[QUOTE=butre;53056727]realistically if you've got a mouse problem just get a cat[/QUOTE]
As long as it's an inside cat, sure (assuming you can incentivize them catching it and can/want to deal with the mousie massacre that follows); if it's an outside cat, then you have a problem because cats hunt a lot of birds too, which makes unleashing it on the local population a bit irresponsible.
[QUOTE=Wormy;53056772]I'm pretty sure mice are not that stupid either when it comes to cats in the area. If a cat is near, they'll know and avoid that area.[/QUOTE]
Depends on a mouse-by-mouse/cat-by-cat basis. I know my previous bumblebutt had it out for pigeons, but was very receptive to and friendly with mice. :v: You also have strange cases like this:
[video=youtube;PAs_-zXvpYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAs_-zXvpYo[/video]
Sometimes animals don't work like they're meant to. :cat:
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;53056725]It's hard to reconcile "they're reasonably humane" and "sometimes they cause the animal to [I]chew it's arms off[/I]"[/QUOTE]
Well to be fair he says it happens to a much lesser extent than with traditional snap traps. Maybe you should read his post again?
I don't think a higher incidence of limb gnawing with usually more humane traps necessarily justifies using a method where the intended method of death is [I]always[/I] inhumane, though - even if incidental limb gnawing and surviving is worse in isolation.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;53056802]Depends on a mouse-by-mouse/cat-by-cat basis. I know my previous bumblebutt had it out for pigeons, but was very receptive to and friendly with mice. :v: You also have strange cases like this:
[video=youtube;PAs_-zXvpYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAs_-zXvpYo[/video]
Sometimes animals don't work like they're meant to. :cat:[/QUOTE]
Rats aren't mice tho.
It's not obvious but they're actually wildly different in things like intelligence. Rats actually make great, very trainable pets.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;53056854]Rats aren't mice tho.
It's not obvious but they're actually wildly different in things like intelligence. Rats actually make great, very trainable pets.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, granted I have fairly little experience with them, but from what I've seen lab rat are nice and friendly while mice are assholes that will try to bite you for no reason.
[QUOTE=butre;53056719]yeah they work sometimes sure, and some mouse traps are always gonna be better than others. you still haven't addressed the fact that they're horrendously inhumane.[/QUOTE]
No, they dont work "sometimes", they work 99% of the time. They are leaps and bounds more effective than snap traps. And glueboards are always going to be better than snap traps.
I cant really address the inhumane issue. Like I've said earlier, a mouse usually wont last more than 5 or 10 hours on a glueboard before they stress out and die. Not really any pain involved, they just exhaust themselves. I have no qualms with that. My job is to kill shit, not determine what is [i]too[/i] inhumane to use. The end result is always the same. Youre taking the life of an animal that just wants to survive. We just find them inconvenient because they do billions of dollars worth of damage every year.
[editline]16th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=butre;53056727]realistically if you've got a mouse problem just get a cat[/QUOTE]
Yea let me go talk to my food plant with strict organic regulations about getting a cat.
You ever actually see a cat kill something? Theyll maim it and play with it for minutes before they actually kill it. Thats a whole lot better than a glueboard.
Hate to say it but I'd rather it be glue traps than poison. With poison it is always inhumane, and it could lead to natural predators getting poisoned themselves.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;53056725]It's hard to reconcile "they're reasonably humane" and "sometimes they cause the animal to [I]chew it's arms off[/I]"[/QUOTE]
I've seen more arms get gnawed off in a repeater trap without a glueboard in it than with a glueboard. Same with snap traps.
Used to have a picture of a mouse that had slipped out from under the bar on a snap trap and crawled about 5 feet before he died from his broken back.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;53056744]if it's an outside cat, then you have a problem because cats hunt a lot of birds too, which makes unleashing it on the local population a bit irresponsible.[/QUOTE]
Outside cats are a menace to bird and small mammal/reptile populations, and the people who brag about how cool their outside cat is are fucking idiots. TBQH I have no qualms with people capping outside/feral cats, they're a nuisance
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53056986]Hate to say it but I'd rather it be glue traps than poison. With poison it is always inhumane, and it could lead to natural predators getting poisoned themselves.[/QUOTE]
Secondary kill on poison isnt really an issue anymore. All modern rodenticides are just blood thinners. A cat or dog isn't going to be able to ingest enough from eating a dead rodent to hurt them at all.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53057002]Secondary kill on poison isnt really an issue anymore. All modern rodenticides are just blood thinners. A cat or dog isn't going to be able to ingest enough from eating a dead rodent to hurt them at all.[/QUOTE]
Oh it isn’t? Huh, news to me.
Still wouldn’t feel comfortable using it where pets/kids are involved anyway but that’s just me
The best rodent traps are the buckets with the spinning log or an encapsulated snap trap that guides the mouse/rat so its a clean kill.
Glue and poison, fuck that inhumane stuff.
Edit: While drowning in a bucket is not humane, it doesn't have side effects such as surviving (but badly injured) and/or leeching poison into the local environment.
[QUOTE=Sprelle;53057100]The best rodent traps are the buckets with the spinning log or an encapsulated snap trap that guides the mouse/rat so its a clean kill.
Glue and poison, fuck that inhumane stuff.
Edit: While drowning in a bucket is not humane, it doesn't have side effects such as surviving (but badly injured) and/or leeching poison into the local environment.[/QUOTE]
A mouse straining itself to death on a glueboard is the same difference as it straining itself to death trying to keep afloat before eventually drowning.
And you're not really damaging the environment at all by exposing it to marginal amounts of blood thinners.
glueboards wouldn't be all that inhumane if you killed them shortly after they're caught.
but leaving them for 24 hours to die by starvation/exhaustion is pretty cruel.
also i wouldn't say they're not effective because seeing as they're not really a "lure-trap" mechanism, rather a "stinger" trap, I'd think they're actually pretty good. Just needs a better design.
If I caught a mouse on a glueboard, I wouldn't go near it unless it's totally dead. Bitten by a mouse is not really my thing.
[editline]16th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sprelle;53057100]The best rodent traps are the buckets with the spinning log or an encapsulated snap trap that guides the mouse/rat so its a clean kill.
Glue and poison, fuck that inhumane stuff.
Edit: While drowning in a bucket is not humane, it doesn't have side effects such as surviving (but badly injured) and/or leeching poison into the local environment.[/QUOTE]
but you talk about this "guiding into trap" but this OP dude has a barn full of rodents and catches only 3 in 12 hours.
Not very effective tbh.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SIlYiiCGLI[/media]
This is the most effective mousetrap I've used.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;53054044]Catching rodents would be a lot tougher without glue boards.[/quote]
A country like New Zealand felt the need to ban glue board - and they have one of the most ecologically sensitive places on earth where rodents can be a problem. They and a whole host of other countries (parts of Australia and Europe, to list a few) also do not really have a problem controlling rodents without them. Ireland, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Iceland are also other countries that have either outlawed glue traps, or require ministerial approval for their use (let's face it, most people aren't going to go through that amount of red tape just to use a glue trap). I'm sure there are other countries, too, including states like British Columbia in Canada where they are restricted (but not other parts of Canada). Most of those countries, if you've noticed, have some of the most progressive animal cruelty laws in the world. Hell, the topic of glue traps was brought up in an EU parliamentary sitting as part of their discussion to standardise animal welfare across the EU:
[video=youtube;ggnM-VeR_e4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggnM-VeR_e4[/video]
[quote]It's not the most humane death but it's not as cruel as the humane society makes it out to be.[/quote]
What about the RSPCA? The ASPCA? The HSI? Most wildlife rehabs? The American, Canadian and British Veterinary Associations? The British Pest Control Association? Various pest control companies that do not use glue traps? The Ministry for Primary Industries (New Zealand)?
They have all made the case that either a) they should be outlawed, b) the general public should not be allowed to use glue traps or c) due to the cruelty involved, they should only be used as a last resort if all other methods fail, whereby the trap is frequently monitored and the animal is humanely dispatched. The BPCA even have their own guidelines for this... does your company have anything like this? At all? Or do they simply do not care about the level of cruelty they put animals through when it can be avoided?
Note that I didn't include PETA in this list; because unlike the other organisations, they are not to be taken seriously a lot of the time.
[quote]Like I've said earlier, a mouse usually wont last more than 5 or 10 hours on a glueboard before they stress out and die. Not really any pain involved, they just exhaust themselves.[/quote]
Bullshit. In this [URL="http://www.hsi.org/assets/pdfs/hsi-glue-trap-report.pdf"][U]study[/U][/URL] most of them survive after 24 hours on the trap:
[quote][I]One laboratory experiment looking into how long it took rodents caught on glue traps to die found that 85 per cent of mice were still alive a day later.[/I][/quote]
It also notes the physical injuries these animals can get. As you can see from the paper, the RSPCA is pushing for a ban of these devices in the UK and their pest control association agrees that it should not be for amateur use. To say there is no pain involved is either or lie or you're simply being disingenuous. Glue traps are torture devices, and IMO should be prohibited. Know what the most fucked up thing is? Some of the instructions on these damn things direct people to throw the animal, trap and all, into the garbage, [I]even while it's still alive[/I]. Aside from being how absurd and evil it is to throw an injured suffering animal into the trash, for some reason it is allowed in some first world countries despite the fact that it would [i]fundamentally[/i] break the most basic of animal cruelty laws.
[quote]My experience isn't even anecdotal[/quote]
It most certainly is.
[quote]My job is to kill shit, not determine what is too inhumane to use. The end result is always the same.[/quote]
Making a determination what is humane or a inhumane way to kill an animal should be part of your damn job, if not that than as a human being. I would assume you'd be trained with how to humanely euthanise pest animals if you trap them and find them alive, as an example. Please don't give that ridiculous "dead is dead" logic, otherwise that'd mean it'd be okay for a vet to put down a terminally ill dog by fire rather than put the animal to sleep peacefully with drugs because it'd save them money. I could list many more examples of people doing severely cruel shit because it's more convenient for them or saves them a bit of cash. When you're killing animals, there should always be consideration for their pain and suffering. If there isn't, then you shouldn't be killing animals.
[quote]A mouse straining itself to death on a glueboard is the same difference as it straining itself to death trying to keep afloat before eventually drowning.[/quote]
No, it isn't. A mouse straining itself to death does more than "straining", it causes itself severe physical injuries trying to get off. That is on top of the animal being extremely frightened and caked in its own shit and piss. I'm sorry, I can't really take you seriously if you think that's a better death than having your neck broken (even if it's only a couple of seconds of pain). You try to rationalise this level of cruelty by pointing out that snap traps can misfire but no trap is perfect, and most of the time a snap trap does its intended job. Whereas on a glue trap, [i]most of the time[/i] the animal is suffering for a long period of time. Even 10 hours stuck on a glue board is too long. Whatever happened to frequent inspections and humane dispatch? Just another reason why the general public shouldn't be allowed to use a trap like that, because a lot of people are either indifferent about the animal's suffering or are too squeamish to finish the job.
To top it off, the British Veterinary Association [URL="https://www.bva.co.uk/uploadedFiles/Content/News,_campaigns_and_policies/Policies/Ethics_and_welfare/rodent-glue-traps-policy.pdf"][U]disagree[/U][/URL] with your assessment, so does the [URL="https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Documents/euthanasia.pdf"][U]American[/U][/URL] equivalent.
[quote]Secondary kill on poison isnt really an issue anymore. All modern rodenticides are just blood thinners. A cat or dog isn't going to be able to ingest enough from eating a dead rodent to hurt them at all.[/quote]
You can tell to the [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-06/boobook-owls-victims-of-rat-poison-study-finds/9227944"][U]Boobook owls[/U][/URL]. Or to this [URL="http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/birds-poison-1.4468165"]owl[/URL]. Or this [URL="https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/51333/title/California-s-Owls-Being-Exposed-to-Rat-Poison/"]one[/URL]. Any more propaganda you want to peddle?
[quote]They are leaps and bounds more effective than snap traps. And glueboards are always going to be better than snap traps.[/quote]
That's not true according to this [URL="https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/28de/991a3e6c6f4e2c14e6a53cf024ea0c22be61.pdf"]study[/URL]. You are making that statement as if it's some kind of absolute truth. Quite frankly, the main reason I think you or your company use them is because a) they're incredibly cheap and b) you're not a company that cares about ethical pest control. Effectiveness-smecthiveness... they're not only beyond cruel, but the CDC [URL="https://www.cdc.gov/rodents/prevent_infestations/trap_up.html"][U]don't[/U][/URL] even recommend using them. Your only argument for using them is because they are anecdotally effective for [i]you[/i]. What about humaneness, indiscrimination, hygiene? The common joe can reuse a snap trap, whereas they'd usually have to throw out a glue trap after first use.
I know of many pesties who are opposed to glue traps out of principle, and will not use them. [URL="ww.pestcontrolportal.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=935"][U]Here's[/U][/URL] an example of this where a few of them talk about it. [URL="ww.pestcontrolportal.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=929&whichpage=2"][U]Here[/U][/URL] too:
[quote]Don’t use glue boards myself. If they were removed from our weaponry I would not complain at all. Can’t stand the things, and I hate even more the fact that they are sold to the public. I know many pesties who think the same way.[/quote]
[quote]Delighted to say the disgusting things are illegal in Eire already
Over here we're only allowed to use traps which are designed to render unconcious or kill outright. Then some bright spark noticed that that's not exactly the case with these barberous throw backs to the dark ages.
Made my day when I wandered into the Creamery and noticed the box had vanished from the counter top over night!
If they're so indispensable as to 'have to' be used, perhaps the people offering such piss poor excuses for so doing will soon have to show they were justified in using them by facing the fact that, without them, they'll just not be able to control rodents. Then they can get out of the industry they by definition can no longer operate in and become window cleaners.
If such people carry on without them? There's proof that they didn't 'need' to use them in the first place.
'Useful Tool.' 'Essential in certain circumstances'. B0llocks! It's all about shaving off time and saving some money.
Fifty years after they stopped the Gin Trap being used on rabbits and foxes, how come these things even still exist? Oh yeah; Because it's " Only " rats and mice and they're " Filthy, disgusting creatures. " And these are a filthy, disgusting manner of capture. People who use them ....? What do ye Think I think of them?[/quote]
What is a relief to see is that there is actual debate within the industry about these traps (at least in the UK and Aus), and it's a topic that's been going on for years. It's only been recently that people are starting to be aware of how barbarically cruel these glue traps actually are (type "glue trap" on Facebook and the VAST majority of results are people complaining about them, wildlife rebabbers warning about their intrinsic cruelty) - and why I don't consider you a final authority on this topic just because you claim to be an exterminator (mainly because you stated these animals not feeling much pain on these glue traps, which is BS). All the links I've provided point to the contrary. For someone who is an exterminator, you are horribly misinformed. But I guess that shouldn't surprise me if you don't really give a damn if a mouse or rat suffers horrendously on a glue trap.
[editline]19th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=snookypookums;53054208]They wouldn't be a mass-market (and popular) item if consumers didn't find it effective enough to warrant making more.[/quote]
Not popular everywhere, though (for example, most people in Aus wouldn't have even heard of them because most stores don't stock them). And it just shows to show the amount of indifferent (or possibly) sadistic people out there who only care about what's cheapest, regardless of how barbaric or torturous the device is. Then you have the people who are completely ignorant about what a glue trap really does, and the moment they catch the animal, they immediately regret their decision and feel really bad (to the point of taking the trapped animal to a vet or wildlife rehabber).
Any device that intrinsically tortures the animal on it by design is not something that should be legal.
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