Transilience - The video of a 6 foot 6, 350 Pound, Non Passing, Queer ,Feminist, economically challe - General

he's trying to make a le funny joke hahaha check you're privilege bro!!

[QUOTE=Judas;41614064]he's trying to make a le funny joke hahaha check you're privilege bro!![/QUOTE] Heheh, I don't understand what these 'tumblr' users are trying to convey so I'm just going to make fun of them :)

[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41614078]Heheh, I don't understand what these 'tumblr' users are trying to convey so I'm just going to make fun of them :)[/QUOTE] and all the cool kids on facepunch will like me for it

[QUOTE=Judas;41614083]and all the cool kids on facepunch will like me for it[/QUOTE] Wow, I bet I'll get [I]all[/I] of the funny ratings for being a condescending prick!

[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41614061]Your point is null because it's completely unrelated to the thread. I say gender is a social construct because some people like to think that it's a physical thing for whichever reason.[/QUOTE] Well I think it is a social construct too, at least until you get to the effects of testosterone and estrogen (the shittiest chemicals), I just accidentally quoted you instead of the other guy and meant, "my point still stands about killing ourselves" when I made the reply.

[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41614092]Wow, I bet I'll get [I]all[/I] of the funny ratings for being a condescending prick![/QUOTE] maybe even a winner :O my parents will be so proud and my life will be validated

[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41614078]Heheh, I don't understand what these 'tumblr' users are trying to convey so I'm just going to make fun of them :)[/QUOTE] I understand transgender ones and all. I find the transpecies one or otherkin or transablists or other such weirdoes to be hilarious. Even if most of them are trolls.

[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41614078]Heheh, I don't understand what these 'tumblr' users are trying to convey so I'm just going to make fun of them :)[/QUOTE] no I understand perfectly what they are trying to convey, which is why I make fun of them

[QUOTE=(~_^);41614146]no I understand perfectly what they are trying to convey, which is why I make fun of them[/QUOTE] Are you sanitary? The rest of my cutting knifes are in the washer.

[QUOTE=(~_^);41614146]no I understand perfectly what they are trying to convey, which is why I make fun of them[/QUOTE] The message that anyone tries to convey can be twisted and distorted by those who receive and attempt to interpret it. No concept or message or idea is set in stone and all of them can be manipulated by no end to meet the standards of biases of those who read them. Maybe you understand your own interpretation of their message but not the author's interpretation of the message, maybe there is a vital disconnect that is large enough that you and the tumblr users have different forms of qualia and will never see eye to eye. There is only fact in the physical world, things formulated in any mind can only properly sustain itself within the context of the state of that mind or minds similar to it. You are incorrect. False.

what point are you trying to make exactly you're just saying a bunch of words without saying anything

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;41614222]The message that anyone tries to convey can be twisted and distorted by those who receive and attempt to interpret it. No concept or message or idea is set in stone and all of them can be manipulated by no end to meet the standards of biases of those who read them. Maybe you understand your own interpretation of their message but not the author's interpretation of the message, maybe there is a vital disconnect that is large enough that you and the tumblr users have different forms of qualia and will never see eye to eye. There is only fact in the physical world, things formulated in any mind can only properly sustain itself within the context of the state of that mind or minds similar to it. You are incorrect. False.[/QUOTE] So one the one hand everything is subjective to the person thinking it and on the other I'm objectively wrong. Right.

[QUOTE=Judas;41614271]what point are you trying to make exactly you're just saying a bunch of words without saying anything[/QUOTE] He doesn't understand what they are trying to convey because a complex message is always interpreted differently than it is written by the creator, so, boo. I haven't slept in twenty something hours and I feel like experimenting with logic and arguments.

I can't believe FP honestly doesn't understand the trans thing at all. Thought you guys did, guess not. Time to post this image [t]http://doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gender-identity.jpg[/t] You can be male but mentally and psychologically identify as a female, likely causing you to want to be transgendered so you can actually be female if you are male and vice versa It is undeniable and irrefutable fact that gender identity is mutually exclusive from your sex, which is mutually exclusive from your sexual orientation. Most of the time, all of these line up (you are a male sex who's gender ID is a male and your orientation is twoards females), but its reasonably common for differentiation to happen in any of these categories from each other (not super common though, still). Being someone who is male and ID's as a female is not much different of a situation of a male who's sexual orientation is for other males. It's not something you choose or want, its simply how your brain and personality happens to be wired. Becoming transgender is a choice (well, unless you are born physically with both which is extremely rare I'm pretty sure), but its a choice caused by the non-choice of being a male who ID's as a female (or vice versa). I don't see why that's a big deal, or up for debate at all.

[QUOTE=(~_^);41614281]So one the one hand everything is subjective to the person thinking it and on the other I'm objectively wrong. Right.[/QUOTE] If you objectively understand the message you are objectively wrong, but subjectively right if you want to think of yourself that way, because the message changes and distorts when viewed through different mental lenses, so it can not be objectively interpreted.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;41614299]He doesn't understand what they are trying to convey because a complex message is always interpreted differently than it is written by the creator, so, boo.[/QUOTE] By that logic it would be impossible to refute any argument at all. [editline]27th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=KorJax;41614319]I can't believe FP honestly doesn't understand the trans thing at all. Thought you guys did, guess not. Time to post this image [t]http://doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gender-identity.jpg[/t] You can be male but mentally and psychologically identify as a female, likely causing you to want to be transgendered so you can actually be female if you are male and vice versa It is undeniable and irrefutable fact that gender identity is mutually exclusive from your sex, which is mutually exclusive from your sexual orientation. Most of the time, all of these line up (you are a male sex who's gender ID is a male and your orientation is twoards females), but its reasonably common for differentiation to happen in any of these categories from each other (not super common though, still). Being someone who is male and ID's as a female is not much different of a situation of a male who's sexual orientation is for other males. It's not something you choose or want, its simply how your brain and personality happens to be wired. Becoming transgender is a choice (well, unless you are born physically with both which is extremely rare I'm pretty sure), but its a choice caused by the non-choice of being a male who ID's as a female (or vice versa). I don't see why that's a big deal, or up for debate at all.[/QUOTE] No I understand those premises, I just don't accept them. I don't accept the argument that nonstandard sexual orientations are isomorphic to nonstandard "gender identities".

[QUOTE=(~_^);41614337] No I understand those premises, I just don't accept them. I don't accept the argument that nonstandard sexual orientations are isomorphic to nonstandard "gender identities".[/QUOTE] uh why

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41614383]uh why[/QUOTE] Because it's a non sequitur.

[QUOTE=KorJax;41614319]I can't believe FP honestly doesn't understand the trans thing at all. Thought you guys did, guess not. Time to post this image [t]http://doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gender-identity.jpg[/t] You can be male but mentally and psychologically identify as a female, likely causing you to want to be transgendered so you can actually be female if you are male and vice versa It is undeniable and irrefutable fact that gender identity is mutually exclusive from your sex, which is mutually exclusive from your sexual orientation. Most of the time, all of these line up (you are a male sex who's gender ID is a male and your orientation is twoards females), but its reasonably common for differentiation to happen in any of these categories from each other (not super common though, still). Being someone who is male and ID's as a female is not much different of a situation of a male who's sexual orientation is for other males. It's not something you choose or want, its simply how your brain and personality happens to be wired. Becoming transgender is a choice (well, unless you are born physically with both which is extremely rare I'm pretty sure), but its a choice caused by the non-choice of being a male who ID's as a female (or vice versa). I don't see why that's a big deal, or up for debate at all.[/QUOTE] But if you are a "someone who is male and ID's as a female" then isn't that something you can never actually change? If someone runs a DNA test, you'll still be male through and through.

[QUOTE=(~_^);41614337]By that logic it would be impossible to refute any argument at all.[/QUOTE] Any argument pertaining to human or moral or philosophical or meta issues follows the logic set down by the participants of the argument, any argument pertaining to fact, such as mathematics, follows the logic of mathematics unless people want to say things like "5+5 = 11", in which case it becomes a subjective and abstract/meta matter. Arguments pertaining to objective matters where there is only fact can be refuted (if someone is claiming that something that isn't fact is true or vice versa), abstract and non-physical things can't unless there are rules about how the arguments should work such as a moral compass or what is "right and wrong". The outcome of abstract arguments can be subjectively correct according to a moral compass or some similar rule book, but take those away and the argument has no value of correct or incorrect. If "all messages come out differently rather than the way the creator intended them to be", then "I (objectively) understand the blogger's message" is incorrect.

[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;41614438]Any argument pertaining to human or moral or philosophical or meta issues follows the logic set down by the participants of the argument, any argument pertaining to fact, such as mathematics, follows the logic of mathematics unless people want to say things like "5+5 = 11", in which case it becomes a subjective and abstract/meta matter. Arguments pertaining to objective matters where there is only fact can be refuted, abstract and non-physical things can't unless there are rules about how the arguments should work such as a moral compass or what is "right and wrong". The outcome of abstract arguments can be subjectively correct according to a moral compass or some similar rule book, but take those away and the argument has no value of correct or incorrect. If "all messages come out differently rather than the way the creator intended them to be", then "I (objectively) understand the blogger's message" is incorrect.[/QUOTE] Look if you want to get technical I'll dress it in autism for you: I understand the author's brain state with regard to the topic well enough to be able to pass an [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_Turing_Test]Ideological Turing Test[/url].

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;41614403]But if you are a "someone who is male and ID's as a female" then isn't that something you can never actually change? If someone runs a DNA test, you'll still be male through and through.[/QUOTE] yes but why does that matter? We can pretty accurately make them appear biologically male. The only difference being mating capability. Your mind is your entire identity, so you refer to how the mind identifies. Have you ever been mistaken for the opposite sex? If so you know how uncomfortable it is. That's essentially how trans people feel all the time.

[QUOTE=(~_^);41613887]it means that most trans people in the public eye are shameless degenerates[/QUOTE] lol yes and no Please don't involve me in that statement

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41614463]yes but why does that matter? We can pretty accurately make them appear biologically male. The only difference being mating capability. Your mind is your entire identity, so you refer to how the mind identifies. Have you ever been mistaken for the opposite sex? If so you know how uncomfortable it is. That's essentially how trans people feel all the time.[/QUOTE] I just feel its a little peculiar that all through the second half of the video (I skipped to 17 minutes in and watched from there) they make countless comparisons between nature and themselves. But in nature gender is something that is inate, its not something you change because you want to. I could call myself a pumpkin if I really wanted to and it'd be the same argument, but does it make sense to anyone else? I could dress up as a pumpkin, I could use pumpkin perfume, but I am not and never will actually be a pumpkin.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;41614403]But if you are a "someone who is male and ID's as a female" then isn't that something you can never actually change? If someone runs a DNA test, you'll still be male through and through.[/QUOTE] That isn't your identity however sex and identity are different, even if you are right [QUOTE=nigerianprince;41614498]I just feel its a little peculiar that all through the second half of the video (I skipped to 17 minutes in and watched from there) they make countless comparisons between nature and themselves. But in nature gender is something that is inate, its not something you change because you want to. I could call myself a pumpkin if I really wanted to and it'd be the same argument, but does it make sense to anyone else? I could dress up as a pumpkin, I could use pumpkin perfume, but I am not and never will actually be a pumpkin.[/QUOTE] thats a really bad example, and kind of exaggerating the hell out of it. But i really don't see how someone can compare nature to transgenderism.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;41614498]I just feel its a little peculiar that all through the second half of the video (I skipped to 17 minutes in and watched from there) they make countless comparisons between nature and themselves. But in nature gender is something that is inate, its not something you change because you want to. I could call myself a pumpkin if I really wanted to and it'd be the same argument, but does it make sense to anyone else? I could dress up as a pumpkin, I could use pumpkin perfume, but I am not and never will actually be a pumpkin.[/QUOTE] yes, gender is innate, and sometimes you're born with one that doesn't match your sex. Those people can't change their gender, you're absolutely right, so it's unfair for you to expect them to live in accordance with their sex. Your pumpkin analogy is just silly and I shouldn't have to explain why if you really understand the concept. [editline]27th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=(~_^);41614400]Because it's a non sequitur.[/QUOTE] no it isn't

[QUOTE=J!NX;41614502]That isn't your identity however sex and identity are different, even if you are right [/QUOTE] How does identity come into it? All I feel from watching a large amount of the video is that it is a bit of a paradox for people who "[I]don't want to fit in[/I]" (she/he says they don't wear prosthetic breasts because they want to be fluid and don't want to fit in) expecting to fit in. I don't get that.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41614530]no it isn't[/QUOTE] Show me how it follows then.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;41614530]yes, gender is innate, and sometimes you're born with one that doesn't match your sex. Those people can't change their gender, you're absolutely right, so it's unfair for you to expect them to live in accordance with their sex. Your pumpkin analogy is just silly and I shouldn't have to explain why if you really understand the concept. [editline]27th July 2013[/editline] no it isn't[/QUOTE] Obviously for people who are actually hermaphrodites or there is some reason for having to be transgender, then that is one issue, however the video being discussed here seems like an entirely different issue (from what I have seen of it); it is someone wanting to be something else. I don't really expect them to live in accordance with anything; as long as they don't deceive people regarding their gender (i.e. enter into an intimate relationship without revealing their gender) then I honestly couldn't care less. But in terms of not wanting to fit in and then complaining when you don't fit in, I have a real hard time understanding it.

[QUOTE=(~_^);41614460]Look if you want to get technical I'll dress it in autism for you: I understand the author's brain state with regard to the topic well enough to be able to pass an [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_Turing_Test]Ideological Turing Test[/url].[/QUOTE] This test could prove that you know a great deal about the tumblr author's position, though you may not fully understand them or their position unless you are also able to entirely emphasize with it (this means experiencing the emotional state of the author while reading or listening to their message), mimicry without empathy can be used to pass the test, too. Though, this entire argument was for fun since I wanted to try doing strange logic, so even if I'm wrong, it's okay.