[QUOTE=ThePanther;48881634]I'm not complaining, but, can a game like fallout or mass effect please adopt this tech? Cause we spend a lot of time in those games talking to people, and I don't know if that would really be the case for Star Citizen.[/QUOTE]
It will be the case in the single-player game. The MMO component probably won't have such strongly-directed motion capture cinematics, but the various NPCs will have nearly the same level of visual fidelity, and there will be lots of out-of-ship time unless you choose to only stay in space.
But, hopefully this game advances the state of the industry and other developers/publishers step up.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48881634]I'm not complaining, but, can a game like fallout or mass effect please adopt this tech?[/QUOTE]
A lot of studios have more or less, Valve uses blend shapes and wrinkle maps, I'd say most AAA next-gen games use some blend of the technology SC is using now, adding a "blood flow map" probably just changes the diffuse and subsurf values a little, that is a pretty easy modification to an already existing material node setup.
[QUOTE=Saza;48879591]honestly I question if this game will ever really release
every time I hear about it it's got something new and awesome like this, and that's great! but I question if it'll ever really see the light of day for a long time[/QUOTE]
Honestly the developers have created the perfect cash cow: they just release very tiny snippits of supposed progress every few months, and rake in the money as even more people buy the $45 alpha or $200+ dollar ships. They literally have no reason to release it any time soon, they're probably making more money now than they will be after the game launches.
I'd expect SC to release when half-life 3 comes out. As in, never.
[editline]11th October 2015[/editline]
As awesome as this game looks, I absolutely refuse to ever get involved in a pre-release/early access games after what happened with DayZ. Close to 2 years after the early access launched and literally nothing to show for it. The developers were way too ambitious with what they promised and refuse to admit they cannot make the game work.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;48879839]People try so hard to hate on this game
Like literally anything they find they will complain about[/QUOTE]
I think most people are reacting to the fact that, as someone else said, they're basically trying to stuff every single genre into the same thing, while also making it both play and look perfectly, which is extremely ambitious.
Like, don't get me wrong, if they actually pull it off, I'll be extremely impressed and buy it in a heartbeat, but it feels like it's too good to be true, and that it'll eventually turn out to be a massively stripped, clunky and awkward disappointment
I want the game to succeed. I really do.
However if the abuse allegations are true fuck em. If they're not, fuck the shoddy reporting.
Eitherway I'll either get the space sandbox crew that my friends and I have always wanted and the Battletech game I always wanted, or just the Battletech game.
The next two years will be amazing.
I know I am going to be hated for this but I do not see how this is going to be feasible to integrate into the game [B]in a good way[/B].
In what way does pupil dilation really help the experience of a spaceship game? If they are going to go full hog with this then how are they going to prevent the frankly large amount of time and effort needed to rig each individual face and animate each of those faces specifically for each individual sequence without making the hole game 2 inches deep?
It is so bafflingly pointless to spend so much time, money, and effort into something that will only possibly be seen for .0001% of the players game time.
I mean if this turns out to be just for single player cutscenes then what is the point in spending so much time modeling, face-rigging, and animating, with A-List actors and integrating it into the games programming when you could have just gone to Blur for the equivalent with less wasted work hours?
[QUOTE=Thlis;48883411]I know I am going to be hated for this but I do not see how this is going to be feasible to integrate into the game [B]in a good way[/B].
In what way does pupil dilation really help the experience of a spaceship game? If they are going to go full hog with this then how are they going to prevent the frankly large amount of time and effort needed to rig each individual face and animate each of those faces specifically for each individual sequence without making the hole game 2 inches deep?
It is so bafflingly pointless to spend so much time, money, and effort into something that will only possibly be seen for .0001% of the players game time.[/QUOTE]
It's because they aren't making a game. They're making internet spaceship commercials.
I hope down the road it blows other space-sims *cough* Elite: Dangerous *cough* out of the water and we don't have to pay $60 for half-assed planetary landings ;D
[QUOTE=Da Big Man;48883522]I hope down the road it blows other space-sims *cough* Elite: Dangerous *cough* out of the water and we don't have to pay $60 for half-assed planetary landings ;D[/QUOTE]
Yeah man, I'd much rather pay $1500 for a spaceship I can't even fly yet!
[sp]both games are equally terrible at this point in time, all star citizen has to show for itself is a shitty unoptimized 30GB demo and lots of "empty promises", and while elite has a functional game it is largely barren, but at this point i think i'll go for the game that's actually playable over the one that isn't[/sp]
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;48879839]People try so hard to hate on this game
Like literally anything they find they will complain about[/QUOTE]
I think it's a case of being burned by unfulfilled promises and hype that makes people very cautious about a game development company that makes such ambitious and amazing claims that makes it sound like if the game was to come out and deliver, it would probably end up being the best game ever made so far. I think people are trying to fight the hype because nobody has seen all of the features in action at the same time, only little bits and pieces of it.
Not trying to excuse or praise the amount of hate on the game, just trying to explain it :v:
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;48883627]I think it's a case of being burned by unfulfilled promises and hype that makes people very cautious about a game development company that makes such ambitious and amazing claims that makes it sound like if the game was to come out and deliver, it would probably end up being the best game ever made so far. I think people are trying to fight the hype because nobody has seen all of the features in action at the same time, only little bits and pieces of it.
Not trying to excuse or praise the amount of hate on the game, just trying to explain it :v:[/QUOTE]
Its caution, because the other games who've had these large number of claims have all...turned out...gutted and passable or gutted and shit.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48883643]Its caution, because the other games who've had these large number of claims have all...turned out...gutted and passable or gutted and shit.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it makes sense when you have so many games of high production values coming out from AAA devs that only aim to be a fraction as feature-full and polished compared to Star Citizen and still many times fail to even deliver on that.
This is really getting into the uncanny valley now. There's something rubbery about his skin, and the point where his eyes meet their sockets is too clean.
arousing
[QUOTE=ThePanther;48881634]I'm not complaining, but, can a game like fallout or mass effect please adopt this tech? Cause we spend a lot of time in those games talking to people, and I don't know if that would really be the case for Star Citizen.[/QUOTE]
No, they can't. Those kind of games have millions and millions of voice lines, doing this shit for all them would take an insane amount of time and probably triple the development time.
I'm still confused about SC's ships and the pricing and whatever. If I purchase the game after it's been fully released, will I still be able to get all these ships by playing the game? Asking for £130 for a virtual space ship is a bit fuckin steep
[editline]12th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48883532]Yeah man, I'd much rather pay $1500 for a spaceship I can't even fly yet!
[sp]both games are equally terrible at this point in time, all star citizen has to show for itself is a shitty unoptimized 30GB demo and lots of "empty promises", and while elite has a functional game it is largely barren, but at this point i think i'll go for the game that's actually playable over the one that isn't[/sp][/QUOTE]
Elite's extremely underwhelming. It [I]looks[/I] amazing but it totally lacks depth especially if you're playing solo. I've ranted about this in its respective thread, but it doesn't even have the baseline combat missions you'd expect from a space game ie attack/defend this station/convoy/capital ship(s)
[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;48885494]I'm still confused about SC's ships and the pricing and whatever. If I purchase the game after it's been fully released, will I still be able to get all these ships by playing the game? Asking for £130 for a virtual space ship is a bit fuckin steep
[/QUOTE]
Yes they have a disclaimer in the checkout that your money is merely a donation towards development and all of these ships can be acquired in-game once the full thing is released.
if they [I]really[/I] wanted to show off their tech, they could have only used voice actors with the facial animation to make all appearances of real people actually just super HD models
[QUOTE=Quark:;48885572]if they [I]really[/I] wanted to show off their tech, they could have only used voice actors with the facial animation to make all appearances of real people actually just super HD models[/QUOTE]
Are you saying they should have [i]manually[/i] animated the facial expressions at that level of detail?
[editline]a[/editline]
Wait I misunderstood, I get what you mean now.
I think they wanted to show off was how streamlined the process is, as in they don't have to manually model every face. But I'd imagine they'd be able to take an actor's performance and transpose it onto custom models if they wanted to (it looks like they've done exactly that for the aliens in the game).
[QUOTE=Thlis;48883411]If they are going to go full hog with this then how are they going to prevent the frankly large amount of time and effort needed to rig each individual face and animate each of those faces specifically for each individual sequence without making the whole game 2 inches deep?[/QUOTE]
Actually for Squadron 42 they're already finished. Chris Robert's recently just came out of a [I]66 day long[/I] mocap session.
Though I'm not sure how you think that 'lots of time needed for animation' somehow affects how deep the game will be, they're two completely different departments.
[editline]13th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48883532]
Yeah man, I'd much rather pay $1500 for a spaceship I can't even fly yet!
all star citizen has to show for itself is a shitty unoptimized 30GB demo and lots of "empty promises"[/QUOTE]
People aren't buying the ships because they want to fly them, they buy the ships to support development. The people who pay ludicrous amounts are already seeing results, as shown below.
Right off the bat, shitty makes it sound like you're just looking for something to complain about. The unoptimized part is very true in the hanger, but barely true in space. I'm not gonna rebuke the 30GB because that has me shitty too but hey the final size is projected to be 100GB, that's how many assets they're managing to push out.
The empty promises part though? Get fucked, here's a bunch of progress reports.
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14995-Monthly-Studio-Report"]September (13'000-ish words)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14937-Monthly-Studio-Report"]August (14'000)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14871-Monthly-Report"]July (13'000)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14814-Monthly-Report"]June (12'000)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14758-Monthly-Report-May"]May (12'000)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14690-Monthly-Report-April"]April (11'000)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14640-Monthly-Report-March"]March (9'500)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14563-Monthly-Report-February"]February (8'000)[/URL]
[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14481-Monthly-Report-January"]January (10'000)[/URL]
That's just 2015.
Oh and while you're at it have a few playlists too.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB2LmbRq06t8sChjbU3SsDeM"]10FTC[/URL]- 86 videos about 20 minutes long where various staff answer questions. About 30 hours of stuff to watch there.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB3tDp7Sk8z_LKNaR0hDtazF"]Bugsmashers[/URL]- lead debugger shows off all the bullshit that stops the game from working.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB290jDIeV9fTTq-X8Kt49nX"]Around the Verse[/URL]- 62 episodes averaging 40 minutes long, about 40 hours of stuff to watch there.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB0izy7I5_nISg748TVBPts9"]Reverse the Verse[/URL]- 22 hours of content on this playlist.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB21nk_lXX4LV_5DUtX-d4kq"]Inside CIG[/URL]- 22 videos of miscellanea that doesn't fit anyway else
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVct2QDhDrB0sipIorv4skO-XR8bAO7Pp"]Wingman's Hangar[/URL]- 72 episodes about 35 minutes long. 42 hours of stuff to watch there.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2hETOEGt-Q&list=PLVct2QDhDrB0zaroa4xJZzj8mznFL489Y"]Meet the Devs[/URL]- 41 interviews with staff. Some camera shy, some annoyed to be there, but all of them informative.
The filming of all this doesn't come out of the development budget, there's a seperate fund for that paid for by the community. People who contribute to that fund also get exclusive* access to Jump Point which is an 80 page long pdf they put out every month. *Exclusive meaning that you leak a copy anywhere except the official forums and they won't chase you up
Come on. Go through all of this. Read every word, watch every second then try telling me this project is going to be a failure.
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;48885522]Yes they have a disclaimer in the checkout that your money is merely a donation towards development and all of these ships can be acquired in-game once the full thing is released.[/QUOTE]
Great, I don't think I'll be pre-purchasing a ship because I like the "hobo phase"
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;48885587]Actually for Squadron 42 they're already finished. Chris Robert's recently just came out of a [I]66 day long[/I] mocap session.
[B]
Though I'm not sure how you think that 'lots of time needed for animation' somehow affects how deep the game will be[/B], they're two completely different departments.
[/QUOTE]
I think I am done discussing Star Citizen with Star Citizen fans.
You have to be completely oblivious not to see how adding a metric ton of unnecessary work to a project, Mocapping A list actors, is going to affect the span/depth of the game.
[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;48886600]Great, I don't think I'll be pre-purchasing a ship because I like the "hobo phase"[/QUOTE]
well with the game in how it should play out, the singler player (while you can skip it) starts off in the single player and leaves you with a better standing with your starter ship. There are several starter ships (a two seater not ready) and people and the pledges at the lower level can get one of or those starter ships. There are additional perks to those ships, (all obtainable and if your income is good no need for the life time insurance), but ignoring that the base package is sorta like a preorder as it would be the same or lower price to when it ships. Now if you do not like even the concept of preordering, that's fine and just wait.
[QUOTE=Thlis;48886694]I think I am done discussing Star Citizen with Star Citizen fans.
You have to be completely oblivious not to see how adding a metric ton of unnecessary work to a project, Mocapping A list actors, is going to affect the span/depth of the game.[/QUOTE]
no really, explain with your knowledge of development or comparison of other projects that this particular part bottlenecks development or mo capping isn't appreciated in the end result?
[QUOTE=Ithon;48886763]
no really, explain with your knowledge of development or comparison of other projects that this particular part bottlenecks development or mo capping isn't appreciated in the end result?[/QUOTE]
You're paying for 66 days of performance capture with professional actors.
-Any reshoots you need.
-Any additional voice work you need in post.
And wrangling actors, scheduling times, then doing cleanup for the end result will probably take longer and be more expensive than keyed animation would have been.
What kind of quality do you expect out of keyed animation
Like yeah you can put as much money into a fleet of animators and a year of tweaking things so they're not quite uncanny but at what point does that not sound like a garbage use of time all its own? I'd be amazed if I didn't hear "wow those idiots are wasting so much time when we can just mocap shit nowadays, like when the actors are recording their lines or something!"
Having them actually act instead of read a script into a mic in an enclosed room gets a lot more quality out of their interactions, it sounds pretty efficient to me
When they break it down, it looks fucking realistic as shit, but as soon as they bring him back into that hall or whatever it's just not realistic at all to me. That one demo with the bald girl blew my away though but that was about it
I'm still waiting for one of these developers to blow my motherfucking mind and reveal that the little "interview" segments were actually computer generated with their engine in like real time or whatever. That'd be a fucking seller to me
[QUOTE=dai;48888351]
Having them actually act instead of read a script into a mic in an enclosed room gets a lot more quality out of their interactions, it sounds pretty efficient to me[/QUOTE]
My big concern is that they're going ham just to get bit parts in the story done with known actors like most AAA releases.
I like performance capture, but at the same time I can't believe that this game's campaign actually warrants it.
If the parts the actors play aren't a total waste I'm all for it. But right now this sounds like another big idea thrown on top of the pile.
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;48888146]You're paying for 66 days of performance capture with professional actors.
-Any reshoots you need.
-Any additional voice work you need in post.
And wrangling actors, scheduling times, then doing cleanup for the end result will probably take longer and be more expensive than keyed animation would have been.[/QUOTE]
Well the question was related to whom I was replying because they were talking about something not in the mocap which is going to be offered to all the other dev studios that will use their tech, (until dawn used the exact same company). But your point is more competent which is what I asked for. It would be nice to see budget to tell because it could had been a steal or on par to movie studio contracts. Also the touch ups can be done without redoing the scene, for dubbing in other languages so there's some cost reduction.
[QUOTE=KingKombat;48888486]When they break it down, it looks fucking realistic as shit, but as soon as they bring him back into that hall or whatever it's just not realistic at all to me. That one demo with the bald girl blew my away though but that was about it
I'm still waiting for one of these developers to blow my motherfucking mind and reveal that the little "interview" segments were actually computer generated with their engine in like real time or whatever. That'd be a fucking seller to me[/QUOTE]
it wasn't apart of s42, but example using the same tech.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aak1Yn5_5hA[/media]
and here's something from last year.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTF7eGSOP9s[/media]
really looks like a shader issue. There's another example from the youtube page showing the japanese dubbing.
[QUOTE=Thlis;48886694]I think I am done discussing Star Citizen with Star Citizen fans.
You have to be completely oblivious not to see how adding a metric ton of unnecessary work to a project, Mocapping A list actors, is going to affect the span/depth of the game.[/QUOTE]
[I]The animators aren't responsible for the game mechanics.[/I] That's the designers and programmers' job.
Think about how the animation workload would affect other departments. Would it affect the sound design? The Customer Service? The legal team? Of course not! They're all different departments and work simultaneously.
[editline]13th October 2015[/editline]
You have to be completely oblivious not to see how adding a really intricate paint job is going to affect the performance of the car. :IIACA:
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;48888738]I like performance capture, but at the same time I can't believe that this game's campaign actually warrants it.
If the parts the actors play aren't a total waste I'm all for it. But right now this sounds like another big idea thrown on top of the pile.[/QUOTE]
The majority of the capture was not for cutscenes, but for interactive lines that'll occur around the player in 3D space, viewed from whatever the player's perspective is (i.e. wherever the player stands/points/moves). Think of how dead any FPS NPC's expression looks when it stops and stares forward to talk when saying lines not specifically scripted for a cutscene. In theory, that won't be a problem in SC.
It's also worth pointing out that the performance capture studio they used, Imaginarium, is the same one the new Star Wars movies are using. Coincidentally, the MISC Reliant concept art was created by David Hobbins, who's also done some concept art for the new SW films.
[t]https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/3hqfep3qygo85r/source/Reliant_LandedConfig_Final_Hobbins.png[/t]
They're trying to push the state of the game ahead, and that means taking risks. Everyone seems so eager to announce it can't be done.
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