[QUOTE=layla;22379235]It's not derailing because construct uses DirectX to render. :raise:[/QUOTE]
You're still telling everyone not to use Construct
[editline]05:01PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=A Glitch;22379316]i don't suppose anybody could recomend a 3D game maker that is easy to use? i'm going to start messing around with the unreal 3 engine over the holidays but is there an easier jump off point?
i wish i'd know about this 2 years ago though..[/QUOTE]
Source.
[QUOTE=cccritical;22379501]You're still telling everyone not to use Construct[/QUOTE]
I did? I'm pointing out that you would be going through another layer of abstraction when it would be more efficient to use a graphics api directly. Seeing as construct is primarily a 2D framework.
I'm not telling anyone what to do.
I'm not sure why you're getting so upset, my reply wasn't to you.
[editline]12:12AM[/editline]
Anyways, back to my home section, where opinions are allowed.
[QUOTE=SgtTupelo;22367129]I have used this since it had its own subforum here in Facepunch. I've gotten pretty good at it, I can make almost any kind of game I want.
Only problem for me is GRAPHICS! I'm absolutely HORRIBLE at making ANY kind of graphics for my games, let alone animations. :frown:
[editline]03:43PM[/editline]
Runescape has a HUUUUGE community but it doesn't make it any better now does it?[/QUOTE]
Nononono, runescape and counter-strike, etc aren't development programs. A larger community gives it a progressive bonus, meaning a lot more tutorials, documentation, plugins, etc are available. You should get outside of the game mindset of communities and into the development mindset if you're going to argue those points.
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22383893]Eh, you'll never be able to beat just manually coding everything. Better results, plus this just takes all the fun out of it. It's like cheating. Why don't you actually learn how to code rather than click a few buttons with this and go "omg look i can make gamez!!1"[/QUOTE]
jesus god we've been through this
1. It's faster
2. You don't need to know a coding language
3. We'll use it if we want :frog:
[QUOTE=layla;22379615]I did? I'm pointing out that you would be going through another layer of abstraction when it would be more efficient to use a graphics api directly. Seeing as construct is primarily a 2D framework.
I'm not telling anyone what to do.
I'm not sure why you're getting so upset, my reply wasn't to you.
[editline]12:12AM[/editline]
[b]Anyways, back to my home section, where opinions are allowed.[/b][/QUOTE]
Hahahahahahahahaha
[editline]07:54PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22383893]Eh, you'll never be able to beat just manually coding everything. Better results, plus this just takes all the fun out of it. It's like cheating. Why don't you actually learn how to code rather than click a few buttons with this and go "omg look i can make gamez!!1"[/QUOTE]
No, shutup. It's all about the end result, the consumer or client doesn't give a shit about how you made it unless he's an elitist fuck. Who cares how the product was made as long as the end result is fun. You don't get to decide what is and isn't cheating and what is or isn't fun for the developer, get off your fucking high horse just because you know how to program.
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22383893]Eh, you'll never be able to beat just manually coding everything. Better results, plus this just takes all the fun out of it. It's like cheating. Why don't you actually learn how to code rather than click a few buttons with this and go "omg look i can make gamez!!1"[/QUOTE]
Are you scared of innovation?
itt: progammers are scared
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22384418]Are you scared of innovation?[/QUOTE]
No, it's programming elitism couples with fear of change.
Many programmers hate simple game makers in the fact that a programmer has to work his ass off to get something awesome and what not, when a game maker may be able to achieve the same thing easily.
[editline]08:06PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=cccritical;22384487]itt: progammers are scared[/QUOTE]
itt: Elitist Programmers are scared. Don't generalize, we aren't all haters of these types of tools.
[QUOTE=NorthernGate;22384510]No, it's programming elitism couples with fear of change.
Many programmers hate simple game makers in the fact that a programmer has to work his ass off to get something awesome and what not, when a game maker may be able to achieve the same thing easily.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's what I mean.
You shouldn't have to learn how to program to make a game. You just shouldn't have to.
Sweet, it's only going to take about 2 minutes to download on an internet connection that may or may not be mine!
[editline]10:25PM[/editline]
the "% downloaded" is going up, BUT SO IS THE TIME REMAINING
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22384815]That's like saying you shouldn't have to learn how to paint to make a painting. So you can only fingerpaint and instead of learning things the proper way you use stencils.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about in a perfect world.
[editline]10:37PM[/editline]
And besides we're just talking about video games here. This is software. Not paintings or tables or whatever. This is about games, it shouldn't matter how it's made.
[QUOTE=NorthernGate;22384287]Hahahahahahahahaha
[editline]07:54PM[/editline]
No, shutup. It's all about the end result, the consumer or client doesn't give a shit about how you made it unless he's an elitist fuck. [B]Who cares how the product was made as long as the end result is fun.[/B] You don't get to decide what is and isn't cheating and what is or isn't fun for the developer, get off your fucking high horse just because you know how to program.[/QUOTE]
This is what specifically got me.
I'm half/half with dvondrake with what he said but what you have here, that's different.
I care how a product was made. If some guy did a completely half-assed job of making a game, causing a fuckton of bugs and other problems, it's perfectly acceptable as long as the game has some aspect of fun.
The same could be made for food. Some company could make something like a cupcake, filling it with obscene amounts of fats, sugars, and other things that are not even remotely needed,. Their factory can be incredibly dirty, workers with no hairnets scratching their dandruff filled head over vats of cake batter, but hey, fuck my health if it's delicious!
Personally i think this thing is amazing, it lets people who can't code make their own games. But obviously it has limitations. Dvondrake, in a way, i think is a bit offended because if he wants to make a game he will slave over his keyboard writing tons of lines of code to create a single level and get his outcome. In the mean time, some kid in his basement is bored and slaps together almost the same thing with no effort involved.
While that sounds awesome that some kid could do the same, it's not necessarily fair to those who had to work damn hard for it.
Also i know what he means by "cheating"
I often skin source games, when starting out i would take photo's from the net and paste them into the vtf file and just go "LOL DONE"
Now, while sometimes i still do that, i rarely do. Instead i will make a texture from scratch almost all the time. This allows me to completely accredit myself, give me a better sense of satisfaction, and i get EXACTLY what i want. Instead of searching for just the right picture of a texture online, i just create it! Plus it's also increasing my skill in photoshop.
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22384938]So a game that's made very poorly and has bugs everywhere and absolutely no optimization is just as good as something that's had a lot more effort put into it?
I'm fine with people who don't know how to program and who have no interest in learning how using things like this to play around and maybe make something neat along the way. I'm not saying it won't have the potential to be fun. But nothing can ever be fully automated. It [b]does[/b] have it's limitations. Nothing can ever be perfect. Manual work will always be better.[/QUOTE]
You clearly haven't used construct
[QUOTE=NorthernGate;22384510]No, it's programming elitism couples with fear of change.
[B]Many programmers hate simple game makers in the fact that a programmer has to work his ass off to get something awesome and what not, when a game maker may be able to achieve the same thing easily.[/B]
[editline]08:06PM[/editline]
itt: Elitist Programmers are scared. Don't generalize, we aren't all haters of these types of tools.[/QUOTE]
This, i could also see as a main cause of a sever decrease in game quality, in preference to quantity.
"WHY DEVOTE YOUR TIME TO MAKING ONE AWESOME, OPTIMIZED GAME WHEN YOU COULD MAKE 7 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES IN A 2 WEEK PERIOD!"
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22385032]Not completely. I know my end result will be better, and it'll be a hell of a lot more fun to create. It just annoys me that all these kids go around saying that they "make games" just because they know how to click buttons in the right order. I guess it is partially that but I still think the end result will be better. There's too many limitations when working with something like that. I'm annoyed that people don't seem to understand that. Sure it's great, sure what you make with it may be very fun, but manually coding things with always be better for those who know how to in the first place. I'd consider actually learning how to code and potentially making something better later on once you know what you're doing.
NOTHING CAN BE PERFECT, DO YOU COMPREHEND!?![/QUOTE]
I am telling you, you can make fully featured video games in Construct without writing any code. I've done it before, it works.
"making games" isn't about programming anyway.
Obviously there is more to just programming. There's art, audio, cinematic...ect. to take into account but programing is, for the most part, the largest chunk of the game.
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22385032]
NOTHING CAN BE PERFECT, DO YOU COMPREHEND!?![/QUOTE]
nothing, like coding for example
[editline]10:56PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22385068]
"making games" isn't about programming anyway.[/QUOTE]
Damn tootin'. You can make an entire Source mod without a single engine edit, when you think about it Python or C++ is as much a starting point as Source, nothing is completely from scratch.
[QUOTE=cccritical;22385094]nothing, like coding for example[/QUOTE]
no shit, he says that in there.
[QUOTE=mysteryman;22385091]Obviously there is more to just programming. There's art, audio, cinematic...ect.[/QUOTE]
Ahem, and game design.
[editline]10:57PM[/editline]
the most important part
[QUOTE=cccritical;22385094]nothing, like coding for example
[editline]10:56PM[/editline]
Damn tootin'. You can make an entire Source [B]mod[/B] without a single engine edit, when you think about it Python or C++ is as much a starting point as Source, nothing is completely from scratch.[/QUOTE]
mod =/= a full game.
[editline]12:58AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22385127]Ahem, and game design.
[editline]10:57PM[/editline]
the most important part[/QUOTE]
uhh, coding is part of game design.
This looks neat. But it takes out the fun of programming for me. Although, you can add new features to it via plugins with c++. I really like the way they did the interface and gives you direct access to events, it makes the games so much more complex. Plus, it makes network code much easier to manage.
[QUOTE=mysteryman;22385130]uhh, coding is part of game design.[/QUOTE]
I hope you never make games.
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22385205]I hope you never make games.[/QUOTE]
Do me a favor and read this article.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_design[/url]
Several times it mentions that scripting languages are used to manipulate/add things.
I'm also aware that the article also hints one or two times at developers using pre-existing software like this and game maker. So we both take a hit here.
Also how much longer is this going to go on. We both know you're just bitching and i'm just bitching.
[QUOTE=mysteryman;22385276]Do me a favor and read this article.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_design[/url]
Several times it mentions that scripting languages are used to manipulate/add things.
I'm also aware that the article also hints one or two times at developers using pre-existing software like this and game maker. So we both take a hit here.
Also how much longer is this going to go on. We both know you're just bitching and i'm just bitching.[/QUOTE]
You don't understand.
Game design and programming are two different things.
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22385315]You don't understand.
Game design and programming are two different things.[/QUOTE]
they interweave with each other. Yes they are separate but sometimes a programmer must intervene to do something.
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22385304]I'm sure, you can make "fully featured" games using this tool, and I have no doubt that they'll be fun to play if it's something with a concept worth playing, but the bottom line is the quality will never surpass that of a good, manually coded game. Nothing is perfect. There are limitations to this tool, just as there are any other tools promising similar end results with minimal effort.[/quote]
Games aren't about code or how you make it. It's about the game. What you're playing is what's important. I can make plenty games in Construct that are better than games made with 'real' code any day of the week. It's not about code.
[quote]
Were you born yesterday? Coding isn't some new concept that nobody uses. In fact, it's what everyone uses. I'd like you to name me any well-known, current game that uses a game maker like this. I'll guarantee you every single professionally made game out there right now, since the beginning of time, has been made by coding it and not by using a game maker. There's a reason these things aren't used by the pro's. Everything on computers are made by coding them. All games are made by coding them. I'm [b]really[/b] failing to see your logic here. I hope [b]you[/b] never make games.
[/quote]
Coding shouldn't be required to make video games. And it isn't required because Construct exists.
[editline]11:19PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22385359]You can't make a game without programming it. It doesn't just jump out of thin air. Sure you can use tools like these but with all the limitations you'd be crazy to use this over programming things yourself, the way you want to.[/quote]
What limitations.
[editline]11:20PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=mysteryman;22385427]sometimes a programmer must intervene to do something.[/QUOTE]
I really don't understand what you mean
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22385442]Games aren't about code [/QUOTE]
HEY GUYS I MADE AN AWESOME GAME!
"what's this all i see is frozen pictures of characters"
OH THAT'S THE GAME I CAN'T CODE AND BESIDES GAMES AREN'T ABOUT CODE!
[QUOTE=mysteryman;22385506]HEY GUYS I MADE AN AWESOME GAME!
"what's this all i see is frozen pictures of characters"
OH THAT'S THE GAME I CAN'T CODE AND BESIDES GAMES AREN'T ABOUT CODE![/QUOTE]
Sounds like he made a horrible game. If he used Construct he could have made a good game and wouldn't have to code.
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22385442]
I really don't understand what you mean[/QUOTE]
Say a game artist makes a level design, it's created but then he realizes "hey some kind of obstruction like an enemy that does XXX would really make this level harder and more fun to play!" So he designs the enemy, but just because he is drawn all pretty doesn't mean he's done, he goes to a programmer to get the AI for it and other such things.
[editline]01:26AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Evil_Toaster;22385545]Sounds like he made a horrible game. If he used Construct he could have made a good game and wouldn't have to code.[/QUOTE]
because the code is already there! So, as a matter of fact, code DOES matter to a game. You just didn't make it yourself and you have to work with what's given to you.
[editline]01:27AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=dvondrake;22385550]
Okay now you're just trolling, assuming you weren't earlier. That's it, I'm outta' here.[/QUOTE]
Yeah i think you're right man, earlier i was laughing my ass off and some of his replies but now they're just getting moronic. Something's up.
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