Top 10 Reasons Why The Last Jedi Made Me ANGRY! | Angry Joe Show
68 replies, posted
-snip don't need to make an argument out of this-
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52985895]So he has the opinions of an average moron on the Internet who doesn't understand how storytelling works and just wants a movie that wanks off his nostalgia for roughly 2 hours. Colour me surprised.[/QUOTE]
I will never understand how people can be so head over heels in love with a product, they'll defend it to the point of throwing around insults.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;52985369]Some of those I agree with a little bit, mostly 10, 8 and 7, but the rest? Nah.
Seriously I [sp]also love the indication that Rey's parents are virtual nobodies in the grand scheme of things.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]I do as well, shes her own person instead of banking on some legacy to drive her character development. I also wouldn't count Phasma out yet[/sp]
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;52985369]Some of those I agree with a little bit, mostly 10, 8 and 7, but the rest? Nah.
Seriously I [sp]also love the indication that Rey's parents are virtual nobodies in the grand scheme of things.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]I really hope that Rey's parents are nobodies, one of the things that bugged me about the old EU was that every important main character past the original trilogy era was a descendant from Luke, or Han and Leia. [/sp]
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52985862]they were posted less than 5 minutes apart, i would have assumed it was obvious that i skimmed the video just to see what his points were[/QUOTE]
So you TECHNICALLY still watched it
[QUOTE=J!NX;52986452]So you TECHNICALLY still watched it[/QUOTE]
I sacrificed myself so other people wouldn't have to click randomly through the video to see what his 10 reasons are. My least favorite thing is when videos claim to be a "top ten blankety blank" and they don't have a rundown of what their top ten is at least in the description or something like that.
Plus it was an hour long video so I figured if I wouldn't watch the whole thing, most people wouldn't either so I decided to go through just to see what his points are and write them out so people in the thread could have something to go off of rather than just coming in and seeing an hour long video and going "haha no"
I would contend that even though I "technically" watched it, I didn't actually absorb anything other than each reason why
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52985354]So most of his reasons to be pissed off are [sp]"why isn't this movie pandering to me with predictable plot, I wanted it to feed me obvious fan service, why did it do something novel and unpredictable"[/sp][/QUOTE]
In what way was TLJ even remotely "novel and unpredictable"? Half of the film was just them retreading a mixture of TESB and ROTJ, sometimes with scenes being near identical to ones from the OT. It had the exact same problem as TFA, not that I didn't totally expect disney to pull that lazy shit again.
It was yet more super safe crap. Honestly I have issues with rogue one, but at least they tried something new with it.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52986556]In what way was TLJ even remotely "novel and unpredictable". Half of the film was just them retreading a mixture of TESB and ROTJ, sometimes with scenes being near identical to ones from the OT. It had the exact same problem as TFA, not that I didn't totally expect disney to pull that lazy shit again.
It was yet more super safe crap. Honestly I have issues with rogue one, but at least they tried something new with it.[/QUOTE]
This just in: movies follow basic three act structures. More at 7.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52986562]This just in: movies follow basic three act structures. More at 7.[/QUOTE]
Haha what, it was more than just the structure, it was entire bloody plot points and scenes lifted straight from it. They didn't even attempt to be original.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52986564]Haha what, it was more than just the structure, it was entire bloody plot points and scenes lifted straight from it. They didn't even attempt to be original.[/QUOTE]
Youre going to need to elaborate, because I dont know what youre talking about.
TLJ was absolutely not as much of a retread of the other two as much as TFA was a retread of ANH. It may have the similar things happening (Rey getting trained by Luke) but imo TLJ does it in a much more subtle way then the way TFA did it. Rey's training is so far removed from Luke's training that it feels fresh and interesting to see, especially when you start playing with the fact that [sp]Rey is much less weary of the Dark side as her training continues[/sp]
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52986566]Youre going to need to elaborate, because I dont know what youre talking about.[/QUOTE]
I dunno lets see [sp]the entire throne room sequence where they watch the rebel fleet being destroyed through the window as the emperor/snoke taunts luke/rey, ending in his apprentice murdering him as he tortures luke/rey with his force power (the only thing this missed was the redemption aspect). The rebels being chased by a super star destroyer for half the film. Salt hoth except they stuck it at the end instead of the beginning, the whole Rey and luke training shit that was just their version of luke and yoda including weird ass dream sequence[/sp]
The only difference was that it was all done with far less nuance in this film
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52986574]I dunno lets see [sp]the entire throne room sequence where they watch the rebel fleet being destroyed through the window as the emperor/snoke taunts luke/rey, ending in his apprentice murdering him as he tortures luke/rey with his force power (the only thing this missed was the redemption aspect). The rebels being chased by a super star destroyer for half the film. Salt hoth except they stuck it at the end instead of the beginning, the whole Rey and luke training shit that was just their version of luke and yoda including weird ass dream sequence, this one they probably copied[/sp]
The only difference was that it was all done with far less nuance in this film[/QUOTE]
Those are really minor points, and you can easily make the same number of connections between any two star wars films.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52986580]Those are really minor points, and you can easily make the same number of connections between any two star wars films.[/QUOTE]
They're not minor though, they make up the majority of the bloody film.
And no, I don't think even the prequels, made by the man quoted as saying "it's like poetry they rhyme" lifted anywhere near as much from the original films as TFA or TLJ did. It's just pure laziness on disney's part, instead of doing something new they just played it safe. As a result they made pair of really boring predictable films.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52986582]They're not minor though, they make up the majority of the bloody film.
And no, I don't think even the prequels, made by the man quoted as saying "it's like poetry they rhyme" lifted anywhere near as much from the original films as TFA or TLJ did. It's just pure laziness on disney's part, instead of doing something new they just played it safe. As a result they made pair of really boring predictable films.[/QUOTE]
I think you need to reevaluate your criticisms here. Everyone else whose criticising it said their doing too mich to try and subvert audience expectations, whereas youre the only person saying theyre using the old material as a crutch.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52986574]I dunno lets see [sp]the entire throne room sequence where they watch the rebel fleet being destroyed through the window as the emperor/snoke taunts luke/rey, ending in his apprentice murdering him as he tortures luke/rey with his force power (the only thing this missed was the redemption aspect). The rebels being chased by a super star destroyer for half the film. Salt hoth except they stuck it at the end instead of the beginning, the whole Rey and luke training shit that was just their version of luke and yoda including weird ass dream sequence[/sp]
The only difference was that it was all done with far less nuance in this film[/QUOTE]
[sp]In TLJ the throne room sequence is meant to be a power play by Snoke to try to convince Rey she's meant for the Dark Side. I can't remember off hand but I'm PRETTY sure the rebel fleet wasn't being decimated out the window like they were in TLJ, in fact if I remember right the Rebels kicked the Empire's ass. The emotions the characters are going through aren't the same either. Ren kills Snoke because he feels Snoke is limiting him and he thinks he can run it better than he can. Vader kills the Emperor because his conflict caused him to decide to save his son and reject the emperor.
I don't even know what "the rebels being chased by a super star destroyer for half the film" is supposed to be a copy of. I can't think of another movie in the series where they're being chased actively by the empire for most of the movie.
You really can't reduce crait to being "salt hoth", since the sequences that take place on those planets are completely different, and the reasons for both sides being there are entirely different.[/sp]
You can accuse it of being a copy but your idea of a "copy" seems to be pretty shallow.
[editline].[/editline]
[sp]I guess you could say the sequence in the beginning of ESB where they're escaping the empire on the Falcon could be a "chase", but it doesn't last anywhere near half the movie. They lose them right after they land in the space slug.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52986593]I think you need to reevaluate your criticisms here. Everyone else whose criticising it said their doing too mich to try and subvert audience expectations, whereas youre the only person saying theyre using the old material as a crutch.[/QUOTE]
Those aren't mutually exclusive [sp] the only thing people seem to be mentioning in terms of them trying to subvert audience expectation was Rey's parents being nobodies, which was probably deliberate since having her parents be someone special would be far too reminiscent of the old films, but it was really just a lazy way to try and distinguish it despite copying so much else.[/sp]
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52986598][sp]In TLJ the throne room sequence is meant to be a power play by Snoke to try to convince Rey she's meant for the Dark Side. I can't remember off hand but I'm PRETTY sure the rebel fleet wasn't being decimated out the window like they were in TLJ, in fact if I remember right the Rebels kicked the Empire's ass. The emotions the characters are going through aren't the same either. Ren kills Snoke because he feels Snoke is limiting him and he thinks he can run it better than he can. Vader kills the Emperor because his conflict caused him to decide to save his son and reject the emperor.
I don't even know what "the rebels being chased by a super star destroyer for half the film" is supposed to be a copy of. I can't think of another movie in the series where they're being chased actively by the empire for most of the movie.
You really can't reduce crait to being "salt hoth", since the sequences that take place on those planets are completely different, and the reasons for both sides being there are entirely different.[/sp]
You can accuse it of being a copy but your idea of a "copy" seems to be pretty shallow.
[/QUOTE]
[sp]Their motivational differences are a pretty minor distinction, the fact is the scene plays out in a very similar fashion, just with a bit more action this time. And yes the watching the fleet get destroyed was very much in RotJ, the emperor makes a point of it to luke.
The super star destroyer chase was certainly a notable part of TESB, and they clearly decided to just lift it into this film but extend it a bit.
and salt hoth visually looks the same, there's literally no denying this, the same walkers, the same trench warfare, the same janky utility speeders to take them on, the defence failing and the shield getting destroyed, only thing it lacked was them tripping the AT-ATs over.
they remixed these things in minor ways to make them seem more distinct than they really were, but the underlying ideas and visuals were all lifted shamelessly[/sp]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52986614]Those aren't mutually exclusive [sp] the only thing people seem to be mentioning in terms of them trying to subvert audience expectation was Rey's parents being nobodies, which was probably deliberate since having her parents be someone special would be far too reminiscent of the old films, but it was really just a lazy way to try and distinguish it despite copying so much else.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Rey's parents being nobodies, Leia dying but then flying back into the ship, the plans at the beginning going wrong, the escape plan at the end going wrong thanks to poe's actions (again), Luke projecting his presence, Luke falling to fear and trying to kill Kylo[/sp]
There's a lot more unexpected stuff (at least imo) than that.
[editline]18th December 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52986614]they remixed these things in minor ways to make them seem more distinct than they really were, but the underlying ideas and visuals were all lifted shamelessly[/QUOTE]
i dunno, I guess I just didn't see it that way. I get that they're similar in a few ways but I don't agree that it's lazy or shamelessly copied.
Top 10 reasons why I'm gay
Top Ten Lists are pure clickbait, made for easy views that pander to a general audience, saying the same crap we've already heard time and time again, instead of actually challenging anything.
And here are the Top Ten Reasons why!
In seriousness, the film has a lot of problems, but AngryJoe has proven time and time again that he isn't exactly the most qualified person to be articulating in any analytical level a films strengths or weaknesses. He knows what he likes, and that's fine. But that doesn't make him an especially reliable voice to critique cinema. Everything is surface level with him and often times, his arguments for or against something are poorly structured.
I thought TLJ was very enjoyable but definitely a flawed film - the whole Finn/Rose subplot wasn't [i]bad[/i], just felt kinda boring and was padding out the runtime longer than needed. Every scene with Luke and Rey or Kylo was fantastic, and [sp]I really don't see what he finds wrong with Luke's "death" - I thought it was fitting given how the whole film is about letting go of the past. The way he saw the two suns of Tatooine right before he passed was beautiful.[/sp]
The whole fuel chase thing was just so retarded and bad writing.
Then there is the [sp]Casino[/sp] thing that was pretty much there just to have one of those Star Wars Bar/Club/Public place with lots of weird aliens scenes.
Everything was so...transparent.
It's a polarizing film. Like every Star Wars. Surprised?
[editline]18th December 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52986621][sp]Rey's parents being nobodies, Leia dying but then flying back into the ship, the plans at the beginning going wrong, the escape plan at the end going wrong thanks to poe's actions (again), Luke projecting his presence, Luke falling to fear and trying to kill Kylo[/sp]
[/QUOTE]
I absolutely loved this movie, but I have to be fair. It's a rule of thumb in any story that [sp]if a plan is revealed before it's enacted, it's going to go wrong[/sp].
My thoughts on the film
[sp] In terms of the cinematography I found it to be much more visually interesting than the force awakens. Also that light speed kamikaze scene alone made the movie worth watching.
The main issue I have is the story and plot had a lot of weird holes in it, and they seemed to be pulling explanations out of their ass rather than providing clues as to what's really going on. Like when the gambler betrays them. The issue with that is the gambler is never alone except in his prison cell, and unless he knew ahead of time that they were coming, how would he work out a deal? (BB8 is a traitor) If this were broadcasted a little bit more, it wouldn't have completely rendered the subplot with finn and rose irrelevant.
Also, why couldn't Leia have just told Poe what was going on and saved a lot of hassle?
And the Leia floating back scene was just dumb.
Other than that I really liked the movie and it did some interesting things. Although I don't really like the intensity and sense of urgency the star wars films are pushing. I kind of like a mix between slow dialogue scenes and a lot of action like what the OT did even in episode V[/sp]
I'm genuinely confused: In TFA, it is established that the Empire is gone and the only remnants are the First Order which up till then haden't been a real big threat... By the end of TFA, First Order destroyed a few Alliance systems, but that was only once. The Alliance came back and DESTROYED star-killer base, First Order's only established operating headquarters. They seem to be almost eradicated by the end of TFA.
[sp] How are they now the dominating force in the galaxy at the beginning of TLJ? They don't explain it! They just come out, right off the bat saying the First Order have taken over somehow... This movie greatly suffers from poor plot writing[/sp]
[QUOTE=ThePanther;52987362]I'm genuinely confused: In TFA, it is established that the Empire is gone and the only remnants are the First Order which up till then haden't been a real big threat... By the end of TFA, First Order destroyed a few Alliance systems, but that was only once. The Alliance came back and DESTROYED star-killer base, First Order's only established operating headquarters. They seem to be almost eradicated by the end of TFA.
[sp] How are they now the dominating force in the galaxy at the beginning of TLJ? They don't explain it! They just come out, right off the bat saying the First Order have taken over somehow... This movie greatly suffers from poor plot writing[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]not sure if its elaborated on too much in the movie but i think bf2 campaign establishes that the first order consists of way more than just the ships that were tailing them in the movie. supposedly the firing of starkiller coincided with the first order moving in to seize control all over the universe[/sp]
[QUOTE=ThePanther;52987362]I'm genuinely confused: In TFA, it is established that the Empire is gone and the only remnants are the First Order which up till then haden't been a real big threat... By the end of TFA, First Order destroyed a few Alliance systems, but that was only once. The Alliance came back and DESTROYED star-killer base, First Order's only established operating headquarters. They seem to be almost eradicated by the end of TFA.
[sp] How are they now the dominating force in the galaxy at the beginning of TLJ? They don't explain it! They just come out, right off the bat saying the First Order have taken over somehow... This movie greatly suffers from poor plot writing[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]They aren't the dominating force -yet-, but no galactic political and military entity exists to stop them now. I assume singular systems are just scared shitless of Galactic Empire 2: Unhinged Boogaloo stomping down on them if they resist.[/sp]
This reminds me so fucking much of the Nerd Crew videos that RLM made it hurts, what with all the "Merch" and shit cluttering up the frame.
I loved this movie, but my reasons aren’t the same as others. However, despite my love of Star Wars, I’m not going to waste time telling people how they are wrong for hating it. They have their own reasons too and they are just as right to them as mine are to me.
Can’t we just enjoy something?
[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52987388]not sure if its elaborated on too much in the movie but [sp]i think bf2 campaign establishes that the first order consists of way more than just the ships that were tailing them in the movie. supposedly the firing of starkiller coincided with the first order moving in to seize control all over the universe[/sp][/QUOTE]
to follow up on this since I just saw the movie again: this detail is in fact mentioned at least twice in the movie, once in the opening crawl, and again by Rey [sp]when asking Luke to come back to the Resistance.
The opening crawl says: "Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy."
I can't remember verbatim what Rey says but it's along the same lines. It's definitely implied that the fleet tailing their escape is one part of a much bigger army that's off carrying out seizure of the galaxy[/sp]
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