Swedish police struggling to handle a single violent man - General

[QUOTE=TheTalon;52062264]Taking someone down is one thing, Actually getting both arms in handcuffs is another Why FOUR officers couldn't do it I'll never know. This is what police work is eventually going to look like, though. The public can't really stomach how gritty or ugly it just does get and every time an officer does their job there's someone gunning for their career, or a riot, or vandalism, or a protest[/QUOTE] Maybe we shouldn't just accept how "gritty or ugly" it can get and instead try to improve the situation? These things aren't statics, there's no universal law of physics that says "police work has to be gritty and violent!" Have you considered that maybe the police in Sweden are less aggressive and violent because they don't [i]need[/i] to be as aggressive and violent?

[IMG]http://image.prntscr.com/image/702866269a914be5bfdb0103aa0e0603.png[/IMG] never forget the power of meth

[QUOTE=freaka;52061622]This is why gender quota is crap[/QUOTE] hur dur weak wamon cant do strong man job I had the pleasure of watching my jacked, drunk neighbor get picked up and slammed onto the hood of a squad car by a woman officer after he put the male officer on the ground. She subsequently wrestled him all the way to the pavement and cuffed him by herself. Yes, women generally have a lower physical strength ceiling than men, but you don't need to be able to pick up cars or pull freight trains to serve as a police officer or soldier. The issue is training. Physical standards for women tend to be lower than men for the same task even though a) the standards for men are set because that's where they need to be to do the job and b) women are as capable as an equivalently built man of meeting the male standards if they're willing to apply themselves. Anyway, wrestling this idiot wasn't getting them anywhere. I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if he was on something considering the level of strength he was displaying for his build. Better to wait for backup than risk getting hurt, although I'm curious -- do Swedish police officers not carry tasers?

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52062975]hur dur weak wamon cant do strong man job I had the pleasure of watching my jacked, drunk neighbor get picked up and slammed onto the hood of a squad car by a woman officer after he put the male officer on the ground. She subsequently wrestled him all the way to the pavement and cuffed him by herself. Yes, women generally have a lower physical strength ceiling than men, but you don't need to be able to pick up cars or pull freight trains to serve as a police officer or soldier. The issue is training. Physical standards for women tend to be lower than men for the same task even though a) the standards for men are set because that's where they need to be to do the job and b) women are as capable as an equivalently built man of meeting the male standards if they're willing to apply themselves. Anyway, wrestling this idiot wasn't getting them anywhere. I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if he was on something considering the level of strength he was displaying for his build. Better to wait for backup than risk getting hurt, although I'm curious -- do Swedish police officers not carry tasers?[/QUOTE] These police officers shouldnt be in their branch, they are obvious case of gender quotes and its affects, they actually even have him on the ground after a civil person fucking beats him down, and every police officer here gets training in how to restrain people once they are on the ground, but no instead they retreat backwards like cowards looking like they have no clue on what to do like jesus fucking christ. If anything this video just sends a message to people that are criminals that believed the police here is weak confirms their views.

That and what kind of moron leaves their only leverage/weapon just about on the ground? That officer should be terminated or moved to desk work for being so careless. That's the kind of carelessness that gets people killed. Imagine if she were a cop in the US and just left her loaded gun sitting on the ground during this scene? Fucking mental.

[QUOTE=GentlemanLexi;52062298][IMG]http://image.prntscr.com/image/702866269a914be5bfdb0103aa0e0603.png[/IMG] never forget the power of meth[/QUOTE] Daddy? [t]http://i.imgur.com/llHcEoC.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Anderan;52062185]There's multiple examples of people on shit like pcp just shrugging off multiple tasers.[/QUOTE] That's why I also mentioned the burly police officers.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;52062286]ah yes this [I]anecdote [/I]definetely represents the [I]entire [/I]police force in my country[/QUOTE] Out of 4 cops you think one of them would have been competent.

[QUOTE=Ax3l;52061279]I'm genuinely curious as to it being that strength, cause the police here tends to be somewhat well trained and disciplined when it comes to actually doing their job and being proud to do a good job. Hell, as much as I hate to say it, chances are that if they were too rough, and it got on camera, they'd probably just get shit for being "racist". Feels like it wouldn't be the first time that happened here. :s:[/QUOTE] It could actually be because of this. The two idiots recording it are laughing about it in Arabic and calling the guy fighting "an absolute beast" in a way that makes it seem they're rooting for him. That guy who came to help, I dunno why he didn't just full pelt body slam / rugby tackle the guys knees. He'd be down in no time, especially since it would be from the side / behind.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;52062286]ah yes this [I]anecdote [/I]definetely represents the [I]entire [/I]police force in my country[/QUOTE] People somehow implying that American police forces are better trained than this definitely haven't seen the average police officer in Sweden. I've yet to see one out of shape officer during my time in Skåne. Also where exactly is the proof that the guy is an asylum seeker? Why is that in the title?

[QUOTE=Jack32;52063459]Out of 4 cops you think one of them would have been competent.[/QUOTE] Like others have stated in this very thread, our police force is more than competent. This seems more like a localized problem to this patrol in general. It's not a representation of the entire workforce, and the implication that it would be is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;52063686]Like others have stated in this very thread, our police force is more than competent. This seems more like a localized problem to this patrol in general. It's not a representation of the entire workforce, and the implication that it would be is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] I don't think it represents the Swedish police entirely, but we can also look at this. [quote]Approximately a third of all police students are women, and in 2011 women accounted for 40 percent of all employees.[/quote] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Police_Authority#CITEREFSwedish_National_Police_Board_2011.2C_.27Personalstatistik.27[/url] I just hope the other Swedish Female Officers have met higher standards than what this situation required or demonstrated. Because anyone should be able to serve as an Officer, but they should be held to the same physical standards since use of force is to be expected. Especially if they aren't even given even a taser it seems.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52063721]I don't think it represents the Swedish police entirely, but we can also look at this. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Police_Authority#CITEREFSwedish_National_Police_Board_2011.2C_.27Personalstatistik.27[/url] I just hope the other Swedish Female Officers have met higher standards than what this situation required or demonstrated. Because anyone should be able to serve as an Officer, but they should be held to the same physical standards since use of force is to be expected. Especially if they aren't even given even a taser it seems.[/QUOTE] They regularly carry [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Police_Authority#Equipment"]SIG Sauer, pepper spray and expandable batons[/URL]. Their equipment isn't a problem. And bringing up the % of women in the force is completely irrelevant, so I don't see why you even bring that up in the first place. What are you implying?

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;52063791]They regularly carry [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Police_Authority#Equipment"]SIG Sauer, pepper spray and expandable batons[/URL]. Their equipment isn't a problem. And bringing up the % of women in the force is completely irrelevant, so I don't see why you even bring that up in the first place. What are you implying?[/QUOTE] I'm implying that if 3 female officers cannot put down single man, then either this small group is specifically at fault, or that the standard across the board should be relooked at in regards to female officers expectations for physical force. Even with Batons these officers in the video looked completely ineffectual. Which in this case of 40% composition of officers being female would be something to look at if the standard is not adequate to subdue an average physical encounter. Which I hope a 3 v 1 would be more than ideal to subdue anyone, bar a professional fighter/hulk.

should have just fucking shot him

[QUOTE=Tudd;52063828]I'm implying that if 3 female officers cannot put down single man, then either this small group is specifically at fault, or that the standard across the board should be relooked at in regards to female officers expectations for physical force. Even with Batons these officers in the video looked completely ineffectual. Which in this case of 40% composition of officers being female would be something to look at if the standard is not adequate to subdue an average physical encounter. Which I hope a 3 v 1 would be more than ideal usually to subdue anyone bar a professional fighter/hulk.[/QUOTE] It is a localized issue, and the idea that it wouldn't be is ludicrous. You're judging a police force of ~20,000 entirely from the performance of 3 officers, in a 5-minute clip, from an unknown district with unknown circumstances or context. Should I judge the entirety of the US police force from a singular video depicting them in bad light, despite only having good encounters with them when I've visited? Should I judge [I]any [/I]group of people based on one video on the internet? It's always funny to me how people who are such advocates for how much context matters end up caring very little about it when it doesn't suit their narrative. Ask any Swede who has been around cops, or seen cops in action and you'll get a good account for their persistence and dedication. This video is an anecdote. Stop pretending it paints the absolute picture that the entire female sector of the police force needs re-evaluation. [editline]5th April 2017[/editline] The realization hits me that I'm arguing with [I][U][B]Tudd [/B][/U][/I]about generalizations and bigotry. That can only end well. I'm gonna go now.

[QUOTE=loopoo;52063570]It could actually be because of this. The two idiots recording it are laughing about it in Arabic and calling the guy fighting "an absolute beast" in a way that makes it seem they're rooting for him. That guy who came to help, I dunno why he didn't just full pelt body slam / rugby tackle the guys knees. He'd be down in no time, especially since it would be from the side / behind.[/QUOTE] tbh if I was watching I'd probably be low-key rooting for him too until someone actually got hurt.

y tho. The guy is being belligerent and aggressive and the cops are just doing their job. Why would I root for a guy who's trying to smack the shit out of some cops who are trying to keep the area safe?

Do they not have tazers?

Uh, any reason why they just let him walk away? They're not even running after him. They're just like "Ah, we'll get to you eventually"

[QUOTE=Boaraes;52064265]Uh, any reason why they just let him walk away? They're not even running after him. They're just like "Ah, we'll get to you eventually"[/QUOTE] And then they don't see each other for about a week, and then they do the same thing all over again.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;52063945]It is a localized issue, and the idea that it wouldn't be is ludicrous. You're judging a police force of ~20,000 entirely from the performance of 3 officers, in a 5-minute clip, from an unknown district with unknown circumstances or context. Should I judge the entirety of the US police force from a singular video depicting them in bad light, despite only having good encounters with them when I've visited? Should I judge [I]any [/I]group of people based on one video on the internet? It's always funny to me how people who are such advocates for how much context matters end up caring very little about it when it doesn't suit their narrative. Ask any Swede who has been around cops, or seen cops in action and you'll get a good account for their persistence and dedication. This video is an anecdote. Stop pretending it paints the absolute picture that the entire female sector of the police force needs re-evaluation. [editline]5th April 2017[/editline] The realization hits me that I'm arguing with [I][U][B]Tudd [/B][/U][/I]about generalizations and bigotry. That can only end well. I'm gonna go now.[/QUOTE] You have no knowledge if this is just a localized issue. Just as much as I could claim that the whole female population of Swedish officers are as non-effective as these individuals in potential physical confrontations. So don't act like your position is even remotely pure truth. What I can say is that this video does show concern if 3 random female officers couldn't subdue one person of average stature, amongst other problems like carelessly leaving their weapons on the ground. That is a failure in law enforcement regardless of gender, and revaluation should happen to anyone who performs like this and the groups they trained with, male or female. And with biological fact that women are on average weaker than men, that concern grows more to meet the standard. Also it is good to debate with people who disagree with you.

I personally think it has to do with incompetence. The moment the guy started to assault the police, they had the right to draw their pistols and use lethal force. Swedish source from police site: [URL]https://polisen.se/Om-polisen/Sa-arbetar-Polisen/Polisens-befogenheter/Polisens-ratt-att-anvanda-skjutvapen/[/URL] Example of violent/dangerous people handled by Swedish police using pistols: Shooting a guy holding a knife: [URL]https://youtu.be/QWANmeH0Rt0?t=15[/URL] Warning shot when a crowd gets too close to the police: [URL]https://youtu.be/ibtxBvc-1nM?t=105[/URL] Stone thrower gets shot: [URL]https://youtu.be/tj6zu8j3YkY?t=43[/URL] Violent knife guy gets shot [URL]https://youtu.be/uPknu1Iuc08[/URL] Warning shot when guy tries to free his friend: [URL]https://youtu.be/SPqwdRi4Yyo?t=45[/URL] [B]A thing to note:[/B] Warning shots are only allowed when a situation fulfills the criteria for use of lethal force. The fulfillment of the criteria are determined by the police on the spot. So any of the warning shots could have been fired at the treat, but the idea is to not use unnecessary lethal force unless there is no other way. Swedish source, it's a study by the police: [URL]https://polisen.se/Global/www och Intrapolis/Ovriga rapporter/Rapport polisens anv skjutvapen 160201.pdf[/URL] [B]Regarding tasers: [/B] The Swedish police will start trialing tasers starting in 2018, lasting 2 years until 2020. After that a study will be done to determine their effectiveness. Since we have so few police shootings with lethal outcome the introduction of tasers have been slow. Swedish source from police site: [URL]https://polisen.se/Aktuellt/Nyheter/2016/Maj/Forsoksverksamhet-med-elchockvapen-infors/[/URL]

politically correct approach, let the attacker get tired by smashing his bare hands into brave police staff no single multikulti blood was spilled while scars and bruises of law officers are just marks of honor ... those rocks thrown aren't deadly weapons so response isn't needed either i wonder how many times outside the video he got away from the grip ...

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;52061811][QUOTE=Zenreon117;52061450]So, letting this guy, who you say may have an unknown mental and drug state, run wild is the best course of action? I'm sorry, but that seems irresponsible at best. The guy just turned their police car into an art display and all they do is calmly watch as he walks his ass back to whatever domestic violence incident called them there in the first place. [t]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/box.png[/t] x 19[/QUOTE] a bashed in police car window is less of a big deal than a bashed in skull [t]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/t] x 4[/QUOTE] Could somebody explain to me how it could possibly be okay to just let a violent and potentially unstable person walk away into a building full of people seconds after he proved he gives exactly no shits about the law?

[QUOTE=Swebonny;52064616]I personally think it has to do with incompetence. The moment the guy started to assault the police, they had the right to draw their pistols and use lethal force. Swedish source from police site: [URL]https://polisen.se/Om-polisen/Sa-arbetar-Polisen/Polisens-befogenheter/Polisens-ratt-att-anvanda-skjutvapen/[/URL] Example of violent/dangerous people handled by Swedish police using pistols: Shooting a guy holding a knife: [URL]https://youtu.be/QWANmeH0Rt0?t=15[/URL] Warning shot when a crowd gets too close to the police: [URL]https://youtu.be/ibtxBvc-1nM?t=105[/URL] Stone thrower gets shot: [URL]https://youtu.be/tj6zu8j3YkY?t=43[/URL] Violent knife guy gets shot [URL]https://youtu.be/uPknu1Iuc08[/URL] Warning shot when guy tries to free his friend: [URL]https://youtu.be/SPqwdRi4Yyo?t=45[/URL] [B]A thing to note:[/B] Warning shots are only allowed when a situation fulfills the criteria for use of lethal force. The fulfillment of the criteria are determined by the police on the spot. So any of the warning shots could have been fired at the treat, but the idea is to not use unnecessary lethal force unless there is no other way. Swedish source, it's a study by the police: [URL]https://polisen.se/Global/www och Intrapolis/Ovriga rapporter/Rapport polisens anv skjutvapen 160201.pdf[/URL] [B]Regarding tasers: [/B] The Swedish police will start trialing tasers starting in 2018, lasting 2 years until 2020. After that a study will be done to determine their effectiveness. Since we have so few police shootings with lethal outcome the introduction of tasers have been slow. Swedish source from police site: [URL]https://polisen.se/Aktuellt/Nyheter/2016/Maj/Forsoksverksamhet-med-elchockvapen-infors/[/URL][/QUOTE] Just saw Angry Foreiner's video with a sensible angle on the events: [video=youtube;3EG5Nl37RsE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EG5Nl37RsE&ab_channel=AngryForeigner[/video]

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52064870]Could somebody explain to me how it could possibly be okay to just let a violent and potentially unstable person walk away into a building full of people seconds after he proved he gives exactly no shits about the law?[/QUOTE] I'm guessing the loophole in the law is that even if they didn't have the situation under control, they would not be liable for the criminals presence until he actually hurt or damage anything that wasn't police property. I too find it weird that people forgot that police are supposed to protect the public from dangerous persons and prioritized the police's safety over the public.

[QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;52065618]Just saw Angry Foreiner's video with a sensible angle on the events: [video=youtube;3EG5Nl37RsE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EG5Nl37RsE&ab_channel=AngryForeigner[/video][/QUOTE] He found something that I couldn't. [URL]https://nyheteridag.se/startade-brand-slogs-med-poliser-och-forstorde-polisbil-vid-asylboende-han-blev-galen/[/URL] and google translated [URL="https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnyheteridag.se%2Fstartade-brand-slogs-med-poliser-och-forstorde-polisbil-vid-asylboende-han-blev-galen%2F&sandbox=1"]https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnyheteridag.se%2Fstartade-brand-slogs-med-poliser-och-forstorde-polisbil-vid-asylboende-han-blev-galen%2F&sandbox=1 [/URL]Also someone asked why is the "asylum seeker" in the title. I couldn't confirm that at the point of making this thread so I've used "violent man" instead. Now it's confirmed.

[QUOTE=foxtrot_iic;52061378]Ill list some things here to help clear up why the police acted as they did. 1. Unknown mental state of the suspect 2. Unknown drug use, PCP can cause that outburst of strength 3. He is clearly showing he has no problem using violence towards authority 4. The police are trained to be one use of force model above the suspect, the suspect here was not responding to less lethal options and the officers were wasting energy in an attempt to subdue him. All these things considered, I can see why the officers acted the way they did. Instead of jeopardizing their own safety in tiring themselves by wrestling and grappling with the suspect (which is incredibly tiring) they decided to let him burn himself out and wait for backup. The officers were not "pussies"; they simply cared about their well being and judged the situation to not be worth the possible danger to their own persons. Now, if the suspect had started to show violence to bystanders, I guarantee the use of force would have increased and the officers would have made every attempt to stop him. My experience in this matter comes from 2 years of police related college education.[/QUOTE] to elaborate, this is what a possibly drugged man can do [video=youtube;wLZq5GGPxws]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZq5GGPxws[/video] dude just straight up ignores mace after he punches a fucking wooden fence like "meh" then there is this guy [video=youtube;fNXdzPTkviM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNXdzPTkviM[/video] just straight up ignored multiple tasers and fought the police off I doubt that non-American police would be able to deal with people like this just out of them not likely dealing with it as much. There are some crazy ass people here.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52065753] [video=youtube;fNXdzPTkviM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNXdzPTkviM[/video][/QUOTE] On the topic of taser failures/ineffectiveness, this is my favorite video. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHb2_P1Xd7g[/media]