Most of this stuff is in the Bible too, they just ignore it
Holy books don't mean anything to a religion as the ones in charge consistently filter it and feed what they want to the believers.
[QUOTE=Elspin;23812482]No need to flame. The reason I thought it was pro-muslim is things like "This is why other religions can have errors in interpretation and ours can't" along with the fact that religions like islam usually don't see things like this as bad, and will totally straight-faced tell you that all non-x religion should burn in hell.[/QUOTE]
You were so fucking full of yourself I just couldn't resist to say what I think about that.
Seriously man it's like, some guy from BP made a vid showing how bad the spill is and you'd be like "lawl this vid is so bad, the guy is a moron. he wanted to show us that it's not that bad but he shows that it is worse than anyone thought, I didn't watch it past 20 seconds, I'm sick of these idiots at BP trying to cower things up"
Even when someone pointed out that you're missing something you still wouldn't get the point of the vid and go further with your false assumptions.
I'm sorry if you take this as flaming. Your behavior and logic were shit, ticked me off.
[QUOTE=Mexican;23812628]Most of this stuff is in the Bible too, they just ignore it
Holy books don't mean anything to a religion as the ones in charge consistently filter it and feed what they want to the believers.[/QUOTE]
Yeah like this new bible interpretation bullshit.
[QUOTE=Mexican;23812628]Most of this stuff is in the Bible too, they just ignore it
Holy books don't mean anything to a religion as the ones in charge consistently filter it and feed what they want to the believers.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but if the first part is true how earlier verses which contradict later verses are not to be regarded, then all those Muslims who say that while the Qur'an has some violence, it has more peace, are wrong. While in the Bible, even though there are passages promoting peace and passages promoting violence, the violent ones generally aren't regarded as more "important" or "true" than the peaceful ones.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;23812700]You were so fucking full of yourself I just couldn't resist to say what I think about that.
Seriously man it's like, some guy from BP made a vid showing how bad the spill is and you'd be like "lawl this vid is so bad, the guy is a moron. he wanted to show us that it's not that bad but he shows that it is worse than anyone thought, I didn't watch it past 20 seconds, I'm sick of these idiots at BP trying to cower things up"
Even when someone pointed out that you're missing something you still wouldn't get the point of the vid and go further with your false assumptions.
[b]I'm sorry if you take this as flaming.[/b] [highlight]Your behavior and logic were shit, ticked me off.[/highlight][/QUOTE]
So you say sorry if I take this as flaming then go on to tell me my logic is shit? That's both ironic and pretty silly. This is, once again, nothing like that, because as I already said this is pretty typical of religious people.
[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23812332]Well actually...
"First off, Wahhabism is not a sect of Islam,
Fuckin comin up in here actin like you all educated nshit[/QUOTE]
This comment just made me cringe and laugh at the sametime and see the point in not taking anything you say serious nor believe you have any sort of knowledge.
"Wahhabism is the dominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia, It is often referred to as a "sect" or "branch" of Islam, though both its supporters and its opponents ". One simple search or click on the links provided above would come up with thousands of links and on Google scholar too.
[url]http://www.meforum.org/535/saudi-arabia-and-the-rise-of-the-wahhabi-threat[/url]
Ahmad Zayni Dahlan al-Makkiyy, 1304 A.H. Fitnat-ul-Wahhabiyyah: Proofs for tawassul.
[url]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/gulf/wahhabi.htm[/url]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1571144.stm[/url]
I wish you the best of luck in your campaign proving the world Intellectual fields, intelligence agencies and well study in the wrong.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23812426]What about various advancements made by Islamic scholars in schools such as astronomy, mathematics, construction, and others such as the invention of the first guitars (I can't remember if they're counted as the first guitars but if not then the Spaniards copied an Arabic invention with a little improvement to make the first guitar).[/QUOTE]
I would not take one ounce of what he says serious he has no ideal about anything he just clearly shown it the first part of his statement. I am just being stupid and responding myself. You could also mention the perfection and invention of the use of the scientific method as well.
[QUOTE=Elspin;23812923]So you say sorry if I take this as flaming then go on to tell me my logic is shit? That's both ironic and pretty silly. This is, once again, nothing like that, because as I already said this is pretty typical of religious people.[/QUOTE]
If I was flaming you I'd just insult you without any explanation.
And I'm also sorry if you take any criticism as flaming. Maybe I've used too harsh words. Let me rephrase it. Your logic and behavior were not very good.
And I understand there are vids similar to this which try to put Islam in good light or say how right they are for killing infidels but that doesn't change the fact you've completely missed the point of this vid, and then continued with your false assumption, even after watching it to the end. (at that point the purpose should be pretty obvious)
I hope you don't take this as flaming.
My favourite part is how you take in the first sentence and IGNORE EVERYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT.
So Meknes, are you an atheist?
[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23813118]My favourite part is how you take in the first sentence and IGNORE EVERYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT.
[/QUOTE]
It's facepunch. Your 10 paragraph argument is invalid if you've even misspelled something.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;23813111]If I was flaming you I'd just insult you without any explanation.
And I'm also sorry if you take any criticism as flaming. Maybe I've used too harsh words. Let me rephrase it. Your logic and behavior were not very good.
And I understand there are vids similar to this which try to put Islam in good light or say how right they are for killing infidels but that doesn't change the fact you've completely missed the point of this vid, and then continued with your false assumption, even after watching it to the end. (at that point the purpose should be pretty obvious)
I hope you don't take this as flaming.[/QUOTE]
Flaming isn't just without explanation, it's a ridiculous over-reaction coupled with insults common on the internet. I don't understand how you can act so self-righteous and superior when all you're doing is acting like an asshole to someone who's responding to you fairly politely, but then again:
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;23813185]It's facepunch.[/QUOTE]
right?
everyone calm the fuck down jeez
i too look to youtube videos anyone can make without any frame of mind for unbiased information
[QUOTE=Elspin;23813315]Flaming isn't just without explanation, it's a ridiculous over-reaction coupled with insults common on the internet. I don't understand how you can act so self-righteous and superior when all you're doing is acting like an asshole to someone who's responding to you fairly politely, but then again:
[/QUOTE]
Well you did overreact too, to something that doesn't even exist. Just pointed out your mistake without trying to be nice.
Then I tied to be more informative than aggressive but I guess it didn't work. I'm sorry if you feel bad about what I've said. Everything except the first sentence of the first post wasn't meant to be offensive.
[QUOTE=Meknes;23811743]Three things you should know about Islam,
Like Christianity it split into separate branch's and sects that are completely different with their own teaching, believes and understanding
Terrorism follow a specific sect of Islam called Wahhabism which is the state religion of Saudi Arabia. Which believes they are only the path to god and all other Muslims and non-Muslims are infidels. They also against Historical Islamic sites or other religious sites like what happen in Afghanistan.
Islam use to be a center of advance learning, technology, medicine, historical knowledge preservation but since the creation of Wahhabism in 1800s and the Saudi government taking power it all fell. In The 60-80s Western powers used this movement to combat the spread of communism/revolutions in Africa and Middle East, Caucasus, Central Asia. Also to lure the Soviet into their own version of Vietnam.
Now Saudi use their oil wealth to send missionaries around the other Islamic countries. They invest in mosques and government positions to control and prevent opposition, as well as media broadcast. Countries like Morocco are falling to radical Islam. If go to a poorer neighborhood you see women wearing a full Burke which never existed until the last 5-6 years in these area.
I study Islam and specialize in Terrorism.
Here is the links in the subject.
[url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html[/url]
[url]http://atheism.about.com/od/islamicsects/a/wahhabi.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.basicsproject.org/islamist_terrorism/ideology/wahhabism.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html[/url]
[url]http://www.newsweek.com/2001/09/30/the-road-to-september-11.html[/url]
[url]http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a86operationcyclone[/url]
[url]http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,498421,00.html[/url]
[url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/osamabinladen/[/url]
I am not sure what worst people who are ignorant and hate Islam or people who are ignorant and defend Islam and terrorism as freedom fighters. Both sides cause problems in fighting against the true threat of Islamic terrorism and it sources.[/QUOTE]
you and Big Dumb American are probably the only two people on Facepunch certified to have an opinion you can back up about this, I congratulate you for not being completely one-sided
[editline]holy fuck[/editline]
holy fuck I just watched the video, was this supposed to make me think better of islam? they fucked up big time
This video was extremley interesting. I actually want to inform myself now.
This video is just like the video tells us not to act.
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;23814659]This video is just like the video tells us not to act.[/QUOTE]
what the fuck did you just say
Islam is Islamic
You know one religion that isn't as annoying
Buddhists.
[QUOTE=cccritical;23814930]what the fuck did you just say[/QUOTE]
dunno
Fuck off Islam, Mohammed is a dick and your bullshit religious-political views are barbaric. I am going to knock down every Islamic court in Britain if I have to.
[QUOTE=AimlessGiant;23815490]Fuck off Islam, Mohammed is a dick and your bullshit religious-political views are barbaric. I am going to knock down every Islamic court in Britain if I have to.[/QUOTE]
why
[QUOTE=AimlessGiant;23815490]Fuck off Islam, Mohammed is a dick and your bullshit religious-political views are barbaric. I am going to knock down every Islamic court in Britain if I have to.[/QUOTE]
oh you're so insensitive it's just a different culture you have to understand them :words:
there are some great muslims, I'm friends with the ones in Track and Field here and some others that are in classes with me, but ones that are 'devout' are just plain fucking trouble
Huh. I never had a problem with other religions but i draw the line here. Executing gays, hitting women, and stoning whores is just not right. Also the fact that they are against free speech and democracy because it gets in the way of their religion makes me sick. The way of Islam sounds like a series of commands to take over the world.
[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23812332]Well actually...
First off, Wahhabism is not a sect of Islam, and it is not the only group that Islamic Jihadist adhere to. All mainstream sects of Islam both Shia and Sunni embrace and espouse violent Jihad and principles like Taqyyia. The Islamic world was never a "center of advance learning, technology, medicine", it started out as a violent conquering entity, and the information they had was what they cannibalized from the cultures that it conquered and subjugated. Islam has been what it has been since the beginning. All your links are invalid, my sources are the Qu'ran and the Sunnah and notable Muslim exegetes thereof, all of whom agree with the creator of that video on Islam's purpose of Jihad. Some copy/pasta
[release]It is the epic battle of the End Time. It’s not the United States and the War on Terrorism. It’s not the West versus the Middle East. It’s not even Christianity versus Islam. It has come down to good versus evil. Dr. Gregory M. Davis wrote, “Like other religions, Islam sees the universe in terms of good and evil; but unlike other religions, in Islam good and evil have expressly political significance. Islamic theology divides the world into two spheres locked in
perpetual conflict: the House of Islam and the House of War. The House of Islam (dar al-Islam) embraces territory where Islamic law (Sharia) is the law of the land, while the House of War (dar al-harb) comprises the rest of the world. The House of Islam is enjoined by Allah to make war upon the House of War until the latter is permanently assimilated into the former. The term jihad, which literally means ‘struggle,’ denotes the military effort to bring new lands into the
House of Islam. While the state of war between the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds is sometimes hot and sometimes cold, it is permanent until Sharia law reigns over the entire planet.” [1]
The House of Peace vs. the House of War
Moslems call their religion the “House of Peace.” However, Islam is any thing but peaceful. True Moslems believe that if you do not belong to the “House of Peace” then you belong to the “House of War.” They believe that peace will not come to the world until Islam prevails. Thus peace is a result of war against the unbelievers. Very few Christians know that there are over 100 verses in the Quran calling Moslems to wage jihad against unbelievers.
Muhammad commanded his Jihadis (holy warriors) “…to slay the unbelievers wherever you find them” [2] and “Therefore, when you meet the unbelievers in fight, smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them.”[3] Muhammad taught that his believers that those
who reject Islam are the “vilest of creatures” and deserve no mercy.[4] Davis also wrote, “Of the major world conflicts of the last fifteen or so years, it would be easier to list those that do not involve Islam. In contrast, the wars in the Sudan, the Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Chechnya, Algeria, Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor, the Spice Islands, the Philippines, Somalia, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Kashmir, and Thailand, all include a self-identified Moslem fighting force. And that list does not include the major acts of international terrorism, the overwhelming preponderance of which are committed by Moslems in the name of their religion. Of the forty foreign terrorist organizations named by the U.S. State Department, six of them are Communist, six nationalist, one Jewish, and fully twenty-seven of them Islamic.”[5]
The Six Pillars of Islam
Muhammad introduced the “five pillars” of Islam that are the basis of its practice: recital of the original formula of belief (shahada), praying five times per day (salat), fasting during Ramadan (sayam), giving alms to the poor (zakat), and the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj).[6] The sixth pillar was added later on when Muhammad resided in Medina.[7] Many uninformed Christians and secularists believe that jihad means a “personal struggle;” an inner battle with oneself. They want to deny that jihad means a global warfare against Christians and other non-Islamic religions. They want to believe that bad Moslems have hijacked a peaceful religion and have perverted the true meaning of jihad. Many people want to participate in “magical thinking” and pretend that Islam is not a threat to world peace. Therefore it’s time to take our heads and out of the sand and see Islam for what it really is. If you want to know what Muhammad really meant by jihad, read the Quran, study the history of Islamic imperialism, and read what the Moslems wrote about Muhammad and his successors.
My Struggle
Shi’a Moslems teach that there are two categories of Jihad. The lesser jihad is the declaration of holy war against the infidels (non-Moslems or apostate Moslems) and the greater jihad is the struggle to obey Allah and to live a holy life. Moderate Moslems claim that the greater jihad really means “my struggle,” but so did Adolf Hitler’s book Mein Kampf. Is it any wonder that Hitler’s Mein Kampf has become a best seller in Middle Eastern bookstores? Its emboldened title has been translated as “Jihadi,” as in “My Jihad,” confirming in an ironic fashion the “moderate” Islamic claim that jihad only means “struggle,” as in an “inner struggle.”[8] When Israeli forces overran Yasser Arafat's bases in southern Lebanon in 1982, they found many copies of Mein Kampf, in Arabic, among the PLO terrorists' belongings. Even today, Lebanon’s terrorist militia, Hezbollah marches by goose-stepping and stiff-armed saluting their commanders reminiscent of Hitler’s Storm Troopers. Evil lives on. As in J.R.R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings, evil never really dies nor goes away. It goes into hiding, and feeds until it gets stronger. And it always resurfaces.
Muhammad: the Warrior-Prophet
Muhammad was not a man of peace, but a man of war. He was a warrior, a raider, a terrorist, and a murderer. His life story is interesting. He was born in pagan Mecca (Saudi Arabia) in 570 AD. He was orphaned as a child and his uncle took him in so he would not starve; he was poor and illiterate. At the age of 25, he married a wealthy widow, 15 years older than him. When he was 40, he started his own religion. He devoted his worship to Allah, who was already recognized by the Meccans as the father of the lesser gods. Muhammad began preaching a monotheistic message commanding the Meccans to abandon their idolatrous ways and turn to worship the true god, Allah and he declared himself as Allah’s prophet. He tried his best to convert his fellow tribesmen and countrymen. His own tribe, the Quraysh rejected his message. The Quraysh were his harshest critics. They accused Muhammad of borrowing from Judaism, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism (the main religion of the Persian Empire), rather than receiving divine revelations from Allah. The Quraysh ridiculed and persecuted the Moslems. Eventually, Muhammad sent his followers to the safety of Medina, where a small band of his Moslem believers pledged their undying loyalty to him. The Meccans plotted to kill Muhammad so he fled to Medina as well. They even pursued Muhammad a short distance across the desert until he reached the safety of Medina.
Fleeing Mecca to save his life set the course of Muhammad’s actions for the remainder of his years. Muhammad established a religious-political kingdom in Medina and declared jihad (war) against whoever rejected him or his message. He convinced his followers that if they died fighting in jihad, they would be absolved of any sins and immediately admitted into Paradise and experience the wonderful, carnal pleasures of beautiful virgins, young boys, great wealth, sumptuous fruit, clear water and wine. In fact, dying in jihad was the only assurance that a Moslem would enter Paradise. Islam grew under Jihad because Muhammad, under the threat of the sword, forced the unbelieving captives and prisoners to convert to Islam or be executed on the battlefields. Muhammad started by declaring jihad on his enemies, the Meccans. In less than 23 years he conquered and ruled all of Arabia and died without a single enemy left alive. It’s important to recognize that Muhammad preached his religion in Mecca for 13 years and only gained 150 followers. However, he became a total success when he turned to politics and war. In ten-years time he became the first ruler of Arabia by averaging an event of violence every seven weeks for nine years. Muhammad instructed his holy warriors to engage in some 84 battles and he was present for 27 of them. He personally fought in nine battles (in one he had a tooth knocked out). Politics is the real power of Islam. Muhammad’s success did not come as a religious leader, but as a political leader. [9]
Jihad against the Meccans
After the immigration to Medina, Islam became violent when persuasion failed. Ancient Arabia was full of Christians, Jews, and pagans who worshipped many gods and idols. Preaching a message of peace did not work for Muhammad. Thus he introduced jihad to the world. While living in Medina, Muhammad and his impoverished followers worked menial jobs, such as basket weaving, caring for goats and camels, and drawing water from wells. One day, Muhammad received a revelation from Allah to declare war on the pagan Meccans. Allah allowed the Moslems to raid the Meccans’ caravans and they were instructed to keep the wealth. Allah told Muhammad to keep one-fifth for himself. It was during these raids that Islam’s institution of slavery began. Muhammad taught his Jihadis that war captives who did not convert to Islam were to become their slaves. Thus Muhammad created a class of warriors who believed that they should be served. Even today, Moslem-Arabs believe that manual labor is beneath them and it is reserved for slaves. Muhammad institutionalized slavery into Islam and made it an earthly reward to the warriors who engage in jihad. The Hadiths (oral traditions about Muhammad’s life later recorded and accepted as sacred writings) record that Muhammad and his band of followers accumulated their wealth by raiding Meccan merchants and caravans that crossed the desert. Muhammad had a new revelation from Allah who commanded his Jihadis to “smite the necks” of the unbelievers.[10]
Muhammad did not show mercy to his captives even though many were his former countrymen. Muhammad had them mutilated and decapitated. The Hadiths report that Muhammad cruelly taunted his prisoners and mocked their terror before they were beheaded. Cutting off the heads of the unbelievers is still happening throughout the Moslem world today. Beheadings occur in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen, Iran, and Afghanistan. More recently jihadi beheadings have also occurred in Algeria, Nigeria, Kashmir, Chechnya and the Moslem dominated southern Philippines. Why do Allah’s warriors continue using the ancient, barbaric practice of beheading unbelievers by swords, knives, or axes instead of merely shooting them? Because the Jihadis are true Moslems, and true Moslems follow the Prophet Muhammad’s example. Islam teaches that Muhammad is al-insan al kamil (the ideal man).[11] Muhammad’s life set the standard for Islam’s code of conduct. After eight years, Muhammad took a large army of 10,000 followers and conquered Mecca. He forced the Meccans to accept him and convert to Islam or die by the sword. They had to publicly acknowledge that there was no other god but Allah and Muhammad was his prophet. After he triumphantly entered Mecca he stopped to pray and then commanded his Moslem warriors destroy all of the religious art within the city. Afterwards he ordered the beheadings of every single intellectual and artist in Mecca who had opposed Islam. Muhammad killed all his critics; and by the time of his death, there was not a single opponent left who spoke out against Islam.
In the grand totality of Islam, only six percent of the references to Hell in the Quran are for immorality such as theft, lies, murder and greed; while ninety-four percent of the references to Hell are for the intellectual sin of disagreeing with Muhammad. In the hierarchy of Islam, disagreeing with Muhammad is a worse sin than murder. When an intellectual or artist spoke against Islam, Muhammad sent an assassin to kill the offender. [12] One poet who spoke out against Muhammad was Asma bint Marwan, a woman with five sons. She was murdered at night inside her tent while breastfeeding her infant. Another was an elderly Jew named Abu 'Afak. He was assassinated because he opposed Muhammad and refused to convert to Islam. This is where the Islamic tradition of anti-intellectual and antiartist fatwas (death warrants) arose. [13] Muhammad ordered the deaths of atleast 27 people. Fatwas calling for the deaths of artists and writers who criticize Islam are still occurring in this modern age. For example, Moslems all over the world called for the deaths of cartoonists and the publishers of the allegedly, sacrilegious cartoons of Muhammad in a Danish newspaper. In 1988, Ayatollah Khomeini, the supreme religious leader in Iran, issued a death warrant for the writer, Salmon Rushdie, because he wrote the book, The Satanic Verses. On November 2, 2004, Theo Van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker (and the grandson of the brother of the famous Vincent Van Gogh) was shot on the streets of Amsterdam, because he made a movie entitled Submission about the maltreatment of Moslem women. His killer slit his throat and nearly decapitated him and implanted two daggers in his torso pinning a five-paged note to his chest. A fatwa was issued for Submission’s writer, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born, ex-Moslem and Dutch politician and author of Infidel, a book about her life story of growing up in Islamic Somalia. Ali went into hiding for several weeks and is now under the
protection of bodyguards.
Jihad against the Jews
Most Moslems know about Muhammad's political and theological domination of the Jews of Arabia. The Jewish tribes went from being honored by Muhammad to being enslaved, exiled and executed. While preaching in Mecca, Muhammad referred to Jews and Christians as “people of the book.” Muhammad accepted all of the Jewish prophets of the Torah, including Adam, Moses, and even John the Baptist and Jesus. They adopted the kosher diet and avoidance of pork. Muhammad initially had his Moslems bowing towards Jerusalem for their daily prayers. The Moslems even observed the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur as a day of fasting known as Ashura. Later Muhammad mandated his Moslems to face Mecca when they prayed and the holy month of Ramadan replaced Ashura. Muhammad became virulently anti-Jewish when the wealthy and prosperous Jews of Medina rejected him as a Prophet and refused to convert to Islam. In 624 AD., Muhammad exiled the Jewish tribe of Banu Qaynuqa. Originally Muhammad wanted to kill them, but one of the Medina tribal leaders begged him to spare their lives so he expelled them from the Arabian Peninsula. Muhammad divided up their wealth, goods, tools, weapons among his warriors. He kept a one-fifth of the spoils for himself.
In 625, Muhammad expelled the Jewish tribe of Banu Nadir after they surrendered all of their property and possessions. Once again, Muhammad divided the wealth among his companions, but kept one-fifth for himself. Later, the Moslems battled the Banu Nadir in 629, at the Battle of Khaybar. The Moslems killed all of the men of Banu Nadir and divided the women among themselves. Muhammad ordered the tribe’s treasurer to be tortured until he revealed where he hid part of the tribe’s wealth. Afterwards, he was beheaded. Muhammad took a beautiful, recently widowed Jewess (her husband was killed in battle by the Moslems) and daughter of the slain Jewish tribal chieftain as one of his many wives.14 In the historical Moslem tradition, female war captives were raped on the battlefields and sold as sex slaves and imprisoned in harems. Muhammad was behind the massacre of another Jewish tribe, the Banu Qurayza. After the Battle of Trench, in 627 AD, Muhammad accused the tribe of befriending his enemies in Mecca. After the successful besiegment of their city that lasted several weeks, Muhammad approved the beheading of some 600-900 individuals who surrendered unconditionally. The spoils of battle, including the enslaved women and children of the tribe, were divided up among Muhammad's followers, and once again, Muhammad took one-fifth. As part of his share of the booty, Muhammad took one of the Jewish women as a concubine. The Hadiths reveal that Muhammad told his Moslems to “Kill any Jew who falls into your power.”[15]
Jihad against the Christians
In the beginning of Muhammad’s ministry, he favorably looked at Christians as brothers to Moslems. After Muhammad crushed both the Arab polytheists and the Jews, he turned his attention to making the Christians submit to Islam. His last jihad was against the Christians in Syria. Very few people know that that the first military clash between Moslems and Christians occurred at the Battle of Mut’ah in 629 AD. This battle was instigated by the Moslems after they were dispatched by the prophet Muhammad. The Moslems attacked the Christian Byzantines first.
After Muhammad's death, Islam attacked and destroyed Christianity in Egypt, North Africa, Syria, and Turkey. Two-thirds of what is now marked as Islamic countries was once Christian territory under the protection of the Byzantines.
During the first century of Islam alone over 3,200 churches were destroyed or converted into mosques. During the Moslem invasion of Syria in 634 AD., thousands of Christians were massacred. Between 635 and 643 when the Moslems conquered Mesopotamia, many churches and monasteries were looted, and its ministers and Christians were slain. When the Moslems invaded Egypt in 640 and 641, and conquered the towns of Behnesa, Fayum, Nikiu and Aboit, the Coptic Christians did not even resist, but yet they were slaughtered in their homes, churches, and on the streets. When the Moslems invaded Cyprus, they looted and pillaged homes and churches and decimated much of the population. When the Moslem surged across North Africa, and captured Tripoli in 643, they forced all the Jews and Christians to turn over their wives, daughters, and children as slaves.
They burned Carthage to the ground and slaughtered most of its inhabitants. [16] Very few Christians know that Islam destroyed the Seven Churches of Asia mentioned in Paul’s letters (it’s important to point out that “churches” here refer to the Christian communities and not actual buildings). The New Testament mentions all of the following Christian communities, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Caesarea, Damascus, Antioch, Tarsus, Edessa, Ephesus, Corinth, and Rhodes; all destroyed and sacked by the Jihadis. Turkey’s largest city, Istanbul is actually Constantinople, the capital of the Christian Empire of the Byzantines. On May 29, 1453, the Sultan Mehmed II, “the Conqueror” captured Constantinople after a 53-day siege and he made it the capital of his Ottoman Empire. Jihadis went through the city raping boys, girls, men, and women. The beautiful cathedral of St. Sophia, considered to be the epitome of Byzantine architecture was sacked and pillaged and turned into a mosque.
As late as of 1922, Moslem Turks burned the ancient and historical city of Smyrna to the ground and killed over 150,000 Greek and Armenian Christians in five days of butchery. From 1915-23, some 2.5 million Greek and Armenian Christians died at the hands of Turkish Moslems. At the beginning of the 20th century, Turkey had almost 4.5 million Christian inhabitants. Today, Turkey has less than 100,000. [17] Turkey still denies that the Ottoman Turks killed over 1.5 million Christian Armenians between 1915-to-1917, in spite of the thousands of eyewitnesses and survivors, including the American Ambassador to Turkey, who was determined to bring this atrocity to the attention of the world. This is the current controversy about the Armenian Genocide. Bat Ye’or, a Jewish scholar of the topic of dhimmitude, wrote that “The genocide of the Armenians was a jihad.” [18]
Over a 1,400 year period jihad destroyed half of Christianity. According to Islam the destiny of all Christians is to convert to Islam or become "dhimmis" (semi slaves who are heavily taxed). The dhimmi status was created by one of the early caliphs (the equivalent of a pope-king) to pay the pensions of retired Moslem warriors. Thus as Islamic territories expanded so did the need to create a larger tax basis to pay for older Jihadis who could no longer fight in holy wars.
Jihad against the Hindus
Will Durant, author of the epical history series, The Story of Civilizations wrote "...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within." [19]
Moslem armies invaded India in 712 AD. They smashed and demolished temples, plundered palaces, slaughtered millions of Indian men and enslaved the women and children. The ancient cities of Baranasai Mathura, Uggain, Maheshwar, Jwalamukhi and Dwarka were sacked, the population massacred, and not one temple left standing. [20] The mountain range near India is known as the Hindu Kush. It means "Killer of Hindus" in Hindi, referring to the countless men, women and children who died of exposure while being marched across the Afghan Mountains by Moslem slave-traders to the slave markets of Central Asia. Millions of Hindus died in an Islamic attempt of ethnic cleansing. The long standing bitter, feud between India and Pakistan can be traced back to the Moslem atrocities committed against the Indian people. The French writer Francois Gautier researched and wrote a book about the Moslem rule in India's history. He stated, "Let it be said right away: the massacres perpetrated by Moslems in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese." [21]
According to Durant, the Hindus suffered from a nine-hundred-year genocide at the hands of their Arab-Moslem oppressors. Koenard Elst, estimated that 80 million Hindus were slain in the jihadi war of extermination against the Hindu unbelievers. [22] Centuries of jihad is why modern day India is only half the size of ancient India. After Hindu craftsmen built the Taj Mahal, the Moslem ruler, had their right hands cut off so that they could not build anything as beautiful for anyone else. The infamous Hindu rite of sutee, wherein widows throw themselves on the funeral pyre of their husbands, originated from Hindu wives' preference for being burned alive to rape and slavery at the hands of the Moslem conquerors. [23]
After Muhammad’s death, his successor Abu Bakr, the second caliph, declared jihad on the Arab Tribesmen who left Islam. He forced them by the sword to return to Islam. Umar, the third caliph, declared jihad on the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Jihad destroyed the Zoroastrians of Persia. Zoroastrianism was totally eliminated from Persia. Half of the Hindu civilization was annihilated with 80 million Hindus slaughtered by the jihadists. Islam is largely responsible for the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. In the last 1,400 years approximately 60 million Christians have died as a result of jihad. [24] This number includes the one million Christians in Africa martyred in the 20th century. The first Western Buddhists were the descendants of Greek soldiers of the army of Alexander the Great. They settled in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. Approximately 10 million Buddhists died. [25] In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1,400 years of jihad and slave-trading. All in all, Moslems have killed approximately 270 million people over the last 14 centuries all for the glory of Islam. [26] These facts and figures are not discussed by most political and religious leaders for fear of criticizing a world religion. If one wants to understand what drives and motivates a terrorist or a Jihadi, all one has to do is look at Muhammad’s life and Islam’s political and military history.
[1] Davis, Gregory M. Religion of Peace? Islam’s War Against the World, World Ahead Publishing, Inc., 2006
[2] Quran 9:5
[3] Quran 47:4
[4] Quran 98:6
[5] Davis, pp. 18-19
[6] Trifkovic, Serge, Defeating Jihad: How the War on Terror Can be Won- in Spite of Ourselves, Regina Orthodox Press, Inc., 2006, p. 31
[7] W. St. Clair-Tisdall, The Sources of Islam, Amarko Book Agency, New Delhi, India, 1973, pp. 71-73
[8] Hanson, Victor Davis, “The Waiting Game,” NRO Weekend nationalreviewonline, September 1, 2006,
[url]http://article.nationalreview.com/[/url] (retrieved 10-18-07)
[9] Glazov, Jamie. “The Study of Political Islam,” FrontPageMagazine.com, 02-05-2007
[10] Qur'an 47:4
[11] Davis, p. 41
[12] Muhammad, Allah, and the Intellectuals: The Doctrine of Reasoning, The Islamic Trilogy, Volume 8, CSPI, 2006
[13] Ibid
[14] Veccia Vaglieri, L. "Khaybar". Encyclopaedia of Islam Online. Ed. P.J. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel and W.P. Heinrichs. Brill Academic Publishers
[15] Muhammad bin Ishaq, Sira p. 369
[16] Hammond, Peter. Slavery, Terrorism & Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat, Christian Liberty Books, 2005
[17] Davis, p. 98
[18] Ye'or, Bat. Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide, Fairleigh Dickinson University Press, 2001, p. 374.
[19] Durant, Will. The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage, p. 459
[20] [url]http://www.frontline.org.za/news/end_of_islam.htm[/url] (retrieved 09-03-07)
[21] Gautier, Francois. Rewriting Indian History, Vikas Publishing, New Delhi, 1996
[22] Elst, Koenard, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, p. 34
[23] Muhammad, Allah, and Hinduisms: The Complete Foundational Doctrine, The Islamic Trilogy, Volume 7, CSPI, 2006
[24] Glazov, Jamie. “The Study of Political Islam,” FrontPageMagazine.com, 02-05-2007
[25] Barrett, David B. and Todd M. Johnson. World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, tables 4-10
[26] Glazoy, Jamie[/release]
8:39 & 9:29 are open ended clear commands to wage war on Islamic initiative. They are confirmed by ahadith including Sahih Bukhari 1.8.387. They are codified in Reliance of the Traveller O9.8 & 9.9.
8:39, 9:29, 8:60, 8:65 & 9:123 all confirm eternal war and violence, all are eternal commands.
Pretty much all the notable members of the Ulama disagree with you, that eternal jihad is codified by the following Muslim Jurists:
From early Muslims and Sahaba such as Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, Khalid ibn al-Walid, Ibn Abbas, Abu Huraira, Ibn Ubayd, to the medieval era scholars such as al-Shafi’i, Abu Yusuf, al-Shaybani, al-Bayhaqi, Ibn Abi Zayd, Al-Mawardi, Al-Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyyah, Averroes, Ibn Abidin, Ibn Qudamah, Ibn Qayyim, Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Hudayl, al-Suyuti, al-Asqalani, Al-Amili, Naqib al-Misri, Ibn Ahmed Ramli, Al-Hilli, Ziauddin Barani, Burhanuddin Ali, Sirhindi, al-Majlisi, Wali-Allah, and modern scholars like Sayyid Qutb, Hasan al-Bana, Iqbal, Maududi, Farahi, Nadvi, Shibli Nomani, Ahsan Khan Nyazee, Ibn Baaz, al-Qaradawi, Mian Tufail Mohammad, al-Khoe, Israr Ahmed, Majid Khadduri, Bassam Tibi, M.S Ramadan al-Buti, Ruhollah Khomeini, Sayyid Tantawy, Nasiruddin al-Albani, amongst many, many others.
Khalid and the early Caliphs sent extortion letters to the Byzantine and Persian empire demanding they convert or be invaded:
LETTER TO HERACLES CAESAR
LETTER TO KHUSRO PERWEZ, EMPEROR OF FARS
Caliph Umar following up on that extortion:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386:
Narrated Jubair bin Haiya:
'Umar sent the Muslims to the great countries to fight the pagans. When Al-Hurmuzan embraced Islam, 'Umar said to him. "I would like to consult you regarding these countries which I intend to invade." Al-Hurmuzan said, "Yes, the example of these countries and their inhabitants who are the enemies. of the Muslims, is like a bird with a head, two wings and two legs; If one of its wings got broken, it would get up over its two legs, with one wing and the head; and if the other wing got broken, it would get up with two legs and a head, but if its head got destroyed, then the two legs, two wings and the head would become useless. The head stands for Khosrau, and one wing stands for Caesar and the other wing stands for Faris. So, order the Muslims to go towards Khosrau." So, 'Umar sent us (to Khosrau) appointing An-Numan bin Muqrin as our commander. When we reached the land of the enemy, the representative of Khosrau came out with forty-thousand warriors, and an interpreter got up saying, "Let one of you talk to me!" Al-Mughira replied, "Ask whatever you wish." The other asked, "Who are you?" Al-Mughira replied, "We are some people from the Arabs; we led a hard, miserable, disastrous life: we used to suck the hides and the date stones from hunger; we used to wear clothes made up of fur of camels and hair of goats, and to worship trees and stones. While we were in this state, the Lord of the Heavens and the Earths, Elevated is His Remembrance and Majestic is His Highness, sent to us from among ourselves a Prophet whose father and mother are known to us. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." (Al-Mughira, then blamed An-Numan for delaying the attack and) An-Nu' man said to Al-Mughira, "If you had participated in a similar battle, in the company of Allah's Apostle he would not have blamed you for waiting, nor would he have disgraced you. But I accompanied Allah's Apostle in many battles and it was his custom that if he did not fight early by daytime, he would wait till the wind had started blowing and the time for the prayer was due (i.e. after midday)."
[url]http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/053.sbt.html#004.053.386[/url]
Fuckin comin up in here actin like you all educated nshit[/QUOTE]
Some of the material looks very familiar. I recently created a new Facebook group: "Come now, and let us reason together. Before the group went public I posted several discussion threads in which some of these issues were covered and documented.
Upon viewing the video under discussion I immediately created a blog post, embedding the video and adding citations to Islam's canon to document it.
The video was intended to be an alarm bell to wake viewers up, attract their attention and stimulate them to investigate Islam for themselves. You can find that blog post here: [url]http://www.bloggersbase.com/politics-and-opinions/3-islam/[/url] .
A Facebook friend suggested that I jump in here. To be truthful about it, I long since burned out on forums, having been kicked off more than I can remember accurately.
My purpose in posting this is to make information available to those willing to use it. [url]http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/[/url] makes links to and downloads of translations of Islamic texts readily available.
The Qur'an, hadith & tafsir downloads are interactive chm files. Searching one will return results from all of them if they reside in a common folder.
If you just want one general purpose reference, try EgregiousAyat.chm, which contains the worst of the Qur'an, hadith & Shari'ah with the tafsir required to support them.
Islam is founded on the Qur'an. Familiarity with it is the absolute minimum. Hadith confirm and clarify the Qur'an; the two of them are the source of Shari'ah.
The Qur'an, hadith & Shari'ah form a congruent pattern which makes matters cler to reasonable people. Unfortunately, LibTards are blind to that pattern. If you show my blog post: "What's Wrong With Islam/Muslims?" to a LibTard, he will deny what is obvious to you. If you doubt this, see my blog post: "Skewering Pompous AssIdiots".
[QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23813118]My favourite part is how you take in the first sentence and IGNORE EVERYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT.
So Meknes, are you an atheist?[/QUOTE]
Are you really wondering why? [QUOTE=Gargatul0th;23812332]Well actually...
"First off, Wahhabism is not a sect of Islam,
Fuckin comin up in here actin like you all educated nshit[/QUOTE]
Firstly you stated you have no ideal with your talking with this statement which you are debating that Saudi Arabia is not a Islamic country, you use personal insults/foul language and do not use any creditable sources or information. All you pasted is random passages or interpretation that you ether have no understanding and just copied and pasted or read what some other people thinks they mean.
Did not not see that I took the time to post variety of links for information from dozens of unique sources from many countries, different political believes, religions and organisations to prove a balance point.
Which is why I assume you believe I am a atheist for this link.
[url]http://atheism.about.com/od/islamicsects/a/wahhabi.htm[/url]
Which like I just mention above it more creditable for balance to use different sources for this type of subject matter. I know you do not think I am a atheist for my name? Because its a Islamic city where I spent a few years learning Arabic and working for internship in a security consultant firm on terrorism. While spending countless hours interviewing and working with women in poorer neighborhoods outside the medina(old city). to find out why the women from these area are chooseing to be fully covered in culture and sect that have never had such practices. Answering these questions and dealing with this spread is the key to leaning how to fight and understand radical Islam and terrorism.
Most of all my religious or lack of religious believes has no bearing on anything.
[editline]03:26AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=cccritical;23814406]you and Big Dumb American are probably the only two people on Facepunch certified to have an opinion you can back up about this, I congratulate you for not being completely one-sided
[editline]holy fuck[/editline]
holy fuck I just watched the video, was this supposed to make me think better of islam? they fucked up big time[/QUOTE]
Thank you for getting what I was trying to make clear with my post and saw that I was trying to have all my points backed up with information from many different sources and countries.
Just my opinion, but it seems to me that the religion of Islam seems to create the most problems between people out of all the religious movements. From what I've heard, they aren't taught to be tolerant of any other religious movements or beliefs except for theirs. In fact, some (if not most) are forced into believing that everyone else must be made to conform to Islam or be destroyed. I mean these guys are still in the fucking middle ages thinking they're the crusaders.
Secondly, some people just disgust me. As soon as some guy draws a political cartoon of a certain prophet, every freaking Muslim in existence cries about it or tries to kill someone. Well guess what, some idiot decapitated a statue of Mary in the middle of town, but nobody is bitching about it because they are told to actually tolerate the existence and rights of others for the most part.
SNIP: sorry I lack the ability to detect sarcasm :(
EDIT: I just watched the video now... I knew that there was a law system that some Muslims wanted the whole world to follow, but this Shari'a thing is some scary shit. I don't think I need to tell most of you guys with common sense what would happen if these laws were put into effect in any democratic nation. The result would either be a dictatorship, or complete anarchy.
[QUOTE=cccritical;23814406]you and Big Dumb American are probably the only two people on Facepunch certified to have an opinion you can back up about this, I congratulate you for not being completely one-sided
[editline]holy fuck[/editline]
holy fuck I just watched the video, was this supposed to make me think better of islam? they fucked up big time[/QUOTE]
You are quite thick if you think that the maker of the video is advocating Islam. His youtube name is "Ihateallreligions".
[QUOTE=Meknes;23816268]:words:[/QUOTE]
A few months ago two shady as fuck middle easterners who could barely speak english and had just come to America were training to fly planes, I couldn't refuse since my boss is a dick but now that I think about it if another 9/11 happens soon do you think it'll be my fault? :saddowns:
[editline]10:57PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;23816326]
lol... he's insensitive? Have you even seen the justice system in most Muslim states? At least here in America, we don't kill/maim practically everyone who is accused of committing a crime.[/QUOTE]
That was sarcasm, most of them are tribal fucks
[QUOTE=Occlusion;23811321]Come on baby light my fire[/QUOTE]
Try to set the night on...FIRE!
Good video- shows the true face of islam right there.
[editline]05:05AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=AimlessGiant;23815490]Fuck off Islam, Mohammed is a dick and your bullshit religious-political views are barbaric. I am going to knock down every Islamic court in Britain if I have to.[/QUOTE]
Mohammed was a war-loving pedofile who tricked people into doing his bidding.
mos def is a muslim and he's done more good than any of you people ever will
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