[QUOTE=Starpluck;50073686]It is not our responsibility as the consumer to fight for the rights of waiters/waitresses. If YOU want better pay— then it is your responsibility to do it.[/QUOTE]
Short of lodging a complaint, the only truly powerful tool for a consumer is to boycott restaurants that fall under this banner - even then, that requires a large number of people who frequent the business in the local area, and also to have the restaurant relying on that demographic.
If the restaurant largely caters to tourists then that boycott power is greatly diminished through ignorance.
[QUOTE=Aetna;50073629]*Applicable only to the American tipping system*
The amount of ignorance flooding the first page is astounding. Dysentery laid it out in words a child could understand and people are still defending not tipping their servers? I can't believe how selfish some people are. If you can't afford to pay the bill + tip then don't eat out, it's that simple.
- You tip because servers are paid less than minimum wage.
- Employers do NOT match up to minimum wage because it's easy to say their servers pocketed their cash tips and did not report them. The system is unenforceable.
- Not tipping the server will not change this broken system and will only hurt the server.
- If you can't afford to tip, go buy some fucking groceries and cook for yourself.
- If you genuinely care about this topic so deeply, make your way into politics and change the system from the ground up. There is NO OTHER WAY and complaining about it changes nothing.
I've never even worked in a service based industry and I still understand the importance, no matter how corrupt or convoluted it is. I tip based upon my server's performance, but never leave under 15%, unless they were a complete cunt. Tipping my server isn't me showing off, or proving my wealth, or impressing my peers, it's supporting a very poorly paid service industry employee. If you don't do this, you [B]are an asshole[/B].[/QUOTE]
Textbook example of remedying the issue, not even thinking of fixing the issue at its core, and then blaming us for that.
Honestly US Tipping Culture is what makes shopping/going out to eat so different than in the UK, i mean holy shit.
[QUOTE=Bradyns;50073726]Short of lodging a complaint, the only truly powerful tool for a consumer is to boycott restaurants that fall under this banner - even then, that requires a large number of people who frequent the business in the local area, and also to have the restaurant relying on that demographic.
If the restaurant largely caters to tourists then that boycott power is greatly diminished through ignorance.[/QUOTE]
I think the reason why tipping reform will never happen is because no one who has power legitimately cares. To be someone in the position of actually reforming legislation in the service industry, you'd have to presumably have been a waiter that abandoned the industry, climbed the social ladder and ended up as a top executive. But by then— you will have no interest in fighting for waiters anymore.
If you started minimum wage at some restaurant and eventually became a Congressperson some 20 years later— you will have no interest in revisiting that dark aspect of your life.
Waiters themselves can't enact reform since they aren't powerful and are lowly-paid. And by the time they are powerful enough— they simply do not care. It is a vicious cycle, but it would have been ended if any of the once-waiters or waitresses stood to their guns and sought to reform the rights they never had. But nope, suddenly they don't give a shit about you as a waiter now that they have climbed out of the rat race.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50073686]The same could be to said to waiters and waitresses. In fact— it is more applicable to them.
It is not our responsibility as the consumer to fight for the rights of waiters/waitresses. If YOU want better pay— then it is your responsibility to do it.
We are not going to tip you and fight for you in the political arena at the same time. The notion that is our job to not only pay waiters' salaries, but to also [I]fight[/I] in Congress for waiters is ludicrous. Do something on your own for once. We are not going to babysit you the full mile.
"If you genuinely care so deeply about making sure waiters are paid, make your way into politics and change the system from the ground up."
"There is NO OTHER WAY for a waiter and complaining as a waiter changes nothing."[/QUOTE]
What's up with all the "you's"? I'm not a service industry worker. I don't receive tips and never have. I'm just not a jaded guy who doesn't like to tip people that bring me my food on a platter, constantly check up on me, and make sure I leave with a good experience in mind.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;50073755]I think the reason why tipping reform will never happen is because no one who has power legitimately cares. To be someone in the position of actually reforming legislation in the service industry, you'd have to presumably have been a waiter that abandoned the industry, climbed the social ladder and ended up as a top executive. But by then— you will have no interest in fighting for waiters anymore.
If you started minimum wage at some restaurant and eventually became a Congressperson some 20 years later— you will have no interest in revisiting that dark aspect of your life.
Waiters themselves can't enact reform since they aren't powerful and are lowly-paid. And by the time they are powerful enough— they simply do not care. It is a vicious cycle, but it would have been ended if any of the once-waiters or waitresses stood to their guns and sought to reform the rights they never had. But nope, suddenly they don't give a shit about you as a waiter now that they have climbed out of the rat race.[/QUOTE]
Because if they "climbed out" (you make it sound easy) they'd have their jobs replaced in a heartbeat. It's not like every server in the US is going to boycott simultaneously, and when they do, the company will fill their positions by the end of the day by people who are willing to work for even less.
[QUOTE=Bradyns;50073726]Short of lodging a complaint, the only truly powerful tool for a consumer is to boycott restaurants that fall under this banner - even then, that requires a large number of people who frequent the business in the local area, and also to have the restaurant relying on that demographic.
If the restaurant largely caters to tourists then that boycott power is greatly diminished through ignorance.[/QUOTE]
In that case though, wouldn't restaurants that cater to tourists be the ones where tipping culture is the least powerful? Since non-Americans don't systematically tip their waiters.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;50073803]You are literally allowing yourself to get taken advantage of
Threads like these always make me not want to even consider tipping because I have to read posts from members of the service industry just acting like they're entitled to 15 percent of my meal cost.
Like seriously read your post. Why would I or any other customer go out of my way to make sure you're paid minimum wage.
You're not some illegal immigrant hired to do housekeeping or landscaping so stop letting people take advantage of you and then start hiding behind the fact that you are literally not being paid minimum wage which is illegal. [b]In fact a decent majority of your post is "I'm complacent in the fact that my boss undergoes criminal practices that affect my livelihood".[/b]
And at the end of the day I'll still give people a tip. All because I understand that waiters are tipped below minimum wage and with attitudes like yours the situation won't change for a long time. Not to mention the societal consequences if I decide to not tip someone.[/QUOTE]
You just proved that you didn't read my post. I'm not a damn server or service industry worker. Maybe I should place it in bold at the top of every post so people actually read it.
[QUOTE=Department of Labor]A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.[/QUOTE]
for the info on diff states heres the link
[url]http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;50068953]If I'm at a restaurant and I get good food and good service, I leave a dollar. Doesn't matter how much or how little the bill was. The only other time I ever tip is when I get a haircut and I really like it. Again, $1.
People who calculate tips are dumb cunts.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they're the dumb ones
If someone tipped me $1 when I was making 2.13/hr as a server is have followed your ass to the door and given it back
Clearly you need it more
[QUOTE=Primigenes;50073866]No I read your post
Sorry to tell you this but no one cares. It was just easier to formulate a post as if I was speaking directly to someone in the service industry and I'm pretty sure other people feel the same way. Not to mention it doesn't change what my post(or even Starpluck's) is attempting to convey.[/QUOTE]
So what is your suggestion, exactly? I don't understand what you guys are trying to get at. We all understand the system is broken, corrupt, and taking advantage of a younger, less experienced workforce, but ultimately what can you and I, as a consumer, do about it?
And if we did away with tipping you can bet your meals gonna be a bit more expensive to make up for it
[QUOTE=Kylel999;50073882]If someone tipped me $1 when I was making 2.13/hr as a server is have followed your ass to the door and given it back
Clearly you need it more[/QUOTE]
You don't deserve shit if you followed through.
You cannot get paid below minimum wage if you don't get enough tips though? A lot of people in this thread think otherwise.
[URL]http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htm[/URL]
[quote]Minimum Wage Problems:
Where an employee does not receive sufficient tips to make up the difference between the direct (or cash) wage payment (which must be at least $2.13 per hour) and the minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference.[/quote]
You/your employer doesn't know your own laws regarding tipping and the minimum wage? It was last revised 2013. I think you better get that sorted out if you aren't meeting minimum wage.
I tip a lot. But one time when eating at this local Asian eatery with my girlfriend, I did not leave a tip. I was followed outside in the parking lot by an exasperated and frazzled lady. "Hold on! You forgot something!"
Relieved at the fact that I nearly forgot my phone or wallet, the lady informed me that I forgot "to tip."
The fact you would follow someone out because they gave you $1 makes you an ungrateful little shit, undeserving of any at all.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;50073914]You cannot get paid below minimum wage if you don't get enough tips though? A lot of people in this thread think otherwise.
[URL]http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htm[/URL]
You/your employer doesn't know your own laws regarding tipping and the minimum wage? It was last revised 2013. I think you better get that sorted out if you aren't meeting minimum wage.[/QUOTE]
i literateally posted that
[QUOTE=_Axel;50073805]In that case though, wouldn't restaurants that cater to tourists be the ones where tipping culture is the least powerful? Since non-Americans don't systematically tip their waiters.[/QUOTE]
It can also be inter-state or intra-state tourists.
[QUOTE=mastfire;50073933]i literateally posted that[/QUOTE]
I was on a different page oops
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50071742]
as far as i'm concerned if its optional, i'm not going to pull out the calculator and figure out 23.45% of the cost of my meal (adding up all of the various factors that come into play) just so that americans feel like they are freed from some stupid archaic "tradition" that barely began about 80 years ago
[/QUOTE]
No one uses a damn calculator. Meal was 15 bucks? Leave two or three dollars. Meal 30 bucks? Leave five or six. Its really not that hard.
[editline]5th April 2016[/editline]
Some places even build the tip into the bill.
The mandatory tipping has only made my experience worse going to restaurants in the US. Worst place was an airport restaurant where we sat and waited a long time for a shitty, expensive burger; because of the delays the waiter was almost panicking and begging us for fucking tips. Then they couldn't take my mastercard, so I had to go get some cash from an ATM because I only had barely enough for the meal in cash - of course it was $20 minimum, which just put an extra piece of turd on that experience.
Really it was just a terrible airport in general, we only went to that restaurant because there were literally only two to choose from in our gate.
Either way, tipping sucks, I did it (in the US) because I know it's expected, but in general I only tip if I got really friendly service or something like that. Y'know, as a bonus for actually good service.
"Mandatory" tipping kinda discourages great service as well - you basically get 15-20% no matter what, and I doubt most people are really willing to go beyond that either way.
Yeah I when to the US last year and I was surprised at how everyone expect you to pay them a tip, the hotel staff, the restaurant staff, the taxi driver, the airport staff and then it asks you what percentage of a tip you want to leave... from 3 present options, which are over 10% of the bill. Makes me glad I don't live there.
[QUOTE=RoboChimp;50074280]Yeah I when to the US last year and I was surprised at how everyone expect you to pay them a tip, the hotel staff, the restaurant staff, the taxi driver, [B]the airport staff and then it asks you what percentage of a tip you want to leave... from 3 present options[/B], which are over 10% of the bill. Makes me glad I don't live there.[/QUOTE]
Where did you go?
[QUOTE=Aetna;50073629]I've never even worked in a service based industry and I still understand the importance, no matter how corrupt or convoluted it is. I tip based upon my server's performance, but never leave under 15%, unless they were a complete cunt. Tipping my server isn't me showing off, or proving my wealth, or impressing my peers, it's supporting a very poorly paid service industry employee. If you don't do this, you [B]are an asshole[/B].[/QUOTE]
I'd rather be an asshole than to partake in system which frankly doesn't need perpetuating.
I pay what they state the price to be.
[QUOTE=RoboChimp;50074280]Yeah I when to the US last year and I was surprised at how everyone expect you to pay them a tip, the hotel staff, the restaurant staff, the taxi driver, the airport staff and then it asks you what percentage of a tip you want to leave... from 3 present options, which are over 10% of the bill. Makes me glad I don't live there.[/QUOTE]
If it's one of those tablet style payment terminals you have the option to enter your own percentage or amount.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50074431]I'd rather be an asshole than to partake in system which frankly doesn't need perpetuating.
I pay what they state the price to be.[/QUOTE]
That's fine, but don't pretend your hurting the employers or anything when you do it.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50074574]That's fine, but don't pretend your hurting the employers or anything when you do it.[/QUOTE]
i'm not hurting them, the people who pay tips in the first place are
[QUOTE=plunger435;50074574]That's fine, but don't pretend your hurting the employers or anything when you do it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's it. It's fine. The employers are still wankstains, the waiters are still underpaid and the customer saves a couple quid and at the end of the day, unless the employers are going to start paying decently and raise their service quality to be competitive instead of demanding mandatory tips for any level of service they remain wankstains along with their respective waiters.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50074740]i'm not hurting them, the people who pay tips in the first place are[/QUOTE]
I said employers not waiters.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50074927]I said employers not waiters.[/QUOTE]
oo i misread employers as employees sorry
FYI you generally make way more on tips than you would getting paid minimum or even a living wage so yeah by not tipping you're definitely hurting the waiters
[QUOTE=butre;50075416]FYI you generally make way more on tips than you would getting paid minimum or even a living wage so yeah by not tipping you're definitely hurting the waiters[/QUOTE]
So why are all the defenders of tipping here crying about waiters getting fucked by their employers and all if they make way more than minimum wage?
Why should waiters be paid way more than minimum wages when jobs that require just as much skill and are just as tedious barely make over minimum?
If what you're saying is correct then by not tipping I'm not hurting them more than I'm hurting the cashier by not giving her free money. Nobody gives free money to cashiers yet nobody bats an eye.
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