AK47 Open Carry: Stopped by the Cops - General

[QUOTE=TheTalon;35085527]Open Carry or not, an Ak47 on your back is grounds for probable cause, which police need to do anything anyway[/QUOTE] No it's not. Probable cause is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to make an arrest, to conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest, etc. when criminal charges are being considered. There are no criminal charges.

[QUOTE=Coridan;35085579] What kind of world do we live in now? A world of uneducated people, ignorant of the law, who are afraid of everything? It may be strange to see, but what is so fucking terrifying of someone walking down the road with a weapon that is holstered (or slung) correctly?[/QUOTE] We live in a world where people are aware of what crazy people with assault rifles can do in public places.

[QUOTE=Coridan;35085579]Just like how your comment added so much insight on the issue and sparked feelings and emotions in my mind. What kind of world do we live in now? A world of uneducated people, ignorant of the law, who are afraid of everything? It may be strange to see, but what is so fucking terrifying of someone walking down the road with a weapon that is holstered (or slung) correctly?[/QUOTE] Using the whole "because it is legal, makes it right" logic, i should pick up a sign saying "god hates fags" and march around with it and I would be in the clear morally? Sweet. It's an asshole thing to do, just as it is an asshole thing to do by walking around mainstreet with an ak47 because it makes people uncomfortable. Who cares if they are uncomfortable due to "ignorance" you're still being a public menace, and generally an asshole.

[QUOTE=Coridan;35085579]It may be strange to see, but what is so fucking terrifying of someone walking down the road with a weapon that is holstered (or slung) correctly?[/QUOTE] i dunno but usually when i carry something it's because i intend to use it and there aren't many worthy targets to use an ak on in public i don't think so therefore seeing someone with a rifle would make me a little uneasy

This is stupid, of course there's open carry laws, but as the police officer said, he's gotta come out everytime to make sure it's him and that he's carrying properly. The guy's desperate for attention and an idiot

[QUOTE=Coridan;35085624]No it's not. Probable cause is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to make an arrest, to conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest, etc. when criminal charges are being considered. There are no criminal charges.[/QUOTE] Probable Cause is what police need to do anything, when it comes to dealing with people. From traffic stops, to questioning people standing on the side of the street. If there isn't any probable cause (And just about anything can be to be honest) then they can't do anything. It doesn't just pertain to making an arrest, or searching people. It's why if you watch Cops or shit like that, and they want to pull someone over, they might have to tail them a while to get probable cause, or until they find something. Such as something hanging from your rear view mirror, to not stopping FULLY at a stop sign. They still need it Hell, if there's probable cause to pull someone over, for speeding or something, and you want to search the car, they either need to give you permission, or you have to have it to search the car also, and if they find a locked suitcase in the trunk, they can't open it unless given permission from the driver, or they have PC for that also. At least in Nashville. It's a bit different everywhere

[QUOTE=faze;35084994]He's making a point.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't that technically be protesting? And if it is, it would be illegal in his case since he doesn't have a permit as mentioned in the video?

If you like guns, fine. But a lot of people are terrified by them and carrying them openly is very inconsiderate and stupid.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;35085686]Probable Cause is what police need to do anything, when it comes to dealing with people. From traffic stops, to questioning people standing on the side of the street. If there isn't any probable cause (And just about anything can be to be honest) then they can't do anything. It doesn't just pertain to making an arrest, or searching people. It's why if you watch Cops or shit like that, and they want to pull someone over, they might have to tail them a while to get probable cause, or until they find something. Such as something hanging from your rear view mirror, to not stopping FULLY at a stop sign. They still need it Hell, if there's probable cause to pull someone over, for speeding or something, and you want to search the car, they either need to give you permission, or you have to have it to search the car also, and if they find a locked suitcase in the trunk, they can't open it unless given permission from the driver, or they have PC for that also. At least in Nashville. It's a bit different everywhere[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.probablecause.org/whatisprobablecause.html"]http://www.probablecause.org/whatisprobablecause.html[/URL] [quote=Legal Definition]Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime, thereby warranting his or her prosecution, or that a Cause of Action has accrued, justifying a civil lawsuit.[/quote] The requirement of probable cause for a Search and Seizure can be found in the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which states: [quote]the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be searched.[/quote] So, yeah, it's exactly as the definition I gave. [QUOTE=Coridan;35085624]Probable cause is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to make an arrest, to conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest, etc. when criminal charges are being considered.[/QUOTE] Which is why it isn't called "Probable cause". The proper term would be "Probable cause for search and seizure".

[QUOTE=Guy in Video]wear pink clothes and put on a fanny pack[/QUOTE] I hate it when gun rights people say shit like this, because it makes level-headed gun rights activists like Me or my friends get lumped into the same pile of (I'm assuming) bigoted jerks.

Dont worry guys, according to his open carry FAQ you can usually tell the difference between someone legally carrying and someone intent on killing someone.

What a hipster

The guys a fucking idiot. [editline]10th March 2012[/editline] ninjed

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35085811]Dont worry guys, according to his open carry FAQ you can usually tell the difference between someone legally carrying and someone intent on killing someone.[/QUOTE] Well, if it's slung over your back that's pretty clearly not ready to fire, he's still pretty dumb for carrying his rifle outside a case down his road, but you can tell sometimes if a rifle is being held with an intent to kill someone.

I really don't like this guy. The police in this video were merely answering a call as by LAW they have to. The first thing he does, is attack them by accusing them of violating his human rights, leading to a mass debate. If he hadn't have initiated the confrontation, this would have been over in seconds. What an absolute fucking twat.

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;35085838]Well, if it's slung over your back that's pretty clearly not ready to fire, he's still pretty dumb for carrying his rifle outside a case down his road, but you can tell sometimes if a rifle is being held with an intent to kill someone.[/QUOTE] It it literally takes two seconds for the rifle to be ready to fire. Just because someone has it swung over their shoulder doesn't in any way suggest what its purpose might be.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35085827]The guys a fucking idiot. [/QUOTE] Most gun activists that i have encountered actually are idiotic, they all share the same attitude, the "fuck" other people attitude, and the "who cares if i waste the police department's time" morality. I know not all gun-activists act like this, but their reputation is tarnished by people like the guy in the video, and people like fraze.

he's being a total cunt to the police officer who is being totally reasonable

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;35085892]Most gun activists that i have encountered actually are, idiotic they all share the same attitude, the "fuck" other people attitude, and the "who cares if i waste the police department's time" morality. I know not all gun-activists act like this, but their reputation is tarnished by people like the guy in the video, and people like fraze.[/QUOTE] Exactly the point I made in my post above. Most Pro-gun people aren't like this, it's just a vocal minority that makes us all look like assholes, when the majority of us just want to own guns, and that's it.

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;35085838]Well, if it's slung over your back that's pretty clearly not ready to fire, he's still pretty dumb for carrying his rifle outside a case down his road, but you can tell sometimes if a rifle is being held with an intent to kill someone.[/QUOTE] The time it takes to switch from "not wanting to kill someone" to "lets fuck some shit up" is very quick, almost instantaneous . If i was crazy and wanted to go on a shooting spree, i would want to keep a low profile as possible, so i would walk with it slung over my back. But people who are crazy are unpredictable, so i wouldn't be surprised if someone who went on a shooting spree, was seen walking down main-street with their gun holstered minutes before the rampage. The whole point is, people see a guy with a gun in public walking down main-street, they think "oh shit he could start shooting any moment, because he has no real logical reason to be carrying it in this situation" regardless of his stance. If this was a less populated area, with little traffic, and in the woods i would just brush them off as a local coming back or to target practice, or even a hunter, the fact that makes this not okay, is he's just carrying it to carry it in a populated area for no real given logical reason besides to just fuck with people, which can be interpreted as malicious to the common person driving by.

All this arguing aside, I kinda thought here, that what's the point of having an open carry law if it's just going to scare people and makes the person carrying it look like a complete asshole who doesn't care about people around him? Similar to the point of having free speech if people just think you're an asshole for walking around with a sign saying something vulgar. It's not illegal, and it doesn't mean you're not allowed to do it. When people don't agree with what someone is doing it doesn't make it impermissible. It might not make it right, but that's missing the point. In a way, it's not entirely his fault that people have a preconceived notation of what they think someone walking around with a firearm would do, perhaps because of their own ignorance. It's hard for me to say if he lacks empathy here. I think the issue here is people misunderstand the point of living in a country where people can legally do things that others may be uncomfortable with. If this is too big of a problem for most people, then make it illegal. Simple. In Switerzland people do this all the time, but it must be justified. It has to be a direct transport, such as, "for courses or exercises hosted by marksmanship, hunting or military organisations, to an army warehouse and back, to and from a holder of a valid arms trade permit, to and from a specific event, i.e. gun shows." People walk into stores with assault rifles all the time, and people aren't afraid because it's so common. Now obviously there is no justification for this, and yes I do agree there is no point in carrying his AK to his wife's work, and I could see why people would react a certain way towards it. Especially since he's walking with it in a public area without much of a purpose other than to express his right. Given the context of the situation, I'm in the middle of the fence with this one when factoring in both legal and moral aspects.

of course there are plenty of level-headed gun owners. and because they are level-headed you'll never hear from them when it comes to owning guns. [editline]10th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Dark-Energy;35086043]All this arguing aside, I kinda thought here, that what's the point of having an open carry law if it's just going to scare people and makes the person carrying it look like a complete asshole who doesn't care about people around him?[/QUOTE] the idea is that if people openly carry guns they could stop crimes using their weapons.

Open carry is legal here in Virginia. I still wouldn't do it because I don't need to. Also because people around here are complete morons and would probably cause a traffic accident if they saw some guy walking around with a rifle slung over his shoulder. There's nothing wrong in doing it if you're not doing it to be provocative.

[QUOTE=faze;35085359]How is doing something legal disturbing the peace? He's not even touching the gun. It is on a sling around his shoulder. Disturbing the peace is an umbrella term for police to use to arrest someone when they have nothing to arrest them for. He wasn't doing anything illegal, and the police admitted this. [editline]10th March 2012[/editline] In theory, they shouldn't stop you.[/QUOTE] So if you're standing in line at the grocery store and I just step in front of you and put my cart load of things on the belt you won't say anything? You won't feel offended or annoyed that I just took your place in line? It's not illegal, but it's an asshole move.

[QUOTE=faze;35085447]Where open carry is legal, no it shouldn't. If he's not holding the weapon in a threatening manor, he's fine.[/QUOTE] You'd have a point if gun crime didn't exist. Are you honestly asking why people should be worried that someone is walking around with something specifically built to kill other people, for no discernible reason?

[QUOTE=ScoutKing;35085939]The time it takes to switch from "not wanting to kill someone" to "lets fuck some shit up" is very quick, almost instantaneous . If i was crazy and wanted to go on a shooting spree, i would want to keep a low profile as possible, so i would walk with it slung over my back. But people who are crazy are unpredictable, so i wouldn't be surprised if someone who went on a shooting spree, was seen walking down main-street with their gun holstered minutes before the rampage. The whole point is, people see a guy with a gun in public walking down main-street, they think "oh shit he could start shooting any moment, because he has no real logical reason to be carrying it in this situation" regardless of his stance. If this was a less populated area, with little traffic, and in the woods i would just brush them off as a local coming back or to target practice, or even a hunter, the fact that makes this not okay, is he's just carrying it to carry it in a populated area for no real given logical reason besides to just fuck with people, which can be interpreted as malicious to the common person driving by.[/QUOTE] You know, I don't really think much can be done about this. If you make it illegal, some mentally unstable person decides to kill a bunch of people (who wouldn't abide by the law anyway), they wouldn't be intimated by someone openly carrying a weapon because it wouldn't be allowed. Yet if you allow it, it can make people nervous but may prevent a situation by driving the person away or drastically reduce the amount of casualties. Two equally repulsive choices.

If this was a pistol that he was open-carrying faze, I would agree with you 100%. The ONLY reason to carry a gun with you in public is for self defense, you don't need a fucking AK for self defense. This guy is obviously just trying to get attention/making a point that doesn't need to be made.

[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;35086359]If this was a pistol that he was open-carrying faze, I would agree with you 100%. The ONLY reason to carry a gun with you in public is for self defense, you don't need a fucking AK for self defense. This guy is obviously just trying to get attention/making a point that doesn't need to be made.[/QUOTE] Exactly, Open Carry is for protection, not provoking.

[QUOTE=Dark-Energy;35086207]You know, I don't really think much can be done about this. If you make it illegal, some mentally unstable person decides to kill a bunch of people (who wouldn't abide by the law anyway), they wouldn't be intimated by someone openly carrying a weapon because it wouldn't be allowed. Yet if you allow it, it can make people nervous but may prevent a situation by driving the person away or drastically reduce the amount of casualties. Two equally repulsive choices.[/QUOTE] Nothing can be done, that is why it makes people uneasy.

Yes because a totally sane and rational person carries an assault rifle around for their daily jog.