JonTron releases a statement about the controversy - General

[QUOTE=mrkaki;51982860]The point is we'll never truly know since he never got to finish his sentence, so why are we defaulting it to the worse case scenario?[/QUOTE] because he was given chances to clarify himself and responded by accusing his debate opponent of baiting him, repeatedly making statements that imply racial inferiority his defense is that he [I]might[/I] not have meant what he kept implying that isn't a good defense

That wasn't really an apology, seems like he was just trying to justify the awful things he said. But I was still gonna watch his videos anyways as long as the politics stay disconnected from his content.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;51982736]yea but im racist in your books and you are still decent friends with me dont act like calling him racist is the be all end all[/QUOTE] I reckon everyone's a bit racist tbh [editline]20-Mar-17[/editline] Maybe racist isn't the right term, unconscious bias might be better.

[QUOTE=Slim Charles;51982929]I reckon everyone's a bit racist tbh[/QUOTE] speak for yourself

I am speaking for myself, I have just noticed in my 22 years on this earth, being someone of mixed race and throughout all the occupations I've had; student, kitchen hand, laborer, soldier and oil/gas fitter that most people (if not all) have some racist tendencies, even if it's relatively minor things like semi-believing stereotypes that could be contrived as positive.

[QUOTE=mchapra;51982960]speak for yourself[/QUOTE] I think he's talking about unconscious biases residing within everyone, which there is pretty good evidence for. That's usually what people mean when they say something like that at least. Although I disagree that we should call those people racist, imo, it's a very loaded word that calls people like klansmen to mind, even if you're using it in a different sense. edit: whups, ninjad lol

[QUOTE=Slim Charles;51982929]I reckon everyone's a bit racist tbh[/QUOTE] everyone has racial biases, yes [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] that racist video that jon tron mentioned in his video actually talks about this [video=youtube;oJfbKj1vYsQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJfbKj1vYsQ[/video] I'm not convinced he's actually watched it TBH

Figured he lost his cool and started talking trash under pressure. I think people need to learn to accept different points of view without demonizing them, or hand-waving them as objectively wrong. This is an issue most anywhere, definitely facepunch as well. I can only hope this whole affair has taught at least some people this, that would be some silver lining.

[QUOTE=AbioFlesh;51982782]I think Sky made the best comment there: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YBaTdkc.png[/IMG] (I'm late, whatever.) I feel like this whole debacle, as well as Jon not really elaborating on the points or false statistics, is only deepening that left vs right/us vs them mentality. Jon himself said that the reason why we our political discourse is the way it is is because we refuse to communicate on ideas. However, the response to this entire mess shows how that isn't going to change anytime soon. All it really did was reinforce this idea that the right are victims to be big-bad liberals trying to silence (criticize) them, regardless of what they say.[/QUOTE] I think PewDiePie made the best comment [img]http://i.imgur.com/3SXPnax.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;51983047]I think PewDiePie made the best comment [img]http://i.imgur.com/3SXPnax.png[/img][/QUOTE] is it a reference to something?

[QUOTE=SirJon;51983037]Figured he lost his cool and started talking trash under pressure.[/QUOTE] This may make it understandable as to why he said what he said but by no means does it justify it.

[QUOTE=zizzleplix;51983053]Sure it may be understandable as to why he said what he said but by no means does it justify it.[/QUOTE] You're right, I'm not trying to say that.

[QUOTE=paul simon;51983050]is it a reference to something?[/QUOTE] yes

[QUOTE=paul simon;51983050]is it a reference to something?[/QUOTE] Filthy Frank and crew reference [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfIOBLr1NDU"]this scene from 22 Jump Street[/URL] a lot, for some reason

I'm glad he finally spoke up on this matter. It was disheartening to watch the fans yell into the void.

I'm just going to call a spade a spade and say that anyone who can so easily embrace views of racial purity and white superiority is probably a terrible person. That said, I already apply Barthes'* death of the author to some of the 20th century's most influential architects and designers, like Albert Speer, so I think his work can be viewed in a vacuum. And, to be fair, most of us probably watch Tom Cruise films, so I'm not sure Jon is totally different. But, yes, he's an idiot and a racist who has openly voiced support for white purity. That shouldn't be swept under the rug or forgotten. It should be kept in mind, but I don't think it makes him literally Hitler. Now, if he starts herding people into camps... *That should have been Barthes from the beginning. My mistake.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;51982499]I can watch his videos without guilt regardless? He has bad, misinformed, and ill-expressed opinions, but his videos make me laugh. I'm going to continue watching him regardless of your petty little guilt trip. Him coming out and at least trying to explain what he meant is a lot better than doubling down and continuing with that line of thought.[/QUOTE] continuing with his line of thought is exactly what he did though. all he did was restate that white racism exists (something that is easily palatable to everyone who isn't extremist left) and doesn't even touch on the "rich blacks" or racial purity statements he made bitches wasn't trying to guilt trip anyone. he said that this video doesn't explain anything and was made as an out for jon's fans to go "oh see he put out a video clarifying his statements so fuck your guilt trips" when it didn't do anything of the sort. so he was completely right in that regard the content of the "clarification" doesn't matter because its simple existence is enough for his fans

[QUOTE=Slim Charles;51982929]I reckon everyone's a bit racist tbh [editline]20-Mar-17[/editline] Maybe racist isn't the right term, unconscious bias might be better.[/QUOTE] Reminds me of this song from Avenue Q. [video=youtube;RovF1zsDoeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM[/video]

Well now I regret putting that image up yesterday. :(

I can't take him seriously at all in this. He kept telling us to not read into the shit he said, or that the outrageous things he said he thought was outrageous as well, or that he was just bad at debating and the stuff he said was misconstrued BUT he never once clarified any one of the outrageous statements he made lmao. And I know for a fact he knows exactly which statements he needs to clarify because everyone has been shoving it in his face. Like I'm willing to believe that you're just a fuckawful debater and that you participated in that debate while you were high in cocaine, but you gotta fuckin tell me what you actually meant afterwards. Otherwise I'll just think you're full of shit.

I still won't forgive him, he's still an asshole in my eyes but then again I wasn't watching his videos anyway. I mean it's pretty obvious that he gets his info from conservative websites and such because of his complete misinformation about Mexicans. My Mother's side is very Mexican and the fact that he says a majority of Mexicans come over to collect benefits and reclaim Mexico is so fucking stupid and racist. I've yet to meet a Mexican who acts this way. Also he's deflecting so fucking hard. "people getting mad at my statistics, b-but look at what other people say!" And he sounds so unnatural when he's saying "of course black people have racial discrimination". Finally, if he wants to think everyone is "Fellow-Americans" why does he constantly blame shit on Blacks, Mexicans, and Muslim immigrants? Sounds like he's actively divulging into tribalism.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51982644]This is, ultimately a non-apology to me tbh. I'm glad he addressed what happened but it still seems insincere. Or like it's one of those situations where they're not really sorry, they're just sorry that they got caught. I don't care if people watch his videos tbh, but I'm still not interested in either him or his content anymore.[/QUOTE] I don't think this was supposed to be an apology video in the first place, seemed like he was only trying to explain his points more. He didn't really explain anything though lol

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;51983584]I don't think this was supposed to be an apology video in the first place, seemed like he was only trying to explain his points more. He didn't really explain anything though lol[/QUOTE] Can you really explain racism? People hold these views because they've been indoctrinated to, there's no rationality or logic that justifies it. They're born of fear and ignorance, and trying to introduce reason only shows just how unreasonable they are.

Even if his views might be off, I believe he was being sincere here. Some of you are saying "The things I said weren't actually what I meant" is just a copout or an excuse but it's a real thing that happens, especially to people who aren't experienced in these kinds of conversations.

[QUOTE=Larikang;51982581]This really doesn't convince me. "I said a lot of stuff that could be misconstrued." Like... "Rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites." That's seems pretty unambiguous to me. "These days we're taught to think in racial or ethnic categories... and this has played a big hand in what has gotten our country into the volatile state it is in." But it's pretty obvious from this video and the stream that he himself clearly thinks in ethnic categories and is concerned about "unfair" treatment of white race.[/QUOTE] It's not like he just completely pulled that rich blacks vs poor whites comment out of his ass, there are real published articles from "reputable" organizations that say the same thing like[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/23/poor-white-kids-are-less-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/"] this[/URL]. It's also easy to take that comment and assume the implication is "therefore black people are inherently inferior" but there are half a dozen other possible followups that didn't get made due to jon's lack of debate skill, obviously. This is a big example of what people are misconstruing. edit: thinking a little bit about what i consider to be the most obviously egregious comments about the gene pool, i think some of the video clarifies what he was attempting to do was compare it to the "cultural appropriation"/similar shit that was gaining some traction not too long ago about protecting and hoarding culture. a kind of "well if X is considered a 'real issue' why isn't white genocide", though perhaps not agreeing with either.

[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;51983902] Some of you are saying "The things I said weren't actually what I meant" is just a copout or an excuse but it's a real thing that happens.[/QUOTE] I'm aware that's a real thing that happens. My point was that he didn't clarify after the fact, when he's had plenty of time to think and elaborate. Like I said, I would readily believe that if he made at least an ounce of effort to explain the things he said.

[QUOTE=El Periodista;51983739]Can you really explain racism? People hold these views because they've been indoctrinated to, there's no rationality or logic that justifies it. They're born of fear and ignorance, and trying to introduce reason only shows just how unreasonable they are.[/QUOTE] I didn't say otherwise.

I do really get the impulse of wanting to defend Jon and give him the benefit of the doubt, because for a long time, he was the favorite for a lot of people. When you aren't aware of his personal life or his political opinions, you just see a goofy and funny guy who you really can't help but love, and you wanna keep loving him when you become a big fan. I know that's how I've felt with the other times Jon has said or done stupid stuff in the past. No one wants to believe that they adore and idolize a person who really supports bad idealogies. Especially when its the kind of celebrity that a lot of people formed a deep connection to. Unfortunately though, he's frankly said things that would be very hard to take back beyond completely retracting them or admitting he was completely wrong. And even then that wouldn't be enough for a lot of people to forgive him, understandably so. I personally do genuinely think what he feels doesn't come out of a place of hate, but definitely from a place of complete misunderstanding and ignorance. I don't really think there's anything wrong with continuing to watch his content as long as he keeps it well divorced from his political opinions, which he pretty much has. As long as your reason for watching him isn't "I like watching him because he is racist", theres not much to truly feel bad for. I could probably point you to a ton of films that are well loved but feature actors who have ended up being pretty bad people. On the same token though, I think even his staunchest fans need to agree, or at least understand, that some of what he's said was downright heartbreaking for a lot of people.

Probably the single biggest reason I'm very willing to give Jon a pass is that he, as far as we know, hasn't acted on any of the ideas that seem to have been presented during the Destiny conversation. IMO, actions speak louder than words. The fact that Jon seems to be a thoroughly decent person when it comes to how he treats people gives me pause at taking those statements at face value.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51984377]Probably the single biggest reason I'm very willing to give Jon a pass is that he, as far as we know, hasn't acted on any of the ideas that seem to have been presented during the Destiny conversation. IMO, actions speak louder than words. The fact that Jon seems to be a thoroughly decent person when it comes to how he treats people gives me pause at taking those statements at face value.[/QUOTE] Horrible people can still interact one on one with respect and kindness, you don't have to to have an asshole personality to be a bad person.