[QUOTE=RikohZX;51299001]
Yeah, that looks a lot better. If there was one problem Infinite had, it's that outside of Elizabeth, it.. didn't do human faces much justice.
Especially those kids. [i]Jesus Christ.[/i][/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;4uFTFf4328U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uFTFf4328U[/video]
never forget
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;51298935]Maybe I am in denial but I think it's more that most of the criticisms that people have don't bother me like it bothers them. The game's (incorrect) use of the multiverse theory doesn't bother me, Elizabeth's tears being remarkably convenient almost to the point of being contrived (at times) doesn't bother me, and the total lack of player choice in the narrative didn't bother me because the narrative justified it. I don't even care about some of the gameplay complaints like the lack of a hacking minigame or the near total lack of exploration. I didn't go into the game expecting any of that, so I wasn't disappointed.
I do agree with some complaints though.
- The portrayal of racism really was quite tame and simplistic and should have gone much further to deserve the acclaim it got. What we got did the bare minimum to have an effect, but that's about it.
- The 2 weapon system was stupid and unnecessary.
- The appreciable difference between Vox weaponry and Comstock weaponry was basically meaningless.
- The siren fight and everything having to do with that part of the game/story should have been cut. Completely.
- Higher difficulties turned fights into bullet sponge bullshit and rewarded taking cover and running away more than creative use of plasmids and weapons. Especially 1999 mode which I will never do again.
But other than that, I really didn't have any problems with the game. I enjoyed the story, I enjoyed the gameplay, I enjoyed (some of) the weapons, I enjoyed the visuals, I enjoyed the ending, and I enjoyed the DLC. Yeah, it asks me to suspend disbelief and accept some contrivances for the sake of the story they were telling, but it never bothered me. Hell, even most of the complaints I DO have I can easily overlook.
Maybe the story/gameplay [B]is[/B] bullshit. I just can't get myself to see it that way.[/QUOTE]
I dunno if you're trying to make an argument, but none of this is a case for why the game is good this is just you saying you couldn't be fucked to care about any of the problems it had
Which is fine for the record just I guess don't be surprised when other people can
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51298999]Except that[sp]"forcing someone to drown so that a mad man doesn't exist in any timeline" and "manipulating someone into killing themselves for no reason"[/sp]are two entirely different things.
Back to the Mary Sue and "not polite" bits: she's disgustingly perfect; means well, idealistic, pretty book smart, really kind to kids, has a power that just shits entirely on the superpower lottery, etc, and yet she has no downsides to her character at all to make up for these traits. Only times she does make some questionable decisions is[sp]killing Daisy Fitzroy[/sp]and[sp]taking Comstock's place[/sp]but even then[sp]the former was to protect Fink, and the latter was because she was tricked into believing shit, and this event just so happened to be a bad future.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]She makes him think he needs to die to change things, that's manipulation. Drowning someone is killing them. Wanting to prevent the past is a whole other can of psycho worms. [/sp] Also it's eerie as fuck when [sp]she kills the songbird [/sp]. Also what exactly is so bad about Comstock? Compared to [sp]how Elizabeth ran Columbia[/sp], he's not that bad at all. What exactly is so evil about taking and utilising [sp]technology from another dimension[/sp]
Also there a plenty more fucked moments, such as [sp]opening up a tear to a natural disaster to threaten booker ("What exactly are you going to do to stop me?")[/sp], and [sp]stealing the airship. What she turned Columbia in to when she took Comstock's role; this twisted and oppressive place with those scary af wardens, thousandfold worse than how Comstock ran the place [/sp]. She may start as a Mary Sue, but she's far from one by the end of the game.
[sp]i said also a lot of times in this post[/sp]
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;51298807]Aw jeez don't even get me started about how fucking shitty, shady and greedy the animation industry can be[/QUOTE]
Animation is the industry where animators more often than not get jack shit for pay since their work can be and very often is outsourced to near slave wage Korean studios. Where show creators are paid one meager lump sum of cash for their idea, and never see a penny of any of the ad revenue, merchandise sales, or any other type of royalties their IP makes. Where one of the most promising IPs of the early 2000s, Constant Payne, was permanently shelved solely because the creator was an open advocate for the unionization of writers.
At least when the video game industry has shit like the EA Wives scandal it's not seen as the norm in the industry.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;51299021]still not that different from the final game, tbh
its just that almost all the scenes got rearranged into different maps, idk why anyones nostalgic over this[/QUOTE]
The sense that we lost a far grander game. What was supposed to be a grand Steampunk adventure in the sky, turned into a Dimension-Traveling/Time Travel mess. With everything revolving around Elizabeth.
You can see this if you look through the trailers. Initially, Elizabeth was the mystery girl, the hook that brought you into Columbia and that was it. But as time went on, she got more and more attention, to the point where Ken was outright demanding on his twitter that people stop drawing porn of her.
In the final product, we have a cool mult-rail combat system pulled back to one track through a small arena. We have a story of a city coming apart with a strange background of tears, replaced with tears being used as excuses and simple ways of getting around problems. The tears themselves aren't even interesting, it's just the same reality with a slight difference. Comstock was just a simple villain before he was [sp]Booker's Baptised Old Version[/sp]
We had cut enemies too.
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/4/4d/Electro-gloves.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160625133906[/t]
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/e/ec/Snakeoil.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140524052958[/t]
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/1/16/Resurrector.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160626151012[/t]
And then the "Merged", which would have been the result of the Columbians interacting and being near Tears too many times.
[t]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/8/81/MergedCitizen.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150805160436[/t]
[t]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/c/c7/TwoMergedHeads.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150805161806[/t]
[t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/f/f4/Mergaeded.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140606192152[/t]
Overall, we lost the grand Steampunk adventure feel. Replaced with Ken wanting so badly to up the ante, and to keep it from being too much like the first two Bioshocks. The only result was a game that wasn't Bioshock.
Add to the fact that we got a horde mode dlc, and a Two-Parter DLC that [sp]makes it so all the shit in Bioshock Infinite was just a prequel to the first Bioshock and it was all set up by Elizabeth. Even when Ken said that Infinite would not be related to the first two Bioshocks at all.[/sp]
Watching the video again, I feel so much sadness. The promise of a grand Steampunk FPS, gone. The end result, a mess everyone stroked as the greatest game ever.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;51299120]ken levine talked about how the elizabeth and songbird duo is meant to be seen as abusive, songbird was always [url=http://www.pcgamer.com/bioshock-infinites-elizabeth-shaped-by-ken-levines-experiences/]her captor, not her caretaker[/url]
her finally killing songbird wasnt meant to be seen as "creepy", especially with how booker reacts to it, youre kidding yourself here mate[/QUOTE]
okay that's one point out of the 7 points I made in my post, and it's the weakest one. gj
god all the frustration is coming back it's ALL COMING BACK
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51299166]god all the frustration is coming back it's ALL COMING BACK[/QUOTE]
For you frustration, for me sadness.
[t]http://wallup.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/10/169907-steampunk-city-artwork-concept_art-fantasy_art.jpg[/t]
I just want a AAA game set in this kind of world that isn't going to cut back like Bioshock Infinite, and not boring like The Order.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;51299148]she got more and more attention, [B]to the point where Ken was outright demanding on his twitter that people stop drawing porn of her.[/B][/QUOTE]
When was this?
If this actually happened: I'm dying of laughter right now.
[editline]November 2nd, 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;51299148]*Merged concept art*[/QUOTE]
Amusement turned into abstract dread in just a minutes notice.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;51299182]the dlcs still continue to paint her as a hero, she literally is the cause of why jack went to rapture
while you might find her creepy, the game itself doesnt seem to be painting her that way[/QUOTE]
I don't find her creepy, I find her deplorable, not likable due the actions she takes and the attitude she has. I never played the DLCs, and by the sounds of it I'm happy I didn't?
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51299199]When was this?
If this actually happened: I'm dying of laughter right now.[/QUOTE]
yeah I remember that... I can't believe he said it. His words were like "Elizabeth is like my daughter, stop drawing porn of her"
The way I'd describe it all is that Bioshock Infinite is not a smart game. It's a game that pretends to be smart, and succeeds at it. It's the style of game making that has been spearheaded and mastered by the lord bullshit man David Cage himself.
You take a garbage story, throw in enough concepts like multiverses or magical bullshit to make it a complete clusterfuck to understand so it's hard for anyone to be 100 percent sure your story is making any sense at all. Sprinkle in some waifu bait (Elizabeth for Infinite, Ellen Page for Beyond Two Souls) and then make her sad. Then bam, you got yourself a legion of fans that will defend your pretentious masterpiece as being just too smart and complex for our baboon minds to understand. It's an art form.
Anyway you wanna enjoy something with multiple universes and shit that doesn't suck? Watch Rick and Morty.
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/rickandmorty/images/e/e7/Vlcsnap-2015-01-31-04h33m02s175.png/revision/latest?cb=20150131123326[/t]
It's great because it's not pretentious, it's [I]actually[/I] smart, and it's comprehensible. Also no waifu bait bullshit.
might of been explained but last time I played it was at release, anyway why was Elizabeth a massive social butterfly when she had been in the tower with no interaction with others her entire life
[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;51299206]I don't find her creepy, I find her deplorable, not likable due the actions she takes and the attitude she has. I never played the DLCs, and by the sounds of it I'm happy I didn't?[/QUOTE]
Well the entire first part of Burial at Sea basically devolves into [sp]a secret test by Elizabeth of this alternate Rapture's Booker, and ultimately letting him die in a reenactment of Bioshock 1's trailer by manipulating everything to lead to his death. Plus, she abandons a Little Sister there that this Booker had specifically been trying to save.[/sp] She realizes how badly she fucked up in part 2 and goes back to fix things while knowing she can no longer rely on her powers, but yeah.
[QUOTE=aussiedropbear;51299241]might of been explained but last time I played it was at release, anyway why was Elizabeth a massive social butterfly when she had been in the tower with no interaction with others her entire life[/QUOTE]
i'd say her situation of being super sheltered while also having an infinite window to outside worlds lead to a yearning to be around people rather than a fear. She was obviously educated and not super alone all the time too, there had to be at least some human interaction.
or like butthurter said, disney princess logic.
I will always feel terrible whenever someone brings up Bioshock Infinite. I remember being so hyped for this game when I was younger, everyday on the way to school and back, I would watch the e3 trailers for this games, and the commentary as well sometimes. I would look forward to all of the news and tiny bits of information that I could get my hands on. I thought this would be game of the year, even game of the decade, oh boy wasn't I fucking delusional? I usually never preordered games but this was one of those games I had to make an exception for. When I got my hands on it I still enjoyed the game I got, but I was so disappointed, I remember anxiously waiting for the e3 scenes to show up, and getting more nervous as the game continued on as I started to realize it would most likely never show up. Watching Matthewmatosis' video helped me look at the game in a different light, and that's how younger me learned never to get too hyped for anything, or you'll just end up getting really disappointed. I still wish we could've gotten the e3's interpretation of Bioshock Infinite
I got Bioshock Infinite free with a Graphics card I brought. I haven't played any other Bioshock game and found it to be an OK shooter at worst. I think I would have a different opinion if I did play Bioshock 1/2 first.
[QUOTE=Pen Straw;51298668]
[t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/0/0e/Jack_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140330081243[/t]
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYY[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;jPb4oryoRMw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPb4oryoRMw[/video]
I think one of the biggest indicators that the game got massively scaled back and redesigned very late in development were the boys of silence. Within a year, they went from being a walking enemy that encouraged stealth by listening to footsteps/sound cues, and were going to be featured in multiple levels (as explained in the Heavy Hitters video), to just being a stationary security camera that, despite having no eyes and having massive horns to amplify their hearing, spot the player by catching him in a spotlight that magically emits from their masks. Then they somehow disappear without explanation. Nothing about them is explained.
[video=youtube;U09JW5r3F10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09JW5r3F10[/video]
"Think of the cameras from Bioshock 1, but think of them walking around and moving and looking for you"
And then they end up exactly like the cameras from Bioshock 1
[QUOTE=Antimuffin;51297845]I remember Facepunch going ape-shit about how well the story was written and how there were hints and foreshadowing all the way through.
And now everybody dislikes it. The only thing that I really disliked in the game was the combat. The story, atmosphere and characters were really good imo.[/QUOTE]
The story was far too political for its own good, instead of letting the player decide what was done for right or wrong, you were basically forcefed a morality tale with no way to [I]really[/I] influence it or make a change in the predetermined courses. The characters were borderline cliches, cliches with color and some depth, but still cliches nonetheless. The gunplay and tonics were severely by-the-numbers. Basically the game Levine wanted to deliver was three years over budget and never going to happen, and Burial adds insult to injury by literally hammering home that the characters in the story had no chance at lives of their own, ever, at all, which is pretty much the opposite of the modern gaming environment.
What you got instead of a take on the consequences of manifest destiny was essentially a very well acted demo. About half the game was/is missing, and it shows.
[QUOTE=Yogkog;51299958]I think one of the biggest indicators that the game got massively scaled back and redesigned very late in development were the boys of silence. Within a year, they went from being a walking enemy that encouraged stealth by listening to footsteps/sound cues, and were going to be featured in multiple levels (as explained in the Heavy Hitters video), to just being a stationary security camera that, despite having no eyes and having massive horns to amplify their hearing, spot the player by catching him in a spotlight that magically emits from their masks. Then they somehow disappear without explanation. Nothing about them is explained.
[video=youtube;U09JW5r3F10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09JW5r3F10[/video]
"Think of the cameras from Bioshock 1, but think of them walking around and moving and looking for you"
And then they end up exactly like the cameras from Bioshock 1[/QUOTE]
FUCKING THIS BULLSHIT! I would have been pissing my pants if they went with the original idea with the Boy of Silence, as well as lore to what these things even are.
But nope, just stationary with no attacks, and a cheap jumpscare at the end.
Fuck you Ken.
I think when I got the game (preordered, which this game also taught me to never do again), I wasn't really expecting it to be mind blowingly amazing, but nonetheless I was still hyped for it. I enjoyed the graphics, the first part of the game despite being heavily scripted and linear.
I think the game really bogged down during the second half. The unused potential with the tears, the guns that you had to stick with because you've upgraded them more than the others, and just the gameplay in general just sort of sucked after a while. It wasn't necessarily hard, but the enemies toward the endgame felt a lot more like bullet sponges (especially those guys wearing the huge jackets with shotguns, from what I remember), THAT ONE BOSS you had to fight THREE TIMES, and I felt like the tonics I would use only occasionally to get myself out of the boring slump of just shooting dudes.
I remember during the finale I would use some tonic combo that made me invincible while I was on the skyrails, and set people on fire when I jumped on them. I just kept doing this because either I wouldn't be able to kill the enemies fast enough because my guns sucked, or they would slaughter me once there were more than a few.
And then of course the unused potential of some enemies that got utterly shafted, like the Boys of Silence. The story I was sort of paying attention to in the beginning just lost all interest on me with the introduction of more and more tears, because it was clear at that point they could pull any sort of thing and claim it still fits in with the idea of parallel universes.
I just wished the game could be more fighting president mechs with chain guns and grappling around a huge floating city in the sky, instead of having to sit in a corner and camp enemies because a couple shots is all it takes to kill my shield. For what its worth, I had enjoyed the story, the graphics, and the small amount of creativity you could get with the tonics. But in the end I guess I can say I got the original Bioshock + XCOM out of it.
[QUOTE=Yogkog;51299958]I think one of the biggest indicators that the game got massively scaled back and redesigned very late in development were the boys of silence. Within a year, they went from being a walking enemy that encouraged stealth by listening to footsteps/sound cues, and were going to be featured in multiple levels (as explained in the Heavy Hitters video), to just being a stationary security camera that, despite having no eyes and having massive horns to amplify their hearing, spot the player by catching him in a spotlight that magically emits from their masks. Then they somehow disappear without explanation. Nothing about them is explained.
[video=youtube;U09JW5r3F10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U09JW5r3F10[/video]
"Think of the cameras from Bioshock 1, but think of them walking around and moving and looking for you"
And then they end up exactly like the cameras from Bioshock 1[/QUOTE]
I liked how they were in one mission near the end of the game and never came back.
Probably late on this, but I wanted the DLC's to feel more like the classic Bio 1/2 Rapture, gameplay wise. And not "weeeeell, let's put you in Rapture, but just keep Infinite's gameplay, so it's the same mechanics just different setting!" It was awesome to see Rapture before the ADAM addicts/Rapture Civil War, but it was still the "Booker, catch!" gameplay. I do understand they were doing the alternate dimensions thing, but it still feels cheap.
In fact, I was excepting the plasmids and weapons to be exactly the same as the first games but just have a little more polish. Though this is all probably just my nostalgia talking. All the games made me cream anyway so whatever.
[QUOTE=redBadger;51300239]I liked how they were in one mission near the end of the game and never came back.[/QUOTE]
A lot of the coolest stuff in the final version of Bioshock was either underutilized, background stuff, or overused so much that it drifted from cool to obnoxious. Tacking on a Handyman, Fireman, or Patriot onto almost every other fight mid to end game pretty much ruined them for me.
There are too many examples of games and films that had so much potential but got redesigned and scaled back and ended up being mediocre, idk who to blame this happens all the time and it's just sad.
so do we have a good look behind the scenes or what, cause the game changed quite a lot
also a good thing to keep in mind is that the demos don't really represent the whole thing
it could easily have been all scaled back and all that stuff was removed because it never worked to begin with, being just scripted for public demos
[QUOTE=redBadger;51300239]I liked how they were in one mission near the end of the game and never came back.[/QUOTE]
Admittedly said mission was one of the better parts since its the only point in the game where:
-You're on your own for once
-You've actually got to conserve every shot since there's virtually none to be found
-You can't pull stuff out of space time anymore, and run the actual risk of melee being your only choice
-You're fighting swarms of deranged psychotics up close which is a nice change over blue soldiers or red soldiers. You can even sneak past them if you're careful.
-It's a genuinely unsettling and creepy area because you have nobody to rely on or tell you what do.
[QUOTE=Hat-Wearing Man;51302925]Admittedly said mission was one of the better parts since its the only point in the game where:
-You're on your own for once
-You've actually got to conserve every shot since there's virtually none to be found
-You can't pull stuff out of space time anymore, and run the actual risk of melee being your only choice
-You're fighting swarms of deranged psychotics up close which is a nice change over blue soldiers or red soldiers. You can even sneak past them if you're careful.
-It's a genuinely unsettling and creepy area because you have nobody to rely on or tell you what do.[/QUOTE]
So basically it's the only part that feels like a Bioshock game.
i enjoyed all of the bioshock games and will likely play them again in the future (including infinite)
Infinite is my favorite in the series
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