[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49319895]The problem I have is that this opinion seems to be based on the false presupposition that any sacrifice will have a positive impact solely by virtue of it being a sacrifice.
It isn't "putting X restriction on guns will reduce the number of deaths for X reason", it's just "putting X restriction on guns seems reasonable enough, so it should probably reduce the number of gun related deaths"[/QUOTE]
We typically don't know how effective a measure will be until we try it, so it's more a matter of "is this proposed measure cost effective enough for it's likelihood of success and is it worth the cost to implement for the possibility that it may work." It's quite similar to Game Theory now that I think about it.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49319829]Whatever, there is clearly no convincing you people of any viewpoint other than your own.
Of course you would think my argument is retarded when all you guys do is sit in conservative echo chambers like /k/ all day blocking out any opinion.[/QUOTE]
- I've never been on /k/ (I don't even use 4-Chan)
- I test on the left/Liberal of most issues according to various political compass and political leaning tests (guns being one of the rare exceptions)
- I'm generally in Support of Bernie Sanders
yet because I enjoy guns, and don't wish to see any more feelgood, knee jerk reaction legislation passed in regards to them (as I made clear fairly early into the thread, I'm definitely for things such as tightening up our Background Check system, mandating better safety courses, and a couple other measures, in addition to attacking the root causes for violence in this nation, and tackling mental health care on top of that to help bring down suicides) I must sit in a conservative echo chamber all day.
get real man, if anyone is in an echo-chamber its you.
[QUOTE=bdd458;49319909]- I've never been on /k/ (I don't even use 4-Chan)
- I test on the left/Liberal of most issues according to various political compass and political leaning tests
- I'm generally in Support of Bernie Sanders
yet because I enjoy guns, and don't wish to see any more feelgood, knee jerk reaction legislation passed in regards to them (as I made clear fairly early into the thread, I'm definitely for things such as tightening up our Background Check system, mandating better safety courses, and a couple other measures, in addition to attacking the root causes for violence in this nation, and tackling mental health care on top of that to help bring down suicides) I must sit in a conservative echo chamber all day.
get real man[/QUOTE]
Isn't Bernie Sanders mostly okay-ish with guns? There's no reason for a liberal-minded person for be anti-gun really, most liberals want to increase people's rights (being pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, etc). It's one of many contradictions in politics. Also, what does it mean for me if I'm pro-regulation in some countries but not in others and depending on how it's implemented, am I gun-neutral?
[QUOTE=Zyler;49319908]We typically don't know how effective a measure will be until we try it, so it's more a matter of "is this proposed measure cost effective enough for it's likelihood of success and is it worth the cost to implement for the possibility that it may work."[/QUOTE]
how can you tell how likely something is to work if you don't have any logical explanation for why it would work to begin with
that's like stating a percentage change for fairies existing, that isn't how likelihood works
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49319934]how can you tell how likely something is to work if you don't have any logical explanation for why it would work to begin with
that's like stating a percentage change for fairies existing, that isn't how likelihood works[/QUOTE]
That's not what I meant, I mean if I think something is going to work (in this case, by reducing the incidence of muggings taking place, which I believe will reduce the necessity and therefore likelihood of fatalities of either the mugger or the victim due to muggings) then I can only really speculate and don't know for sure whether or not it will work until it's implemented. Sorry if I'm not being clear.
[QUOTE=Zyler;49319965]That's not what I meant, I mean if I think something is going to work (in this case, by reducing the incidence of muggings taking place, which I believe will reduce the necessity and therefore likelihood of fatalities of either the mugger or the victim due to muggings) then I can only really speculate and don't know for sure whether or not it will work until it's implemented.[/QUOTE]
fair enough
my complaint is with the line of thinking "we can't do nothing, so we should do X", which really isn't something that's limited to gun control.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49319829]Of course you would think my argument is retarded when all you guys do is sit in conservative echo chambers like /k/ all day blocking out any opinion.[/QUOTE]
My irony meter just had a stroke.
[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;49319651]I know someone who got mugged. Guess what? He didn't draw a gun on the mugger, he gave the mugger his wallet, lost $100 and kept his life. Drawing a gun on a mugger is a sure fire way to get stabbed.[/QUOTE]
There's a guy in my sonar class who was mugged, gave the mugger his wallet and everything, and yet the mugger still stabbed him afterward. Not drawing a gun on a mugger is a sure fire way to having someone else be in control of whether you get stabbed or not.
Why haven't these hero gun owners waltzed in to a massacre and stopped the guy?
Hey Zyler I would like it if you replied to my extremely long post where I replied to all of your arguments on page 4 I put a lot of time into that and I would be interested on hearing your thoughts.
[QUOTE=RoboChimp;49321137]Why haven't these hero gun owners waltzed in to a massacre and stopped the guy?[/QUOTE]
Here's one
[url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-driver-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html[/url]
Problem is, they never turn into "massacres" because the "hero gun owners" actually take down someone before they kill more than a handful of people. Trust me, there's a lot more too.
Also most of the mass shootings have taken place in schools or other gun free zones, where targets are often completely defenseless and there might be a handful of security officers, likely not armed.
[QUOTE=RoboChimp;49321137]Why haven't these hero gun owners waltzed in to a massacre and stopped the guy?[/QUOTE]
[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/]Except they did, multiple times.[/url] The fact that most mass shootings happen in gun-free zones severely limits the people's self-defense capabilities, though.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;49321316]Hey Zyler I would like it if you replied to my extremely long post where I replied to all of your arguments on page 4 I put a lot of time into that and I would be interested on hearing your thoughts.
Here's one
[url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-driver-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html[/url]
Problem is, they never turn into "massacres" because the "hero gun owners" actually take down someone before they kill more than a handful of people. Trust me, there's a lot more too.
Also most of the mass shootings have taken place in schools or other gun free zones, where targets are often completely defenseless and there might be a handful of security officers, likely not armed.[/QUOTE]
A few years ago, an acquaintance of mine at RIT became a local hero when he stopped a break in by pulling out his AR15 and scaring the intruders away. I am curious myself as to how many times gun owners in a defensive position prevent more serious crimes from occurring. One of the intruders had a gun and who knows what would have happened if he didn't point back when they rounded the stairwell and found themselves face to face with an AR.
Lmao I can't deal with the fact that a mod can shitpost this heavily and still be a mod
I'm talking about this non funny shitposting
Hey if we're telling stories:
My friend in north druid hills was mugged by 4 guys about a month ago. Gave him his wallet, keys, phone, everything. As he was walking away one of them asked for his pin. He said "Nah man I'm not giving you that".
So they shot him 4 times. Once through the neck, one missed, one went through both thighs and severed a testicle, and the last one through his midsection, broke his pelvis, and lodged itself in his bladder.
Now I'm not saying "if he had a gun he'd have been fine" Hell, he'd never carry a gun, not that kind of guy.
What I'm saying is he cooperated, gave damn near everything, they'd won, he was no threat to anyone, [I]and they shot him anyway.[/I]
So don't any of you tell me that "they just want your stuff". You cannot know that, and making that assumption makes a [I]lot[/I] of assumptions about the person mugging you.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;49321588]Hey if we're telling stories:
My friend in north druid hills was mugged by 4 guys about a month ago. Gave him his wallet, keys, phone, everything. As he was walking away one of them asked for his pin. He said "Nah man I'm not giving you that".
So they shot him 4 times. Once through the neck, one missed, one went through both thighs and severed a testicle, and the last one through his midsection, broke his pelvis, and lodged itself in his bladder.
Now I'm not saying "if he had a gun he'd have been fine" Hell, he'd never carry a gun, not that kind of guy.
What I'm saying is he cooperated, gave damn near everything, they'd won, he was no threat to anyone, [I]and they shot him anyway.[/I]
So don't any of you tell me that "they just want your stuff". You cannot know that, and making that assumption makes a [I]lot[/I] of assumptions about the person mugging you.[/QUOTE]
Jesus christ thats practically a torturous execution. Is he crippled? He has to still be in the hospital.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;49321597]Jesus christ thats practically a torturous execution. Is he crippled? He has to still be in the hospital.[/QUOTE]
Amazingly, he's fine. Got quite a bit of recovery going on. Neck wound [I]barely[/I] missed an artery, thigh wound was a through and through and also barely missed important shit. They were really worried that some innerds were screwed up by the round to the bladder but he can fart so docs say that means shit still works. Cathoders suck though.
Cops also caught 3 of the 4 and got his stuff back just recently. Didn't catch the shooter though.
[QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;49321585]Lmao I can't deal with the fact that a mod can shitpost this heavily and still be a mod
I'm talking about this non funny shitposting[/QUOTE]
him and postal are mods that were elected from popularity contests (when it was a thing). So mods that weren't picked on whether they could mod well, but just because of a poll
[editline]15th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49319829]Whatever, there is clearly no convincing you people of any viewpoint other than your own.
Of course you would think my argument is retarded when all you guys do is sit in conservative echo chambers like /k/ all day blocking out any opinion.[/QUOTE]
this post is great
[editline]15th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;49321588]Hey if we're telling stories:
My friend in north druid hills was mugged by 4 guys about a month ago. Gave him his wallet, keys, phone, everything. As he was walking away one of them asked for his pin. He said "Nah man I'm not giving you that".
So they shot him 4 times. Once through the neck, one missed, one went through both thighs and severed a testicle, and the last one through his midsection, broke his pelvis, and lodged itself in his bladder.
Now I'm not saying "if he had a gun he'd have been fine" Hell, he'd never carry a gun, not that kind of guy.
What I'm saying is he cooperated, gave damn near everything, they'd won, he was no threat to anyone, [I]and they shot him anyway.[/I]
So don't any of you tell me that "they just want your stuff". You cannot know that, and making that assumption makes a [I]lot[/I] of assumptions about the person mugging you.[/QUOTE]
wow; this is a really humbling post.. just kinda slaps you in the face with reality
You don't trust the bad guy, it's that simple. Don't know why some people seem to think every mugger or home invader is either some single parent trying to raise food money for his family or some choir boy led astray by peer pressure. There are people who don't care about how sacred human life is as much as you do, accept that.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;49321329][url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/]Except they did, multiple times.[/url] The fact that most mass shootings happen in gun-free zones severely limits the people's self-defense capabilities, though.[/QUOTE]
If we ban all guns and make all places gun-free zones then there won't be any shootings. :downs:
In regard to that article, I hate that they state after each example that it's "unclear whether the shooter would have killed more people." If the shooters in Bernardino or Paris were shot/killed after killing only one or two people, then it would've been obviously "unclear whether the shooter[s] would have killed more people."
[editline]15th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49321946]him and postal are mods that were elected from popularity contests (when it was a thing). So mods that weren't picked on whether they could mod well, but just because of a poll[/QUOTE]
For the record, I think postal is a great mod. He's troll-ish, sure, but that's part of his charm. Is he an abusive mod, by whatever definition? Nah, I don't think so. I think he's just gone slightly crazy due to watching over the Rust subforum... but I trust his judgement fully.
Now Rusty... I don't ever see him anywhere unless it's a shitpost. I may be wrong, but for the last few years, that's all I've seen.
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49319829]Whatever, there is clearly no convincing you people of any viewpoint other than your own.
Of course you would think my argument is retarded when all you guys do is sit in conservative echo chambers like /k/ all day blocking out any opinion.[/QUOTE]
The irony of this, it's beautiful.
[QUOTE=Robman8908;49324345]
For the record, I think postal is a great mod. He's troll-ish, sure, but that's part of his charm. Is he an abusive mod, by whatever definition? Nah, I don't think so. I think he's just gone slightly crazy due to watching over the Rust subforum... but I trust his judgement fully.[/QUOTE]
(NSFW) [URL="http://i.imgur.com/dUVGPQx.png"]He's angry.[/URL]
[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49319829]Whatever, there is clearly no convincing you people of any viewpoint other than your own.
Of course you would think my argument is retarded when all you guys do is sit in conservative echo chambers like /k/ all day blocking out any opinion.[/QUOTE]
Banned but offering my reply for others insight.
Not a gun owner, considering one in the future, had one before. Don't go to /k/ or any firearms enthusiast message board. Have posted like twice in the Firearms thread on FP. Honestly it just comes to all the pro-gun control threads on FP being borne out of emotional appeals being countered by pro-gun rights posters putting out actual evidence and statistics that can back up their position. I live in a part of the country inundated with guns (rural Florida) and death by gunshot is about the least of my worries.
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