JonTron releases a statement about the controversy - General

He should've addressed his comments straight on rather than give half-assed excuses to try and muddle his comments and pretend he's actually more moderate. I understand the whole double standard thing, and yes most of us here believe many things are wrong with modern "SJW" fanatics of the left, but this guy believes his alt-right talking points are mainstream and that anything he says that is actually racist is just misconstrued by the boogieman SJW/media. This video doesn't do much other than tell those who defended him "thanks" with a half-assed attempt to capture his other fans by pretending what he said wasn't that radical. Disappointing.

[QUOTE=Dunsparce;51984275]I'm aware that's a real thing that happens. My point was that he didn't clarify after the fact, when he's had plenty of time to think and elaborate. Like I said, I would readily believe that if he made at least an ounce of effort to explain the things he said.[/QUOTE] He said that he realized some of the things he said were quote "outrageous", and he clarified what his main stance was, even clarified that one of the things he said on stream (which I believe was "Racism doesn't exist" but I might be misremembering) was not something he actually believed in. I don't know what more you want short of him going through a list of everything he said on stream.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;51984410]Horrible people can still interact one on one with respect and kindness, you don't have to to have an asshole personality to be a bad person.[/QUOTE] I don't know about that. Beliefs that don't show up in action aren't very deeply held beliefs, and that goes both ways. Usually the phrase is used in the other direction. People go out and speak a big game about how good they are, but then fail to live up to their speech when it comes to their actions. So people say that "actions speak louder than words." I agree with that. If you think lying is wrong, but you lie to people all the time, the you probably don't really think lying is wrong, at least not very strongly. In the same way, if someone goes out and says some very white nationalist rhetoric one time, but then never acts on those statements, then they clearly don't hold those beliefs very strongly. Based on everything I've seen from his personal life, from his direct actions to his friend's responses to this controversy, tells me that he hasn't acted out any of the negative statements that he said during that interview. He seems to be a decent person who goes out of his way to be good to others. He also doesn't seem to act in a prejudiced way. So I have a choice. Do I assume that his true character is best described by 3 or 4 statements in an emotional live streamed debate, or do I assume that his true character is best described by his action up to this point and the opinions of the people who know him best? I fall on the latter description.

[QUOTE=Larikang;51982581]and is concerned about "unfair" treatment of white race.[/QUOTE] Good? Unless you're implying strictly being concerned about whites and nothing more, I fail to see how being concerned about people being unfairly treated is a problem. Racism goes both ways, and while my grandfather wasn't lynched by the KKK or put in an internment camp for his ethnicity or anything like that, I'm tired of seeing casual "fuck white people lol" "white people ruined everything" and "all I want for christmas is a white genocide" racism. I don't walk around judging anyone else for their race, sexuality, gender, etc., but because I'm a straight white brunette male with blue eyes I'm apparently the scum of the earth and the nation is okay with that verdict.

[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;51984421]He said that he realized some of the things he said were quote "outrageous", and he clarified what his main stance was, even clarified that one of the things he said on stream (which I believe was "Racism doesn't exist" but I might be misremembering) was not something he actually believed in. I don't know what more you want short of him going through a list of everything he said on stream.[/QUOTE] no all he had to do was elaborate on his rich blacks and racial purity comments but he couldn't even manage that

[media]https://twitter.com/HarmfulOpinions/status/843459946092085248[/media]

[QUOTE=Jund;51984527]no all he had to do was elaborate on his rich blacks and racial purity comments but he couldn't even manage that[/QUOTE] When he said "Things I didn't mean that I realize were outrageous" I assumed he was referring to those since they were brought up the most. Maybe he could've touched on it but I think he addressed the most important parts in the video.

[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;51984575]When he said "Things I didn't mean that I realize were outrageous" I assumed he was referring to those since they were brought up the most. Maybe he could've touched on it but I think he addressed the most important parts in the video.[/QUOTE] it was four and a half minutes of him talking about how people can be racists to whites, which no rational people denied nor gave a fuck about

[QUOTE=Snapster;51984561][media]https://twitter.com/HarmfulOpinions/status/843459946092085248[/media][/QUOTE] I swear to god we're going to see that tweet unironically used by WSJ or some other news group.

[QUOTE=Jund;51984610]it was four and a half minutes of him talking about how people can be racists to whites, which no one besides the usual crazies denied nor gave a fuck about[/QUOTE] I'm confused. Isn't the whole controversy about what his stance was in the debate? So why is a video where he explains that he didn't feel like he properly represented his stance (i.e. the whole controversy), clarifying what his actual stance was, admitting the things he said was shitty, and also admitting he was a shitty debater, how is this not relevant to the whole thing?

[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;51984575] Maybe he could've touched on it but I think he[B] addressed the most important parts in the video[/B][/QUOTE] I dunno, I think the most important part was "it doesn't matter if they assimilate to the culture because then they'd enter the gene pool" But what do I know, maybe the most important part was Samantha Bee or whatever.

i still like him

[QUOTE=Bernie Buddy;51984667]I'm confused. Isn't the whole controversy about what his stance was in the debate? So why is a video where he explains that he didn't feel like he properly represented his stance (i.e. the whole controversy), clarifying what his actual stance was, admitting the things he said was shitty, and also admitting he was a shitty debater, how is this not relevant to the whole thing?[/QUOTE] when does he admit the things he said were shitty? "i said a lot of stuff that can be misconstrued in a lot of ways"? "things are being extracted from this that i know i don't think"? "any time anyone brings up an uncomfortable statistic, you freak out"? was the "rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites" an uncomfortable statistic? was "if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually" not what he actually thinks? unless you have tourettes you don't "accidentally" say racist shit during a debate

this is like, nothing new. he's been spouting alt right bullshit on twitter for ages now and even appeared on breitbart [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=El Periodista;51983088]I'm just going to call a spade a spade and say that anyone who can so easily embrace views of racial purity and white superiority is probably a terrible person. That said, I already apply Foucault's death of the author to some of the 20th century's most influential architects and designers, like Albert Speer, so I think his work can be viewed in a vacuum. And, to be fair, most of us probably watch Tom Cruise films, so I'm not sure Jon is totally different. But, yes, he's an idiot and a racist who has openly voiced support for white purity. That shouldn't be swept under the rug or forgotten. It should be kept in mind, but I don't think it makes him literally Hitler. Now, if he starts herding people into camps...[/QUOTE] i liked jontron's vids just as much as the next guy but its not as easy to just go "eh its fine people are allowed different opinions" or whatever other self serving garbage when the guy whose videos you're watching probably wouldn't hesitate to kick you out of your home if he could

[QUOTE=Jund;51984758]when does he admit the things he said were shitty? "i said a lot of stuff that can be misconstrued in a lot of ways"? "things are being extracted from this that i know i don't think"? "any time anyone brings up an uncomfortable statistic, you freak out"? was the "rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites" an "uncomfortable statistic"? was "if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually" not what he actually thinks? unless you have tourettes you don't "accidentally" say racist shit during a debate[/QUOTE] "Anything in the stream that can be considered weird or off-putting, I probably agree with you that they were" And again, people can say things they don't mean, even if it makes them look bad, under stress.

I thought it was entirely clear from the get-go that Jon is a bit of a dummy when it comes to these topics and, entering a debate with an experienced debater about contentious topics he not only knows little about, but has the edgier, contrarian mindset with to boot wasn't the best idea. Despite some of the unfortunate phrases that came out of his mouth, he made it pretty clear in this video that he doesn't believe the more unfortunate interpretations of those phrases, and that he's going to stop talking about politics now. Isn't that what you guys wanted? I don't get this mentality of "no this isn't good enough until he apologizes for his racism and does the standard 50 lashes he's scum." I especially don't get how people can still think he believes that races outside of whites are inherently inferior - even if his fumbled words implied that, he's saying pretty clear as day, right now, that it's not the case. Are we just not believing him for the sake of being able to be angry about it some more?

[QUOTE=Talvy;51982778]At least this top rated comment is loved by Jon: [T]https://i.imgur.com/8pUtDgr.jpg[/T] It's too bad the algorithm still places worse posts above.[/QUOTE] How did a black dude like Sky listen to Jon rant for like 30minutes about how the black race is genetically predisposed to crime and other bad shit, and go "hmm yes it's just le SJW boogeyman hating Jon" WHAT

He's just telling people not to call him hitler nor blindly defend him like the rest of the comments. I don't even know what happened to that comment. Instead we have this at the top: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zoe8ARN.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;51984891]How did a black dude like Sky listen to Jon rant for like 30minutes about how the black race is genetically predisposed to crime and other bad shit, and go "hmm yes it's just le SJW boogeyman hating Jon" WHAT[/QUOTE] Sky's a friend of Jon. He said in a tweet that he was willing to give Jon a chance to explain himself and not immediately throw him under the bus (mainly cause that happened to him once). Sky wanted to see if Jon honestly believed the statements he said and said that stuff out of genuine malice or if he just ended saying some shitty stuff out of misled ignorance and being "in the heat of the moment". If it was the former then Sky said he could not be friends with Jon anymore.

[QUOTE=Talvy;51984905]He's just telling people not to call him a nazi nor blindly defend him like the rest of the comments.[/QUOTE] It's fucking bizarre because Sky is usually the type to really speak his mind. That's what his content is now, it's hime basically vlogging and sometime playing league. Heck, he did 20-30 minute response video to iDubbbz's comedic use of "niggerfaggot" from the perspective of a black gay guy... Sky is honestly the last dude on youtube I'd expect to NOT speak up about an issue that directly affects him, his race, or the LGBTQ community. [URL="https://twitter.com/SkyWilliams"]Check out his twitter, I'm not going to do a screencap of todays discussion about LGBTQ content because his twitter is mostly him talking about these issues from his unique perspective.[/URL] I really, really REALLY feel like Sky is either holding back because of (ex?)friendship or the fact it'd damage his career as a much smaller youtuber... Or he just didn't watch the long ass debate. Like really I don't know how anyone can watch that debate and go "hmm yes he's just taken out of context!"

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51984874] I don't get this mentality of "no this isn't good enough until he apologizes for his racism and does the standard 50 lashes he's scum" [/QUOTE] Aha, is it really so ludicrous to ask for an apology? Because I find it more ludicrous that you guys are absolutely fine without one (this video was not an apology). And no, I don't want 50 lashes, I want explanation. Not something as loose as "if you disagreed with it, i probably disagree with it too," because that doesn't mean anything. Also, please tell me what other interpretations there is for "it doesn't matter if they assimilate, because they would enter the gene pool" or "rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites" What are all the possible interpretations of these claims? I'm not believing him because I want to be angry at him, are you kidding me? It's quite the opposite. I've been a huge Jontron fan since Dinosity, the reason I want him to do better is because I want to love him. If I wanted to hate him, I wouldn't want him to do much of anything else, he already said enough shit for him to be hated.

[QUOTE=Dunsparce;51984989]Aha, is it really so ludicrous to ask for an apology?[/QUOTE] When you're asking him to apologize for something he's attempting to explain he hasn't done (be racist), then yes, I think it is. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Dunsparce;51984989] Also, please tell me what other interpretations there is for "it doesn't matter if they assimilate, because they would enter the gene pool" or "rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites" What are all the possible interpretations of these claims? [/QUOTE] These are the two big ones people seem to be getting hung up on, and I'm pretty sure if you just pay attention to his words you'll catch on. It's been made 100% crystal clear that he's misinterpreted studies in relation to crime when it came to the rich blacks vs poor whites argument. You literally cannot fault a guy for expressing a statistic he honestly thought was correct, even if it has a shitty implication to it. Maybe he should apologize for misreading that? idk people probably still wouldn't be happy. Now, the big one. Drum roll. Him being worried about the gene pool of whites? [I]Not racist.[/I] [B]Super[/B] fucked up and ignorant, but not racist, at least from where I'm standing. I couldn't care less if you're so obsessed with your own race that you don't want to see it disappear, plenty of people of other races have similar concerns. What you guys think he's saying is that he doesn't want any dirty blacks mingling with his white women and turning all the pure, glorious whities darker. But what he actually means, is that he doesn't want to see the white race disappear. Again, to me, this is just super ignorant. Really dumb and regressive views. But not maliciously racist, and nothing he should be obligated to apologize for. He doesn't realize the benefits of the gene pools mixing, or he values the mere existence of different races over those benefits. But again, he doesn't think that any race is inferior to any other. He doesn't think any race is predisposed to any sort of crime. He's made this stuff pretty clear at this point, I think. The fact that I've had such a hard time typing this (particularly the sentence "being worried about the gene pool of whites is not racist") somewhat proves his point he's trying to make in the 'apology' video, I think.

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;51984891]How did a black dude like Sky listen to Jon rant for like 30minutes about how the black race is genetically predisposed to crime and other bad shit, and go "hmm yes it's just le SJW boogeyman hating Jon" WHAT[/QUOTE] Sky didn't think what Jon said in Destiny's stream was right. He admitted to blindly defending him without listening to what he said. I think it's worthy to note that you have a black guy who is still Jon's friend and doesn't think he's actually a racist because he obviously didn't give much thought into expanding what he really meant. Also, I would implore everyone to watch Sargon and Destiny's discussion because Sargon definitely does a better job explaining why white people shouldn't be criticized for not wanting to become a minority. [video=youtube;j_y7ZZmYVPA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_y7ZZmYVPA[/video] To be honest, Destiny shows his true colors in this debate at 2:22:45. He just can't stop himself from strawmanning when he doesn't get an argument. Not to mention the whole "Animator's have a really easy job and are not allowed to complain" rhetoric. I think Destiny lost his fucking mind.

On the topic of whites becoming a minority: I understand the concern in some other countries, but why in the UNITED STATES of all places would white people feel concerned about being replaced as the majority? I mean, I know [I]why[/I], but knowing this country's history, it seems a bit silly.

[QUOTE=Chaplin;51984765]this is like, nothing new. he's been spouting alt right bullshit on twitter for ages now and even appeared on breitbart [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] i liked jontron's vids just as much as the next guy but its not as easy to just go "eh its fine people are allowed different opinions" or whatever other self serving garbage when the guy whose videos you're watching probably wouldn't hesitate to kick you out of your home if he could[/QUOTE] Albert Speer was a literal Nazi, but he was responsible for the a great deal of theory on stripped classicism, which is still entirely relevant in today's architectural discourse. Mies van der Rohe wanted to work for the Reich, and Le Corbusier submitted several proposals for Soviet government buildings. Those two also designed some of the most iconic buildings in the US and abroad. Their work can be viewed separate from their ideology. And then there's Walt Disney and Henry Ford... Point being, I think Jontron's an idiot and a bigot, but I don't fault people for enjoying his work, same as I don't fault people for enjoying Mickey Mouse. We've always divorced the entertainer from the entertainment. It doesn't mean what they're doing is right, of course, and these kinds of views should be openly criticized. (Brief historical aside: Speer did eventually go to prison, where he wrote two autobiographical books which were filled with details about the workings of the Reich, and he issued a formal apology.) [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=AbioFlesh;51985097]On the topic of whites becoming a minority: I understand the concern in some other countries, but why in the UNITED STATES of all places would white people feel concerned about being replaced as the majority? I mean, I know [I]why[/I], but knowing this country's history, it seems a bit silly.[/QUOTE] No, that's exactly it. Because whites have been the historical majority here, because the US as a cultural institution rose to power with white supremacy (natives, slaves, the Spanish), a lot of people view the loss of racial majority as the loss of the foundations of their country. It's a weird form of racism that's heavily rooted in nationalism, historical revision, and Protestantism.

I don't understand why some Americans are so scared of whites becoming the minority when tons of American culture comes from other ethnicities.

[QUOTE=Destroyox;51985190]I don't understand why some Americans are so scared of whites becoming the minority when tons of American culture comes from other ethnicities.[/QUOTE] The answer is simple. Racism is illogical.

-snip-

[QUOTE=Destroyox;51985190]I don't understand why some Americans are so scared of whites becoming the minority when tons of American culture comes from other ethnicities.[/QUOTE] I was going to write a long post about this but it's 3:30am and I'd probably word it incredibly poorly. To put it simply, America is one of a very small number of countries where the racial make-up of it's population and the class make-up overlapped almost exactly. That is to say America had the Whites who were well off, the blacks who were slaves and later discriminated against, the Native Americans who were suppressed and subjugated, and the 'others' who were filtered out from the Whites because they were too poor or foreign to fit. For a long time the Irish, Polish, and Italians weren't considered "white" in America because "white" was a specific Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASPs) group who were typically fairly well off to rich, and poor Catholics didn't fit the bill. Only when the Irish, Italian, and Polish minorities became 'well off' did they become "white" in America. Basically, subconsciously to many Americans "White" means success and by becoming "Not White" America is failing as a nation. [sp]There are arguments to be made that America is failing as a nation but losing it's 'whiteness' is not one of them. Not that I agree with them.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Damjen;51985273]The answer is simple. Racism is illogical.[/QUOTE] Not really, it's just unnecessary.