Battlefield 4 Provides a Rich and Satisfying Game Experience
91 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Why485;50192349]Real air combat is completely different and incomparable to the super simplified BF3 and BF4 physics. There are so many more variables involved and if you just pull the stick back and hold it back you're going to fall out of the sky.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I know. I'm thinking it must have been really hard for rookie pilots. Heck, it's hard to imagine those early jet pilots learning to fly those machines without all the simulators we have available to us today.
[editline]24th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Why485;50192378]Also I used to fly a lot with some of the best BF4 pilots in the game through weird happenstance. I've always loved flying in the Battlefield games, [URL="http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/IIIBLACKANGELIII/stats/347803221/pc/"]but I can't imagine how these guys like it so much that it's all they do in Battlefield[/URL]. I don't want to pick on him, because he's a really cool guy, but I still find it insane.
I find BF4 dogfights a chore. When you're up against somebody who isn't an idiot, it's a complete waste of time for both players because there are much more important things they could be doing instead. While the concept of a corner airspeed is a sound one, and diving/climbing affecting your speed being right, there's just not enough depth to BF4's physics to make it interesting.[/QUOTE]
I try to be at least passable with all vehicles in the game just because I like being a well-rounded player that can adapt to any situation. I think that players that focus too much on such a limited aspect of the game are only sabotaging themselves.
I agree that if two player piloting jets are on the same skill level, they somehow end up "negating" each other even if that's what they're "supposed" to be doing.
I think one of the biggest culprit is map design. Dawnbreaker is probably my favorite map because all the buildings give it the most balanced air gameplay compared to any other maps. On that map, helicopters, jets and MAA actually play hide and seek with eachother with each having a way to hide from one another. Infantry and tank can take cover near or inside buildings. Helicopters can weave and bob between towers, having to balance agility with speed. Jets can actually ditch another jet by diving in the city and going between buildings. MAA doesn't have a line of sight covering the whole map but it can ambush more easily. Unfortunately most maps are big, flat and empty, severely limiting the metagame.
I love how the music muffles a bit when he goes into thirdperson, hah
[QUOTE=Red-Tail;50192433]I love how the music muffles a bit when he goes into thirdperson, hah[/QUOTE]
Welcome to Facepunch!
I totally stole that idea from a BF3 video I watched a long time ago. I think it was from Stun_gravy but I can't remember which one exactly.
It's been a while since I've played BF4 or BF3, but I used to be an avid jet flyer. I try to avoid loops like that by popping ECM and just going into a different direction and try to get on the guy's tail.
If I wanted to fly air in a joint combat FPS I would rather play arma or PS2. PS2 can have some pretty interesting air combat, and pretty much every branch of your team can lock down an area if there are enough of them.
Loops arent much a problem in PS because it is an ineffective method of preventing a gun solution.
[QUOTE=sa2fan;50192622]It's been a while since I've played BF4 or BF3, but I used to be an avid jet flyer. I try to avoid loops like that by popping ECM and just going into a different direction and try to get on the guy's tail.[/QUOTE]
I don't rely on radar at all. I have FOV set to max and use 3rd person to check where the enemy jet's wingtip vortices are. Using ECM to trick the enemy only works on a very narrow set of people that are smart enough to check the radar but dumb enough to use it as a crutch.
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;50191741]Challenge yourself! Try to gun down infantry with a stealth jet and collect the resulting salt.[/QUOTE]
I've used the F-35 to capture flags get on my level m8
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;50191741]Challenge yourself! Try to gun down infantry with a stealth jet and collect the resulting salt.[/QUOTE]
Also, this was much easier in BF3.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;50192759]I've used the F-35 to capture flags get on my level m8[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jguzrELqCRI"]I'd like to see you try that on my watch, punk.[/URL]
"Engaging" my ass.
I used to play BF3 jets but after War Thunder, I can't help but see Battlefield dogfighting as nothing more than just "turn right as hard as you can"
[QUOTE=GhostShoes;50192913]"Engaging" my ass.
I used to play BF3 jets but after War Thunder, I can't help but see Battlefield dogfighting as nothing more than just "turn right as hard as you can"[/QUOTE]
Well, let me put it this way: both games have ramming the enemy as a valid tactic, haha.
[QUOTE=Why485;50192349]Real air combat is completely different and incomparable to the super simplified BF3 and BF4 physics. [/QUOTE]
Technically, even with Battlefield's map sizes, you'd be locking onto the guy at significant ranges without even having visual contact
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50192944]Technically, even with Battlefield's map sizes, you'd be locking onto the guy at significant ranges without even having visual contact[/QUOTE]
Tell me about it, I watch [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaobGr1Fd8"]ralfidude for that kind of shit[/URL].
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;50192759]I've used the F-35 to capture flags get on my level m8[/QUOTE]
I've done that before. I did start to think that maybe my enemies were just braindead however as it's super easy to deal with a jet like that.
I could never get in to dogfighting in the Battlefield series. It's a lot of work for very little payoff. It's much better to perform air support in a jet, as you'll actually be impacting the enemy tickets, and will also as a bonus distract the tryhards in jets trying to prove a point by taking you out.
Who gives a fuck if you get shot down, in a single run you could easily put a sizable dent in their tickets, all their pilot did was take one guy down and take a jet out of commission for a few seconds.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50193159]I've done that before. I did start to think that maybe my enemies were just braindead however as it's super easy to deal with a jet like that.
I could never get in to dogfighting in the Battlefield series. It's a lot of work for very little payoff. It's much better to perform air support in a jet, as you'll actually be impacting the enemy tickets, and will also as a bonus distract the tryhards in jets trying to prove a point by taking you out.
Who gives a fuck if you get shot down, in a single run you could easily put a sizable dent in their tickets, all their pilot did was take one guy down and take a jet out of commission for a few seconds.[/QUOTE]
The reason stealth jets are important in BF4 is because they absolutely wreck attack jets. Attack jets, if left unchecked, are an absolute menace to enemy vehicles. The Attack Jet is definitely the more directly useful air unit, but they're worthless if there's a single enemy Stealth Jet in the air that's not piloted by a total retard. This is why I get so angry at people just using airplanes as taxis. Having one Stealth Jet in the air at all times is absolutely critical to making sure your attack jets can do anything worthwhile.
It's why I tend to fly the fighter over the attacker. I can almost never count on a friendly fighter pilot to keep the skies clear, and the Attack Jet was heavily nerfed in dogfights making it very difficult to provide your own air cover by just being vigilant.
Back around release though, the Attack Jet was ridiculously OP and a better fighter than the fighter. It was even better (read more OP) than the jets in BF3 were in their influence on the ground war.
[QUOTE=Why485;50193192]Back around release though, the Attack Jet was ridiculously OP and a better fighter than the fighter. [B]It was even better (read more OP) than the jets in BF3 were in their influence on the ground war[/B].[/QUOTE]
Eughhhh. BF3 attack jets were pretty brutal if the pilot was actually doing their job and not just dogfighting other attack jets. For something to be [B]more[/B] OP? Fuck all that. No.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50193205]Eughhhh. BF3 attack jets were pretty brutal if the pilot was actually doing their job and not just dogfighting other attack jets. For something to be [B]more[/B] OP? Fuck all that. No.[/QUOTE]
Well, the problem with ignoring enemy jets is that it opens up yourself to getting killed by them, and if you're not actively defending against an enemy fighter you are sitting duck and trivially to kill. Once you get killed by them, it's very hard to regain dominance because a good pilot will spawn camp your plane to make sure you never get back in the air. Objectively, the best course of action is to ensure total air dominance that way you can spend more time shooting at stuff on the ground. If you try doing A-G work before clearing the skies you are opening yourself to getting killed in seconds by an enemy jet, and in the worst case, giving air dominance to the enemy team for the rest of the game.
There were some "gentleman's agreements" way back in the BF2 days where pilots would agree to not kill each other so they could just whore points by killing everything on the ground with impunity. That kind of breaks the game and as much fun as those days were, I don't miss that.
[QUOTE=Why485;50193229]Well, the problem with ignoring enemy jets is that it opens up yourself to getting killed by them, and if you're not actively defending against an enemy fighter you are sitting duck and trivially to kill. Once you get killed by them, it's very hard to regain dominance because a good pilot will spawn camp your plane to make sure you never get back in the air.
There were some "gentleman's agreements" way back in the BF2 days where pilots would agree to not kill each other so they could just whore points by killing everything on the ground with impunity. That kind of breaks the game and as much fun as those days were, I don't miss that.[/QUOTE]
Agreements to not kill each other are somewhat silly. Though I can't say I've had too many issues in BF2 and 3 with being a sitting duck the few times I've bothered to fly. As long as you're aware of the enemy pilots, and at least one other pilot on your team is flying something AA capable, you should be okay. You'll just need to fly a bit more defensively.
My main issue with dogfighting pilots is when that is ALL they do. It's not super hard to break out of a fight for a quick pass over some enemies or whatever and get back into defensive flight. Well, as long as the pilot trying to take you down isn't a Jet only Colonel 100 or whatever. You were fucked from the start there.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50193254]Agreements to not kill each other are somewhat silly. Though I can't say I've had too many issues in BF2 and 3 with being a sitting duck the few times I've bothered to fly. As long as you're aware of the enemy pilots, and at least one other pilot on your team is flying something AA capable, you should be okay. You'll just need to fly a bit more defensively.
[B]My main issue with dogfighting pilots is when that is ALL they do[/B]. It's not super hard to break out of a fight for a quick pass over some enemies or whatever and get back into defensive flight. Well, as long as the pilot trying to take you down isn't a Jet only Colonel 100 or whatever. You were fucked from the start there.[/QUOTE]
When there's a competent pilot on the enemy team, you don't really have a choice but to make sure to engage and kill him ASAP. If you break from the fight for a second, you are giving your opponent a shot and putting yourself in an extremely bad position if he doesn't kill you in one burst. You will almost always get shot down. The ideal situation is that you happen to catch the enemy jet off guard while he's mid strafe or something, take him down with a burst, and avoid a dogfight altogether. Sometimes a dogfight is just going to happen though, and the best you can do is try to end it as fast as possible.
If there's a big difference in skill, this is pretty much a non-issue and one fighter will ensure air superiority for their team.
The problem is that when there's two good pilots on opposing teams, what's going to happen is they're going to spend all game dogfighting each other because to stop dogfighting would mean losing your team's jet and giving the opposing jet free reign over killing your team's vehicles. That's much worse than the alternative of both jets just not affecting the ground war at all. It's the lesser of two evils.
I think the root of this prisoner's dilemma like problem is that there's only 1 or 2 jets per side. I actually wrote a huge ass comment about this [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mtsjuVJDH4&lc=z13vdjzwppysfp0in04cdjyijti4i1mhfjs]on that Battlenonsense video about air units[/url]. While I loved a lot of his ideas, he didn't really address these problems.
[editline]24th April 2016[/editline]
Edited the shit out of this because I started rambling about different, but related problems I have with Battlefield air combat.
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;50192712]I don't rely on radar at all. I have FOV set to max and use 3rd person to check where the enemy jet's wingtip vortices are. Using ECM to trick the enemy only works on a very narrow set of people that are smart enough to check the radar but dumb enough to use it as a crutch.[/QUOTE]
Do you use a controller or a mouse? I find these dogfights has me throwing my mouse around like a mad man, but whenever I get a controller, I lose so much accuracy for ground targets it's insane.
[QUOTE=Feuver;50193852]Do you use a controller or a mouse? I find these dogfights has me throwing my mouse around like a mad man, but whenever I get a controller, I lose so much accuracy for ground targets it's insane.[/QUOTE]
Bind something like spacebar to pitch up that way can sustain a turn easily and then let go and use the mouse to fine tune your aim.
[QUOTE=Why485;50193962]Bind something like spacebar to pitch up that way can sustain a turn easily and then let go and use the mouse to fine tune your aim.[/QUOTE]
im ashamed to say that it took me almost 3 years to figure this out :suicide:
[QUOTE=Why485;50193962]Bind something like spacebar to pitch up that way can sustain a turn easily and then let go and use the mouse to fine tune your aim.[/QUOTE]
Oh... Oh FUCK. WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS.
[QUOTE=Holt!;50192081]This is exactly what it was like in Planetside 2, who can turn the tighter circle[/QUOTE]
Honestly, it's less about who can turn the tighter circle, and more who can aim better while doing a loop while flying backwards and avoiding hitting obstacles.
Seriously, the flight mechanics in planetside 2 are absurd, even if it makes for an interesting air game.
I mean, look at [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J56LjnVyYRQ"]this[/URL] shit.
The fighters in planetside 2 are like a crazy mix of jet and helicopter, the manuevers one can pull in that game are crazy.
[QUOTE=ForgotPassword;50193537][media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-wFI9vTqto[/media][/QUOTE]
I knew some cheeky fuck would post that, hah.
One thing I always felt was epic in BF2 was having jets fly over chasing each other and shooting.
I liked the VTOL's in Crysis MP.
[QUOTE=Kidd;50195710]One thing I always felt was epic in BF2 was having jets fly over chasing each other and shooting.[/QUOTE]
I think it's still the case, not to mention the sound design has VASTLY improved since then.
Too bad they didn't keep these changes from CTE.
[video=youtube;jmbZW4oH-6w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmbZW4oH-6w[/video]
I feel like they got many things wrong in 4 that were once great 3, and its not really anything I can put in words either its just that 4 doesn't feel that satisfying to me.
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