The Bioshock Infinite We Never Got - Crowbcat - General

[QUOTE=redBadger;51298498]first two games gave you tons of tools and options and let me go to town? Say what?[/QUOTE] "in comparison" it is undeniable that you have more freedom in bioshock 1/2 when it comes to the combat then you do in infinite

[QUOTE=Pen Straw;51298547]I liked it but that dlc has to be one of the worst cash grabs in history. The only nice part was seeing Suchong die. That Jack Ryan model is unforgivable.[/QUOTE] I didn't even get to play the DLC, most people seem to say it's the best part of Infinite. What makes it so bad?

I found Infinite to be basically this: boring as hell; not good, not really bad, but still really boring and what isn't helping is how it strayed so far away from the first two games and had such a convoluted story strong-armed onto it. In addition, I barely got the same sci-fi horror vibes that the first two games had (no, the Tear bullshit and the Big Daddy-esque Handymen weren't enough). On the narrative side of things, I say that the George Lucas type of logic that states that things should oppose one another (i.e: Rapture vs Columbia, sea vs sky, for example) instead of contrast [I]and[/I] be entirely different from what the other installments had is what really hampered the whole series by then besides the multitude of revisions that took place prior. Overall, just another big-name game that really got hyped to hell and back.

When I first played it I really didn't enjoy it. I forced myself to complete the game and when I figured out what the plot [I]was[/I] I just thought it was dumb. And then I found out about all the marketing of a game that just didn't exist. I'd really love to have a dev do like they did with Duke Nukem Forever, and dissect these trailers and promotional material to tell us what was real, scripted, realish, fudged, or just plain bullshit made for the trailer.

[QUOTE=NoobSauce;51298469]Imagine a Bioshock game where there's virtually little to no boss fights, no hacking minigame, no quicksaving, no stocking up on health kits, little exploration, only 2 weapons at your disposable at every time, and has only 1 ending. [/QUOTE] bioshock is already a system shock game where there's virtually little to no boss fights, a watered down hacking minigame, respawning that makes saves worthless, no survival horror mechanics, little exploration, no weapons degradation, and has only 2 endings. the cycle of fucking life

[QUOTE=RikohZX;51298561]I didn't even get to play the DLC, most people seem to say it's the best part of Infinite. What makes it so bad?[/QUOTE] Oh man, where do I even begin? The entire plot-- THE WHOLE DLC-- was contrived, it felt like a HUGE Bioshock fanfic. It didn't feel real, it didn't have any heart into the storyline. If there was even one to begin with. The DLC tried way too hard to appear canon and connected to the first game. That had a lot of problems when they tried that, it was like they shoved mismatching puzzle pieces together. First thing that bothered me was how it glorified Elizabeth. She was a great character to me in Infinite, so I thought it would be awesome to see her and Booker again in the DLC in some weird alternate reality in Rapture. The premise of the game was that "Elizabeth broke the circle,"; no no no, that's not canon. Thankfully, Ken Levine stated that no one had to accept the DLC as canon, so there is an upside. Anyways, realistically, she didn't do shit. Jack Ryan was the one to end the circle. She was glorified to hell and back for no reason except to cause more chaos. What hurt me a lot was the fact that the DLC hardly acknowledged the second game, aside from a few brand names being in the second. There's a number of plotholes in the franchise now because of Levine. [b]BUT[/b], since this whole game turned into a quantum reality of multiple universes living together and anything can happen, I guess even plot discrepancies can have answers if you want them to? You can pull out any answer you want and have it be canon and no one can prove you wrong otherwise. There wasn't enough meat on this dlc's bones I think to equal itself to the first Bioshock which it was trying to be. It felt empty and contrived. It was a far reach for them to try and connect the third and first game but it was just a pointless mess. The end was not satisfying... not like the first game in the least. It was, all in all, playing on the popularization of Bioshock 1. I rambled, I'm sorry, :( Here's Jack's model in game: [t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/0/0e/Jack_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140330081243[/t] WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

The variety of guns and plasmids really blew too. I get there might have been some technical limitations having these gigantic explorable open areas all connected by skyways but at least make sure there's a variety of gameplay styles to pick as you go through it all.

[QUOTE=Dr McNinja;51298715]The variety of guns really blew too.[/QUOTE] The one that you get rid of straight away. The one that shoots fast. The one that shoots slow. The one that shoots wide. The one that shoots far. The one that shoots explosions. The differences between the Comstock forces and Vox forces weaponry wasn't really super great. None of them had a unique gimmick or anything like the upgraded weapons usually got in Bioshock 1 and 2. Or ammo types for certain enemies.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51298724]The one that you get rid of straight away. The one that shoots fast. The one that shoots slow. The one that shoots wide. The one that shoots far. The one that shoots explosions. The differences between the Comstock forces and Vox forces weaponry wasn't really super great. None of them had a unique gimmick or anything like the upgraded weapons usually got in Bioshock 1 and 2. Or ammo types for certain enemies.[/QUOTE] I remember someone telling me the Vox weapons were better before, but from what I remember of playing, when the game is almost nothing but Vox weapons in the later half of the game and especially the endgame it feels a whole lot less efficient and requires upgrading the weapons all over again if I remember right.

What really is amazing is that even with so much shit getting cut or changed, that stupid fucking retarded ghost fight somehow made it into the final version. 3 fucking times.

[QUOTE=SirJon;51298025]is there any other industry which is so full of shit as the video game industry is?[/QUOTE] Aw jeez don't even get me started about how fucking shitty, shady and greedy the animation industry can be

oh my god. i've been talking about this topic for years. someone finally made a fucking video on it this actually depresses me. if you feel like hurting yourself tonight, watch this demo from e3 2011 [video]https://youtu.be/6WUt5dEMt_Y[/video]

[QUOTE=RikohZX;51298744]I remember someone telling me the Vox weapons were better before, but from what I remember of playing, when the game is almost nothing but Vox weapons in the later half of the game and especially the endgame it feels a whole lot less efficient and requires upgrading the weapons all over again if I remember right.[/QUOTE] Most of the automatic weapons later on in the game had so little differentiation that I didn't care what I picked up, so long as I had enough ammo.

[QUOTE=Pen Straw;51298668] Here's Jack's model in game: [t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/0/0e/Jack_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140330081243[/t] WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY[/QUOTE] don't know why you're getting so upset over this when its obviously just a placeholder face.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;51297702]In hindsight I'm pissed that the game we got pretty much shackled us with a character who felt like nothing more than Ken Levine's Mary Sue. If only she were just some love interest or just not in the game at all. Just keep it to Bioshock in the Sky, and I would be happy as fuck. Also we never got any thing interesting with Tears. No crazy Music tears, or even full on Visual tears, like Communist Columbia, or even Columbia under Nazi support/occupation. Least we got a nice city. Not that we can explore it or anything.[/QUOTE] elizabeth isn't a mary sue, she's naive and fucked in the head. not a very good combination either.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51298860]elizabeth isn't a mary sue, she's naive and fucked in the head. not a very good combination either.[/QUOTE] She's pretty normal and polite for a woman who's been locked up in a tower (i.e: isolated from society) since her [I]whole childhood[/I].

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51298870]She's pretty normal and polite for a woman who's been locked up in a tower (i.e: isolated from society) since her [I]whole childhood[/I].[/QUOTE] Makes sense if you're raised that way and never knew anything else. Also in lategame she isn't normal and polite at all, she's a basketcase, [sp] and manipulates booker into letting her kill him.[/sp]

[QUOTE=milktree;51298835]don't know why you're getting so upset over this when its obviously just a placeholder face.[/QUOTE] well yeah but still. it makes me retarded just looking at it. even pointless NPCs in Infinite look better than he does, and he's the big boy of the entire first game. [editline]2nd November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51298860]elizabeth isn't a mary sue, she's naive and fucked in the head. not a very good combination either.[/QUOTE] YES, I agree with this completely. The more I thought about it, I would have loved to see some legitimate weaknesses from her after being locked up her whole childhood. They could have made her socially awkward as fuck, but instead we got an unrealistic, cutesy girl.

[QUOTE=NoobSauce;51298469]Imagine a Bioshock game where there's virtually little to no boss fights, no hacking minigame, no quicksaving, no stocking up on health kits, little exploration, only 2 weapons at your disposable at every time, and has only 1 ending. That's why I don't consider this game an addition to the series. It doesn't feel like Bioshock and doesn't really expand upon the foundation Bioshock has established with the previous games. Even with the plasmids, Infinite was just super boring imo and just felt like another generic shooter. Really the only thing I liked about Infinite was the Burial at Sea DLC, which really says something about the main game.[/QUOTE] The ironic thing is all the distant changes that led to the Bio Infinite we know, is all because Irrational WANTED to not be too similar with the "Bioshock Formula"

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;51298468]i've got 91 hours into this game on steam, just for the gorgeous graphics and artstyle. most of my time i've spent just looking around at the level scenery, and all details they put in all the assets that make the gameworld itself look really rich. but the actual main story that's seperate of the game world, the one about you going to columbia to find some disney girl and go though some epic plothole (or better said "tears") filled adventure to save her with a bunch of lighthouses at the end ? you can't deny it isn't absolute bullshit, especially if you played 4 times through it can't be bothered to list all the flaws since it's way and way too much to talk about, but this video does a really good job at covering most of it if you're still in denial (story part starts around 14:10); [video]https://youtu.be/VdNhwb7iuI4[/video][/QUOTE] Maybe I am in denial but I think it's more that most of the criticisms that people have don't bother me like it bothers them. The game's (incorrect) use of the multiverse theory doesn't bother me, Elizabeth's tears being remarkably convenient almost to the point of being contrived (at times) doesn't bother me, and the total lack of player choice in the narrative didn't bother me because the narrative justified it. I don't even care about some of the gameplay complaints like the lack of a hacking minigame or the near total lack of exploration. I didn't go into the game expecting any of that, so I wasn't disappointed. I do agree with some complaints though. - The portrayal of racism really was quite tame and simplistic and should have gone much further to deserve the acclaim it got. What we got did the bare minimum to have an effect, but that's about it. - The 2 weapon system was stupid and unnecessary. - The appreciable difference between Vox weaponry and Comstock weaponry was basically meaningless. - The siren fight and everything having to do with that part of the game/story should have been cut. Completely. - Higher difficulties turned fights into bullet sponge bullshit and rewarded taking cover and running away more than creative use of plasmids and weapons. Especially 1999 mode which I will never do again. But other than that, I really didn't have any problems with the game. I enjoyed the story, I enjoyed the gameplay, I enjoyed (some of) the weapons, I enjoyed the visuals, I enjoyed the ending, and I enjoyed the DLC. Yeah, it asks me to suspend disbelief and accept some contrivances for the sake of the story they were telling, but it never bothered me. Hell, even most of the complaints I DO have I can easily overlook. Maybe the story/gameplay [B]is[/B] bullshit. I just can't get myself to see it that way.

I honestly don't give a fuck that the "hacking" minigame is gone. They streamlined it to shit in Bioshock 2, and it was better for it because having to solve a fucking pipe puzzle in the middle of combat to hack a drone ruined the pacing. The hacking dial thing used in 2 worked much better as you could hack in the middle of a fight without being taken out of the fight. It also took no time at all. It was a contrived feature left in to pad the experience just enough to make it look like it was deeper than it was. It served little purpose as it was so easy to break in 1, just a few top end tonics and the hardest safes in the game became childs play to hack.

I'm on my second playthrough and still have no fucking clue what is happening. If this game had a novelization it'd read like it was written by a squirrel with ADHD

[QUOTE=Pen Straw;51298668][t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/0/0e/Jack_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140330081243[/t][/QUOTE] [t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/2/21/Jack222.png/revision/latest?cb=20160312074439[/t] Why didn't you post how it actually looks in engine?

[QUOTE=Dr. Doughnut;51298985][t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/2/21/Jack222.png/revision/latest?cb=20160312074439[/t] Why didn't you post how it actually looks in engine?[/QUOTE] They did to hide that monstrosity :(

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51298880]Also in lategame she isn't normal and polite at all, she's a basketcase, [sp]and manipulates booker into letting her kill him.[/sp][/QUOTE] Except that[sp]"forcing someone to drown so that a mad man doesn't exist in any timeline" and "manipulating someone into killing themselves for no reason"[/sp]are two entirely different things. Back to the Mary Sue and "not polite" bits: she's disgustingly perfect; means well, idealistic, pretty book smart, really kind to kids, has a power that just shits entirely on the superpower lottery, etc, and yet she has no downsides to her character at all to make up for these traits. Only times she does make some questionable decisions is[sp]killing Daisy Fitzroy[/sp]and[sp]taking Comstock's place[/sp]but even then[sp]the former was to protect Fink, and the latter was because she was tricked into believing shit, and this event just so happened to be a bad future.[/sp]

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;51298468] but the actual main story that's seperate of the game world, the one about you going to columbia to find some disney girl and go though some epic plothole (or better said "tears") filled adventure to save her with a bunch of lighthouses at the end ? you can't deny it isn't absolute bullshit, especially if you played 4 times through it [/QUOTE] I don't get people saying tears are straight plotholes. They are explained in the story well enough to offer the things that they do. When you actually go into one of the other worlds I noticed something important. Most of the time the tears that get open up are just portals to reveal something or to step through, what happens when you skip into another universe you can see that Elizabeth opens the tear to the point where it extends into the whole world and, by what I gather, basically smashes two universes together and thus the disassociation that happens with people that have been killed in one and were alive in another.

[QUOTE=hippowombat;51298959]I'm on my second playthrough and still have no fucking clue what is happening. If this game had a novelization it'd read like it was written by a squirrel with ADHD[/QUOTE] It's not difficult to understand, it's not like the game goes "none of this was real." It just sort of tries to throw a multiverse theory at you which it'd been hinting at over the course of the game, and uses your character's perspective as Booker as a means of both linking you to it and hiding the truth until the curtains are raised. [editline]2nd November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr. Doughnut;51298985][t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/2/21/Jack222.png/revision/latest?cb=20160312074439[/t] Why didn't you post how it actually looks in engine?[/QUOTE] Yeah, that looks a lot better. If there was one problem Infinite had, it's that outside of Elizabeth, it.. didn't do human faces much justice. Especially those kids. [i]Jesus Christ.[/i]

It also, in a way, confirms that everyone's unique play-through is canon which I find a neat little bonus that they elude to.

Bioshock infinite always felt like a huge wasted potential tbh. I am not saying that its a bad game, but all the great things that was provided in the game's settings seems up end up achieving almost nothing in the end. Like the tears, they could've done many crazy things with an actual time travelling section or other alternative dimension stuffs, but yet they were just press a button to get cover / get supply gimmick in the game. Also I was really disappointment with little thing is there for us to explore in Columbia. But after all, it's still a pretty good game for its time, despite not living up the name to Bioshock 1/2 imo.

[QUOTE=milktree;51297887]half of it is because everyone just loves reposting "the average bioshock player" video and ripping on that stupid bell ringing scene[/QUOTE] bioshock infinite got [I]jerked off[/I] for the first two months after it came out by half the internet and all of the mainstream games media outlets even after they severely cut down on features they advertised in the trailers and turned the thing into an entirely linear story-based shooter with an okay plot that definitely feels lacking in some aspects. In particular, I remember everyone's favorite Cliffy B saying something like that it was funny that Roger Ebert died just before we got "True Art" in a videogame in BSI. I didn't dislike the game all that much when I first played it. I thought the usage of multiple timelines and whatnot was something that hadn't really been tried before, the visuals were at times spectacular, and the shooting was slick and competent. But the more that I dwelled on it and the more I looked at what we could've gotten, the more I just feel like what we got is kind of a bummer looking at the big picture.