[QUOTE=ionuttzu;27457217]If the bus wanted to kill them then the driver would've plowed through them. Would've went "Fuck yeah got 4 of em'", then would continue driving away, not stop. Later he ran away because the other protesters would've surrounded the bus, get him out and kill him[/QUOTE]
OK, so let me get this straight, if he would have continued driving or if he had killed someone it is a tragedy but otherwise it's something to laugh at?
He stopped because a Guardia Nacional got into the bus with his gun out ( THERE WERE POLICE OFFICERS THERE IT WASN'T ILLEGAL ). The driver is just another thug or malandro as we call them here, and we have those by the thousands.
[QUOTE=Chirno;27457216]Big fucking deal, people lose their houses all the fucking time to stupid shit. I don't see them running into streets getting run over and call it "protesting". What the fuck could they possible be protesting in the middle of a highway with a bunch of mattresses?
":hurr: we lost our houses lets protest the government they might care about us because we're in the street even though they didnt care about us before" Great fucking logic there.[/QUOTE]
God I now know why half of Facepunch has you blocked.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;27457298]
[quote]Big fucking deal, people lose their houses all the fucking time to stupid shit. I don't see them running into streets getting run over and call it "protesting". What the fuck could they possible be protesting in the middle of a highway with a bunch of mattresses?
" we lost our houses lets protest the government they might care about us because we're in the street even though they didnt care about us before" Great fucking logic there.[/quote]
God I now know why half of Facepunch has you blocked.[/QUOTE]
oh damn, you two posting in the same thread
I don't see how is your point valid. The only one valid source we have in this thread is this video. You are just trying to tell us that bus driver was satan's son and tried to run over everyone because he loves government and hates poor people. Then you want to tell us that protesting by blocking a goddamn [b]highway[/b] is all right and it's all drivers fault.
As we can see at 0:05, these peaceful protestants tried to get into the car with "government loyalist horrible waaah waah" driver inside that actually stopped and probably had no idea what was going on.
have some mercy
[QUOTE=Nexosz;27457488]oh damn, you two posting in the same thread
I don't see how is your point valid. The only one valid source we have in this thread is this video. You are just trying to tell us that bus driver was satan's son and tried to run over everyone because he loves government and hates poor people. Then you want to tell us that protesting by blocking a goddamn [b]highway[/b] is all right and it's all drivers fault.
As we can see at 0:05, these peaceful protestants tried to get into the car with "government loyalist horrible waaah waah" driver inside that actually stopped and probably had no idea what was going on.
have some mercy[/QUOTE]
Almost all protests in Venezuela are done in public roads, highways, and such. There have been million man protests on roads, like those that happened on April 11th, 2001.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QyEcn0oAvZo/S8Jp0YDeB1I/AAAAAAAABxg/4BRfhee7V_c/s400/11+de+abril+2002_1.jpg[/img]
The bus driver IS a thug, he didn't stop when he saw over 50 people blocking one side of the road, who were supervised by police officers. He did not attempt to swerve, he did not even use his horn at them, he ran them over causing 5 people to have extensive wounds they will probably will never recover from because they can't afford private medicine, which is the only branch of medicine worthwhile here.
It is also illegal to drive a bus on an interstate highway here.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;27457657]Almost all protests in Venezuela are done in public roads, highways, and such. There have been million man protests on roads, like those that happened on April 11th, 2001.
[img_thumb]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QyEcn0oAvZo/S8Jp0YDeB1I/AAAAAAAABxg/4BRfhee7V_c/s400/11+de+abril+2002_1.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]You're so bad at trying to make the bus driver seem like some demon and the protesters absolved of accountability it's making my brain hurt.
That picture is a horrible fucking comparison. Sure, if a million people were to crowd roads no cars would be able to enter and there would ultimately be no accidents. But, when there's a group of 4-7, street scumbags jumping in front of cars, what the fuck do you expect? Just because no cars entered the occupied roads filled with millions of people does not mean the bus driver is a demon for running over 4-7 people jumping in front of the road occupied by cars.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27457896]4-7 people jumping in front of the road.[/QUOTE]
50. Give or take 5 who were cops.
I just don't see what's so difficult about not hitting people on a highway with 3 fucking lanes, considering that he wasn't meant to be there, he was supposed to stop.
They weren't running TOWARDS the bus, nobody did, the guy ran them over.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYsphNt8HA&feature=related[/media]
You can see the bus wasn't moving that fast, the driver sped up into a crowd of people what a dick.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27458215][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYsphNt8HA&feature=related[/media]
You can see the bus wasn't moving that fast, the driver sped up into a crowd of people what a dick.[/QUOTE]
The video cuts to the bus part, the speed of the traffic initially may not be the same as the bus. Regardless, you can see how they violently attack the first car in the sides as it tries to speed off. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to the same with the bus but got caught under
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27458300]The video cuts to the bus part, the speed of the traffic initially may not be the same as the bus. Regardless, you can see how they violently attack the first car in the sides as it tries to speed off. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to the same with the bus but got caught under[/QUOTE]
The bus began speeding on canal that had the most people, while the left one had no one blocking it except two cars who stopped to watch. The bus had MORE than enough time to stop, it wasn't going that fast, you can see that on the first few seconds, and considering the amount of cars that actually stopped in front of the roadblock, it would have been very damn easy to tell that there were a whole bunch of people there from afar.
[QUOTE=Chirno;27457216]Big fucking deal, people lose their houses all the fucking time to stupid shit. I don't see them running into streets getting run over and call it "protesting". What the fuck could they possible be protesting in the middle of a highway with a bunch of mattresses?
":hurr: we lost our houses lets protest the government they might care about us because we're in the street even though they didnt care about us before" Great fucking logic there.[/QUOTE]
Not saying that I support the protesters. But you have to admit, living in that type of environment is dreadful, and I can see the reason they would protest.
To bad it wasn't WBC. :saddowns:
[QUOTE=miscreanity;27455186]Hmm... protest with consent... not much of a protest then, eh?
Ah, Venezuela. Hooray for dictatorships and stupid people![/QUOTE]
They can't legally refuse you because that'd be a violation of the First Amendment. If they did deny you the right to protest you can sue them and take it to a higher power.
I mean, The Westboro Baptist Church keeps protesting at soldier's funerals and all kinds of crazy shit, the town can't refuse to let them. But they want to know, especially because of what kind of protest so the police can be there to keep people from screwing with them. It happens all the time. The last thing anyone wants is a riot because two parties disagree with one another and started a fist fight.
[editline]16th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;27458468]The bus began speeding on canal that had the most people, while the left one had no one blocking it except two cars who stopped to watch. The bus had MORE than enough time to stop, it wasn't going that fast, you can see that on the first few seconds, and considering the amount of cars that actually stopped in front of the roadblock, it would have been very damn easy to tell that there were a whole bunch of people there from afar.[/QUOTE]
There is no way you can determine any of that from that short, cut-up and shaky handy cam video. The camera never sees the bus coming and they never once point toward the incoming traffic. It's not there, you can't assume and use that as evidence.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;27456802]I'm Venezuelan, and you people are fucking retarded, and honestly, disgust me.
They were trying to close a highway because that's the only way our corrupt communist government will fucking notice this people, regular picketing and protesting won't do crap against a government that doesn't recognize half of the people that live there and that continously jumps towards totalitarism.
These people were protesting because they were left entirely homeless ( They had houses up hill next to the road they're protesting on that's why they're there ) after the rain season destroyed their houses. They were one of the many communities that have yet to receive government aid, given that our government is way busier finding ways on how to hide their fucking multi million dollar salaries on bank accounts abroad.
True, they could have asked the nearby Alcaldia for permission, but considering that 80% of all government officials are paid off by Chavez it's more than likely that any permission would have been denied. The bus ran them over because the bus driver was a Chavista, and thought these homeless people were Oppositionists, so he wanted to kill them all.
So is the life on Caracas.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like your people are living life in the fast lane.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27458300]The video cuts to the bus part, the speed of the traffic initially may not be the same as the bus. Regardless, you can see how they violently attack the first car in the sides as it tries to speed off. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to the same with the bus but got caught under[/QUOTE]
You can see the side of the bus as you see the car.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfZtJo3CDFg[/media]
[editline]16th January 2011[/editline]
not entirely the same situation (I don't think the kids are protesting in the video I posted), but it reminded me of it
How hard is it to stay the fuck out of the road.
[QUOTE=~OMEN~;27463870]How hard is it to stay the fuck out of the road.[/QUOTE]
I think the point is that they are deliberately in the road to cause a disturbance.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;27456802]I'm Venezuelan, and you people are fucking retarded, and honestly, disgust me.
They were trying to close a highway because that's the only way our corrupt communist government will fucking notice this people, regular picketing and protesting won't do crap against a government that doesn't recognize half of the people that live there and that continously jumps towards totalitarism.
These people were protesting because they were left entirely homeless ( They had houses up hill next to the road they're protesting on that's why they're there ) after the rain season destroyed their houses. They were one of the many communities that have yet to receive government aid, given that our government is way busier finding ways on how to hide their fucking multi million dollar salaries on bank accounts abroad.
True, they could have asked the nearby Alcaldia for permission, but considering that 80% of all government officials are paid off by Chavez it's more than likely that any permission would have been denied. The bus ran them over because the bus driver was a Chavista, and thought these homeless people were Oppositionists, so he wanted to kill them all.
So is the life on Caracas.[/QUOTE]
#1 Are you actually living [b]in[/b] Venezuela? Why are you still there, perpetuating that government?
#2 Protesting government is pissing in the wind. You will be ignored. When it comes to the media, you'll be censored or ridiculed.
#3 The only way to voice your disapproval is by leaving. Get out. Stop conforming, contributing to and supporting the gov't. Stop looking for government to fix your problems. Grow a pair and take some personal responsibility.
People are like battered wives with their governments. They keep getting abused and yet they stay. Incredibly, as things get worse, they look to gov't even more to make things right. The same things that gov't [b]caused[/b] in the first place! Government [b][u]is[/u][/b] the problem!
Who's the retarded one? Someone who stays and keeps begging the abusive gov't to change its ways or the one who leaves and goes where the situation is better?
People are foolishly short-sighted and governments are desert wastelands.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7ehccspao[/media]
I rest my case.
[editline]16th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;27459443]They can't legally refuse you because that'd be a violation of the First Amendment. If they did deny you the right to protest you can sue them and take it to a higher power.
I mean, The Westboro Baptist Church keeps protesting at soldier's funerals and all kinds of crazy shit, the town can't refuse to let them. But they want to know, especially because of what kind of protest so the police can be there to keep people from screwing with them. It happens all the time. The last thing anyone wants is a riot because two parties disagree with one another and started a fist fight.[/QUOTE]
Not disputing the technical legality of the issue, but how well has that been working for America lately? It seems that there aren't any real consequences of a protest and as such, marginal impact if any. Riling people up a bit over emotional issues is almost always counter-productive outside of power struggles.
[QUOTE=miscreanity;27464365]#1 Are you actually living [b]in[/b] Venezuela? Why are you still there, perpetuating that government?.[/QUOTE]
I am actually living in Caracas, Venezuela, this happened on the highway between Caracas and Guarenas, a city on Miranda, another state. I live here, I read the news from here, I protest here.
I can't leave because I don't have the money to do so, simple as that. Like me there are other couple millions of Venezuelans in that exact same situation.
[QUOTE=miscreanity;27464365]#2 Protesting government is pissing in the wind. You will be ignored. When it comes to the media, you'll be censored or ridiculed.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, sure, that's how we ALMOST took down Chavez on 11 de Abril. That's how us, the students, allowed our universities to not be shut down in favor of communist/Chavez ideological schools. It's the only weapon we've got, to make a bit of noise so hopefully we're heard outside our country and somebody does something.
Because I ain't standing still while my fucking country is being ravaged by Chavez.
[QUOTE=miscreanity;27464365]#3 The only way to voice your disapproval is by leaving. Get out. Stop conforming, contributing to and supporting the gov't. Stop looking for government to fix your problems. Grow a pair and take some personal responsibility.
People are like battered wives with their governments. They keep getting abused and yet they stay. Incredibly, as things get worse, they look to gov't even more to make things right. The same things that gov't [b]caused[/b] in the first place! Government [b][u]is[/u][/b] the problem!
Who's the retarded one? Someone who stays and keeps begging the abusive gov't to change its ways or the one who leaves and goes where the situation is better?
People are foolishly short-sighted and governments are desert wastelands.[/QUOTE]
Good god damn, you are one dense motherfucker.
Conforming? I ain't conforming, this is where I was born, this is where I am, I only have a few childhood memories of the time where the country wasn't turned to literal shit, with the dollar at 4500 bolivares and Caracas being more dangerous than Somalia ( Look it up ).
Do you honestly think that I haven't looked up for ways to get out of this place? I don't think you realize, but we're a poorer Mexico, only that we're a couple million nautical miles from the border. I can't move South because it's equally shitty and they don't want to take Venezuelans, I can't move up North, because that's even worse, and I can't move anywhere else because I can't afford it.
Do you honestly not realize just how deep the rabbithole goes? I can't leave, all I can do is try to make my own personal shithole a slightly better personal shithole. We have accomplished some change, we have stopped several totalitaristic measures that Chavez was gonna take just by protesting hard enough. Chavez is gonna be out soon, but until he is, we just gotta press harder 'til Venezuelans some day regain the country that was stolen from them.
I ain't begging shit. I'm demanding for Chavez to get out, been doing that since 1999. It's easy for you to say shit about how I'm doing absolutely nothing for my country in your big fucking comfy chair in a country where petrol ain't cheaper than water and where your right to vote is respected. You have absolutely no idea of the situation I'm living in, you have absolutely no clue about the general panorama Venezuela is in, nor you ever will because you shall never live something similar, you're just a social darwinist antisocial pseudo anarchist tool who thinks they can fix a country like a computer.
[QUOTE=thisispain;27451122]lol protesting isn't a reason to run someone over
idiots[/QUOTE]
No, but blocking the road is.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;27466143]I protest here.[/QUOTE]
Ha, this makes your replies a fuck ton more funny, to me...
Surprised by the amount of ignorance in this thread about the Venezuelan government and the situation inside the country. The reason they protest there is because if they do anywhere else, no one will see their point because it'll be shut down immediately.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;27466143]I am actually living in Caracas, Venezuela, this happened on the highway between Caracas and Guarenas, a city on Miranda, another state. I live here, I read the news from here, I protest here.
I can't leave because I don't have the money to do so, simple as that. Like me there are other couple millions of Venezuelans in that exact same situation.
Yeah, sure, that's how we ALMOST took down Chavez on 11 de Abril. That's how us, the students, allowed our universities to not be shut down in favor of communist/Chavez ideological schools. It's the only weapon we've got, to make a bit of noise so hopefully we're heard outside our country and somebody does something.
Because I ain't standing still while my fucking country is being ravaged by Chavez.
Good god damn, you are one dense motherfucker.
Conforming? I ain't conforming, this is where I was born, this is where I am, I only have a few childhood memories of the time where the country wasn't turned to literal shit, with the dollar at 4500 bolivares and Caracas being more dangerous than Somalia ( Look it up ).
Do you honestly think that I haven't looked up for ways to get out of this place? I don't think you realize, but we're a poorer Mexico, only that we're a couple million nautical miles from the border. I can't move South because it's equally shitty and they don't want to take Venezuelans, I can't move up North, because that's even worse, and I can't move anywhere else because I can't afford it.
Do you honestly not realize just how deep the rabbithole goes? I can't leave, all I can do is try to make my own personal shithole a slightly better personal shithole. We have accomplished some change, we have stopped several totalitaristic measures that Chavez was gonna take just by protesting hard enough. Chavez is gonna be out soon, but until he is, we just gotta press harder 'til Venezuelans some day regain the country that was stolen from them.
I ain't begging shit. I'm demanding for Chavez to get out, been doing that since 1999. It's easy for you to say shit about how I'm doing absolutely nothing for my country in your big fucking comfy chair in a country where petrol ain't cheaper than water and where your right to vote is respected. You have absolutely no idea of the situation I'm living in, you have absolutely no clue about the general panorama Venezuela is in, nor you ever will because you shall never live something similar, you're just a social darwinist antisocial pseudo anarchist tool who thinks they can fix a country like a computer.[/QUOTE]
You want to start off with an attitude, I'll flip it right back. If you'd like to correct potentially flawed assumptions made in jest without being an ass, lay it out. Just a suggestion: money is not something you want to get me started on.
I've observed a few things so far about you: you obviously have internet access and a device to make use of it, even though the situation is so terrible there and you're so poor; you're intelligent and reasonably well-educated; you grasp the situation of your country. Now, unless you're crippled somehow, you also have a working pair of legs. With some research and a good amount of effort, you can figure out how to make your own way out of Venezuela. So far, I'm only hearing excuses with no solid plan - just a vague notion that continued protesting is the road to freedom.
Even the most charismatic leader will need to bust his ass to survive if there's no support structure. Let politicians do their own laundry, bake their own bread and tend to their own injuries. The most effective way to cut a totalitarian power down (or any centralized power) is to starve it by not supporting it through living or working under it. Fighting becomes a war of attrition, and even though the oppressor will always fall eventually, it can take a lifetime of wasted energy. I don't know about you, but I'd rather do something productive with my life than throw it away by trying to outlast a fool in a pissing contest, even if it means risking my life by going on foot. Besides, who knows what might come next?
Fixing a country is a fallacy. It's never fixed, only patched up so that it can hobble along a little further until the next failure. The only way to correct the problem is to let it fail and build something new in its stead. Most populations aren't of a mindset to take responsibility for themselves, so they'll fall back into the lie that government has to take care of them more and more when in reality, gov't [b]is[/b] the problem.
The coup was almost 9 years ago. I sincerely hope any serious future attempts succeed for longer than a few days. Do the Venezuelan people have a plan for what to do after Chavez is out? Establish yet another semi-free democracy? How? Why? I'm not being a jerk, I'm genuinely curious - every government throughout history has a tendency toward self-destruction. The only difference is how quickly they attain it. Why would it be so desirable an outcome, to put another form of abuse in power while cheering its inception?
The natural order is anarchic and man would do well to recognize the fact that a self-correcting system is far superior to central planning, or centralized failure. Anarchy doesn't suggest chaos - there are rules that arise spontaneously. If you don't like a "social darwinist antisocial pseudo anarchist tool" solution, what's yours? A large dose of capitalism with a candy shell of socialism and a sprinkling of communism, masquerading as a democratic republic? Do you like herding cats?
If you don't understand the machinations at the top, you cannot effect real change from the bottom. Why do governments always fail so destructively? Hint: capital flows are how you can find out where the real power lies and then take action to cut off those resources.
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;27467183]Surprised by the amount of ignorance in this thread about the Venezuelan government and the situation inside the country. The reason they protest there is because if they do anywhere else, no one will see their point because it'll be shut down immediately.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a lost cause: protesting accomplishing little, if anything. Just like a child throwing a tantrum, let the government burn itself out. Then come back in to pick up the pieces. People get so caught up in fighting that it takes forever to accomplish anything.
That video wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it'd be.
[QUOTE=miscreanity;27471422]Sounds like a lost cause: protesting accomplishing little, if anything. Just like a child throwing a tantrum, let the government burn itself out. Then come back in to pick up the pieces. People get so caught up in fighting that it takes forever to accomplish anything.[/QUOTE]
Touche, very good counter-argument.
The way I see it, however, no cause is a lost cause, especially with a corrupt government. Kick and scream loud and frequently and eventually progress will be made.
This thread has become far too political. Lets discuss the physics involved in a bus driving into pedestrians at highway speeds.
[QUOTE=JolKally;27459234]To bad it wasn't WBC. :saddowns:[/QUOTE]
That's probably just a matter of time.
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;27475059]This thread has become far too political. Lets discuss the physics involved in a bus driving into pedestrians at highway speeds.[/QUOTE]
Tobad the fucking camera man decided to move the camera away from the impact itself, but looks like they got squeezed pretty good from being rolled over. Some good crush damages probably.
I mistaken Venezuela for vuvuzela.
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;27450574]its like DarkRP.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit didn't expect that as second reply :v:
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