employee. You're definitely not going to get paid your dues if you just let it go by without saying anything. And unless your boss is a huge dick that isn't afraid of lawsuits, chances are it'll go over fine without much fuss.[/QUOTE]
Some employers can just be shitbags. My girlfriend's mum was underpaid over £1000 and they didn't pay up until she took them to court, even that took a couple of months.
I can understand not wanting to rock the boat if you're already struggling to stay afloat. You might get the $100 they owe you but then they could also make your work life hell until you are forced to quit or they come up with an excuse to get rid of you.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50070324]The reason it exists is to encourage waiters to be nice to customers, not necessarily in an exploitive way. In addition, some waiters at some restaurants do have the opportunity to make a decent chunk of cash above minimum wage. I've known people to get $200 on especially busy nights.
It'd be exploitive if employers didn't have to pay minimum wage, but again, waiters are supposed to make minimum wage no matter what. Tipping gives them an opportunity to make more than that.[/QUOTE]
But employers [B]don't[/B] always have to pay minimum wage? They only have to pay the difference, that's the problem apparently. If they had to pay the same minimum wage for all employees they can't cheat and say they already make wages through tips. If you really believe tipping culture has a positive impact then keep it, but ensure everyone is paid minimum wage no matter what, even if it means smaller tips.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;50070122]Because as stated before, its often employers will just say the tips werent properly accounted for to not have to pay the full wages
Illegal? Yeah
Can a less than min wage worker afford the legal battle + unemployment for challenging their boss? Not likely[/QUOTE]
What a silly argument. If I work 40 hours and my employer pays me 30 after saying, "nuh uh you didn't work 40 hours," I'd be calling up every attorney specializing in workers rights in no time flat. Not sure if you're hoping I don't know it exists or you just don't know about it, but attorneys LOVE cases like that. My sister is an attorney who has worked cases like that, and they often take the case with no charge to the client. The agreement is they get paid when the case is won, because it's pretty much a guaranteed win/paycheck.
If you didn't know that's the case, then you need to call a fucking attorney right now and get the money you've earned.
There's a metric fuckton of people out there willing to take up arms on your side. If your pay is getting fucked, 10 bucks says your co-workers are getting fucked too and oh boy those attorneys will be chomping at the bit to take every bit of what that restaurant is worth as a paycheck. You get the money you rightfully earned, your shitty boss gets fucked, boo hoo you gotta find a new job but you weren't exactly in a good spot getting fucked out of wages by your previous one.
Basically, there's a whole lot of excuses going on in this thread from people supporting tipping. At the end of the day, it's just you wanting more money. You aren't working any harder than anyone else working some bullshit minimum wage job. You're taking orders and food out to people, cleaning up after them sometimes. You aren't in the back getting burnt by grease, you aren't in a hotel cleaning up people's literal shit, you aren't in a retail store putting up with horseshit for extremely long shifts getting fucked on a daily basis and making fuck all.
You CHOSE that job knowing it could mean making minimum wage. You bitching about waaaah not making enough money need tips is like me bitching about military pay when I knew damn well how much I'd get paid when I signed up. I'm literally working for roughly 2 bucks an hour but I'm not walking around asking for tips because muh hard work.
[QUOTE=arby26;50070126]I've been told that if I'm not going to tip, I better ask a friend for a ride, ask a friend for a haircut, make food at home, never sit down in a casino, never sit down in a bar, etc. I decided it's not okay to go through life doing those things and not paying my dues for their time. It's okay to not believe in tipping, but to the service industry, that's the same as not believing in karma, so you should respectfully avoid their services.[/QUOTE]
Paying dues? What the fuck do you think the cost of that haircut, that meal, the cab mile counter, etc. all go to? It's no different from any other job. You go to a store and buy something, that worker who helped you find it is paid from the cost of the item you bought. That waiter is paid from the cost of the food. The barber from the cost of the haircut. You're already paying your dues by paying for the service, there's no reason to give them even more money unless they did an exceptional job.
Axel please go to nyc and spend $50-100 dollars on a meal and don't tip and try to come back the next night
[editline]4th April 2016[/editline]
give them the whole moralizing spiel
[QUOTE=Viva;50070264]
No you do. You always do. Keep looking keep applying keep working as you do. If you can't find another job you're really saying that you're going to work as a waiter until the day you die?
[/QUOTE]
A lot of people who work those jobs, indeed work there because there is nothing better or in fact, at all. There is a reason those people work there, and not because they want to. You can keep looking, but that does not pay the bills. Working does.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT4vhl8slbE"]Seriously you fuck, if you can tell that I can find a job, THEN GO AND FIND ME ONE YOU ASSHOLE![/URL]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming / video reply / get a job" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50070324]The reason it exists is to encourage waiters to be nice to customers, not necessarily in an exploitive way. In addition, some waiters at some restaurants do have the opportunity to make a decent chunk of cash above minimum wage. I've known people to get $200 on especially busy nights.
It'd be exploitive if employers didn't have to pay minimum wage, but again, waiters are supposed to make minimum wage no matter what. Tipping gives them an opportunity to make more than that.[/QUOTE]
That's not at all why tipping exists, and you're incredibly naive if you think employers use the tipping system for the benefit of their employees or customers. They use it because it saves them money
Working for tips rather than a set wage doesn't mean the service will be any better either. If that was the case, all of the service in restaurants outside of the U.S. would be absolute garbage because they get paid a set wage.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50070365]Axel please go to nyc and spend $50-100 dollars on a meal and don't tip and try to come back the next night
[editline]4th April 2016[/editline]
give them the whole moralizing spiel[/QUOTE]
How about you actually give arguments instead of believing social standards define what is right?
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50070365]Axel please go to nyc and spend $50-100 dollars on a meal and don't tip and try to come back the next night
[editline]4th April 2016[/editline]
give them the whole moralizing spiel[/QUOTE]
All you're doing is being part of the problem.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50070365]Axel please go to nyc and spend $50-100 dollars on a meal and don't tip and try to come back the next night
[editline]4th April 2016[/editline]
give them the whole moralizing spiel[/QUOTE]
meanwhile the employers are sitting in the back laughing as none of the blame is put on them despite being the entire source of the problem
[QUOTE=Dysentery;50069063]we make $2.13 an hour, and the rest is made up in tips[/QUOTE]
What the fuck is wrong with America
14 year olds in Australia earn even more than that working at Maccas
To be honest, tips do let people stay afloat pretty well, in an industry that would otherwise go down like Titanic. Most places won't be able to run with actually paying their employees the proper wage, so while unethical, you would also literally be closing down every non-fast food/non-fancy restaurant.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=TechnoSandwic;50070403]What the fuck is wrong with America[/QUOTE]
Exceptionalism ho!
I am a pizza delivery driver in the UK and I use my own vehicle to do the deliveries. I don't expect to be tipped at all because of the fact I live in the UK as pay per drop pays for my fuel twice over due to my tiny little car. Plus the wage is the legal minimum for my age.
But when people DO tip me, especially if the delivery is already paid for and they owe me nothing when I knock on their door, it's a genuine gesture of kindness and I appreciate it.
But if they don't offer a little extra change I don't care. It doesn't matter and I won't moan about it as this is how it should be.
I have looked into this whole American tipping thing and I've even heard that in some areas in the USA waiters almost depend on tips to actually even make a living which is disguising. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
[QUOTE=_Axel;50070382]How about you actually give arguments instead of believing social standards define what is right?[/QUOTE]
k if tipping is abolished you're just going to be forced to pay more for whatever you're getting and we get your money anyway except you have no say in the matter
[QUOTE=gufu;50070405]To be honest, tips do let people stay afloat pretty well, in an industry that would otherwise go down like Titanic. Most places won't be able to run with actually paying their employees the proper wage, so while unethical, you would also literally be closing down every non-fast food/non-fancy restaurant.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
Exceptionalism ho![/QUOTE]
Basically, yeah. That's the reason why it was a thing in the first place. It was so places like small town diners could hire people to do service jobs and not go under, and that's where it should stay. Private businesses with smallish staffs. Big restaurant chains like Denny's and Red Robin and such being allowed to use the same system as if they didn't have that big corporate munny to pay minimum wage is one of the biggest problems with it.
[QUOTE=gufu;50070405]To be honest, tips do let people stay afloat pretty well, in an industry that would otherwise go down like Titanic. Most places won't be able to run with actually paying their employees the proper wage, so while unethical, you would also literally be closing down every non-fast food/non-fancy restaurant.[/QUOTE]
Uuuh... How do you think restaurants manage to stay afloat outside the US without tipping then?
[QUOTE=RichyZ;50070425]Not tipping only works if its a collaberative effort, being the 1 dude not tipping in defiance of ~the culture~ is not going to solve the problem[/QUOTE]
i get that, but being antagonistic towards people who don't tip means there will never be that collaborative effort due to the stigma
[QUOTE=_Axel;50070445]Uuuh... How do you think restaurants manage to stay afloat outside the US without tipping then?[/QUOTE]
In my experience of Europe for example, is that aside from UK pubs, it's a rarity to see as many restaurants per town as there are in US.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50070426]k if tipping is abolished you're just going to be forced to pay more for whatever you're getting and we get your money anyway except you have no say in the matter[/QUOTE]
Prices rise 10-15% to accommodate higher wages, employees get paid what they deserve, and consumers are paying roughly the same amount as before. I see no problem with this and neither does pretty much every country outside of the U.S.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50070150]i just got home from my service job and i want to punch a good deal of you in the throat[/QUOTE]
it's not the customer's job to give you money man
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50070426]k if tipping is abolished you're just going to be forced to pay more for whatever you're getting and we get your money anyway except you have no say in the matter[/QUOTE]
i would rather have the price be higher but upfront than be put into a situation where if i don't put a subjective amount of money on the table the people around me will think i am an asshole
[QUOTE=gufu;50070405]To be honest, tips do let people stay afloat pretty well, in an industry that would otherwise go down like Titanic. Most places won't be able to run with actually paying their employees the proper wage, so while unethical, you would also literally be closing down every non-fast food/non-fancy restaurant.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
Exceptionalism ho![/QUOTE]
Restaurants seems to work fine in the rest of the world without mandatory tipping, why would it suddenly collapse in the US?
[QUOTE=Kommodore;50070426]k if tipping is abolished you're just going to be forced to pay more for whatever you're getting and we get your money anyway except you have no say in the matter[/QUOTE]
I'm fine with this, the increase in cost will necessarily be lower than whatever the social standard for tipping currently is: Assuming that currently every waiter makes more than minimum wage thanks to tips, then them all making minimum wage would only require an average cost that is lesser than the current average cost including tips.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=gufu;50070458]In my experience of Europe for example, is that aside from UK pubs, it's a rarity to see as many restaurants per town as there are in US.[/QUOTE]
There's more than enough restaurants in Europe. I've never been in a situation where there were not enough restaurants available when I needed one.
And if there isn't enough you could always do what RichyZ said and make your meal yourself.
I only leave a tip in the tipping jar if I feel I want the business to stay around for the future.
Like the coffee shop in my bus stop or the bar in Old Town, both which I go to on occasion. Other than that I shouldn't feel obligated to pretend to be an investor to a business that doesn't touch my life even with a ten-foot pole. I like being grateful, but I don't like being milked when even I myself am in a economically difficult situation.
I used to be a server at a bowling alley and made only $5/hr, strictly on the basis that its an entertainment center and not everyone will order something and tip. I have, as a matter of fact, went to my manager(s) and wanted to know if it was possible to NOT get paid that shitty wage and their response was shrugging at me, making the ":\" face and going "Sorry." Mostly because its not in their control either. They would also recommend that I try a different job within the center, like a cook or mechanic. I don't control what wages the company made for their employers, a lot of it is just a set base for all centers and that's that. End of story.
Trust me, I would have LOVED to march up to the CEO of AMF and demand a higher wage or abolish the tipping system completely but I know that he would have just laughed in my face and told me to fuck off. Sure, the customer isn't responsible for the minimum we make, but neither are we, sadly. I'm pretty sure at this point that if people kept demanding a higher wage and it worked, this wouldn't even a problem anymore. Fact is, it DOESN'T. People don't fucking care, its all about the green-backs, baby, and if they have to make their employees suffer for it; they will.
Even at $5/hr my paychecks would be about $100-$140 bi-weekly with about $200-$300 a week from tips. On average, that amounts to being MAYBE -$200 from a regular minimum wage budget. Serving is a shitty job because you have to work with shitty people. Those people who say "I don't get tipped for being a <stocker, welder, cashier, etc>. Why do you deserve it?" mostly because 99.9% of the time, you aren't interfacing with customers directly as much as servers/waiters/bartenders do.
I was always told to "leave my problems at the door" simply because if I came in grumpy, depressed, or had some sort of personal problem that it would impact my tips because no one likes anyone that's gloomy serving them. I wasn't allowed to have a break, or a break-down for that matter, simply because my personality played into it A LOT more than most jobs do. And not every customer will be satisfied simply because they're just picky fuckholes, or greedy, or just feel the same way that everyone does in this thread (minus those who KNOW how it is, bless your hearts)
When you don't tip, you're not fighting the system. You're making your server suffer because you just don't feel its right. I don't think its fair either, it isn't your responsibility to pay my wages, I feel you, but I don't have any control over that. If you don't want to tip, then don't go out to eat. Before I was a server, I would BARELY tip at all simply because I just didn't have the extra to spare. AFTER being a server and knew their pain, I would tip $10 minimum rather the service was good or bad because I know how difficult it can be, personally.
For those who say "Oh, get another job then!"... Believe me, dude, I would have LOVED [B]LOVED[/B] [I]LOVED[/I] to; but sadly, it just isn't that easy. I didn't even properly GET my job, it was basically handed to me because my brother worked at the same place and told them that I needed a job and they hired me. That was, of course, after scowering all over the place I could and applying to countless places to no avail and leaving that as my LAST RESORT. Right now I'm unemployed and STILL can't get a proper job because no one is hiring or I don't quite meet their high standards.
All-in-all... I think tipping is just an extra way of saying "Thank you for going all over the restaurant to bring me my food so I didn't have to and also adhering to my every whim and demand while constantly trying to lick the shit off the bottom of my shoe."
on behalf of all waiters, cooks, bartenders, baristas and so on who heretofore have been using your tips to improve their lives and who hereafter many of you will no longer be tipping because you watched a funny video on youtube i'd like to thank you for taking a moral stand. the world is sure to heed your selfless call to action.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50069109]Welding pays insanely well in the US? Can't imagine going broke as a welder.[/QUOTE]
I started at $30 an hour welding but it's not something everyone can do and sure not an environment everyone can handle.
you will never hear the word "fuck" more often than when working on a pipeline
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;50069114]
Tipping in America always sounds like a nightmare, was it like 10% or something like that?[/QUOTE]
Good lord its leaving two or three extra dollars at the end of your meal. What a nightmare.
Why is it not illegal to use tips to pay for an employees basic wage?
I mean that seems like a fairly simple solution to the problem.
[QUOTE=Rufia;50070586]Why is it not illegal to use tips to pay for an employees basic wage?
I mean that seems like a fairly simple solution to the problem.[/QUOTE]
if after tips you don't make at least minimum wage then the employer is required to reimburse you.
So from what I've gathered from this thread, tipping in the U.S. is essentially a sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing. Am I getting that right?
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