Kurt Russell on gun control - General

[QUOTE=abcpea;49312352]excuse me? americans have a RIGHT to bear arms, they dont need your communist safety lessons.[/QUOTE] I understand your sarcasm but it's not helpful. I agree America needs some more control but it's much easier to talk about them down. Solutions are decades away if started now, so I think it would be best to respect reality and statistics on the issue and enforce some sort of trading to give people respect for guns.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312354]Who is it benefiting to make guns harder to get?[/QUOTE] The kids who get murdered by angsty teenagers in their own classrooms. If guns are harder to get some mentally unstable kid is a lot less likely going to be able to shoot up a school. Think of it, if guns were more expensive some poor kid isn't going to be able to afford one to shoot up his school. If he needs a license to buy one, it's going to make it even harder still. I mean he might still be able to borrow a gun from his uncle or bringing a knife to school, but it still decreases the chance of him following his plans. He could use the black market, but I doubt some autistic teenager would have many black market connections. Also, some kid with a gun is obviously going to be able to do more damage than a kid with a knife.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;49312312]and it's easier said and taught than it is done. it's been proven time and again that 'an armed good guy' rarely stops 'an armed bad guy' in the case of mass shootings. the 'bad guy' is always ready and the 'good guy' never is. it's not much different in a home. sometimes it works, and if it worked for you i'm happy you're safe. but mostly, it doesn't.[/QUOTE] Based on what? You can't keep pulling these random statements out of nowhere like they're facts.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312314]So, what do you want to do about it? And I'll say this again like I did earlier in the thread, gun violence and violence in general has been going down in the past 12 years.[/QUOTE] I already stated what I want to do about it on the last page. But apparently you just ignored that while accusing me of not reading the thread even though you apparently did not either. I even said that gun violence has been declining, but domestic terrorism has not. Domestic terrorism is a growing threat, as has been cited by the FBI several times in the last few years. Domestic terrorism is far, far worse because it tends to be motivated, especially by political factors, where as most other gun violence was incidental. And that is only one piece of the puzzle. There is a lot that needs to be done to stop domestic terrorism and gun regulation is just a part of that, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it. Simply put, we cannot allow this to happen anymore. Stop being so obstructionist. In fact, here is a challenge to those of you in this thread: propose your own ideas of how to stop the growing number of mass shootings. All I've seen you folks do is say how we "shouldn't do x" or "shouldn't do y", so actually come up with a surefire plan and I will give it the consideration that you have neglected to give my side of the argument.

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;49312386]The kids who get murdered by angsty teenagers in their own classrooms. If guns are harder to get some mentally unstable kid is a lot less likely going to be able to shoot up a school. Think of it, if guns were more expensive some poor kid isn't going to be able to afford one to shoot up his school. If he needs a license to buy one, it's going to make it even harder still. I mean he might still be able to borrow a gun from his uncle or bringing a knife to school, but it still decreases the chance of him following his plans. Also, some kid with a gun is obviously going to be able to do more damage than a kid with a knife.[/QUOTE] Appealing to emotion. Maybe, instead of forcing the blame on guns we should force the blame on America's gigantic poverty problem and disgusting lack of mental healthcare, (which, by the way, people in my experience look down on the mentally unstable. It's not helping anything.) Yes, guns make it easier for this mentally unstable kid to shoot up his school, sure, but what seems the best way to go about it? Push the blame on guns, or fix the person? Which seems more beneficial?

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312409]Appealing to emotion. Maybe, instead of forcing the blame on guns we should force the blame on America's gigantic poverty problem and disgusting lack of mental healthcare, (which, by the way, people in my experience look down on the mentally unstable. It's not helping anything.) Yes, guns make it easier for this mentally unstable kid to shoot up his school, sure, but what seems the best way to go about it? Push the blame on guns, or fix the person? Which seems more beneficial?[/QUOTE] I'm not blaming guns, it's just one of the factors contributing to the school shooting problem. I think one of the biggest issues is the failure of the mental health system in the US. As well as 20% of the nation living below the poverty line.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49312406]I already stated what I want to do about it on the last page. But apparently you just ignored that while accusing me of not reading the thread even though you apparently did not either. I even said that gun violence has been declining, but domestic terrorism has not. Domestic terrorism is a growing threat, as has been cited by the FBI several times in the last few years. Domestic terrorism is far, far worse because it tends to be motivated, especially by political factors, where as most other gun violence was incidental. And that is only one piece of the puzzle. There is a lot that needs to be done to stop domestic terrorism and gun regulation is just a part of that, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it. Simply put, we cannot allow this to happen anymore. Stop being so obstructionist. In fact, here is a challenge to those of you in this thread: propose your own ideas of how to stop the growing number of mass shootings. All I've seen you folks do is say how we "shouldn't do x" or "shouldn't do y", so actually come up with a surefire plan and I will give it the consideration that you have neglected to give my side of the argument.[/QUOTE] Domestic terrorism is not relevant to gun laws, at all. Terrorists will get guns in any way that they can. You know what I want done? I think we need stricter background checks that focus heavily on mental status, along with written tests and various safety courses to help people along with respecting guns as I believe they are to be respected and not toyed with. Mental healthcare in America needs a serious overhaul. People should not be afraid to come forward to professionals with their issues, people that are mentally unstable need help (IE: all mass shooters that were not religiously or politically motivated, which even them too.). Poverty is probably the biggest factor needing fixing in America, but shit, I'll be honest with you. I don't even know where to start with that.

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;49312349]People aren't really opposed to gun control, they're opposed to poorly implemented gun control made by people who have little knowledge of firearms and their existing laws. The high capacity magazine and assault weapons bans did very little to deter the San Bernardino and Planned Parenthood shootings.[/QUOTE] Yet I never proposed anything like that. I even outright said bans don't appear to work. I live near a city (Chicago) that [I]did[/I] ban handguns and it had virtually no effect on their crime rates (which were already declining) because there were already so many guns on the streets. A major part of my proposed solution was simply expending resources on cutting down illegal gun sales. The other part was using a third party to regulate sales, once again like automobiles. I find it funny how people are so knee-jerk against any form of gun control and were instantly against what I proposed when I simply said we should take many of the existing laws for automobile licensing and apply them to guns. Despite all the people crying about that, you never see anybody complaining about the "automobile regulation being too strict". In fact, I've seen many FPers claim we should restrict cars more. If we put that much effort into restricting access to something that is downright necessary for living in much of the country, we could at the very least do the same for something that is not that necessary.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312354]Who is it benefiting to make guns harder to get?[/QUOTE] THE WHOLE COUNTRY! your question blows my mind

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;49312425]I'm not blaming guns, it's just one of the factors contributing to the school shooting problem. I think one of the biggest issues is the failure of the mental health system in the US. As well as 20% of the nation living below the poverty line.[/QUOTE] School shootings are very rare and overinflated by the media. Copy cat killers want their 5 minutes of fame and go out in a blaze of glory. Again, mentally unstable individuals. So many factors contribute to any of America's violence issues, but people in the media don't want to tackle that. All they want is a scapegoat. [editline]13th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rusty100;49312433]THE WHOLE COUNTRY! your question blows my mind[/QUOTE] Elaborate, don't just post some explosive snipe and expect me to go "Oh I see now." I'm willing to listen and talk, I'm not stubborn about my beliefs, I want to hear everyone's opinions on it, but when they're not very educated opinions it's pretty easy to discredit them.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312409]Appealing to emotion. Maybe, instead of forcing the blame on guns we should force the blame on America's gigantic poverty problem and disgusting lack of mental healthcare, (which, by the way, people in my experience look down on the mentally unstable. It's not helping anything.) Yes, guns make it easier for this mentally unstable kid to shoot up his school, sure, but what seems the best way to go about it? Push the blame on guns, or fix the person? Which seems more beneficial?[/QUOTE] it's pretty simple. guns make it easier for unstable people to kill more people. make it harder for unstable people to get guns, while also improving their mental health care. doing both will save lives. you can't always help someone unstable in time. it may to unnoticed. but taking away their access to firearms will help others. an unstable person can do damage without a gun. but not nearly as much.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312436]School shootings are very rare and overinflated by the media. Copy cat killers want their 5 minutes of fame and go out in a blaze of glory. Again, mentally unstable individuals. So many factors contribute to any of America's violence issues, but people in the media don't want to tackle that. All they want is a scapegoat.[/QUOTE] I agree, all I'm saying is you can't just ignore the fact that guns are one of the many factors involved in school shootings and mass shootings. While it's convenient to push this to the side and blame everything else. I think everything, including guns, should be factored into the equation.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312431]Domestic terrorism is not relevant to gun laws, at all. Terrorists will get guns in any way that they can. You know what I want done? I think we need stricter background checks that focus heavily on mental status, along [B]with written tests and various safety courses to help people along with respecting guns as I believe they are to be respected and not toyed with[/B]. Mental healthcare in America needs a serious overhaul. People should not be afraid to come forward to professionals with their issues, people that are mentally unstable need help (IE: all mass shooters that were not religiously or politically motivated, which even them too.). Poverty is probably the biggest factor needing fixing in America, but shit, I'll be honest with you. I don't even know where to start with that.[/QUOTE] I literally proposed the same thing. Written and physical tests provided by the ATF. We are thinking of the exact same thing. And domestic terrorism is related to gun laws. The San Bernardino shooters acquired their weapons legally, for example. Many radical groups in the US such as the KKK or right wing militias acquired their weapons legally. I do believe people treat guns as toys instead of with respect. Even Maverick posted a picture of his super-duper cool AK because he apparently [I]really needed to show that too us[/I] for [I]reasons.[/I] If he actually respected his weapon, well, as a weapon instead of a toy to be shown off, he wouldn't have had the need to post a picture or even mention what kind of gun it was. The same applies to a car: if you treat your car like a car, you probably won't tell people what kind of car it is or show them pictures or anything unless asked. But if you want to show it off as a toy to impress, you will do both those things. That is why I am so adamant about many gun owners just being delusional vigilante wannabes who are using firearms to give themselves confidence. If you actually use a gun for an intended purpose, like hunting or sport shooting, you wouldn't even mention it to anyone because you wouldn't feel the need too. And like I said, there are many ways to help combat this issue. Gun control is just one method to help reduce violence, and I believe it is long overdue.

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;49312444]I agree, all I'm saying is you can't just ignore the fact that guns are one of the many factors involved in school shootings and mass shootings. While it's convenient to push this to the side and blame everything else. I think everything, including guns, should be factored into the equation.[/QUOTE] I'm not ignoring it, I've already proposed safety classes and better background checks as well as increasing mental healthcare and tackling poverty issues in America.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49312406]I already stated what I want to do about it on the last page. But apparently you just ignored that while accusing me of not reading the thread even though you apparently did not either. I even said that gun violence has been declining, but domestic terrorism has not. Domestic terrorism is a growing threat, as has been cited by the FBI several times in the last few years. Domestic terrorism is far, far worse because it tends to be motivated, especially by political factors, where as most other gun violence was incidental. And that is only one piece of the puzzle. There is a lot that needs to be done to stop domestic terrorism and gun regulation is just a part of that, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it. Simply put, we cannot allow this to happen anymore. Stop being so obstructionist. In fact, here is a challenge to those of you in this thread: propose your own ideas of how to stop the growing number of mass shootings. All I've seen you folks do is say how we "shouldn't do x" or "shouldn't do y", so actually come up with a surefire plan and I will give it the consideration that you have neglected to give my side of the argument.[/QUOTE] there's a lot of weasel wording going on here when it comes to what's meant by "mass shooting" Things like the san bernardino shooting, the sandy hook massacre, and the planned parenthood shooting are not interconnected events. Trying to tie the perpetrators together is just ridiculous. There is no single magic bullet fix that would have prevented all three, not even the complete expulsion of firearms from the united states.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;49312440]it's pretty simple. guns make it easier for unstable people to kill more people. make it harder for unstable people to get guns, while also improving their mental health care. doing both will save lives. you can't always help someone unstable in time. it may to unnoticed. but taking away their access to firearms will help others. an unstable person can do damage without a gun. but not nearly as much.[/QUOTE] I have to agree a lot of unstable people seem very normal and when they finally lose their shit and go on a killing spree. A lot of their friends and family will often say "he acted like he was normal" or "he was a quiet kid". So I think we can only do so much when it comes to fixing the mental health side of things. [editline]14th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312453]I'm not ignoring it, I've already proposed safety classes and better background checks as well as increasing mental healthcare and tackling poverty issues in America.[/QUOTE] I wasn't really suggesting you, yourself ignore it. You seem quite reasonable to me, but others do like to push it under the rug.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49312451]I literally proposed the same thing. Written and physical tests provided by the ATF. We are thinking of the exact same thing. And domestic terrorism is related to gun laws. The San Bernardino shooters acquired their weapons legally, for example. Many radical groups in the US such as the KKK or right wing militias acquired their weapons legally. I do believe people treat guns as toys instead of with respect. Even Maverick posted a picture of his super-duper cool AK because he apparently [I]really needed to show that too us[/I] for [I]reasons.[/I] If he actually respected his weapon, well, as a weapon instead of a toy to be shown off, he wouldn't have had the need to post a picture or even mention what kind of gun it was. The same applies to a car: if you treat your car like a car, you probably won't tell people what kind of car it is or show them pictures or anything unless asked. But if you want to show it off as a toy to impress, you will do both those things. That is why I am so adamant about many gun owners just being delusional vigilante wannabes who are using firearms to give themselves confidence. If you actually use a gun for an intended purpose, like hunting or sport shooting, you wouldn't even mention it to anyone because you wouldn't feel the need too. And like I said, there are many ways to help combat this issue. Gun control is just one method to help reduce violence, and I believe it is long overdue.[/QUOTE] Okay well we're on the same page then, I respect weapons and believe we should have stricter gun control. But my point about domestic terrorism is they have various ties to pretty extensive black markets in America. The FBI and ATF have a hard enough time stopping them from acquiring weapons Elaborating on terrorist groups, they'll get weapons however they want, especially any sort of fanatical religious groups. Strawbuyers/purchasers are very popular in that regard, which I can say the ATF should monitor singular people buying extensive amounts of guns (more than 30-50 a month) and look into them [editline]14th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rusty100;49312440]it's pretty simple. guns make it easier for unstable people to kill more people. make it harder for unstable people to get guns, while also improving their mental health care. doing both will save lives. you can't always help someone unstable in time. it may to unnoticed. but taking away their access to firearms will help others. an unstable person can do damage without a gun. but not nearly as much.[/QUOTE] This is a very fragile thing to argue, not every unstable person will snap and commit a mass shooting, they are very rare as it is in the U.S. You can't know when something will happen until it happens, it's almost paradoxical. I still believe limiting law abiding civilians' freedoms just to appeal to emotion and hypothetical/potential shootings can be problematic. It just doesn't sit right with me I can agree there is only so much you can do when it comes to mental healthcare, so teach the stable ones to respect their weapons and keep it out of their kids'/relatives hands unless they're around. And on the subject of adult unstable individuals, written mental tests and studies from psychologists can maybe help keep them from acquiring weapons.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;49305582]so the solution to that is to keep adding to that already massive pile? the notion that 'we already have too many so the more we add the safer we are!' is pretty insane because like, how is that working out for you? pretty good huh?[/QUOTE] Yes, lets take away the rights of millions of people to defend themselves and stop thousands of muggers and criminals from getting shot each year so these one off mass shooters don't get to kill two or three more people. Sounds like a fair trade to you doesn't it?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49312456]there's a lot of weasel wording going on here when it comes to what's meant by "mass shooting" Things like the san bernardino shooting, the sandy hook massacre, and the planned parenthood shooting are not interconnected events. Trying to tie the perpetrators together is just ridiculous. There is no single magic bullet fix that would have prevented all three, not even the complete expulsion of firearms from the united states.[/QUOTE] I will concede that you are correct about that. Not even mental illness truly connects them. Still, I don't think that should make us throw our hands up and give up on the whole thing. America cannot continue on its current course. If the shooting alleviate, then further action isn't required. But until then, we cannot allow ourselves to do nothing. We have already tried doing nothing for a year now and all that has occurred is more mass shootings and terror events.

The problem is, putting restrictions on guns or banning them won't stop people who want to kill people from killing people, they won't say "oh dang, guns are pretty tightly restricted, there goes my plan to kill 130 people in an urban area!" They'll get there guns through a friend who's dad leaves them around the house, or through the cartels who put dozens of untraceable guns into the US every day, and then boom, however many people are dead. And if the person can't get ahold of a gun, he/she will find different methods, like a pressure cooker bomb, or a sword. I'm sure with some connections its as easy as depositing a thousand bucks into the right persons account to get you a AK regardless of where you live in the world. What really needs to happen is that we need to tackle the roots of what causes a lot of these mass shootings, which is radicalism, bullying, mental disorders, gangs & cartels, poverty, abuse, and so many other reasons that could be listed.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;49312576]I will concede that you are correct about that. Not even mental illness truly connects them. Still, I don't think that should make us throw our hands up and give up on the whole thing. America cannot continue on its current course. If the shooting alleviate, then further action isn't required. But until then, we cannot allow ourselves to do nothing. We have already tried doing nothing for a year now and all that has occurred is more mass shootings and terror events.[/QUOTE] but gun deaths [I]are[/I] going down this one extremely high profile kind of crime might be going up(though to be honest I'm not entirely convinced that's true), but overall crime [I]is[/I] declining all of this rhetoric reminds me of the reactionary fear mongering I'd come to expect from the right there will always be bad things in the world and no amount of forcing other people to give stuff up will ever change that as long as you live

[QUOTE=Rusty100;49312176]lets get one thing clear almost all break-ins are not in cold blood - nobody wants to kill you. you're not important. they just want your stuff. i am arguing, right now, that your life is more important than your belonings. which is insane that i'd have to even argue that. and that pulling a gun on intruders that almost definitely just want to take your things, and don't want to upgrade their potential charge to homicide, will hugely increase the chances of you getting killed. 'wow you're just going to let a robber take your stuff rusty? what a pussy' yeah. it's called insurance and valuing my life and not doing something stupid that would get me killed. and even if you don't have insurance, you have a life. don't jump out with a gun. you're probably going to get shot.[/QUOTE] You do NOT assume anyone breaking into your home has good intentions, EVER. They have violated the threshold of your property, broken laws to get in, and you DO NOT know what they are going to do. They could be just trying to steal something, or they could be there to rape and murder your family. Hell, it could start off as a robbery and end up turning into a rape and murder. You legitimately don't ever know, and I'm not one to put trust into someone actively committing a crime. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders[/url] This happened in my god damn home state. Two theives, who were planning on robbing from a fairly well off family, ended up murdering and raping most of the family. While I doubt any guns would have changed the situation (the father was asleep on the porch, and I doubt at the speed that the criminals both worked that they would have been able to be fought off by the wife and kids). However, this is an example of thieves deciding they want more on the fly. This robbery wasn't even planned for all that long, [I]it was planned that day[/I]. After not being satiated with what they had already taken, they started raping the children and wife, and then brutally murdered them. With what started off as a [I]robbery[/I]. [B]You don't ever assume that someone breaking into your home does not want to kill you[/B], [I]ever[/I]. If you do, you'll end up dead or maimed. It legitimately baffles my mind that there are individuals who are so trustworthy of people who break into their home, that they'll never do you any harm. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT, WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT SORT OF TRUST INTO SOMEONE WHO'S ALREADY TAKEN THE EFFORT TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOUSE. It's just completely mind boggling.

[QUOTE=bdd458;49312744]You do NOT assume anyone breaking into your home has good intentions, EVER. They have violated the threshold of your property, broken laws to get in, and you DO NOT know what they are going to do. They could be just trying to steal something, or they could be there to rape and murder your family. Hell, it could start off as a robbery and end up turning into a rape and murder. You legitimately don't ever know, and I'm not one to put trust into someone actively committing a crime. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders[/url] This happened in my god damn home state. Two theives, who were planning on robbing from a fairly well off family, ended up murdering and raping most of the family. While I doubt any guns would have changed the situation (the father was asleep on the porch, and I doubt at the speed that the criminals both worked that they would have been able to be fought off by the wife and kids). However, this is an example of thieves deciding they want more on the fly. This robbery wasn't even planned for all that long, [I]it was planned that day[/I]. After not being satiated with what they had already taken, they started raping the children and wife, and then brutally murdered them. With what started off as a [I]robbery[/I]. [B]You don't ever assume that someone breaking into your home does not want to kill you[/B], [I]ever[/I]. If you do, you'll end up dead or maimed. It legitimately baffles my mind that there are individuals who are so trustworthy of people who break into their home, that they'll never do you any harm. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT, WHY WOULD YOU PUT THAT SORT OF TRUST INTO SOMEONE WHO'S ALREADY TAKEN THE EFFORT TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOUSE. It's just completely mind boggling.[/QUOTE] Doesn't mean you have to gun down the people who are robbing you. Most of the time they just wanna steal your shit and run. Best thing to do is remove yourself from the situation and contact the authorities, rather than escalating the situation by pulling a gun on some robbers.

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;49312791]Doesn't mean you have to gun down the people who are robbing you. Most of the time they just wanna steal your shit and run. Best thing to do is remove yourself from the situation and contact the authorities, rather than escalating the situation by pulling a gun on some robbers.[/QUOTE] If you're living with a family, you don't have that liberty. Unless you're saying you'd just run for it and assume your kids would follow after? there are a lot of situations where someone wouldn't be able to immediately flee [editline]14th December 2015[/editline] again, when you look at how guns are used defensively, they're almost never used to kill the assailant in the [I]vast[/I] majority of instances they're just a deterrent. As you've said, most robbers don't break into homes with the intent to kill. So if they see a gun pointed at them, they're probably going to scram. That's what the data shows.

[QUOTE=Darth Ninja;49312791]Doesn't mean you have to gun down the people who are robbing you. Most of the time they just wanna steal your shit and run. Best thing to do is remove yourself from the situation and contact the authorities, rather than escalating the situation by pulling a gun on some robbers.[/QUOTE] No one said that, please stop saying the same tired rhetoric over and over. In fact I'm pretty sure no one in this thread said anything like they were going to "gun down" anyone. Having a gun for home defense is all anyone is talking about. I won't deny there are actually some people out there with home invasion fantasies but you would be delusional to think they are the majority. You still didn't actually reply to him in a relevant manner either. Maybe most of the time criminals [b]do[/b] just want to steal your shit and run, but the problem is, what if they don't?

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;49312873]No one said that, please stop saying the same tired rhetoric over and over. In fact I'm pretty sure no one in this thread said anything like they were going to "gun down" anyone.[/QUOTE] I know no one said they were going to gun down anyone. If you use a weapon for self defence, some times people aren't going to run away just because you draw a gun on them. Drawing a gun, even if its just to scare robbers off isn't always going to work and can backfire pretty badly if you aren't prepared to shoot. This is why its better to fuck off out of there if its an option.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;49312436]School shootings are very rare and overinflated by the media. Copy cat killers want their 5 minutes of fame and go out in a blaze of glory. Again, mentally unstable individuals. So many factors contribute to any of America's violence issues, but people in the media don't want to tackle that. All they want is a scapegoat. [editline]13th December 2015[/editline] Elaborate, don't just post some explosive snipe and expect me to go "Oh I see now." I'm willing to listen and talk, I'm not stubborn about my beliefs, I want to hear everyone's opinions on it, but when they're not very educated opinions it's pretty easy to discredit them.[/QUOTE] theres been over 160 school shootings in the us alone since 2000. thats just about 10 a year. thats not at all "very rare" and i would even go so far as to say its underreported by the media. who you claim is just looking for a scapegoat, then say "mentallyt unsta ble individuals" , which sounds like a scapegoating to me

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;49312931]theres been over 160 school shootings in the us alone since 2000. thats just about 10 a year. thats not at all "very rare" and i would even go so far as to say its underreported by the media. who you claim is just looking for a scapegoat, then say "mentallyt unsta ble individuals" , which sounds like a scapegoating to me[/QUOTE] If overall crime (including gun violence) is going down, along with increased gun restriction, but the regularity of school shootings is going up, then what do you think the problem is? Sounds to me like [b]guns are the scapegoat, feel good solution[/b], not mental health.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;49312931]theres been over 160 school shootings in the us alone since 2000. thats just about 10 a year. thats not at all "very rare" and i would even go so far as to say its underreported by the media. who you claim is just looking for a scapegoat, [B]then say "mentallyt unsta ble individuals" , which sounds like a scapegoating to me[/B][/QUOTE] so what is the real cause then? hint: it isn't the guns because firearms technology (at least what has been available to civilians) hasn't changed dramatically since the 1950s, and mass school shootings are a relatively new phenomenon. [t]http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/78105c8/2147483647/resize/652x%3E/quality/85/?url=%2Fcmsmedia%2F81%2Fa3%2F33af15a04f1794d7e4be9056879b%2F141120data-shootings-graphic.png[/t]

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