JonTron releases a statement about the controversy - General

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;52013187]yes that's the entire fucking point[/QUOTE] sounds silly i like jon and his videos if he has a dumb political view, call him out on it, sure, he's a reasonable person and is able to form an opinion just like the rest of us what bothers me is going on a boycott rant calling him names and a bunch of other shit for, what? voicing an opinion? what a joke this is hardly a debate, its just loads of flaming and nonsense, it'll be forgotten in a month just like all the other yt drama

I dunno man heavily implying that biracial marriage is bad and that black people are naturally more violent is pretty fucked.

The Irish thing was also kinda cunty.

yeah sure its fucked, i don't know whether or not that's truly what he believes in, but at the end of the day its more just... i don't care you cant invest so much time and energy into all of this nonsensical drama because it's absolutely self-defeating. it does nothing but drag you down, and certainly doesn't change anything in this scenario. you can argue for months about how jon is a racist or whatever, and who knows, maybe he is. but from what i've at least managed to gather from all i can online, he's at least well meaning. he's not like any other bigoted asshole out there and i'm sure he's certainly willing to change and would be a lot more calm and collected given ANY OTHER situation, but the way everyone involved deals with it just makes it worse if anything my opinion is just dont waste the time and energy in dealing with nonsense like this because it doesn't do anything productive. you just waste time arguing about issues that's WAY beyond past our control. racism is heavily engrained into human culture, whether you like it or not, and no bitching over youtube celebrities will change that in any way all in all its just jon looks like a big racist and i guess that's it... so why push it further sorry i also see this shit constantly in different discord servers so its just a bit of an annoyance now ya know thats just me! i think u guys are nice though please dont bully me i just wanna TALK

[QUOTE=Asaratha;52013294]"i dont care, so you guys shouldn't either" if people do not want to support somebody they feel has wronged them, that is their right. not hard to understand. it's fine if you don't agree, but that doesn't really matter[/QUOTE] seems like absolutely none of this matters he made a stupid comment, he got the backlash, there we go, problem solved i guess what are we doing here by arguing back and forth over this?

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013298]seems like absolutely none of this matters he made a stupid comment, he got the backlash, there we go, problem solved i guess what are we doing here by arguing back and forth over this?[/QUOTE] he has a really wide influence of young people it matters

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52013352]he has a really wide influence of young people it matters[/QUOTE] id be worried if my child is learning the ways of the world through jontron he has never expressed these views in any of his actual content, so why bring it up like its an issue? it seems like he goes out of his way to try and PREVENT broadcasting this kinda shit because of scenarios exactly like this if we have to crucify people just because they express an opinion, whether bigoted or not, then you're being just as bigoted if anything i'm not trying to downplay whatever shit he said, its just people act like he straight up murdered someone, when in reality its just a dumb, bigoted opinion and nothing more

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013363]id be worried if my child is learning the ways of the world through jontron [/QUOTE] do you know how children learn as an adult i realise just how much i learned from watching the simpsons all throughout my childhood, for example. regardless, kids hugely idolise youtube content creators at the moment. anything jontron related will come up in related videos. they might even follow his twitter. anything he says is easily accessible by anyone watching his content and sometime's it's even recommended to you. kids who think he's great might watch this video an his opinions may influence them as children are very impressionable, especially when it comes to people they like.

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013363] if we have to crucify people just because they express an opinion, whether bigoted or not, then you're being just as bigoted if anything[/QUOTE] yeah cool keep trying to convince me i'm a bigot because i'm extremely critical of racism and xenophobia. i dont think thats going to work out for you

alright then let's take it as a think of the children argument you have constant violent tv shows and video games, wars in the middle east, people killing each other over skin color, easy accessible gore-fest isis execution videos that you can find on FACEBOOK of all places, and just a fuck ton of other stuff all on the same computer they can watch jontron on saying jontron is poorly influencing these kids and going for that kind of argument is a straight cop-out. there are SO MUCH worse shit that these easily corrupted kids you speak of, and they have just as easy access to it. jon saying some racist shit would be the least of my worries. actually should i even bother anymore you guys are just hand-picking quotes i say and not even reading anything else. that's strawmanning.

do people still use smelt it dealt it racism unironically

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013402]alright then let's take it as a think of the children argument you have constant violent tv shows and video games, wars in the middle east, people killing each other over skin color, easy accessible gore-fest isis execution videos that you can find on FACEBOOK of all places, and just a fuck ton of other stuff all on the same computer they can watch jontron on saying jontron is poorly influencing these kids and going for that kind of argument is a straight cop-out. there are SO MUCH worse shit that these easily corrupted kids you speak of, and they have just as easy access to it. jon saying some racist shit would be the least of my worries. actually should i even bother anymore you guys are just hand-picking quotes i say and not even reading anything else. that's strawmanning.[/QUOTE] are you listening to the words being said to you kids don't idolise isis videos like they idolise a funny youtube man. they don't idolise fake violence. and i'd like to point out that even violent video games have positive messages of doing the right thing etc. the things you are saying do not make sense. they are a stretch. my argument isn't a cop out, it's a fact

[quote] you can take a holier than thou approach to it if you really wish, but brushing aside peoples concerns about this person who has a wide influence and a wide reach saying borderline racist shit is just foolish.[/quote] don't say im holier than thou, no. i may as well be calling you a stupid pizza face. sorry i REALLY hate that. not relevant. moving on [quote]people have a right to not support businesses/people for outlandish views and opinions. ie, the chick-fil-a fiasco. just because he doesn't put it in his content, doesn't mean it's not something HE HIMSELF said, or something people can't find him saying.[/quote] right, and i don't see why you shouldn't be able to my argument is that theres no point dragging this out for so long. he got the backlash. move on. this is my point. [quote]are you listening to the words being said to you kids don't idolise isis videos like they idolise a funny youtube man. they don't idolise fake violence. and i'd like to point out that even violent video games have positive messages of doing the right thing etc. the things you are saying do not make sense. they are a stretch. my argument isn't a cop out, it's a fact[/quote] kids have a brain and they don't see jontron and say "dang this man says blacks are inferior that must mean its true" like really, if you're saying jon is influencing these kids to be racist, then it is shortsighted. it's literally assuming they do nothing except watch youtube all day, which means we have much bigger issues. so once again, heres my point: he said stupid shit, he got the backlash, why argue further

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013402]alright then let's take it as a think of the children argument you have constant violent tv shows and video games, wars in the middle east, people killing each other over skin color, easy accessible gore-fest isis execution videos that you can find on FACEBOOK of all places, and just a fuck ton of other stuff all on the same computer they can watch jontron on saying jontron is poorly influencing these kids and going for that kind of argument is a straight cop-out. there are SO MUCH worse shit that these easily corrupted kids you speak of, and they have just as easy access to it. jon saying some racist shit would be the least of my worries. actually should i even bother anymore you guys are just hand-picking quotes i say and not even reading anything else. that's strawmanning.[/QUOTE] saying that "there are worse things out there" doesn't justify less worse things that's actually a fallacy [url]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/155/Relative-Privation[/url]

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013402]alright then let's take it as a think of the children argument you have constant violent tv shows and video games, wars in the middle east, people killing each other over skin color, easy accessible gore-fest isis execution videos that you can find on FACEBOOK of all places, and just a fuck ton of other stuff all on the same computer they can watch jontron on saying jontron is poorly influencing these kids and going for that kind of argument is a straight cop-out. there are SO MUCH worse shit that these easily corrupted kids you speak of, and they have just as easy access to it. jon saying some racist shit would be the least of my worries. actually should i even bother anymore you guys are just hand-picking quotes i say and not even reading anything else. that's strawmanning.[/QUOTE] Do you think that if people had the choice between watching beheadings all day and video game satire that they're going to pick beheadings? It isn't news that the internet is full of violent shit. It's just that most normal kids aren't going to go out of their way to find that sort of thing. At least the most impressionable ones. JonTron on the other hand is specifically targeted towards a young audience. He's a role model and kids look up to him.

[QUOTE=pod;52013446]Do you think that if people had the choice between watching beheadings all day and video game satire that they're going to pick beheadings? It isn't news that the internet is full of violent shit. It's just that most normal kids aren't going to go out of their way to find that sort of thing. At least the most impressionable ones. JonTron on the other hand is specifically targeted towards a young audience. The young will listen to him.[/QUOTE] ok i agree maybe the isis beheading shit wasn't a strong point but no kids see jon as a big racist. they see the funny man on youtube who normally doesn't get involved in political discussions like this, because they don't care about that. sorry i dont mean to get heated my bad [QUOTE=Asaratha;52013445]you are being very holier than thou your argument is dumb. people are also free to discuss whatever they like. no point in telling people to move on if they want to continue discussing it and not move on.[/QUOTE] sorry for wanting to state my view on the subject, forgot that's not allowed i don't care whether or not you want to continue discussing it, why should i? doesn't affect me, same way this racist stuff doesn't. you shouldn't let anyone stop you from stating your opinion. all i want to say, [B]all i want to say,[/B] is that i just see it as pointless. it doesn't solve anything and ultimately just ends up being another self-created problem to get stressed over that's it if you want to argue about it, fine, so be it.

People say you should seperate the artist from their work, but many cases the artist [I]is [/I]their work. Jontron's primary thing is being Jontron, and now his goofy persona just won't feel as genuine as it used to.

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013456]ok i agree maybe the isis beheading shit wasn't a strong point but no kids see jon as a big racist. they see the funny man on youtube who normally doesn't get involved in political discussions like this, because they don't care about that. sorry i dont mean to get heated my bad[/QUOTE] You can't generalize an audience. There's going to be people out there that will go on just watching the fun stuff, but there's also going to be a share of people that see [i]everything[/i] that Jon does. And they [i]will[/i] be influenced by what he says. He is popular enough that there will be a share of his audience will change their opinions.

[QUOTE=Asaratha;52013488]you edit your posts a lot so i'm just gonna merge this. that's fine that you see it as pointless, other people don't. please get this through your head. and i highly doubt people are getting really stressed over this, and having sleepless nights, lol.[/QUOTE] yeah sorry its just hard to keep up, and i understand. most of the emotion is coming from my end due to having multiple debates on this same topic over and over, sorry haha. [quote]There's going to be people out there that will go on just watching the fun stuff, but there's also going to be a share of people that see everything that Jon does. And they will be influenced by what he says. He is popular enough that there will be people out there that listen to his comments and are influenced by what he says.[/quote] that's fair enough i can see how just this alone is enough to spread and fuck up his reputation, with the way grudges are on the internet he probably won't hear the end of it honestly the best outcome i can see from this is he just keeps his mouth shut next time, which i hope he learned

[QUOTE=Mingebox;52013481]People say you should seperate the artist from their work, but many cases the artist [I]is [/I]their work. Jontron's primary thing is being Jontron, and now his goofy persona just won't feel as genuine as it used to.[/QUOTE] I believe it's work/art separated from their personal life. It can't cover everything though, sometimes shit gets too real. Rolf Harris...

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52013385]do you know how children learn [b]as an adult i realise just how much i learned from watching the simpsons all throughout my childhood, for example.[/b] regardless, kids hugely idolise youtube content creators at the moment. anything jontron related will come up in related videos. they might even follow his twitter. anything he says is easily accessible by anyone watching his content and sometime's it's even recommended to you. kids who think he's great might watch this video an his opinions may influence them as children are very impressionable, especially when it comes to people they like.[/QUOTE] This is actually a pretty a good example for why I wouldn't blame someone for still supporting Jontron's videos. Nancy Cartwright has tried to convert people to Scientology before, but I wouldn't say that kids watching the Simpsons are prone to become Scientologists. I agree though that he should make his political opinions less easily accessible at least.

[QUOTE=Glent;51991123]Yeah actually. Let's take the whole "rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites." Like maybe one of the most iconic points he makes in the debate. In his statement he goes as far as to say that people mad at him for this one are just scared of statistics. Do you believe that statement? Would you believe that statement if it was posted by a reputable news source or somebody you trusted? If you believe that statement under any circumstance, then that's a "degenerate view" because the only justification for it is "rich black people commit more crimes than poor whites, because they are genetically predisposed to crime." That's bullshit. No matter who told you that or where you read it you should immediately realize that it's bullshit. By saying it's rich blacks versus poor whites you're saying black people commit more crime than whites, not because of social or economic factors, but because they're black.[/QUOTE] That's going to far. If (hypothetically) there actually was a reputable, scientific source that showed it to be true it shouldn't be dismissed based on gut feeling alone.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;52015067]This is actually a pretty a good example for why I wouldn't blame someone for still supporting Jontron's videos. Nancy Cartwright has tried to convert people to Scientology before, but I wouldn't say that kids watching the Simpsons are prone to become Scientologists. I agree though that he should make his political opinions less easily accessible at least.[/QUOTE] nancy cartwright doesn't have an internet presence (that i'm aware of) and being the voice of something is much more in the background than being a voice, a face, and a personality that's in the complete forefront. i don't go to youtube to watch nancy cartwright content and get recommended videos on her weird views and i don't go to her twitter to check on her content updates. kids really like bart simpson, they don't know or care about nancy etc etc it's pretty different

There are so many examples of huge celebrities saying and doing insane things and being just fine, if not glamorized for it. Sean Penn is a great example. He's essentially an apologist for murderers like El Chapo, Fidel Castro, and Hugo Chavez. Hell, he said that US journalists who called Hugo Chavez a dictator should be jailed ([URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/11/sean-penn-hugo-chavez-venezuela[/URL]).

[QUOTE=tupacman;52013456] sorry for wanting to state my view on the subject, forgot that's not allowed[/QUOTE] I mean there's that, and then there's running into a room blindfolded and swinging your fists around It sounds like you came in this thread with barely any knowledge on the subject just to talk about how little you care about what Jon said and expected to be treated with as much validity as someone who's actually looked into it.

[QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;52017934]I mean there's that, and then there's running into a room blindfolded and swinging your fists around It sounds like you came in this thread with barely any knowledge on the subject just to talk about how little you care about what Jon said and expected to be treated with as much validity as someone who's actually looked into it.[/QUOTE] no what i wanted to say is that even though jon made a very bigoted and dumb opinion, you shouldnt be crucifying him over it and instead just correct him and educate him kindly!! the man has the right to have an opinion and you have every right to discuss it... but seriously people take this shit [url=http://i.imgur.com/0J06612.png]way too serious[/url] jon said some dumb things but that doesnt mean we should completely turn against him... having a bigoted opinion is different than full-blown racism. we must correct him and show him the error of his ways sorry i did actually come into this thread blindly though i was ranting more because of that kinda stuff happening lately forgive me kindly

[QUOTE=Asaratha;52018076]that image is just somebody quoting a Pink Guy song lol[/QUOTE] oh thats kinda funny hard for me to tell because the guy was outright crazy mighta been a BIG TROLL i fell for who knows

[QUOTE=tupacman;52018071]no what i wanted to say is that even though jon made a very bigoted and dumb opinion, you shouldnt be crucifying him over it and instead just correct him and educate him kindly!! the man has the right to have an opinion and you have every right to discuss it... but seriously people take this shit [url=http://i.imgur.com/0J06612.png]way too serious[/url] jon said some dumb things but that doesnt mean we should completely turn against him... having a bigoted opinion is different than full-blown racism. we must correct him and show him the error of his ways sorry i did actually come into this thread blindly though i was ranting more because of that kinda stuff happening lately forgive me kindly[/QUOTE] The problem is that although a lot of us would like to educate him, he seems to not be listening at all and instead insists that we misunderstood him.