Super Bunnyhop: Metal Gear Solid V: Dissociative Disorder
64 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;48733394]I don't think so tbh, i've seen a trend tbh of people, regardless of them liking the game or not, always having over like, 70 hours in the game.
Regardless of the games shortcomings, you don't spend that much time in a game unless it's darn good
[/QUOTE]
I spent over 70 hours in year one Destiny. That doesn't mean year one Destiny was a good game.
I'll copy and paste what I said in the MGS thread, because this is actually a really good video, but I just disagree with one thing.
I agree with everything outside Quiet. He says that EVA dresses skimpy because she obviously wants to bone Big Boss, but Quiet is trying to fall in love with Venom without using any words at all. That's why she flaunts around and looks at Venom with puppy dog eyes. Too bad for her Venom Snake responds with a thousand yard stare as he's completely void of feelings except for the pain he feels.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;48733946]this isn't really a good meter tbh.
at the end of phantom pain i found myself playing it for the same reason that I mindlessly drop hours into dumb flash games just because I want to unlock everything, or stuff like Fallout Shelter because I want to get up to 200 followers etc etc
that's really just a compulsion to want to play stuff - actual fun gameplay in that is small in comparison to how much it's padded out.
i'm not saying that those weren't a good 70 hours, but they were 70 hours of "eh" as opposed to a really really solid 15-20. i wouldn't compare a 100 hour run of skyrim to a playthrough of MGS1/2/3. the refined gameplay of MGS1/2/3 has much more depth and emotion packed into it than skyrim which is more of just an immersive completionist experience[/QUOTE]
I don't know, I've gotten 50 hours out of it so far and I fuck around for most of that time.
I don't play this for the story, I know that's a shame to many people here, but this is just a good covert stealth ops game that's quite a bit of fun.
What makes it really shine for me is the beauty of base management and the general toys I'm given to play with in covert and overt operations. Yeah it's samey, but you can do so many different things that I at least, have never felt herded into doing some optimal method
I loved this game, for me it pales in comparison story wise of 4 1 peacewalker and 3 ( 2 is meh ) but generally i still loved playing what is bound to be the last MGS, the previous titles will always hold a dear place in my heart and while some of the story in this which explains the future events ( kinda ) i thought was brilliant there were some bits a bit......really? cmon! but overall the game is a high quality game no matter how you look at it, its fun its detailed its generally an open world game done right.
I'm getting tired of games that are bad or less on purpose. I dropped Spec Ops The Line because it was shit on purpose, its gameplay was awful on purpose, and I wish people would stop trying to do storylines like this. It's not fun, it's not funny, and I get it, we all got it, we got it when the first trailer came out, so please stop with these half-finished messes that explain away the pain by "I was only pretending to be retarded" explanations.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48735813]yeah mgs5 is a bad game
even if you hate the ending, surely you had fun for at least the first 30 hours[/QUOTE]
[B]MAJOR SPOILERS UP IN HERE, YE WHO READS THIS WITHOUT FINISHING THE GAME, ABANDON ALL HOPE[/B]
The memorable moments were in the intro, the quarantine scene, and the devil's house, because it showed there was skill to be found. It was a skill I couldn't find anywhere else, because there were only a handful of environments that were actually interesting to play in, and even then most of them didn't get anywhere near as good as Camp Omega from MGSV: GZ. I could always just look for the route where less enemies were and sneak on through.
They lied about FOB uniqueness, about several key plot points, and the entire first 30 hours were about revenge against cipher, a plot line that was the most important to the entire structure, which was just sort of thrown away and never mentioned again once Code Talker started screaming "DNEH"
Overall, I'd have rather been playing as the real Big Boss doing real Big Boss stuff. I wanted to see Ocelot fanboy over me, I wanted to see Grey Fox and Sniper Wolf and do evil stuff under the belief that I was morally right the whole time, or not and just descend into hell because I wanted to. There were moments that would have been perfect for that, the whole Pandemic scene in the quarantine bay made me want to fuck Huey over so much, but then we just sort of send him off on a boat because his death can't happen yet, we need him so Otacon and his sister can have plotlines.
At the end, when they teased about all the stuff real Big Boss was doing, it made me realize we could have had all that, but we didn't, because THE PHANTOM PAIN.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48735902]the thing is, big boss does do evil stuff with the player thinking its morally right even before 5
in portable ops you coerce random soviet soldiers into joining you or dying
in peace walker you do the same, as well as enlist a child soldier to scout out areas for you, and you create a private military company that leeches off of small conflicts for money, fighting for the highest bidder
they create death and destruction for profit and its all they do, its a nation of warriors living in a war without end, for no reason other than to fight, even if the cause is fucked up
and this is all before 5 even
theres not much else you can do to make him a villain without forcing you to kill child soldiers or something else equally as cartoon villainy[/QUOTE]
Except the game could have done plenty of things. Instead of having child soldiers just do nothing around the base, have them be like in PW, just regular soldiers who you can send out on missions and stuff. Have them use the metal gear, seeing as an adult couldn't possibly pilot one, and they wanted to use it.
More revenge plotlines would have been nice too, I was ready to go nuclear against Cipher in Act 2, but I never did. Moments like the quarantine scene would make me feel nothing but fury against Zero, and he could have made the player do borderline cruel acts, assuming he wanted it to be borderline and not full fledged evil, just to scratch the itch of revenge you had.
[QUOTE=minilandstan;48735929]Except the game could have done plenty of things. Instead of having child soldiers just do nothing around the base, have them be like in PW, just regular soldiers who you can send out on missions and stuff. Have them use the metal gear, seeing as an adult couldn't possibly pilot one, and they wanted to use it. [/QUOTE]You have to remember that there are limits to what companies will and won't allow. Actively killing kids or having them be playable and possibly killed in turn isn't something to likely be tolerated by most publishers.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48735902]the thing is, big boss does do evil stuff with the player thinking its morally right even before 5
in portable ops you coerce random soviet soldiers into joining you or dying
in peace walker you do the same, as well as enlist a child soldier to scout out areas for you, and you create a private military company that leeches off of small conflicts for money, fighting for the highest bidder
they create death and destruction for profit and its all they do, its a nation of warriors living in a war without end, for no reason other than to fight, even if the cause is fucked up
and this is all before 5 even
theres not much else you can do to make him a villain without forcing you to kill child soldiers or something else equally as cartoon villainy
hell
mgs5 end spoilers
[sp]bb is ok with turning his best soldier into a body double solely to serve a shield for him while he recruits soldiers (including children) while also building a rogue military power much larger than msf and diamond dogs combined
that's pretty fucked up[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]but 5 was sold as the missing link that turns bb into the demon of mg1 and 2 but the real dickhead child soldier stuff he did was in pw kinda and completely off screen in 5[/sp]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48736044]kojima loves his false advertising
not cool w/ the false advertising of the return of camp omega (unless theyre talking about mgo3 but fuck that i want to go back to omega and fuck em up good)[/QUOTE]Yeah, it's referring to MGO3.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48736156]but what i dont get is they specifically state owners of gz
the black site map in mgo3 is available for everyone[/QUOTE]The owners of GZ earned exclusive content from GZ and some suits. What are you referring to specifically?
It's pretty clear that Camp Omega was intended to be an area returned to for gameplay purposes as a bonus of sorts, either as a flashback area or for the hell of it. But that got the cut too and now all we're getting is it as a map in MGO3 as we already know.
All this talk makes me pretty sad. I do genuinely hope this game's ending is revered in time just like MGS2's. Kojima's [sp]bait and switch[/sp] worked quite well if we want to analyse it, I like the idea that [sp]BB isn't BB, but "we" are. As if it's not really him, but his actions, his legend that lives on. Hell, you're never really talked about as a person in MGSV, even when you think you're still BB. Quiet "falls in love with the legend" and as Ocelot sends you off to Afghan he says "let the legend come to life". Venom says fuck all and is assertive enough to just be completely controlled by the whims of those around him, he's rail roaded through the story with little to no control over where it takes him. Sound familiar?[/sp]
[QUOTE=boobs;48733525]After playing literally every single Metal Gear game all the way through, I can safely say this is not a Metal Gear game. It has a Metal Gear in it, and all the characters we know, but they are all tossed in without a single purpose or hint of their original character.[/QUOTE]
Hell, Kojima wanted to ditch the series' wide alert sound, cardboard boxes, and other things. Even the infamous Johnny only gets a passive reference with a tape of toilet sounds as a reused sound asset from Ground Zeroes. The complete gameplay system revisal that goes even further beyond Peace Walker that plays more like a refined contemporary to modern open-world games, the inconsistent and far more bleak tone that wants to go for a darker set of things yet randomly goes straight back to Peace Walker's rated T for Teen tone at complete random, the gore and violence that's then supplemented by fultoning a pack of sheep into the sky or a fucking wormhole tear in space
If it weren't for the fact that Kojima caved in to fan demand, among other factors, The Phantom Pain probably wouldn't of even had the fun nods and other factors to the series, just story references to MGS3 and PW.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48736932]kojima has always had an issue with keeping a consistent tone in his games[/QUOTE]
Idk, I feel like his games have always had a certain darker, dystopian tone between those wackier 'oh so Japanese' stuff. It's likely hard to keep a consistent tone when you're meshing two very different concepts together like MGS does. Thematically, right from the get go MGS has had a lot about identity and parental/mentor responsibility in it, legacies and influences and such. It's pretty consistent if you ask me, the twist at the end of MGSV fits right into the identity and legacy themes.
I suppose the only deviation was 3, but even then the Boss's influence on BB (and by proxy the entire world of MGS) is overt and the hints of a darker dystopian world lurking outside the jungle are certainly there. Especially once you're looking back knowing the ending.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48735902]hell
mgs5 end spoilers
[sp]bb is ok with turning his best soldier into a body double solely to serve a shield for him while he recruits soldiers (including children) while also building a rogue military power much larger than msf and diamond dogs combined
that's pretty fucked up[/sp][/QUOTE]
but the point is none of that's actually in the game
that's all the stuff that [sp]the real big boss is doing somewhere else.[/sp]
[editline]22nd September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48736932]kojima has always had an issue with keeping a consistent tone in his games[/QUOTE]
not really
even in the more serious scenes the tone was preserved through the sheer cheesy campiness of the dialogue
[sp]Venom is the more righteous, more noble Big Boss, but he's no hero. He's shaped BB's legacy, the legacy of a villain, of a war profiteer, of a murderer and a sociopath. But I like that we weren't playing as BB, it allowed the story of a more heroic man, it allowed the player to feel more comfortable with our actions. If you want to go deeper then it could serve as commentary on how Kojima couldn't possibly live up the expectations 4 years of hype have given us for Big Boss's story, for the missing link we've been waiting for since MGS3. I think the game is unfinished, but as SBH points out the missing link and Big Boss's story are both there, just hidden.[/sp]
I wouldn't say that Kojima hasn't had a consistent tone, but rather, his crazy and fun moments have always stood out more in memory than his darker and serious moments. And naturally, when you're trying to talk about the deeper messages of Kojima's games with other people, they get lost in remarks about how a game that has you doing rather silly things in gameplay and cutscenes is supposed to be taken seriously.
Each game has a consistent overall tone, but at the same time, each game has some moments that differ from the overall tone in order to catch you off guard and make you think. Surprisingly, this strategy mostly works.
Look at MGS3. It's mostly presented as a campy and over the top spy thriller. It's cheesy, wacky, and pretty funny a lot of the times. But then, you reach the moment with The Boss, or the moment and message at the end of the game, and that shit hits you hard. Much harder than you were probably expecting it to, and probably harder than it would if the game was dark and serious the whole time.
Again, the overall tone is consistent, but there are deliberate moments meant to catch you off guard in some way in each of his games (at least I believe so, as I haven't ever played PW).
[QUOTE=Rossy167;48737444][sp]Venom is the more righteous, more noble Big Boss, but he's no hero. He's shaped BB's legacy, the legacy of a villain, of a war profiteer, of a murderer and a sociopath. But I like that we weren't playing as BB, it allowed the story of a more heroic man, it allowed the player to feel more comfortable with our actions. If you want to go deeper then it could serve as commentary on how Kojima couldn't possibly live up the expectations 4 years of hype have given us for Big Boss's story, for the missing link we've been waiting for since MGS3. I think the game is unfinished, but as SBH points out the missing link and Big Boss's story are both there, just hidden.[/sp][/QUOTE]
The main reason they introduced 'Venom Snake' was to tie up the plot hole at the end of MGS4 where Big Boss suddenly comes back from the dead.
Kojima didnt even want that scene to happen, and wanted Solid Snake to kill himself; but the production team and the higher-ups pushed back hard on that idea and essentially retconned that scene into the game.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48735902]hell
mgs5 end spoilers
[sp]bb is ok with turning his best soldier into a body double solely to serve a shield for him while he recruits soldiers (including children) while also building a rogue military power much larger than msf and diamond dogs combined
that's pretty fucked up[/sp][/QUOTE]
imho the biggest thing is when he starts saying [sp]big boss is a legendary concept above individual soldiers like himself and venom, basically giving in to the cult of personality that he spent the whole of poops and peace walker walking on the edge of just to rationalize what's basically another LET project. whether you think having him do it in the last ten minutes is acceptable or not he DID completely compromise his morals, and from there you can kinda imagine how he became as bankrupt as he is in mg2.[/sp]
obviously it would have been neater onscreen but i think if you had to make big boss a dirtbag in ten minutes with no dead kids that's pretty much how i would do it
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48736255][url]http://gamingbolt.com/metal-gear-solid-5-camp-omega-will-be-revisited-will-include-a-lot-of-secrets[/url]
while it said current plans its still a pretty big damn cut especially after everyone really looking forward to it[/QUOTE]Ah, fair enough. I hadn't even read this before. Could be, this was part of the scrapped concept of "Chapter 3: Peace." Regardless, I ultimately don't lament its' absence, nor do I lament the twist or the game at all. What I lament above all else is the absence of Mission 51 and how the revenge against Skull Face; as incredibly satisfying as it was, felt unearned, despite Kojima's reasoning for playing things out with him the way they did.
Spoilers for MGS4 and 5: [sp]The thing I agree with most is how the ending just didn't feel complete. Yes, there were lots of plot lines missing, but the only other Metal Gear I played before was MGS4 and the ending of that blew me away. Crawling through the microwave tunnel, the fist fight on to of the tower, the scene with Zero and BB were incredible. Replaying the 1 hour of extremely linear tutorial+prolog mission didn't have the same impact at all. I was looking at my phone for 90% of the cutscenes of that final mission because I already knew them.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Robber;48744241]Spoilers for MGS4 and 5: [sp]The thing I agree with most is how the ending just didn't feel complete. Yes, there were lots of plot lines missing, but the only other Metal Gear I played before was MGS4 and the ending of that blew me away. Crawling through the microwave tunnel, the fist fight on to of the tower, the scene with Zero and BB were incredible. Replaying the 1 hour of extremely linear tutorial+prolog mission didn't have the same impact at all. I was looking at my phone for 90% of the cutscenes of that final mission because I already knew them.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Yeah it was very rushed with cut content and quickly thrown together ending. There was supposed to be an entire chapter 3. It doesn't help that [sp]Half of story missions felt like filler, kill this random guy, extract that random guy, blow up this random tank...[/sp]
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